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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 14, 2006, at 9:00:05
i don't think...
you should express
dependency
fragility
lonliness
'cause then people know
they can take advantage
and...
they do
Posted by alexandra_k on October 14, 2006, at 9:08:14
In reply to i don't think, posted by alexandra_k on October 14, 2006, at 9:00:05
or...
they find it distasteful
and back off
Posted by pseudoname on October 14, 2006, at 10:08:39
In reply to i don't think, posted by alexandra_k on October 14, 2006, at 9:00:05
I don't quite see others taking advantage of me for disclosing those vulnerabilities. Well, I guess they may in buffaloing me into silence or dismissing my comments in conversation. But I do see people having adverse reactions to people who make explicit declarations of "dependency, fragility, [&] loneliness." I think people often have very unpleasant reactions.
For myself, when people disclose these things to me, if I previously have a relationship where I respect them AND if I don't think the disclosure is a prelude to making unwelcome demands on me, then it's cool, and I may respect them more and may feel closer to them for their disclosure.
But what would make the sense of "demands" "unwelcome" to me?? I can only think that I don't have enough of a relationship with them yet to know that I can trust THEM to respect my boundaries if I open myself enough to feel the pain that they're sharing without (in my mind) getting taken advantage of.
In any case, I hope I would not take advantage of others for their disclosures.
But Alex, I wonder: What sort of advantage do you see (other!) people sometimes taking when we disclose our vulnerabilities?
Posted by alexandra_k on October 14, 2006, at 10:39:09
In reply to boundaries? » alexandra_k, posted by pseudoname on October 14, 2006, at 10:08:39
sorry... i meant me. us. me. if people know you are lonely... then they make demands. because they know you will do fairly much whatever they want so you don't have to be alone
:-(
and vulnerabilities are weaknesses too.. if you upset someone then you get to comfort them :-(
Posted by pseudoname on October 14, 2006, at 11:52:13
In reply to Re: boundaries?, posted by alexandra_k on October 14, 2006, at 10:39:09
> if people know you are lonely... then they make demands. because they know you will do fairly much whatever they want so you don't have to be alone
That's certainly plausible, but I guess there's room for interpretation there, too. Maybe sometimes people are trying to treat the other's loneliness by making (unwelcome, it sounds like) suggestions for spending time together. I can imagine someone easily thinking, "I'll get Lonely Louie to help me move. He'll be less likely to turn down an invitation if he thinks I really need his help, and getting out among others on a project will be good for him."
I've been the victim of other people's well-meaning interventions before, alas.
Is someone doing this to you now, Alex? (If I may ask.)
> if you upset someone then you get to comfort them :-(
Do you really deal with people who are THAT cynical and manipulative? People who would deliberately upset someone just to get to comfort them?! That's too bad. Outside of some pathological romantic relationships, I have trouble picturing how it would happen. Maybe in caregiver-charge (parent-child, e.g.) pathology…
Posted by Racer on October 14, 2006, at 12:19:27
In reply to Re: boundaries? » alexandra_k, posted by pseudoname on October 14, 2006, at 11:52:13
>
> > if you upset someone then you get to comfort them :-(
>
> Do you really deal with people who are THAT cynical and manipulative? People who would deliberately upset someone just to get to comfort them?! That's too bad. Outside of some pathological romantic relationships, I have trouble picturing how it would happen.The man who abused me as a child was like that. He'd do that to my mother, and to me as well.
But that wasn't because my mother did soemthing wrong to bring it on. It was because he was a vile, cruel, and sadistic man; it was his pathology that caused what happened.
My mother's loneliness and other vulnerabilities are the reason she accepted the little things, which then grew into big things. Mother didn't do anything to stop him, either, when he turned it onto me. She's not blameless, but she was also his victim. And he was the perpetrator. Period.
Alex, if someone is abusing you in this way now, it is not your "shameful" vulnerability -- it is his/her sadistic pathology. Protect yourself by avoiding this contact -- not someone who can be fixed...
I don't know what's going on for you, Alex, but I hope things get better soonest.
Posted by Declan on October 14, 2006, at 17:43:08
In reply to i don't think, posted by alexandra_k on October 14, 2006, at 9:00:05
Sometimes, but not always. Some people like the trust (and disclosure) involved in the sharing of vulnerability.
Though when I show it I feel pretty anxious. Then if I get a good response I feel relief.
