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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gazo on April 24, 2007, at 10:06:42
we talked a bit yesterday about my inability to call him.. i told him that i felt like i'd be wasting his time or abusing the resource by even using it at all. Obviously he said that wasn't the case and he believed very strongly i would never abuse it. i honestly don't know how to get over the fear of calling him. Sunday i actually went to a pay phone and called his number.. i didn't want to call from home in case he had caller ID. i figured he wouldn't be there but i was afraid he might have stopped by his office or something... i wanted to see what happened. It rang three or four times before it went into voicemail.. so i don't know, does he normally pick up if he isn't in session? Does it always drop into voicemail? It was comforting just to hear his voice.. which is scary to me, because it means that his voice actually **means** something to me. i am terrified of needing him.
this is the dumbest i have felt in a long time. i mean, what's he gonna do? he's not going to laugh at me or hurt me over the phone. This is insane.
but he said we needed to deal with this because had i been able to call last week i could have prevented some of the bad things from happening. Back in December i saw my pdoc for an emerg appt... and i was frantic. He said one simple thing which totally calmed me, he said "you don't have to do anything right now." Meaning about the situation i was in.. i didn't have to make any big decisions right then. That is all i would need from my T now. Just something simple to break the spiral.
He said it was far better i call than not.. he said if he felt i was over-using it he would tell me... but he'd rather i called.
he said he knew i had big big big trust issues (did i mention big?). He knows i write, and i bring him something every week.. so he wants me to try and write about what is happening when i get into those bad spaces and begin to spiral. Yeah, good luck with that dude. He said it's up to me to give it to him or not.. but the discussion would start with how i felt about giving it to him, ie the trust in him.
i'd appreciate any feedback on how to build the trust... how to get to a point that i could call him.. what did you guys do to get there? how do you even say on the phone what is happening or why you are calling? Are you able to say you're frantic? or are you like me and as soon as you talk to someone you act all fine?
Posted by Gee on April 24, 2007, at 13:11:47
In reply to calling a T... and other ramblings, posted by gazo on April 24, 2007, at 10:06:42
Gazo, I'm so sorry this is so hard for you.
I'm so very much like you. As soon as I talk to someone I automatically go to the "I'm okay". I called my t one time, left a message, and she called back and was like "I got your message, you sounded really upset, what's up?" I went on to saying I was okay, and she offered to come pick me up, but I convinced her I was fine. Which in reality really wasn't the truth.
I find with my t that could be a lot more real and honnest in e-mail. Would that be an option?
Sometimes with the phone, I find it easier to leave a message and explain what's going on, on the message, and then that when when they call back, they already know, and you can just say "so, what do you think?"
As for trusting him, give him time. Trust isn't easy to build especially when you've been hurt in the past
Posted by gazo on April 24, 2007, at 15:08:27
In reply to Re: calling a T... and other ramblings, posted by Gee on April 24, 2007, at 13:11:47
yeah... i think email or voicemail would be waaay easier. i haven't asked about email.. i do write him a letter every week now though. Maybe he'd be worried i'd get verbal diarrhoea?
i have to ask him if it drops into voicemail automatically or not.. that would help i think. i think maybe i could squeak out something if he wasn't there live listening... then when he called back i'd have said it already.
yeah.. i'm worried i'll do the same thing. "oh no, i'm fine." It's extremely hard to say that no, you're not fine and life blows... isn't it?
speaking of which.. i am not doing so bad today. i am just trying to establish what to do for the really bad days. From chat you have a better idea of what is freaking me out. It's honestly not hard every day... just sucky generally and then really sucky some days.
i like you a lot you know. i am going to miss you when you go.. will you have any internet at all? i'd love to keep in touch somehow. if you're ever coming east i'd love to meet you. i wish i could go to one of those babblefest things.. that would be cool. maybe we could organize a canadian one?
Posted by Racer on April 24, 2007, at 17:13:46
In reply to Re: calling a T... and other ramblings » Gee, posted by gazo on April 24, 2007, at 15:08:27
lol Calling my T?
I have had at least half a dozen sessions where we talked about NOTHING except whether it was OK for me to call her. Now, I call for rescheduling, or to cancel, but rarely for anything else. The sessions go something like this:
Me: When is it OK for me to call?
T: It's always OK for you to call.
Me: but...
And it degenerates from there, though all the "but I'm supposed to be able to do this myself, I shouldn't get dependant on you, etc" And the last thing is always, "No, I said it was OK for you to call, and I think it would be a very GOOD sign for you to do so." So, every so often, I will call -- to prove I can.
And then we have another of those sessions talking about whether or not it was OK for me to call...
I guess it's because I've only been working with her for 22 months now. Eventually I'll get over it...
(Y'all can see me rolling my eyes, right? I'm laughing at myself, for being so silly. How difficult is it to understand the words she says? Apparently quite difficult, for me.)
