![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by llrrrpp on August 30, 2006, at 16:44:26
My T is funny he cracks me up. Today he told me that my fogetting to bring my medicine on a recent trip was a way for me to avoid work. Um. okay, I can buy that, but I resisted, just to see... And we talked about whether this is *actually* what happened. I said- you know I don't need "Freud" to tell me that I'm conflicted about doing my work! I KNOW that already! "NO, [ll] that wasn't Freud. THAT was Dr. [T]", in a very grandiose gesture. I started laughing so hard, and he was laughing too. I really like his sense of humor. Kind of wicked. He 'gets' my sarcasm too. Lots of people don't. And he doesn't annoy me, as I fear a lot of T's would. Grating on my nerves, trying my patience, etc. I guess I'm lucky. Still don't look forward to my appts though. Am I supposed to feel dread and anxiety as the hour nears? why does it scare me so much?
And then the bad news. I have bad news to talk to T about. Stress with my mom that's affecting my dad's delicate health [health?- how about delayed death?]. And that makes me really sad, because my mom deserves so much better. oh what the hell. I'll spill. My mom got fired soon after getting her first full-time job in 4 years since Dad got sick. And they didn't tell her why. (((Mom))). God, I'm about to cry just now, just thinking about it. Life is so cruel. Now what?
Oh, and I cried about how I can't tell my husband when I'll be ready to have a baby, because I want to have a PhD first? And I feel like all our plans as a couple and a family are resting on my ability to finish this f*cking PhD. Hmm. gee, I wonder why I'm depressed. Well. Have a baby, buy a house, get a job. When did this become so stressful? I used to look forward to this stuff.
I'm so confused. my head is hurting.
I dehydrated my head from crying so much. Why do I hate crying so much in front of T? I'm always holding back. hurts so bad to hold it back, but I do it anyways. I HATE feeling weak like that. I trust him, we work well together-- but ??
I hate being human.
-ll
Posted by sleepygirl on August 30, 2006, at 18:35:19
In reply to Ouch my head hurts, posted by llrrrpp on August 30, 2006, at 16:44:26
let it out lurpsie
too much pressure....
just drink some gatorade for the dehydration
I find it helps me feel lots better
such big goals...bound to get frustrated, can't do everything at once, but everything's important
Life can be cruel, so why not cry?
take care,
sg
Posted by Daisym on August 30, 2006, at 18:59:59
In reply to Ouch my head hurts, posted by llrrrpp on August 30, 2006, at 16:44:26
I'm sorry about your mom - she's lucky to have you care so much about her. I hope she finds another job soon. And I'm sorry to hear your dad is so ill, that is hard on everyone.
When I think about crying in therapy I think about it as crying *with* my therapist...not "in front of" him. It helps and it allows me to feel his holding and his caring, instead of thinking he is waiting for me to finish so we can move on. Only once have I accused him of "sitting over there watching me, not helping" but I said that because at the time I desperately wanted him to hold me and let me cry on his shoulder. He was hurt, said it sounded so cold. He really is pretty great about being with me at those times, he talks gently and says things like, "you need to cry, those tears have waited a long time to come out in a safe place." He could probably recite the alphabet and I'd still love it...it is his tone and how soothing he sounds.
Anyway -- (blush) I guess I'm sharing all this because you won't know how it really feels unless you give your therapist the opportunity to show you that they can make it safe enough for you to cry and feel what you really feel.
And about dreading going...still -- after 3 years(!) -- and clearly I'm hugely attached to my therapist -- I get nervous and anxious about going. It isn't about facing him - it is the mirror he holds up and the depth of pain we are plumbing. I'm never sure "who" might need to talk, even if I have a well thought out plan or list of things to talk about. Like today-- no way were we going to get around the fact that my 11-year-old was in the room. My therapist finally just asked if he could talk to her directly...
Geez, I didn't mean to make this about me. Sorry. I just wanted to tell you that therapy is REALLY hard so you aren't alone in these issues. I'm glad you found a therapist with a sense of humor. It will really help.
Posted by caraher on August 30, 2006, at 19:10:05
In reply to Ouch my head hurts, posted by llrrrpp on August 30, 2006, at 16:44:26
> Oh, and I cried about how I can't tell my husband when I'll be ready to have a baby, because I want to have a PhD first? And I feel like all our plans as a couple and a family are resting on my ability to finish this f*cking PhD. Hmm. gee, I wonder why I'm depressed. Well. Have a baby, buy a house, get a job. When did this become so stressful? I used to look forward to this stuff.
