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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 37 to 61 of 61. Go back in thread:
Posted by Craig on February 5, 2007, at 4:20:19
In reply to Re: Is it too painful to talk about still? Yes :( » zenhussy, posted by toojane on February 3, 2007, at 21:33:11
You’ve just said it all.
============================
> That old adage "time heals all wounds" is a load of cr*p, isn't it?
Posted by toojane on February 5, 2007, at 8:05:09
In reply to Re: Hospitalization » vwoolf, posted by Craig on February 5, 2007, at 3:39:42
> I’m having a very hard time with this. I want to tell people what it was like, but I can’t find the words. It’s like trying to scream but no sound comes out.
Have you ever told anyone in your real life what it was like? I haven't (except my therapist). But then again, no one asks.Do you feel like people want to hear about it? I don't. And there's so much shame around having been treated that way. The fear that I MUST have done something to deserve it. I didn't, though. No one should ever ever be treated that way. Not even a dog.
Posted by toojane on February 5, 2007, at 8:30:08
In reply to Re: Hospitalization » toojane, posted by Craig on February 5, 2007, at 3:53:09
> The power that psychiatrists and their minions hold is unbelievable.
Before I was hospitalized I had no idea. Not a clue. Since then, I've read a lot about the history of psychiatric treatment and it's frightening how that power has been abused throughout the years. I don't think the general public realizes. Or cares terribly much.
I think, morally, if society is going to grant psychiatrists that kind of power, it has a duty to ensure that power will not be misused.
>“Patient rights” is a crock of sh*t.It is very complicated because you are locked up in a space with someone who is abusing you, with no way to get away, and even if you gather the courage to tell, who do you tell and what happens to you after you tell because you are a mental patient so they're probably not going to believe you and in the end you are still trapped there and completely at their mercy.
Posted by toojane on February 5, 2007, at 8:57:21
In reply to Re: Hospitalization » toojane, posted by Craig on February 5, 2007, at 4:12:30
> Do you mean a "One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest" kind of experience? Because I know what that’s like. Nurse Ratched was nonfictional to me.
I saw that movie a long time ago. Hmmm. No, not quite like that. There wasn't one specific nurse with that much power that I was aware of. And the main character in that movie (was it Murphy?) deliberately went out of his way to antagonize the nurse and set up power struggles with her, didn't he? I am a rather timid, quiet kind of person and tried to avoid the nurses as much as possible. I certainly never challenged their authority the way that Murphy did.
I could tell you lots of stories to try to describe more clearly what it was like but I'm uncomfortable posting them. And you already know, I think. Most of the other people who have posted spent a few days in hospital but you and I both spent much longer. It is the difference between visiting a foreign country on a short holiday and actually living there.
Posted by one woman cine on February 5, 2007, at 9:02:15
In reply to Re: Hospitalization » Fallsfall, posted by toojane on February 4, 2007, at 10:34:21
>
> I tend to find that if I say something bad happened to me, the general response often is "I'm sorry that happened to you but just because it did doesn't mean that it happens to everybody" which is very invalidating and a way of silencing me.
>I feel you misrepresented my words - again - I have no desire to silence you at all. I only wanted to discuss experience without a generality of "all doctors" - "all hospitals" - etc. etc.
I have fought against the generalities of "all people with borderline personality disorder, all hysterics" etc. - & sure they share some of the same traits but it denigrates the persons history and experience by lumpingeverything all together.
I am very sorry you feel the way you about what I wrote. But my intent and my words do not translate into trying silence you. At all.
There are dangers to generalizing and assuming. I never said abuses don't occur - but there is inherent dangers in not specifically discussing your own experience/perspective.
Posted by one woman cine on February 5, 2007, at 9:08:58
In reply to Re: Hospitalization » toojane, posted by one woman cine on February 5, 2007, at 9:02:15
I'm sorry you have had some bad experiences, but don't translate that to mean *everyone*.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20070119/msgs/729007.html
Sorry you have had bad experiences but if you are going to talk about you and your experience, than do so - but again, please don't generalize.http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20070119/msgs/729015.html
In no way did I silence you, you have made an unfair assumption.
Posted by toojane on February 5, 2007, at 9:19:56
In reply to Re: Hospitalization » toojane, posted by one woman cine on February 5, 2007, at 9:02:15
> I feel you misrepresented my words - again -One Woman Cine, nowhere in the sentence you quoted did I name you so how can you possibly accuse me of misrepresenting you?
