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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 8 to 32 of 50. Go back in thread:
Posted by TherapyGirl on November 1, 2006, at 7:13:06
In reply to day 2... i went (v. long), posted by wishingstar on October 31, 2006, at 20:53:47
I am so glad you decided to go and also very glad for the detailed update. I think you are building your new team with two amazing, gifted Ts -- Randy and Ginny. I'm impressed with what you said about both of them.
Keep on keepin' on, okay?
Posted by wishingstar on November 1, 2006, at 15:16:51
In reply to Re: day 2... i went (v. long), posted by ElaineM on October 31, 2006, at 22:50:51
Hey Elaine and any others who are interested.. this is the SI idea Randy gave me yesterday. I've heard of the snapping a rubber band, coloring on yourself with red marker, holding ice.. none of it really seemed realistic or helpful to me. But I liked this one.
Randys idea was to pick one thing that you like to use to hurt yourself.. one razor, etc... and commit to injuring yourself with only THAT one thing. You're allowed to cut with only that. Then take it, put it in a cup of water, and leave it in the freezer so it turns to ice. Then the next time youre feeling strong urges, remember the deal. If you want to cut, you have to go get that cup out of the freezer and either wait for it to melt, melt it yourself, etc. If you do that and still want to cut, then okay. You can give yourself permission. I know it sounds weird say it's okay, but the idea behind it is that by the time you get to the razor itself, the immediate urge will likely have passed.
If you live with family (or anyone else) that would make this hard to do, there is one other thing similar. I have a roommate. He suggested taking the one thing and hiding it somewhere outside your house - in the woods under a rock, etc. Somewhere where youll be able to find it again, but that youd have to walk (at least a few minutes away) or drive to get to. A nearby park is what he suggested. Then it works the same - if you want to cut, you have to go to that place, find the razor, and probably clean it off before you allow yourself to do it. He told me that while I'm driving back to the place to find the razor, I should think about what I'm doing and whether it's what I truly want to do. He said to ask myself whether it really makes sense to hurt myself because of someone elses pain (I was triggered by someone elses cuts yesterday). Is that really how you want to treat the little girl inside you? Is it fair? Does it make sense? Again, the option is still there to do it anyway.
It sounds so simple but I think it's great. The hardest part is promising yourself that youll only use that one thing. Maybe getting rid of all other options (all other razor blades, etc) would help. I know I have a hard time when anyone suggests I throw all mine out.. it's life a safety net. But you'd still have one available. It'd just take a little more work.
I hope this helps someone.
Posted by wishingstar on November 1, 2006, at 15:31:51
In reply to Re: day 2... i went (v. long) » wishingstar, posted by TherapyGirl on November 1, 2006, at 7:13:06
Thank you Elaine and therapygirl.. A day later, I'm glad I went yesterday too.
Today was not so great. It's just a different experience with so many people (8-9 rather than 3-5). I think Randy is just brilliant and really gets me, but there just isnt as much time in group for each person to talk this time around. It's also the second time I've been through all the workshops, so I'm not getting as much out of it. However, aside from all that negativity, it's still good and is helping some.
I dont have as much to say about today. No major breakthroughs. A new girl came in today who has won an emmy for her acting.. isnt that amazing? Not a name I think any of you would recognize (I didnt), but how cool. Shes in a movie that is coming to the theaters in Jan. I'll definitely go see it.
One workshop in particular today was... interesting. Later in the day, the group talked to Randy about it and I think we may have gotten the woman fired. Oops. He said he had to think about whether he wants her doing groups anymore. It was really bad. It was a workshop on spirituality and wellness. This woman was a chaplain for the hospital, ordained in the Mennonite church (we have a large mennonite population around here). Within the first 10 minutes of the hour, her and another patient were arguing about an interpretation of the Bible (whether or not communion with a church family is essential). Finally I stepped in and moderated it a bit and said let's just agree to disagree, and that stopped. This woman was the therapist! She handed out a list of 50 things to do to nurture the soul or something and the list wasnt bad, but she was implying that if we just did those things, we'd all be better. We talked about psych meds and she kept implying how spirituality, etc is so much more important than meds and that if we'd just get out of bed, we'd be better off. We tried to explain to her what depression feels like (not being able to get out of bed) and she just didnt hear it. Finally, in a frustrated, almighty sort of voice she says "listen, i'm the only one here who ISNT on drugs". I was wondering if she thought we meant illegal drugs so I clarified, but no, she meant psych meds. So obviously, SHE knows all and we should just listen to her. Later on, towards the end of group as we were talking more about how hard it is to do these things she was suggesting, she said again in a similar tone, "well MY life is wonderful in case any of you were interested" and proceeded to say that she is always content and that her life is like a fairytale. It was interesting. The frustrations were definitely high. Right after that, she said she was done and had nothing left to say, and got her stuff together and left. This was only 45 min into the hour long group. Fine with me!