I've found voicemail to be wonderful -- allows me to leave a specific message, without discussion, and that's good for me. Then, if/when she calls back, we can discuss it. But if she picks up the phone, which she has once or twice, I can't get whatever it is out, so we can't discuss it. Use the tools you got, and one of those is voicemail.
I don't know that any of this is helpful to you, but I hope it helps to know you're not alone. I actually checked into a hospital for nearly a week instead of calling her! She wasn't real happy about that, and that's why we started talking about why I can't/won't call her.
Good luck.
Posted by gazo on April 24, 2007, at 17:46:27
In reply to Re: calling a T... and other ramblings » gazo, posted by Racer on April 24, 2007, at 17:13:46
no, it helps a lot.. it makes me feel less freaky.. i used to think i was pretty smart until i discovered i can't understand two letters "ok."
is this typical of all therapy clients? or is specific to people with common elements in their history maybe? i mean.. i wonder if someone going in for a phobia issue feels this way?
we had to start talking about it because i become self destructive in a variety of ways.. :o( i could have prevented a lot of distress and feelings of failure had i just picked up the stupid phone. i am so sorry you share my phonophobia.. and that you ended up in the hospital because of it.. it's kinda weird in a way because one of the reasons i am afraid to call is that i am so afraid either my T or my pdoc will force me into the hospital.
this is hard.
Posted by Racer on April 24, 2007, at 19:09:15
In reply to Re: calling a T... and other ramblings » Racer, posted by gazo on April 24, 2007, at 17:46:27
>
>
> is this typical of all therapy clients? or is specific to people with common elements in their history maybe?I don't know. My history includes some abusive treatment by other Ts. It's a long story, and it's ugly -- at least to me -- but if I get some time to tell you about it later, I will. (I'm late right now...)
So, although I don't know how common this is, I do know that you're not alone. In fact, the two of us have some mighty good company.
Posted by gazo on April 24, 2007, at 22:00:29
In reply to Re: calling a T... and other ramblings » gazo, posted by Racer on April 24, 2007, at 19:09:15
hmmm that is even more interesting.. i have had some bad experiences too.. even though technically i wasn't in therapy.. oh boy, is that a long convoluted story.
Posted by Gee on April 24, 2007, at 22:07:52
In reply to Re: calling a T... and other ramblings » Gee, posted by gazo on April 24, 2007, at 15:08:27
It's really hard to say "No, I'm not okay".
I'm glad you're a bit better today!!!!
I will have email when I go, bmail will prolly be the best way to keep in touch.
Sorry this is so short... my head is out of it right now (wow you would not believe how long it took me to realize that I wanted and hadn't already written the word it). Guess my brain's on summer vacation!
Posted by gazo on April 24, 2007, at 22:17:45
In reply to Re: calling a T... and other ramblings, posted by Gee on April 24, 2007, at 22:07:52
Posted by Daisym on April 25, 2007, at 2:01:31
In reply to calling a T... and other ramblings, posted by gazo on April 24, 2007, at 10:06:42
Racer is right - you certainly aren't alone with this issue. If you search the archives I bet you find several threads on calling or not calling.
My therapist would tell me all the time it was OK to call if I needed him. I felt like I was bothering him, even after we agreed that he would charge for phone calls of substance (length). Even after he told me that it helps HIM if I call instead of falling apart completely.
Eventually he said, "can we try an experiment? If you need me, you call me. Just during this time of our experiment. If it isn't working, we will call off the experiment." He even left me a message or two that ended with, "just call me, remember, experiment in process." yeah, yeah. :)
We've worked out a system of messages too. I call with check ins or updates and say, "you don't need to call me back." And he doesn't. Or I'll call and say, "I just need to touch base." He calls me back. Occasionally I'll say, "not my best day but you don't have to call me back if you are busy or something." If I turn my cell off, he leaves me a message. If he gets me, I get a lecture about being clear about what I need.
It's been almost 4 years -- this wasn't easy or immediate. So hang in there. You will figure each other out.
Posted by gazo on April 25, 2007, at 9:08:28
In reply to Re: calling a T... and other ramblings » gazo, posted by Daisym on April 25, 2007, at 2:01:31
i smiled when i read your post... not because it is funny.. but amusing in a recognition sort of way. It's sad/funny to see myself in what you're saying. Seeing what you say gives me some hope that i can call someday.. someday.