>I have no desire to silence you at all.I experience your repeated admonitions to not generalize or assume as efforts to silence me. As I stated and spent a great deal of time clarifying on another thread, I think your accusations about me are unfounded and unwarranted.
>I only wanted to discuss experience without a generality of "all doctors" - "all hospitals" - etc. etc.
Again, if anyone is misrepresenting anyone, I think you are misrepresenting me. I have never said ALL doctors or ALL hospitals.
Posted by toojane on February 5, 2007, at 9:27:22
In reply to Re: Hospitalization » toojane, posted by one woman cine on February 5, 2007, at 9:02:15
> There are dangers to generalizing and assuming.I am interested in hearing your opinions and discussing issues with you. However, I am clearly asking you now to stop posting that I am making generalizations and assumptions. I feel I am being harrassed.
I believe that it is also against Babble policy. I do not know how to link to a post on another board but please see below --
Re: Please rephrase that » gabbi-2
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 2, 2007, at 2:25:27
In reply to Re: Please rephrase » gardenergirl, posted by gabbi-2 on January 30, 2007, at 10:49:32
> How about
>
> > the generalizations and assumptions made in that post made me angryThanks for working on this, but referring to what someone says as "generalizations and assumptions" still could lead them to feel accused. Could you give it another try?
Bob
Posted by one woman cine on February 5, 2007, at 9:31:28
In reply to Re: Hospitalization » one woman cine, posted by toojane on February 5, 2007, at 9:27:22
I do not want you to feel harassed - but I stated things in a prior thread with you are now referring to - I feel accused and harrassed as well - how can we discuss this without either one of us feeling bad?
Posted by muffled on February 5, 2007, at 9:33:55
In reply to Re: Hospitalization » one woman cine, posted by toojane on February 5, 2007, at 9:19:56
The hospital would be scarey with noone to advocate for you. Esp if you on meds and can't be clear.
Yes I agree, hosp has power.
Same can be said of police, same thing. You CANNOT mess w/them cuz ultimately THEY HAVE ALL POWER over you. There is nothing you can do. Same thing.
It is a fallen world.
LOTSA bad sh*t goes on.
SO MUCH.
Mebbe Toojane, you will help others some day, maybe you can make hosp. a safer place for someone?
That would be a good thing.
Then what you have suffered will be turned to good.
Hope you OK.
Noone desrves abuse like you had, NOONE for NO REASON. There is NO excuses. You were wronged.
I'm sorry.
Muffled
Posted by toojane on February 5, 2007, at 9:40:53
In reply to Re: Hospitalization, posted by one woman cine on February 5, 2007, at 9:31:28
> I do not want you to feel harassed - but I stated things in a prior thread with you are now referring to - I feel accused and harrassed as well - how can we discuss this without either one of us feeling bad?
You abandoned the discussion on the other thread. I would be open to continuing it there.However, on THIS thread, I and others are trying to discuss something that is terribly difficult and distressing. Many are finding the courage to express their experiences for the very first time. I do not want to this discussion to take place here. I find it invalidating when I say I was abused by a doctor for someone else to post back insisting that I not generalize and do not want others to feel unsafe to post here.
Posted by vwoolf on February 5, 2007, at 9:44:04
In reply to Re: Hospitalization » one woman cine, posted by toojane on February 5, 2007, at 9:40:53
I am finding this quarrel distressing. Please could it be taken somewhere else. It has no place on this thread.
Posted by toojane on February 5, 2007, at 11:18:53
In reply to Re: Hospitalization, posted by vwoolf on February 5, 2007, at 9:44:04
> I am finding this quarrel distressing. Please could it be taken somewhere else. It has no place on this thread.
Vwoolf, I am very sorry I upset. I hope you'll keep posting here on this thread but understand if you find it too distressing
Posted by toojane on February 5, 2007, at 11:34:28
In reply to Re: Hospitalization » toojane, posted by muffled on February 5, 2007, at 9:33:55
Hi Muffled,
> The hospital would be scarey with noone to advocate for you.
It was very scary
>Esp if you on meds and can't be clear.Being drugged against my will was terrifying. The effects of the drugs definitely made me unclear.