So in afternoon group, we all told Randy about this. He took out pen and paper and wrote down everything we said. He said he was very angry about it and didnt know if would have her back (even though shes been coming every week for awhile). He said he;d never gotten complaints before but wow... I (and the others) felt very offended and hurt by what she was saying. You'd think someone working in a mental health program like this one would at least have a little understanding and sensitivity to what we're going through.
Phew. That was the only big moment in my day. Everything else went pretty smoothly. Tomorrow I see Ginny. I cant wait.
Posted by TherapyGirl on November 1, 2006, at 20:22:20
In reply to day 3, posted by wishingstar on November 1, 2006, at 15:31:51
Let me just say, "Oh my WORRRRRRDDDDDDD!" in response to the idiot "spiritual" counselor. What the heck is she thinking? And why didn't they screen her out?
I'm glad Randy took your criticisms seriously. He really is one of the good ones, isn't he? And you see another one tomorrow. Can't wait to hear how things go with Ginny.
I'm really, really glad you're sticking with this, even though I know it's much harder with that big of a group.
Posted by wishingstar on November 1, 2006, at 20:45:09
In reply to Re: day 3 » wishingstar, posted by TherapyGirl on November 1, 2006, at 20:22:20
ohh worddd indeed. It was quite the experience! Luckily it was a group and we all were able to vent and bond together over it.. thank goodness she doesnt do individual therapy. Randy said he'd never gotten any real complaints about her before... nothing more than "that workshop really wasnt for me". I think the dynamic of the group today made it escelate some.. but either way, she should be able to deal with that. Pffttt. You're right.. Randy is good. He really is.
Posted by muffled on November 1, 2006, at 21:36:34
In reply to Re: day 3 » TherapyGirl, posted by wishingstar on November 1, 2006, at 20:45:09
WS, thanks for posting bout the SI and bout your hosp program.
My thots are with you.
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by wishingstar on November 2, 2006, at 21:05:33
In reply to partial hosp day 1, posted by wishingstar on October 30, 2006, at 21:42:43
Today was terrible.
Partial was okay. The workshops were fine. I was just miserable. I didnt really get any time to talk in group, although I'm not sure I wanted it anyway. I felt very shut off. On the verge of tears all day. One workshop talked about over-reliance on therapy and brought up a lot of really painful feelings for me. I know I am incredibly reliant on therapy and knowing that just makes me feel so worthless. It makes me just want to give up.
I saw Ginny. It was okay too. I was excited to see her.. finally get to talk.. because part of the reason i cant talk in partial is that there are so many people there. But I guess her and Randy talked before I got there today and he told her what I've been doing (shutting down) so her expectation that I'd do that with her sort of created it. I had a hard time opening up. I didnt say a lot. I just cant.
Its just been a miserable day. Nothing matters. Randy can talk and talk about taking steps towards goals, but it just doesnt matter. I just cant connect with that.
Hopefully a happier report tomorrow.
Posted by MidnightBlue on November 2, 2006, at 21:27:02
In reply to day 4, posted by wishingstar on November 2, 2006, at 21:05:33
Hang in there! I hate to say it, but maybe you need another change in meds?