It's hard to finish a PhD... is there some special reason you need to tell him an "exact date?" Isn't just agreeing on a reasonable sequence of plans good enough? I guess I worry that you'll have trouble finishing your degree if you make it seem like too big a thing. If you're constantly thinking, "My whole future depends on getting this done soon!" that's too much pressure, as well as distorted thinking.
One nice thing about seeing a psychologist as a T when you're a grad student - they've done a PhD, too! My T used to talk about how much she hated her dissertation...
How far along are you? You might want to check out this support board for people trying to finish: http://www.phinished.org/
Posted by llrrrpp on August 30, 2006, at 20:49:01
In reply to Re: Ouch my head hurts, posted by caraher on August 30, 2006, at 19:10:05
> > Oh, and I cried about how I can't tell my husband when I'll be ready to have a baby, because I want to have a PhD first? And I feel like all our plans as a couple and a family are resting on my ability to finish this f*cking PhD. Hmm. gee, I wonder why I'm depressed. Well. Have a baby, buy a house, get a job. When did this become so stressful? I used to look forward to this stuff.
>
> It's hard to finish a PhD... is there some special reason you need to tell him an "exact date?" Isn't just agreeing on a reasonable sequence of plans good enough? I guess I worry that you'll have trouble finishing your degree if you make it seem like too big a thing. If you're constantly thinking, "My whole future depends on getting this done soon!" that's too much pressure, as well as distorted thinking.yes. the reason I need a date or an approximation is that currently I am in a long-distance relationship. Husband is in the military. I see him every few weeks for a week or two. He misses me dearly and gives me the feeling that if I were to move, everything would be all right. And I feel so guilty because I feel at some level like I'm choosing my work over my happiness. My PhD over my family. And I wonder if I'm just making things too hard just because I'm resisting...my future?
> One nice thing about seeing a psychologist as a T when you're a grad student - they've done a PhD, too! My T used to talk about how much she hated her dissertation...We haven't had that discussion (yet), but I think he has some experience working with students, so there's a lot of common vocabulary.
> How far along are you? You might want to check out this support board for people trying to finish: http://www.phinished.org/When I get to a point where I can stop crying for more than a few moments I will try to read it seriously. It looks very promising though. I know it's been suggested to me before. I'm starting to get to a point where I *want* to work again, rather than a point where I *need* to work. I will hold out for one of those moments of clarity before getting involved in meeting a new set of online folks.
Thank you so much for your kind suggestions- oh crap! I was trying to find a nice way to sign off this post and I started crying again. the kindness of strangers. gets me everytime. :o/
-ll
Posted by llrrrpp on August 30, 2006, at 21:04:30
In reply to Re: Ouch my head hurts » llrrrpp, posted by Daisym on August 30, 2006, at 18:59:59
> I'm sorry about your mom - she's lucky to have you care so much about her. I hope she finds another job soon. And I'm sorry to hear your dad is so ill, that is hard on everyone.
yeah. this topic... been taking up a lot of real estate in my psyche.
> When I think about crying in therapy I think about it as crying *with* my therapist...not "in front of" him. It helps and it allows me to feel his holding and his caring, instead of thinking he is waiting for me to finish so we can move on. Only once have I accused him of "sitting over there watching me, not helping" but I said that because at the time I desperately wanted him to hold me and let me cry on his shoulder. He was hurt, said it sounded so cold. He really is pretty great about being with me at those times, he talks gently and says things like, "you need to cry, those tears have waited a long time to come out in a safe place." He could probably recite the alphabet and I'd still love it...it is his tone and how soothing he sounds.
That's really nice, Daisy. I'm glad that your T can help you like that. I wonder if my T has that in his repertoire. I'm not sure... I did notice that in the moment where I went from fluent speech to tear choked words he totally paused and just waited, which was nice. Since he's gotten to know me a bit better, there haven't been a lot of big pauses like that. Actually, now that I think about it, his body language changed too. He put both feet on the floor and leaned towards me a little bit. I think my session went about 10 minutes long too. A lot of stuff this afternoon.
>
> Anyway -- (blush) I guess I'm sharing all this because you won't know how it really feels unless you give your therapist the opportunity to show you that they can make it safe enough for you to cry and feel what you really feel.Yes. It's true. I can only cry comfortably in front of a very few people, and T is not among them. (disclaimer- for me, crying is rarely comfortable, but at least the act of crying doesn't cause any additional distress in front of my husband, or, once upon a time, my mom)
> And about dreading going...still -- after 3 years(!) -- and clearly I'm hugely attached to my therapist -- I get nervous and anxious about going. It isn't about facing him - it is the mirror he holds up and the depth of pain we are plumbing.