But in mainstream culture, of course.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 14, 2006, at 20:42:52
In reply to Re: boundaries? » alexandra_k, posted by pseudoname on October 14, 2006, at 11:52:13
ugh. i can't believe i posted that... hey do you remember that harrison pope guy who was doing that stuff on recovered memories? i was sure i had encountered some of his work before, but i was having a blank as to where... found it... he is a member of the false memory foundation so yeah he had a bit of an agenda with what he was saying. he (and others) did this survey study too of the attitudes of board certified psychiatrists (in the US) towards the dx of DID. trying to get it out of the DSM basically... i was sure i had encountered him somewhere... i cited him i do believe. lol.
it is more about... sexual stuff. i get myself into these messes...
> Is someone doing this to you now, Alex? (If I may ask.)
i'm okay. i handled it okay. not the best... but okay. i've had a talk to this guy before and he said that yeah people target me because they can see that i'm vulnerable. this guy was kinda testing me... when i'm a bit distressed my reality testing goes out the window a little... i thought it was okay for me to confide in him a little. i thought i could trust him. he was talking to me... and it was okay... but then i didn't feel so good... and he was saying about how intimacy can be hard... and i thought i wasn't feeling so good because of my issues... then he was saying about how i find hugs hard, and can he hug me... and it takes a while for me to realise that i'm not over-reacting. something isn't right. i just feel upset because i realised that he tried to take advantage of my being vulnerable. i've learned now that he isn't safe to confide in. that was hard. i thought long and hard and i decided that he was the safest person for me to confide in. but he isn't safe. or maybe more to the point certain things are safe and certain other things aren't. my week this week... no. that wasn't safe. it is okay our friendship will survive. i did the right thing.
but there is a little bit of rage and indignation that i trusted him and... he would have been happy to abuse that. not seeing it as abuse of course. just... i don't know. i don't trust wisely sometimes. most times. ever.
> > if you upset someone then you get to comfort them :-(> Do you really deal with people who are THAT cynical and manipulative? People who would deliberately upset someone just to get to comfort them?!
yeah i don't know. past sh*t... sorry.
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 14, 2006, at 22:07:53
In reply to Re: boundaries? » pseudoname, posted by alexandra_k on October 14, 2006, at 20:42:52
Hey Alex,
I'm glad that you were able to listen to that concern inside that was saying "hey-- something's not right". That's very good.Today you sound stronger. You regret that you chose that particular person to confide in. You took a risk, and it didn't work out. He could have chosen any number of ways to betray your trust. He happened to choose a particularly inappropriate one, but at least you were firm and got yourself out of that situation.
I think there are two separate things here-
1. you took a risk and put yourself out there, and were not respected or supported. That really hurts. I'm sorry that that man was not ready to support you. Possibly you chose poorly, but at any rate, you did something that most people see as a positive step- reaching out for support IRL. It's terrible that it backfired. I'm sorry it hurts so bad.
2. you feel like you "invited" this man to take advantage of you. That makes you feel dirty. This shame is completely irrational. As I understand it, the man has a lot more to be ashamed of than you do. Furthermore, since you were able to communicate NO, and remove yourself from the situation, you should work on shifting these feelings of shame towards feeling ANGER that this man tried to take advantage of you. And you deserve a lot of credit too. You did the right thing, and you avoided many more egregious levels of victimization. You are stronger than you realize, Alex. I'm really impressed by you, because I know a lot of young women who would have ignored their inner feelings of "uh oh" and would have failed to get out of the situation before becoming physically violated. Your trust was indeed violated-- which is terrible and horrible, but I am so grateful for your boundaries.
As far as I see it, you didn't do anything very regretable. The man behaved much more inappropriately than you did. HE should feel shame. HE should feel guilt. HE should feel sad at ruining what could have been a positive friendship with you.
-Li
drank 3 pots of tea today.
Earl Grey
Dragonwell
Cinnamon Apple Herbal Teawas thinking of you :)
Posted by alexandra_k on October 15, 2006, at 0:58:35
In reply to Re: boundaries? **trigger** » alexandra_k, posted by Lindenblüte on October 14, 2006, at 22:07:53
Thanks. I do feel stronger for a couple of reasons:
1) I've managed to be able to choose to not feel victimised. That means a huge weight is lifted. I don't feel violated which helps because:
2) He is (generally speaking) a nice guy. The combination of which means that I took a measured risk in deciding to trust him. So... I'm not *completely* hopeless with that... And at the same time it didn't pay off. I didn't handle the situation in the best possible way... But I think I've learned something.I've been working today too. Things are a mess with that, rather. But plodding on and it has to be done and I feel better for that though slightly demoralised at times...
> As far as I see it, you didn't do anything very regretable. The man behaved much more inappropriately than you did. HE should feel shame. HE should feel guilt. HE should feel sad at ruining what could have been a positive friendship with you.
Yeah. The friendship isn't ruined exactly, but now I know I need to be careful with him. He isn't safe in some respects.
Thanks.
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