He gave me an exercise to do (but he asked if a *little* CBT was ok..hahaha.. i had stressed how i felt about CBT). i write (no $h1t) so he asked me to try and write about what the thoughts are when i begin down the road that leads to self destructive behaviours, whatever they might be.. the idea is not about the behaviours just yet, the real exercise is whether i can give him what i wrote, then we can talk about how i feel about being able to or not able to.
so i tried.. and freaked out. :o( i'm such a dork.
writing about what i was thinking intensified it. Add in the possibility of him reading it... well, i was on my way to he11 in a hand basket and fast.
there is another problem. i can't even think about any SI issues.. it's not something i do often but it's impossible right now. Not an option. i have medical testing coming up and they would see. i don't **want** to use that as an outlet.. but having it forcibly taken away freaks me out too.
so in the wee hours of the morning.. 3 or 4am.. i was in full panic mode.
i wrote him a short note... without giving details above.. trying to tell him what was happening... it's nuts. Broken sentences, sometimes just one word sentences, rambling.
i am thinking of dropping it off any way, even though i feel ok now. Just so he can see what happened.
and i am ok today. no worries ok? It's a beautiful day. Clear, sunny... maybe warm?
i am applying for a job.. it's a crappy job but it's a job right? i can always keep looking for a better job.
thanks for bothering to read this far.
much love and peace
Posted by gazo on April 25, 2007, at 17:12:46
In reply to calling a T... and other ramblings, posted by gazo on April 24, 2007, at 10:06:42
i wasn't even able to drop off the second stupid letter. There is no point to this. i cannot trust him, even though i want to. i think i should stop, maybe try again someday. i feel bad for the guy, he has tried so hard to be nice to me.
i don't even have the ovaries to tell him live on the phone. i am just going to have to leave him a voicemail.
do you think he'll be mad?
Posted by Racer on April 26, 2007, at 1:40:19
In reply to this is beyond ridiculous ):o(, posted by gazo on April 25, 2007, at 17:12:46
Nah, nothing ridiculous. You're in pain, you don't yet trust him, and you're not sure how to learn to trust him. I really hope you don't quit right now. Could you look at this as an exercise in learning to do something that doesn't feel right? Or learning little bits of trust?
I'm tired, but I really think you desserve to feel better, and to feel supported in face time, so I hope you stick with it a little longer. I'll make a deal with you: if you see him one more time, I'll tell you about my telephoning-the-T issues?
Good luck, whatever you choose to do.
Posted by gazo on April 26, 2007, at 8:41:31
In reply to No, nothing ridiculous there. Sorry » gazo, posted by Racer on April 26, 2007, at 1:40:19
haha.. racer, you're too sweet and funny. kinda like gummy bears. :oP
i was ready to post an apology this morning.. for being so childish about this whole thing. i acted out for some dumb reason.
you have a deal.. except i plan not to quit. i am going to tell him i was going to.. i want him to tell me i need to stay. i know that is dumb too, but i also have issues with feeling like i am just exaggerating my problems.. like i am just wasting someone's time. i spent 2 yrs with my pdoc.. all the while thinking i had "convinced" him i was BP and things weren't really so bad and i was wasting his time, blah blah blah. He was shocked and amused when i finally told him that. He started flipping through his notes and reading back things i had said or done, giving me ample evidence i had been crazy as a loon... and that he, with his MD in psychiatry, wasn't just deciding i was BP based on what i told him.. he watched me. Imagine. The year after that i gave up meds and everything and decided once again that i wasn't BP, he had made a mistake and i was just exaggerating. HA! i spent three yrs living on the river in egypt.. you know, denial? oh boy. i found out the hard way how little i had been exaggerating. i crawled back... tail between legs, whimper whimper.
i really don't want to go through that with this guy.. but i can't seem to help it. He says or does something, i mis-read and add my own messed up interpretation, i realise it and feel stupid, i freak out and decide i'm an idiot and should quit now before it would hurt too much. What am i on? round three or four of this stupid cycle already?
feel free to hit the bell and remind me what round i am in next time. yes, i am THAT predictable... apparently.
the writing thing was two-fold. it was about trying to see what the thoughts were..vanilla CBT.. but it was more about what happens when i try to share them with him. i hadn't anticipated he'd try to do that.. or how it would affect me.
i can write, i do it every day.. hence the verbal diarhoea here (that plus i have no job or life). Even writin about thinking isn't so bad... but writing about the thoughts when things start to spiral just flipped me out.. then thinking about giving that to him? well that fried my poor little circuits altogether.
thanks racer... i feel sheepish about this... baaaaah. but thanks for taking the time to care.
now, fess up on the calling your T
Posted by Racer on April 26, 2007, at 13:26:45
In reply to Re: No, nothing ridiculous there. Sorry » Racer, posted by gazo on April 26, 2007, at 8:41:31
I have to get ready to go out, because I'm getting together to shop for shoes with DaisyM and ScratchPad today. (Yeah, I know -- "show off!")
I owe you a story. I'll write it later. Depending on how I feel, I may choose to post part and babblemail the rest -- gotta see how brave I feel...
Type atcha later.
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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