I'm so glad to hear this. I feel like such a neophyte to all of this stuff. And to hear posts on the psych. board about therapist love and people who see their T's several times a week, and who have spent years together-- well, I just felt like I'm not really passionate or emotional or? suited to do therapy. I'm glad to know I'm not alone. Sometimes I feel so small and vulnerable when I check in for my appt. Takes me at least 5 minutes (or a few weeks) to get over my therapy terror. Once I had an anxiety attack. Seriously. I never had an anxiety attack at the dentist's office, or the gyno? Why T?
Would it be easier if I lied and pretended that everything was fine? made up a little song and dance every week? stored up the memorably amusing, trite things that happened for easy and non-emotional regurgitation? Am I only bringing up the dredges because I like to suffer?
I've got issues today. man. I'm in some kind of psycho mood.
Well, thanks for your kind feedback. Your words mean a lot to me, especially since they come from your experience.
yours,
-ll
Posted by llrrrpp on August 30, 2006, at 21:10:40
In reply to Re: Ouch my head hurts » llrrrpp, posted by sleepygirl on August 30, 2006, at 18:35:19
I'm crying Sleepy. Can't stop, in fact.
I even went to get gelato on the way home from work. I still felt glum.
And I've been crying intermittently for a few hours now. Have been trying to sustain adequate fluid intake, but I have no appetite tonight.
I think the headache is from caffeine withdrawal. last 8 days or so I've had at least a coffee and a cola every day. Today no caffeine, except for small doses of therapeutic chocolate.
I took an Aleve. That usually stops such headaches from migraining, but I'm kind of worried that the light sensitivity and nausea are starting to become more prominent.
Well, that will distract me from my leaking tear ducts at least.
A most inconvenient thing is that my roomate is busy around the apt, picking things up, and so to be constantly dabbing my eyes and nose is kind of suspicious. I have had to "use the restroom" several times in the midst of the current babblebinge. soon I should be getting to bed. maybe an ice pack on my temples.
sh*t. I'm such a dumbass. i should have had a coke at lunch instead of water. i ruined my evening. barf.
-ll
Posted by muffled on August 30, 2006, at 22:39:09
In reply to Re: Ouch my head hurts » Daisym, posted by llrrrpp on August 30, 2006, at 21:04:30
well, I just felt like I'm not really passionate or emotional or? suited to do therapy. I'm glad to know I'm not alone. Sometimes I feel so small and vulnerable when I check in for my appt. Takes me at least 5 minutes (or a few weeks) to get over my therapy terror. Once I had an anxiety attack. Seriously. I never had an anxiety attack at the dentist's office, or the gyno? Why T?
***Yeah, my T says I have an anxiety attack practically everytime I go. But it passes.
Last week I came in and headed for the bathroom, and she popped out and said come on in when your done. Well, like the meathead I am I sat in the hallway around the corner where it was dark, and listened to a song that helps me feel safer on my mp3 player. She came looking for me. I felt SO DUMB!!! She just smiled.Would it be easier if I lied and pretended that everything was fine? made up a little song and dance every week? stored up the memorably amusing, trite things that happened for easy and non-emotional regurgitation? Am I only bringing up the dredges because I like to suffer?
***OH MAN ! You are on the same thot train as I.
Actually, as part of our song and dance at sessions, she usu asks 'how are you' (as I squirm in my chair not looking at her), I ALWAYS say 'fine'.
I am SO freakin ridiculous. If I was fine I wouldn't be there.
And I never have waterineye. Cuz that would be bad. I dunno why. I just know it would be very, very bad.
Sometimes my T will get a bit of waterineye, and it freaks me, cuz I don't know why its there. But mostly I won't even look at her.
At the beginning of session she often reads to me a short devotional type thing. THATS when I sneak a good look at her to see if she looks like SHE is ok.
I am SO RIDICULOUS.
I am a grown woman.
Yeah. So I feeling kinda wacked too.
I gonna send my T an e-mail that says I ain't gonna say nuttin more.
Nothing, nothing, nothing.
She can just read, and I can peek out under my hat at her, and for a bit of time, feel kinda safer somehow? Dunno whats that about.
Verbose aren't I?
Your post just so got me.
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by Tabitha on August 31, 2006, at 1:21:37
In reply to Ouch my head hurts, posted by llrrrpp on August 30, 2006, at 16:44:26
> I dehydrated my head from crying so much.
