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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by wishingstar on November 1, 2006, at 20:45:09
In reply to Re: day 3 » wishingstar, posted by TherapyGirl on November 1, 2006, at 20:22:20
ohh worddd indeed. It was quite the experience! Luckily it was a group and we all were able to vent and bond together over it.. thank goodness she doesnt do individual therapy. Randy said he'd never gotten any real complaints about her before... nothing more than "that workshop really wasnt for me". I think the dynamic of the group today made it escelate some.. but either way, she should be able to deal with that. Pffttt. You're right.. Randy is good. He really is.
Posted by muffled on November 1, 2006, at 21:36:34
In reply to Re: day 3 » TherapyGirl, posted by wishingstar on November 1, 2006, at 20:45:09
WS, thanks for posting bout the SI and bout your hosp program.
My thots are with you.
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by wishingstar on November 2, 2006, at 21:05:33
In reply to partial hosp day 1, posted by wishingstar on October 30, 2006, at 21:42:43
Today was terrible.
Partial was okay. The workshops were fine. I was just miserable. I didnt really get any time to talk in group, although I'm not sure I wanted it anyway. I felt very shut off. On the verge of tears all day. One workshop talked about over-reliance on therapy and brought up a lot of really painful feelings for me. I know I am incredibly reliant on therapy and knowing that just makes me feel so worthless. It makes me just want to give up.
I saw Ginny. It was okay too. I was excited to see her.. finally get to talk.. because part of the reason i cant talk in partial is that there are so many people there. But I guess her and Randy talked before I got there today and he told her what I've been doing (shutting down) so her expectation that I'd do that with her sort of created it. I had a hard time opening up. I didnt say a lot. I just cant.
Its just been a miserable day. Nothing matters. Randy can talk and talk about taking steps towards goals, but it just doesnt matter. I just cant connect with that.
Hopefully a happier report tomorrow.
Posted by MidnightBlue on November 2, 2006, at 21:27:02
In reply to day 4, posted by wishingstar on November 2, 2006, at 21:05:33
Hang in there! I hate to say it, but maybe you need another change in meds?
MB
Posted by TherapyGirl on November 2, 2006, at 21:42:03
In reply to day 4, posted by wishingstar on November 2, 2006, at 21:05:33
**One workshop talked about over-reliance on therapy and brought up a lot of really painful feelings for me.**
I'm sorry you had a bad day. And I'm puzzled about the purpose of the above workshop. Isn't everyone in partial "overly reliant" on therapy right now? You know, I think Randy is great from what you've said and I believe that he's been helpful, but I'm seeing some questionable workshops in the partial program, counting yesterday's "spiritual counselor." Who's in charge of creating the workshops?
I'm sorry you had a hard time opening up with Ginny as well. I think that will get better. I know when I'm in shut-down mode, it's very hard to switch back and forth -- it takes time.
((((((((WishingStar))))))
Posted by wishingstar on November 2, 2006, at 21:47:10
In reply to Re: day 4 » wishingstar, posted by MidnightBlue on November 2, 2006, at 21:27:02
I just had my meds switched about a week ago. So far, I've never been able to find a drug that works. This is the 6th one I've tried. Wellbutrin. We'll see but my hopes arent too high.
What are you supposed to do when even being in the hospital just doesnt help?
Posted by wishingstar on November 2, 2006, at 22:20:57
In reply to Re: day 4 » wishingstar, posted by TherapyGirl on November 2, 2006, at 21:42:03
The workshop wasnt supposed to be about overreliance on therapy. The woman who lead it is actually one of my favorites at the center. The workshop was on relationships, and she opened it up for discussion. One man brought up relationships with therapists and it went from there. She talked about forming support networks outside therapy, etc... it wasnt nearly as bad as I made it sound. I just focused in on the over-reliance part because it's a huge fear I have. Randy chooses the workshops.. but he's very concerned about the quality of them. He said the spiritual counselor woman wont be coming back after yesterdays "event".