> Yes I agree, hosp has power.
> Same can be said of police, same thing. You CANNOT mess w/them cuz ultimately THEY HAVE ALL POWER over you. There is nothing you can do. Same thing.I haven't had any experience with the police but I can see how it could be similar.
But I seem to think that if I had an unpleasant encounter with the police, not at the time but afterwards, I could advocate for myself easily, bring charges, etc. If I were an average person. My word would have weight. But in a psychiatric hospital, simply by being there, my word is easily dismissed as the ravings of someone who is mentally ill.
I don't know. Thankfully, I haven't had any dealings with the police and therefore have no real understanding of the legal system or process.
> Mebbe Toojane, you will help others some day, maybe you can make hosp. a safer place for someone?
I'd like to do something. Maybe. In the future. There are psychiatric survivor movements. But I'd have to figure out some way first to grow a much thicker skin.
> Hope you OK.I'm not. But thank you so much for asking and hoping that for me.
Posted by vwoolf on February 5, 2007, at 14:41:14
In reply to Re: Hospitalization » muffled, posted by toojane on February 5, 2007, at 11:34:28
> I haven't had any experience with the police but I can see how it could be similar.
I have, for political reasons, and it's different but similar. Similar because they take away your power, different because you feel in control of your thoughts. In hospital you can't even trust those.
> > Mebbe Toojane, you will help others some day, maybe you can make hosp. a safer place for someone?
>
> I'd like to do something. Maybe. In the future. There are psychiatric survivor movements. But I'd have to figure out some way first to grow a much thicker skin.I'd also really like to do something, but I'm not sure what. But I'd like to do something important, that would make a real difference to survivors so that they don't have to go through what I went through.
I'd welcome suggestions....
Posted by toojane on February 5, 2007, at 15:11:50
In reply to Re: Hospitalization, posted by vwoolf on February 5, 2007, at 14:41:14
> I have, for political reasonsWow, Vwoolf. I'm impressed. I admire people who are so passionate about their beliefs that they are willing to tangle with the powers-that-be. It is one thing to sit in a living room complaining and quite another to physically protest and put yourself in harm's way.
> I'd also really like to do something, but I'm not sure what. But I'd like to do something important, that would make a real difference to survivors so that they don't have to go through what I went through.
Are you "out"? By that I mean do the people in your life, not just close family, know that you've been hospitalized? To do much, I think I'd need to be out and I'm just not comfortable doing that yet.
What can you do and remain anonymous?
Posted by muffled on February 5, 2007, at 17:55:33
In reply to Re: Hospitalization » vwoolf, posted by toojane on February 5, 2007, at 15:11:50
I dunno, but if it were me, I guess I'd check a local hosps for volunteer opportunities.
I know when I was in, that there was a volunteer that came in to do activities(which I refused to do cuz I wouldn't admit I was there?!?).
But anyways, mebbe from that point you could find info, or a nurse or someone that might have similiar interests?
Or mebbe thru united way or salvation army, you could do advocacy stuff?
When my Dad was 'in', he was struck by others there who had noone. He felt so sad for them.
In my city there is a very active scitzophrenia society, and they can be a very good source of info etc. You do not have to have scitzophrenia to deal with them, they will assist with other illness.
I think the thing is to be persistant until you find your place where you are able to help.
I think of the people alone is hosp, medicated and confused and alone. I think mebbe it will be tough, but good work for someone.
Helping others helps oneself heal too.
This is how I would begin my search.
Muffled
Posted by toojane on February 5, 2007, at 18:52:32
In reply to Re: Hospitalization/Helping others, posted by muffled on February 5, 2007, at 17:55:33
> Helping others helps oneself heal too.Muffled, those were all excellent suggestions.
I strongly believe in helping others and have tried to live my life that way. Professionally, I worked in a helping field (somewhat similar to what Daisy does, I think). I was very successful and found the work fulfilling.
But now, I am very ill and cannot work. My symptoms are extremely debilitating and prevent me from doing many things. Often, I can barely stumble through a day.
When I was well, I did a lot of volunteer work in my community. I have been volunteering with organizations since I was a teenager.
I was actually very busy helping others in my "sane" life. Wouldn't know it to look at me now. That is something else I really struggle with -- the before me and the now me. I feel useless now.