MB
Posted by TherapyGirl on November 2, 2006, at 21:42:03
In reply to day 4, posted by wishingstar on November 2, 2006, at 21:05:33
**One workshop talked about over-reliance on therapy and brought up a lot of really painful feelings for me.**
I'm sorry you had a bad day. And I'm puzzled about the purpose of the above workshop. Isn't everyone in partial "overly reliant" on therapy right now? You know, I think Randy is great from what you've said and I believe that he's been helpful, but I'm seeing some questionable workshops in the partial program, counting yesterday's "spiritual counselor." Who's in charge of creating the workshops?
I'm sorry you had a hard time opening up with Ginny as well. I think that will get better. I know when I'm in shut-down mode, it's very hard to switch back and forth -- it takes time.
((((((((WishingStar))))))
Posted by wishingstar on November 2, 2006, at 21:47:10
In reply to Re: day 4 » wishingstar, posted by MidnightBlue on November 2, 2006, at 21:27:02
I just had my meds switched about a week ago. So far, I've never been able to find a drug that works. This is the 6th one I've tried. Wellbutrin. We'll see but my hopes arent too high.
What are you supposed to do when even being in the hospital just doesnt help?
Posted by wishingstar on November 2, 2006, at 22:20:57
In reply to Re: day 4 » wishingstar, posted by TherapyGirl on November 2, 2006, at 21:42:03
The workshop wasnt supposed to be about overreliance on therapy. The woman who lead it is actually one of my favorites at the center. The workshop was on relationships, and she opened it up for discussion. One man brought up relationships with therapists and it went from there. She talked about forming support networks outside therapy, etc... it wasnt nearly as bad as I made it sound. I just focused in on the over-reliance part because it's a huge fear I have. Randy chooses the workshops.. but he's very concerned about the quality of them. He said the spiritual counselor woman wont be coming back after yesterdays "event".
Shut down mode is exactly it. How do you take steps to get out of it? I feel like I'll just be stuck here forever. What do you do when even the hospital doesnt help? Ugh.
Posted by MidnightBlue on November 2, 2006, at 23:38:24
In reply to Re: day 4 » MidnightBlue, posted by wishingstar on November 2, 2006, at 21:47:10
Wishingstar,
Maybe they need to up your dose? I eventually went to 450 mg a day on Wellbutrin. If the hospital isn't helping, than maybe it will just take time. And maybe the counseling/groups you are getting are not the right kind for you right now.
Hugs,
Midnightblue
Posted by Daisym on November 3, 2006, at 0:44:52
In reply to Re: day 4 » TherapyGirl, posted by wishingstar on November 2, 2006, at 22:20:57
I've been following your posts and I must say you are working very hard to feel better.
I think part of what helps to get out of shut down mode is to allow yourself to need therapy, the program and the various therapists right now. You can worry about the dependency later. If you allow yourself to give words to how sad, overwhelmed and despairing you feel, the shut down will give way to the words. My therapist calls it pulling threads. You just start and keep saying what comes into your head, even if it doesn't make sense at the time. And you have such high expectations for therapy right now, and such justifiable fear. I think periods of silence are to be expected.
What helps me is to write, to talk about what I've written and/or to talk about what I posted and what the responses are. He is always interested and asks questions that lead us out of stuck and down the road again.
Good Luck tomorrow.
Posted by TherapyGirl on November 3, 2006, at 7:12:45
In reply to Re: day 4 » TherapyGirl, posted by wishingstar on November 2, 2006, at 22:20:57
Thanks for the additional info. about the workshop. That doesn't sound as bad as I feared. Still, I can see how it tapped into your fears. But reliance on therapy during a difficult time is not the same as over-reliance.
Shut down is awful. The only way I know how to get through it is to try to make yourself say something, anything. When I'm in shutdown mode, the longer I sit in silence in my T's office, the worse it is. If I can make myself start the conversation, then I can usually (not always) push through to the other side.
Posted by wishingstar on November 3, 2006, at 15:47:04
In reply to Re: day 4, posted by MidnightBlue on November 2, 2006, at 23:38:24
They just switched my dose from 150 to 300.. I was only on 150 for about a week but my dr didnt think 150 would help given my experiences with other meds. I started getting these weird feelings every morning, especially right after I wake up.. almost like someone zapping me with electricity. It wasnt painful, just.. odd and scary. I talked to the dr today and he said stop taking it altogether. So I'm back to square 1 with meds. That was the 6th med that hasnt worked for me.. I hate this guessing game! Hopefully the next will work...