Shut down mode is exactly it. How do you take steps to get out of it? I feel like I'll just be stuck here forever. What do you do when even the hospital doesnt help? Ugh.
Posted by MidnightBlue on November 2, 2006, at 23:38:24
In reply to Re: day 4 » MidnightBlue, posted by wishingstar on November 2, 2006, at 21:47:10
Wishingstar,
Maybe they need to up your dose? I eventually went to 450 mg a day on Wellbutrin. If the hospital isn't helping, than maybe it will just take time. And maybe the counseling/groups you are getting are not the right kind for you right now.
Hugs,
Midnightblue
Posted by Daisym on November 3, 2006, at 0:44:52
In reply to Re: day 4 » TherapyGirl, posted by wishingstar on November 2, 2006, at 22:20:57
I've been following your posts and I must say you are working very hard to feel better.
I think part of what helps to get out of shut down mode is to allow yourself to need therapy, the program and the various therapists right now. You can worry about the dependency later. If you allow yourself to give words to how sad, overwhelmed and despairing you feel, the shut down will give way to the words. My therapist calls it pulling threads. You just start and keep saying what comes into your head, even if it doesn't make sense at the time. And you have such high expectations for therapy right now, and such justifiable fear. I think periods of silence are to be expected.
What helps me is to write, to talk about what I've written and/or to talk about what I posted and what the responses are. He is always interested and asks questions that lead us out of stuck and down the road again.
Good Luck tomorrow.
Posted by TherapyGirl on November 3, 2006, at 7:12:45
In reply to Re: day 4 » TherapyGirl, posted by wishingstar on November 2, 2006, at 22:20:57
Thanks for the additional info. about the workshop. That doesn't sound as bad as I feared. Still, I can see how it tapped into your fears. But reliance on therapy during a difficult time is not the same as over-reliance.
Shut down is awful. The only way I know how to get through it is to try to make yourself say something, anything. When I'm in shutdown mode, the longer I sit in silence in my T's office, the worse it is. If I can make myself start the conversation, then I can usually (not always) push through to the other side.
Posted by wishingstar on November 3, 2006, at 15:47:04
In reply to Re: day 4, posted by MidnightBlue on November 2, 2006, at 23:38:24
They just switched my dose from 150 to 300.. I was only on 150 for about a week but my dr didnt think 150 would help given my experiences with other meds. I started getting these weird feelings every morning, especially right after I wake up.. almost like someone zapping me with electricity. It wasnt painful, just.. odd and scary. I talked to the dr today and he said stop taking it altogether. So I'm back to square 1 with meds. That was the 6th med that hasnt worked for me.. I hate this guessing game! Hopefully the next will work...
Posted by wishingstar on November 3, 2006, at 15:49:43
In reply to Re: day 4 » wishingstar, posted by Daisym on November 3, 2006, at 0:44:52
Thanks Daisy.
I talked to one of the therapists at partial about this today. I'll make a seperate post about it in a minute, so check that out if youre interested. Interestingly, the thing I zoned in on most from your post was the "such high expectations for therapy" bit. I know I'm highly, highly sensitive right now to being needy and I think thats why. I know you didnt mean it as a bad thing, but I'd be interested in knowing what you mean by that? Expecting things to change too quickly maybe?
Posted by wishingstar on November 3, 2006, at 16:12:58
In reply to Re: day 4 » wishingstar, posted by TherapyGirl on November 3, 2006, at 7:12:45
Another very hard, not terribly productive day.
I didnt see Randy at all today. Sandy, another therapist at the center, led the groups instead.. I guess he was busy getting ready for some conference. I really like Sandy a lot.. she is very bubbly and happy but not in a frustrating way. She is very concerned and her caring is really obvious.
Most of the day went like yesterday. I didnt say a lot. Morning group I wanted to talk, but I didnt really get asked how I was doing and I didnt feel like there was a good time to jump in without directing the attention off someone else, and I didnt want to do that. So I was mostly quiet. I spend the latter part of that group fighting back tears.. I'm not sure why. I was just feeling so sad, so alone, so sick of myself, so hopeless. Those arent new feelings for me, but the intensity is growing.