Posted by muffled on February 5, 2007, at 20:52:28
In reply to Re: Hospitalization/Helping others » muffled, posted by toojane on February 5, 2007, at 18:52:32
(( toojane ))- safe hugs
You are not useless, you help out here.
And you have been well.
So hopefully there can be wellness again.
If its mental illness you struggle with, and physical for that matter. Its hard. The lack of control of our destinies, our bodies, our minds.....so hard.
But so often somewhat fixable, so that we may do some more good some how.
There's an old lady I know, very very old, and she can't do much, but she prays for others, she prays and prays. i feel good to know when she prays for me.
And thank you toojane, for the many good works you have done already. Without people like you, so many good things would never happen.
Take care
Muffled
Posted by toojane on February 5, 2007, at 21:14:35
In reply to Re: Hospitalization/Helping others » toojane, posted by muffled on February 5, 2007, at 20:52:28
> If its mental illness you struggle with, and physical for that matter. Its hard. The lack of control of our destinies, our bodies, our minds.....so hard.I have very severe PTSD. I am not physically ill. I sometimes think it would be easier if I were physically sick. You can't "see" mental illness the same way, or measure it. I think there is more sympathy for people who are physically ill. Less blame.
> But so often somewhat fixableMy therapist says it is fixable (she doesn't use that word exactly, but she is hopeful this is temporary). I don't know. It just seems to be taking soooo long. I want it fixed yesterday.
> There's an old lady I know, very very old, and she can't do much, but she prays for others, she prays and prays. i feel good to know when she prays for me.How lovely to be held in someone else's prayers that way.
> And thank you toojane, for the many good works you have done already. Without people like you, so many good things would never happen.That is very kind of you to say, Muffled. My therapist says I am a human being, not a human doing -- but I still wish I could be making more of a contribution.
Posted by lcat10 on February 5, 2007, at 23:30:36
In reply to Hospitalization, posted by toojane on February 3, 2007, at 11:10:28
> I was wondering if anyone else on this board has spent time in a psychiatric hospital, either voluntarily or involuntarily?
>
> Did you find your experience helpful or harmful?In the early 80's I spent two and one-half years in a private psychiatric hospital-- for depression and trauma related stuff. I found the experience extremely helpful and allowed me 20 plus years of life without depression before developing depression again.
Posted by Craig on February 6, 2007, at 2:04:52
In reply to Re: Hospitalization » Craig, posted by toojane on February 5, 2007, at 8:05:09
I’ve never spoken about being hospitalized. No one has ever asked either. I was an adolescent, so of course my family and school knew I was in the hospital for a year. It’s the white elephant in the room that no one talks about. It was obvious no one wanted to hear about my experiences. I kept my feelings to myself. They wouldn’t have understood anyway. How could anyone who hasn’t lived through it comprehend what it was like?
===========================
> Have you ever told anyone in your real life what it was like? I haven't (except my therapist). But then again, no one asks.
>
> Do you feel like people want to hear about it? I don't.
Posted by Craig on February 6, 2007, at 2:11:29
In reply to Re: Hospitalization » one woman cine, posted by toojane on February 5, 2007, at 9:40:53
toojane, I understand your perspective and support you. I appreciate your efforts in these threads. You have much to offer and are obviously a very intelligent, articulate person. I am sorry you have experienced so much pain in your life. I don’t know why life isn’t fair.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 25, 2007, at 9:38:26
In reply to Re: Hospitalization » toojane, posted by Craig on February 5, 2007, at 4:12:30
> double double quotes didn't work for the DVD at Amazon
Weird, but it does work if it's not possessive: "One Flew Over the Cuckoo Nest". Sorry, sometimes the server has problems with punctuation.
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 25, 2007, at 10:29:01
In reply to Re: Hospitalization » one woman cine, posted by toojane on February 5, 2007, at 9:40:53
> I feel you misrepresented my words - again
>
> one woman cine> if anyone is misrepresenting anyone, I think you are misrepresenting me.
>
> toojanePlease don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're bad people.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
--
> how can we discuss this without either one of us feeling bad?
>
> one woman cine> I would be open to continuing [the discussion on the other thread].
>
> toojaneIt may be too late now, sorry again about not having been here before, but if you're both still open to discussion, maybe one way to resume there:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20070215/msgs/735997.html
with I-statements. Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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