Posted by wishingstar on November 3, 2006, at 15:49:43
In reply to Re: day 4 » wishingstar, posted by Daisym on November 3, 2006, at 0:44:52
Thanks Daisy.
I talked to one of the therapists at partial about this today. I'll make a seperate post about it in a minute, so check that out if youre interested. Interestingly, the thing I zoned in on most from your post was the "such high expectations for therapy" bit. I know I'm highly, highly sensitive right now to being needy and I think thats why. I know you didnt mean it as a bad thing, but I'd be interested in knowing what you mean by that? Expecting things to change too quickly maybe?
Posted by wishingstar on November 3, 2006, at 16:12:58
In reply to Re: day 4 » wishingstar, posted by TherapyGirl on November 3, 2006, at 7:12:45
Another very hard, not terribly productive day.
I didnt see Randy at all today. Sandy, another therapist at the center, led the groups instead.. I guess he was busy getting ready for some conference. I really like Sandy a lot.. she is very bubbly and happy but not in a frustrating way. She is very concerned and her caring is really obvious.
Most of the day went like yesterday. I didnt say a lot. Morning group I wanted to talk, but I didnt really get asked how I was doing and I didnt feel like there was a good time to jump in without directing the attention off someone else, and I didnt want to do that. So I was mostly quiet. I spend the latter part of that group fighting back tears.. I'm not sure why. I was just feeling so sad, so alone, so sick of myself, so hopeless. Those arent new feelings for me, but the intensity is growing.
The workshops went similarly. The first was on relaxation, and we got to lay on the floor and listen to one of those relaxation tapes. Anxiety is not something I generally struggle with, but it was pretty nice anyway. Always good to relax. The second was about wellness.. all the things we do good for ourselves, what we could incorporate back into our lives that we enjoy, etc. The third was on nutrition and healthy eating. All of them were fine but I guess I was just feeling so depressed and withdrawn that nothing any of them said really reached me on a real level.
Sandy led afternoon group as well. I talked more that I had been. I told them that I'm feeling even worse now than I was before I started partial. It was a statement I'd made before, but it got her attention. I told her I was considering not coming back on Monday because I just cant connect with anything being done in partial right now. Randy always says that any step towards our goals is a step closer to being there, even if you cant see that youre any closer.. but I'm having a hard time with that. Sandy had a few people tell me why they thought I should stay, but I still dont know. It just seems pointless. The more I go and am not able to open up (and obviously not be heard), the worse I feel. I was on the verge of tears for the entire group. It's just so hard.
After group ended, everyone left and I asked Sandy about whether or not to schedule with Ginny on Tues. We talked in the lobby for a few minutes and then as I was going to leave, she asked if I needed a hug. I said yes and broke down, right there in the middle of the lobby with all these people around. I started crying and told her that it's just so hard. That there are just too many people there for me to open up.. and I can give little pieces in group, but it's so much bigger than that.. I just cant share how big it really is. I guess I made enough of a scene in the lobby because the receptionist had her take me back into the group room. We talked for maybe 15 min. I told her how it seems like the second I start opening up and being vulnerable and relying on the therapist for support, they tell me I'm being over-reliant on therapy. I'm not a person who calls often outside of sessions, it's all in-session stuff. So I told her that is why I'm putting up these walls. It feels like I cant talk without being wrong. She knows what happened with Anne... and I told her how no one (randy included) really lets me talk about it because they all say I'm focusing too much on it, obsessing, etc. At that point I broke down again.. I'd been crying some the whole time but I mean gasping sobs-type crying. She said it sounds like I need to talk about it. I wish I felt like I could... but no one wants me to. They all just want me to be over it. Move on. But I cant. What Anne did still hurts SO bad. In fact typing about her is bringing me to tears again right now. Sandy actually offered to see me, if I wanted her to... but I told her that no, I think Ginny is good and I want to see where that goes.. but she said she's always there if I decide I need her. But truly, I got the same feeling/reaction from Ginny yesterday... the "you're relying on therapy too much" feeling when I mentioned how I'd gotten that in partial. That means it must be true, because I really do think Ginny is good. But what's the other option? I know they want me to have outside support, and of course thats important. But I just dont feel like I can really open up. Because the second I do, I'm relying too much on it. Talking to Sandy and finally breaking down really felt good.. I felt like she heard the dilemma I was in, regardless of her own feelings on it. She heard how stuck I'm feeling and how bad I'm feeling. She said it sounds like I just need a huge teddy bear and a cozy blanket. Shes right.