The workshops went similarly. The first was on relaxation, and we got to lay on the floor and listen to one of those relaxation tapes. Anxiety is not something I generally struggle with, but it was pretty nice anyway. Always good to relax. The second was about wellness.. all the things we do good for ourselves, what we could incorporate back into our lives that we enjoy, etc. The third was on nutrition and healthy eating. All of them were fine but I guess I was just feeling so depressed and withdrawn that nothing any of them said really reached me on a real level.
Sandy led afternoon group as well. I talked more that I had been. I told them that I'm feeling even worse now than I was before I started partial. It was a statement I'd made before, but it got her attention. I told her I was considering not coming back on Monday because I just cant connect with anything being done in partial right now. Randy always says that any step towards our goals is a step closer to being there, even if you cant see that youre any closer.. but I'm having a hard time with that. Sandy had a few people tell me why they thought I should stay, but I still dont know. It just seems pointless. The more I go and am not able to open up (and obviously not be heard), the worse I feel. I was on the verge of tears for the entire group. It's just so hard.
After group ended, everyone left and I asked Sandy about whether or not to schedule with Ginny on Tues. We talked in the lobby for a few minutes and then as I was going to leave, she asked if I needed a hug. I said yes and broke down, right there in the middle of the lobby with all these people around. I started crying and told her that it's just so hard. That there are just too many people there for me to open up.. and I can give little pieces in group, but it's so much bigger than that.. I just cant share how big it really is. I guess I made enough of a scene in the lobby because the receptionist had her take me back into the group room. We talked for maybe 15 min. I told her how it seems like the second I start opening up and being vulnerable and relying on the therapist for support, they tell me I'm being over-reliant on therapy. I'm not a person who calls often outside of sessions, it's all in-session stuff. So I told her that is why I'm putting up these walls. It feels like I cant talk without being wrong. She knows what happened with Anne... and I told her how no one (randy included) really lets me talk about it because they all say I'm focusing too much on it, obsessing, etc. At that point I broke down again.. I'd been crying some the whole time but I mean gasping sobs-type crying. She said it sounds like I need to talk about it. I wish I felt like I could... but no one wants me to. They all just want me to be over it. Move on. But I cant. What Anne did still hurts SO bad. In fact typing about her is bringing me to tears again right now. Sandy actually offered to see me, if I wanted her to... but I told her that no, I think Ginny is good and I want to see where that goes.. but she said she's always there if I decide I need her. But truly, I got the same feeling/reaction from Ginny yesterday... the "you're relying on therapy too much" feeling when I mentioned how I'd gotten that in partial. That means it must be true, because I really do think Ginny is good. But what's the other option? I know they want me to have outside support, and of course thats important. But I just dont feel like I can really open up. Because the second I do, I'm relying too much on it. Talking to Sandy and finally breaking down really felt good.. I felt like she heard the dilemma I was in, regardless of her own feelings on it. She heard how stuck I'm feeling and how bad I'm feeling. She said it sounds like I just need a huge teddy bear and a cozy blanket. Shes right.
Sandy made me promise I'd go back on Monday so I guess I'm going. I'm sure she'll tell Randy what all I said, but I still dont think I'll really be able to open up in group. We'll see I guess. It's just too many people and too overwhelming right now. I just need one person I can sit and cry with and not feel bad about taking up time for others, etc.
They also took me off my meds (wellbutrin) today. So back to the drawing board. I was getting these weird electric shock-type feelings.. not painful, just weird and scary. I was supposed to see the doctor today but he ran out of time so he just said to stop taking the wellbutrin and we'll figure out something new on Monday. That was meds failure #6. That doesnt help the feelings of hopelessness, that's for sure. So I guess I have to go back on Monday for that, if nothing else.