I wish my head would dehydrate from crying. Instead my eyes turn into giant swollen puffballs.
>
> I hate being human.
>
> -llYou are a lovely specimen of humanity. I'm so glad you're human in this life. Although, I'll bet you'd make a really cool cat, too.
Posted by llrrrpp on August 31, 2006, at 8:52:00
In reply to Re: Ouch my head hurts » llrrrpp, posted by Tabitha on August 31, 2006, at 1:21:37
tabitha,
one of my dreams is to do enough good deeds that I will be reincarnated as a pampered housecat.I would love my cat's life. naps on sunny window sills. massages, fish. beds to sleep in, and people to wiggle shoestrings in my direction until I give up from chasing them. and then repeat that all over again.
I'm convinced that my cat is some kind of reincarnated singer. She has a bell-like soprano miow, and an incredible repertoire of chirps, trills, growls and purrs. She has one particular duet that we sing together. She knows it's her song, and if I start singing it, she'll join in. She craves the applause when it's over after 4 lines.
-llllllll
tabbitha, your post made me smile a bit. thank you . i needed that.
Posted by daisym on August 31, 2006, at 12:43:33
In reply to Re: Ouch my head hurts » Daisym, posted by llrrrpp on August 30, 2006, at 21:04:30
****Once I had an anxiety attack. Seriously. I never had an anxiety attack at the dentist's office, or the gyno? Why T?
****I can only guess, but if you are anything like me, the anxiety comes from knowing you are going to be face with those darn *feelings* and not just your thoughts. I can think my way out of most anything -- especially when I can figure out what the other person wants from me. But in therapy, all he wants is the truth and he wants my inner dialogue to be shared in as much an unedited fashion as possible. Now this unnerves me -- what if he gets mad at what I say? What if I make him sad? What if...(there are thousands of these questions.) So my anxiety comes from what I'm about to say, do and feel. The irony is that it is self-chosen torture. *sigh*
****Would it be easier if I lied and pretended that everything was fine? made up a little song and dance every week? stored up the memorably amusing, trite things that happened for easy and non-emotional regurgitation? Am I only bringing up the dredges because I like to suffer?
I'm going to channel my therapist for you here: "most people do not come singing and dancing into therapy. Those people don't need me. What purpose would it serve for you to come in and pretend everything is fine? Why would you want to do that? This IS the place to dredge stuff up - this is where it is safe to feel it and talk about it and explore it. I KNOW you are a capable, smart, funny person. That isn't why you are here." He makes a lot of sense and believe me, we have this conversation about every six months where I say things like, "you must think people are nuts to trust me to work with their kids, or run a company." He always shakes his head and says he knows about the competent part. But he wants to hear from the other parts. And I am so relieved.
I hear this work gets easier. I hope so...
Posted by llrrrpp on August 31, 2006, at 13:07:18
In reply to Re: Ouch my head hurts » llrrrpp, posted by daisym on August 31, 2006, at 12:43:33
I woke up this morning with the headache, but then I took few steps around the dark room and decided that I was still alive, and the headache gradually dissapated.
I wrote out a lot of my mental maelstrom yesterday evening. Then I sent it away. I felt better, somehow.
And I must have worked on it in my sleep, because things seem more orderly upstairs.
I'm only troubled that I cannot remember many of the things I was feeling. I'm not sure if that's because the feelings have been dealt with, or if it's because I've just found another filing drawer to stuff them in for the time being. I mean, how did I PROCESS the feelings? and can I trust my mind to file them in the right place when my consciousness goes off duty?
-ll
thanks babblers for responding to my misery yesterday. still fragile, but still here too.
Posted by llrrrpp on August 31, 2006, at 15:18:43
In reply to Re: Ouch my head hurts » llrrrpp, posted by muffled on August 30, 2006, at 22:39:09
> ***Yeah, my T says I have an anxiety attack practically everytime I go. But it passes.
> Last week I came in and headed for the bathroom, and she popped out and said come on in when your done. Well, like the meathead I am I sat in the hallway around the corner where it was dark, and listened to a song that helps me feel safer on my mp3 player. She came looking for me. I felt SO DUMB!!! She just smiled.nice. I like that.
>
> ***OH MAN ! You are on the same thot train as I.
> Actually, as part of our song and dance at sessions, she usu asks 'how are you' (as I squirm in my chair not looking at her), I ALWAYS say 'fine'.
> I am SO freakin ridiculous. If I was fine I wouldn't be there.
> And I never have waterineye. Cuz that would be bad. I dunno why. I just know it would be very, very bad.