Sandy made me promise I'd go back on Monday so I guess I'm going. I'm sure she'll tell Randy what all I said, but I still dont think I'll really be able to open up in group. We'll see I guess. It's just too many people and too overwhelming right now. I just need one person I can sit and cry with and not feel bad about taking up time for others, etc.
They also took me off my meds (wellbutrin) today. So back to the drawing board. I was getting these weird electric shock-type feelings.. not painful, just weird and scary. I was supposed to see the doctor today but he ran out of time so he just said to stop taking the wellbutrin and we'll figure out something new on Monday. That was meds failure #6. That doesnt help the feelings of hopelessness, that's for sure. So I guess I have to go back on Monday for that, if nothing else.
One girl from partial called me yesterday to talk, and I called her back... which was VERY hard for me. I isolate myself almost all the time. She just called again and I ignored it.. but I'm going to try hard to get myself to call her back tonight.
I just want to hide and cry and cry and cry. I imagine I'll be in tears on and off most of the rest of the night. I guess it's good to let it out. This just sucks.
Posted by Daisym on November 3, 2006, at 16:26:12
In reply to Re: day 4 » wishingstar, posted by Daisym on November 3, 2006, at 0:44:52
Thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt. I certainly didn't mean it as a bad thing, or as a criticism. What I meant was, you need therapy to be soothing and safe right now, and you need it to make you feel better. And you've had too many experiences lately of therapy making you feel worse. But so far, with this new therapist, there is hope that she won't crash things. But that fear -- that the wrong thing could be said and you would feel worse -- and that expectation --- that therapy is a place to heal -- combine to create silence. There is nothing wrong with having high expectations for therapy - who doesn't want to feel better?
This past week I was telling my therapist that I just wanted to feel better. I said I know he is supposed to help me look at my old patterns and I'm supposed to do the work, but really, I just wanted him to make me feel better. He stopped me and said not to beat myself up for wanting that. That EVERYONE wants their therapist to make them feel better, no matter what they say. The adult in charge knows it takes time and takes work. The hurting little girl just wants him to be magic.
I think believing in magic is as important as being realistic about the time and work. Some weeks it is more important.
Posted by sunnydays on November 3, 2006, at 17:02:02
In reply to Re: day 4 » Daisym, posted by Daisym on November 3, 2006, at 16:26:12
Daisy, that sounds kind of like what my therapist and I were talking about today. He said that it seemed like the little girl part of me was talking when I said that I didn't think I should like him so much. He's mentioned this little girl part before, but we didn't talk about it too much. I asked how I could make the little part go away, and he kind of made this gentle sort of noise, and then he said, "Well, from my perspective I don't think you'd want to do that. The goal is to make her feel safe enough so that she isn't scared anymore and she's more integrated with your adult self." It's kind of a weird concept for me since we never have discussed it before, but I remember you've talked about it a lot. He said next time we could maybe do some visualization about that. Do you find thinking that way makes things easier or harder? Or some of both?
thanks,
sunnydays
Posted by Daisym on November 3, 2006, at 23:48:04
In reply to Re: day 4 » Daisym, posted by sunnydays on November 3, 2006, at 17:02:02
Hi Sunny,
I'll start a new thread below to answer your question. I don't want to hijack this thread.
Daisy
Posted by TherapyGirl on November 4, 2006, at 19:36:16
In reply to day 5 (v. long), posted by wishingstar on November 3, 2006, at 16:12:58
Just want you to know that I read this and I'm thinking about it. Have had a really busy couple of days, but I am thinking of you often and hoping you are getting through the weekend okay. Okay?