One girl from partial called me yesterday to talk, and I called her back... which was VERY hard for me. I isolate myself almost all the time. She just called again and I ignored it.. but I'm going to try hard to get myself to call her back tonight.
I just want to hide and cry and cry and cry. I imagine I'll be in tears on and off most of the rest of the night. I guess it's good to let it out. This just sucks.
Posted by Daisym on November 3, 2006, at 16:26:12
In reply to Re: day 4 » wishingstar, posted by Daisym on November 3, 2006, at 0:44:52
Thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt. I certainly didn't mean it as a bad thing, or as a criticism. What I meant was, you need therapy to be soothing and safe right now, and you need it to make you feel better. And you've had too many experiences lately of therapy making you feel worse. But so far, with this new therapist, there is hope that she won't crash things. But that fear -- that the wrong thing could be said and you would feel worse -- and that expectation --- that therapy is a place to heal -- combine to create silence. There is nothing wrong with having high expectations for therapy - who doesn't want to feel better?
This past week I was telling my therapist that I just wanted to feel better. I said I know he is supposed to help me look at my old patterns and I'm supposed to do the work, but really, I just wanted him to make me feel better. He stopped me and said not to beat myself up for wanting that. That EVERYONE wants their therapist to make them feel better, no matter what they say. The adult in charge knows it takes time and takes work. The hurting little girl just wants him to be magic.
I think believing in magic is as important as being realistic about the time and work. Some weeks it is more important.
Posted by sunnydays on November 3, 2006, at 17:02:02
In reply to Re: day 4 » Daisym, posted by Daisym on November 3, 2006, at 16:26:12
Daisy, that sounds kind of like what my therapist and I were talking about today. He said that it seemed like the little girl part of me was talking when I said that I didn't think I should like him so much. He's mentioned this little girl part before, but we didn't talk about it too much. I asked how I could make the little part go away, and he kind of made this gentle sort of noise, and then he said, "Well, from my perspective I don't think you'd want to do that. The goal is to make her feel safe enough so that she isn't scared anymore and she's more integrated with your adult self." It's kind of a weird concept for me since we never have discussed it before, but I remember you've talked about it a lot. He said next time we could maybe do some visualization about that. Do you find thinking that way makes things easier or harder? Or some of both?
thanks,
sunnydays
Posted by Daisym on November 3, 2006, at 23:48:04
In reply to Re: day 4 » Daisym, posted by sunnydays on November 3, 2006, at 17:02:02
Hi Sunny,
I'll start a new thread below to answer your question. I don't want to hijack this thread.
Daisy
Posted by TherapyGirl on November 4, 2006, at 19:36:16
In reply to day 5 (v. long), posted by wishingstar on November 3, 2006, at 16:12:58
Just want you to know that I read this and I'm thinking about it. Have had a really busy couple of days, but I am thinking of you often and hoping you are getting through the weekend okay. Okay?
Posted by wishingstar on November 4, 2006, at 21:27:05
In reply to Re: day 5 (v. long) » wishingstar, posted by TherapyGirl on November 4, 2006, at 19:36:16
thank you therapygirl. i appreciate you saying that. it means a lot to know people are thinking of me.
sorry to hear youre so busy recently. I'm thinking of you too and hope you're okay.
Posted by toojane on November 5, 2006, at 0:55:58
In reply to day 5 (v. long), posted by wishingstar on November 3, 2006, at 16:12:58
>She knows what happened with Anne... and I told her how no one (randy included) really lets me talk about it because they all say I'm focusing too much on it, obsessing, etc. At that point I broke down again.. I'd been crying some the whole time but I mean gasping sobs-type crying. She said it sounds like I need to talk about it. I wish I felt like I could... but no one wants me to. They all just want me to be over it. Move on. But I cant. What Anne did still hurts SO bad.
Oh Wishstar, who is Anne? Who does she remind you of?
Instead of believing you are obsessing, could you maybe be remembering? Does the way you feel right now about Anne remind you of any other time in your life? There is Anne and the pain of what she did...but perhaps there is also a before-Anne and it is that before-Anne that is making the now-Anne resonate so strongly and painfully. If one of your therapists could help you find and talk about any possible connections between all the Annes in your life, maybe that could bring a kind of peace that is so absent now for you.Annes are incomprehensible. Their power to hurt comes from the sheer number of them. That spiritual counsellor has never had an Anne in her life. That is why she can say she lives a fairytale and it is also why she was so completely unable to grasp the pain the group was in. How do you explain an Anne to someone who has never met one?
Posted by wishingstar on November 5, 2006, at 10:44:22
In reply to Re: day 5 (v. long) » wishingstar, posted by toojane on November 5, 2006, at 0:55:58
Good point. Anne is absolutely, 100%, no doubt my parents. They mirror each other quite a bit. My parents led me to believe everything was great, I was supported, they loved me.. until I was essentially abandoned around 15 and realized my entire childhood, I had allowed myself to see things as I expected theyd be, not as they were. I expected that caring and support lay beneath their silence. It didnt. But talk about big abandonment issues now.... I have a hard time trusting the neutrality of therapy sometimes, because the neutrality that I trusted for so long as a child blew up in my face.
I trusted Anne's neutrality for about a year. And she was especially removed.. more than most therapists I've known. Very strong boundaries. We talked about that fear. In fact, we spent most of the spring talking about my fears with trusting her, fears of being vulnerable, etc. But then she basically abandoned me as well. I'm not sure if you've heard the whole story, but that pretty much sums it up. No termination except for a brief letter a month later that was really more hurtful than helpful.
So it absolutely stirs up the hurts from my childhood. The experience has made me become much more aware of how hurt I still am over what happened in my childhood. I have talked about this a lot in therapy... especially with Laurie, who I'm not seeing anymore but saw until recently. All she wanted to do for weeks was make cognitive connections between the two. I've talked about it a little with Ginny as well.
Maybe talking about the underlying abandonment is really what I need to do. Obviously it needs to be dealt with. But I guess I just want someone (other than you all here) to let me talk about HER for a little while. One session. How badly SHE hurt me. What she did was wrong, regardless of my past hurts. I wonder if there is therapeutic value in that... or if the value is really just in talking about the underlying stuff. I guess in some ways, the refusal of my therapists to let me talk about what happened with her feels very devalidating. I definitely understand it on a cognitive level, but it's not helping the hurt. I guess what I want is just to be able to talk about it in therapy, cry my eyes out and talk about HER and what happened, not my parents.. and have them tell me that it's okay, it's okay to be hurting, what she did WAS wrong. I dont know why that would be so bad.
I'm not sure how I got so off course from your original comment. I guess you can tell I want to talk about it! Haha. Thank you for bringing that up though. Youre completely right and it helps to keep that in mind.
Posted by Gee on November 5, 2006, at 14:13:00
In reply to Re: day 5 (v. long) » toojane, posted by wishingstar on November 5, 2006, at 10:44:22
Hey Wishingstar,
I've been reading what you've been writing when I can. You are so brave. I had a whole post in my head, and now I have time to write, do you think I can remember it? Nope. Keep going. At least you can be around people who will watch out for your best interest.
Gee
Posted by toojane on November 5, 2006, at 16:04:59
In reply to Re: day 5 (v. long) » toojane, posted by wishingstar on November 5, 2006, at 10:44:22
>But I guess I just want someone (other than you all here) to let me talk about HER for a little while. One session. How badly SHE hurt me. What she did was wrong, regardless of my past hurts.
I think that is a perfectly valid want. It is necessary to clearly see and label and mourn the hurts in the now as well as in the then. Present hurts may be amplified because of the past but they are not nullifed because of it. Completely dismissing your present pain as irrelevant because the roots of it may have started in the past is in itself a repetition of abandonment and belittlement.