Posted by wishingstar on November 4, 2006, at 21:27:05
In reply to Re: day 5 (v. long) » wishingstar, posted by TherapyGirl on November 4, 2006, at 19:36:16
thank you therapygirl. i appreciate you saying that. it means a lot to know people are thinking of me.
sorry to hear youre so busy recently. I'm thinking of you too and hope you're okay.
Posted by toojane on November 5, 2006, at 0:55:58
In reply to day 5 (v. long), posted by wishingstar on November 3, 2006, at 16:12:58
>She knows what happened with Anne... and I told her how no one (randy included) really lets me talk about it because they all say I'm focusing too much on it, obsessing, etc. At that point I broke down again.. I'd been crying some the whole time but I mean gasping sobs-type crying. She said it sounds like I need to talk about it. I wish I felt like I could... but no one wants me to. They all just want me to be over it. Move on. But I cant. What Anne did still hurts SO bad.
Oh Wishstar, who is Anne? Who does she remind you of?
Instead of believing you are obsessing, could you maybe be remembering? Does the way you feel right now about Anne remind you of any other time in your life? There is Anne and the pain of what she did...but perhaps there is also a before-Anne and it is that before-Anne that is making the now-Anne resonate so strongly and painfully. If one of your therapists could help you find and talk about any possible connections between all the Annes in your life, maybe that could bring a kind of peace that is so absent now for you.Annes are incomprehensible. Their power to hurt comes from the sheer number of them. That spiritual counsellor has never had an Anne in her life. That is why she can say she lives a fairytale and it is also why she was so completely unable to grasp the pain the group was in. How do you explain an Anne to someone who has never met one?
Posted by wishingstar on November 5, 2006, at 10:44:22
In reply to Re: day 5 (v. long) » wishingstar, posted by toojane on November 5, 2006, at 0:55:58
Good point. Anne is absolutely, 100%, no doubt my parents. They mirror each other quite a bit. My parents led me to believe everything was great, I was supported, they loved me.. until I was essentially abandoned around 15 and realized my entire childhood, I had allowed myself to see things as I expected theyd be, not as they were. I expected that caring and support lay beneath their silence. It didnt. But talk about big abandonment issues now.... I have a hard time trusting the neutrality of therapy sometimes, because the neutrality that I trusted for so long as a child blew up in my face.
I trusted Anne's neutrality for about a year. And she was especially removed.. more than most therapists I've known. Very strong boundaries. We talked about that fear. In fact, we spent most of the spring talking about my fears with trusting her, fears of being vulnerable, etc. But then she basically abandoned me as well. I'm not sure if you've heard the whole story, but that pretty much sums it up. No termination except for a brief letter a month later that was really more hurtful than helpful.
So it absolutely stirs up the hurts from my childhood. The experience has made me become much more aware of how hurt I still am over what happened in my childhood. I have talked about this a lot in therapy... especially with Laurie, who I'm not seeing anymore but saw until recently. All she wanted to do for weeks was make cognitive connections between the two. I've talked about it a little with Ginny as well.
Maybe talking about the underlying abandonment is really what I need to do. Obviously it needs to be dealt with. But I guess I just want someone (other than you all here) to let me talk about HER for a little while. One session. How badly SHE hurt me. What she did was wrong, regardless of my past hurts. I wonder if there is therapeutic value in that... or if the value is really just in talking about the underlying stuff. I guess in some ways, the refusal of my therapists to let me talk about what happened with her feels very devalidating. I definitely understand it on a cognitive level, but it's not helping the hurt. I guess what I want is just to be able to talk about it in therapy, cry my eyes out and talk about HER and what happened, not my parents.. and have them tell me that it's okay, it's okay to be hurting, what she did WAS wrong. I dont know why that would be so bad.
I'm not sure how I got so off course from your original comment. I guess you can tell I want to talk about it! Haha. Thank you for bringing that up though. Youre completely right and it helps to keep that in mind.
Posted by Gee on November 5, 2006, at 14:13:00
In reply to Re: day 5 (v. long) » toojane, posted by wishingstar on November 5, 2006, at 10:44:22
Hey Wishingstar,
I've been reading what you've been writing when I can. You are so brave. I had a whole post in my head, and now I have time to write, do you think I can remember it? Nope. Keep going. At least you can be around people who will watch out for your best interest.
Gee
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