Posted by wishingstar on November 6, 2006, at 15:30:37
In reply to Re: day 5 (v. long) » wishingstar, posted by toojane on November 5, 2006, at 16:04:59
They switched my meds again. Now I'm off wellbutrin (it was making me sick) and on lithium. I dont want to take the lithium. I'm not bipolar. I havent decided whether or not I will... they gave me samples.
Overall I feel miserable. In a complete daze. I know that tomorrow I'll barely remember this entire evening.. not that ill forget, itll just seem unreal. thats what happens to me when it gets bad like this.
I said very little all day at partial. They check in with everyone in the morning.. I said I felt terrible.. that was about it. No questions directed at me during afternoon group except for whether or not the dr changed my meds. This is hard to admit, but I guess I feel a little ignored there lately. I guess they know I'm feeling blocked off, so I guess the Ts want to leave me alone.. but I just wish more than anything that theyd ASK. I was on the verge of tears all of the second group.. and I dont know what Id have said if the T asked how I was. Very possible broken down right there. I just feel ignored.I've felt this way since mid week last week but I havent wanted to admit it becuase its therapy, so its my responsibility to jump in. But regardless, it's how I feel. In morning group Randy said he figured I probably didnt want him to pick on me (direct attention on me) and I actually said that no, it was okay.. I just didnt know what to say. And there is this one girl there, K.. who is in a somewhat similar situation to me..and several times since I've been there hes taken her back into his office and theyve talked, hes calmed her down, etc... why doesnt he want to talk to ME? It's not because she was freaking out or anything. He did it today and she was sitting just fine, quietly, in group. I know what her situation is.. in fact, I know things she hasnt told the therapists.. so its not that theres a crisis I dont know about. Is it dumb of me to feel this way? I really struggle with feeling like im just an attention-seeker. Maybe I am.
I'm not going to partial tomorrow. We have 2 1-hour workshops in the mornings, and every Tues, both hour blocks are taken up by this one guy who does relaxation stuff. Hes good at it, but it'd be my 4th time hearing it, and for some reason, those exercises always seem to drop my mood a few notches. So I asked randy what to do and he said its okay if I dont come tomorrow. So I'll go back Wed. I also told him, again, that I feel just as bad as I did before I got to the hospital. He said we can talk Wed about whether partial is the right place for me right now. If partial isnt, what the hell is? Inpatient was NOT helpful.. in fact, it made me feel worse. Regular therapy obviously isnt working. I just feel so hopeless. Like there is nothing that will ever pull me out of this. No where I can go.
I'm just miserable. I just hurt so bad. I left partial today and cried my way home in the car. I know there isnt much left to say to this because I've posted this same stuff so many times.. so its okay if no one responds. But I guess it helps to know someone is at least reading it. So thanks. I'm trying.
Posted by sunnydays on November 6, 2006, at 16:00:32
In reply to day 6, posted by wishingstar on November 6, 2006, at 15:30:37
(((((((wishingstar))))))
You are doing a great job. Try taking the lithium - it doesn't mean you're bipolar, and even if you were, it wouldn't be a bad thing, I know wonderful sensitive people who are bipolar. It's all about your brain chemistry, not about you. Sometimes finding the right medication can make a world of difference when you feel this bad.
I am in awe of you - I am not exaggerating. That you are able to push yourself to go to partial when you are feeling that bad really says something about your internal strength. But I get it that you don't want to have to be strong, you want someone to fix it for you.
Keep trying. It will get better eventually. I'm proud of you.
sunnydays
Posted by MidnightBlue on November 6, 2006, at 16:43:45
In reply to day 6, posted by wishingstar on November 6, 2006, at 15:30:37
Try the lithium. I was offered it and I am 100% unipolar. I didn't take it, but that is a different story. It conflicted with one of my other meds.
Why inpatient and why might it help? As an inpatient they can rapidly change your meds and watch closely how you are doing. That might be a reason to go inpatient again for a short time. If you are very depressed you CAN'T force yourself to be part of a group. And you can't participate well in any therapy.
You aren't failing, you just need more help. Hang in there.
MidnightBlue
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