> Sometimes my T will get a bit of waterineye, and it freaks me, cuz I don't know why its there. But mostly I won't even look at her.
> At the beginning of session she often reads to me a short devotional type thing. THATS when I sneak a good look at her to see if she looks like SHE is ok.
> I am SO RIDICULOUS.
> I am a grown woman.
> Yeah. So I feeling kinda wacked too.
> I gonna send my T an e-mail that says I ain't gonna say nuttin more.
> Nothing, nothing, nothing.
> She can just read, and I can peek out under my hat at her, and for a bit of time, feel kinda safer somehow? Dunno whats that about.
> Verbose aren't I?
> Your post just so got me.
> Take care,
> Muffled
>
>Mufflie, if it weren't so true, it wouldn't be funny and tragic at the same time. Muffled, I will think of you next time I approach the dreaded edifice. next time I feel like procrastinating until literally the last second. arriving just in the nick of time. Can I come in the window or something? avoid the whole check-in protocol? I'd happily teletransport to therapy. Upload myself on the T's server and he can download me when he feels he can do some work with me.
Oh god. I just sent him an email. first one since May. now I'm on high alert for stuff in my inbox.
give me a wooden spoon, and I'll show him the appropriate tool to scoop out my brains. e-mail is not suited to brain scooping at all.
((((who am I hugging? I'm not "feeling" today, remember?))))
no offense Muffled, I turned off my emotions in my sleep yesterday. woke up in no pain, and no happiness either. Just a lump of carbon. Sea slugs have more emotions than I do today.
Posted by muffled on August 31, 2006, at 18:06:19
In reply to Re: Ouch my head hurts » muffled, posted by llrrrpp on August 31, 2006, at 15:18:43
Ahhhhhhhhhhh
No emotions day.
I do that too.
Feels good.
Feels normal.
I think its ok to give ourselves a break now and then.
Yup.
Thats funny you do the I'm not gonna have any emotions thing too!!!
Take care,
No emots. , no hugs!
This robot muffly sending best wishes to carbon lllrp.
:-|
Posted by curtm on August 31, 2006, at 20:10:40
In reply to My head stopped hurting, posted by llrrrpp on August 31, 2006, at 13:07:18
I regret that I wasn't there for support yesterday. sigh. I am glad you are feeling better today, though.
When my head hurts, I usually drop something heavy on my toe to make the pain go elsewhere. I think your way of coping makes much more sense.
Posted by llrrrpp on August 31, 2006, at 21:05:32
In reply to Re: My head stopped hurting » llrrrpp, posted by curtm on August 31, 2006, at 20:10:40
Um, folks,
this is not a good way of "coping"
I'm seriously concerned that I f*cked up my brain's hardwiring. I can't feel happy sad scared... just nothing. empty.
I feel completely disconnected from any sense of what it is to be human. doesn't feel normal to me. it freaks me out even more than uncontrolled sobbing, to tell you the truth. At least I've done uncontrolled sobbing before. I have an associates degree and an Artist's Diploma in uncontrolled sobbing. The Vulcan thing is really unexpected. What happens when I wake up tomorrow? will I be laughing hysterically? will I be catatonic?
Even when I was depressed, I felt like I knew myself. Now- who is this freak? she's got my memories stored on her hard drive. She's got my reflection in the mirror. But she doesn't have my soul. Everytime I attmept to access an emotion "Access Denied" or an emotional memory, like playing Meditation from Thais at the funeral "Site not Found" "Connection Failed"
Okay, so I'm not "suffering" in the traditional sense of the word, because that would require some kind of emotional valence. nope. This is a new experience for me. try it sometime folks. Poison your limbic system with excess cortisol (that comes from trauma) and god knows whatever other chemistry my brain has pickled itself in these last few days. Now that your limbic system is shrivelled, try to do something rewarding, like achieving a goal. Doesn't feel like anything. Or something painful, like a deliberate trigger to your worst trauma. short circuited. you fired a blank.
does this pass too?
what if everything passes? what's left?
-ll
Posted by llrrrpp on August 31, 2006, at 21:29:04
In reply to Re: My head stopped hurting » llrrrpp, posted by curtm on August 31, 2006, at 20:10:40
> I regret that I wasn't there for support yesterday. sigh.
who says you weren't there? I beg to differ. remember that what you post on Babble is there for eternity. And maybe you wrote something another time that I remembered and helped me through the afternoon-evening.
"you can feel good if you want to. I know you can"
you wrote that, remember? or this one?
"((((((tabloids))))))"
brings a smile to my face every time. It's what I needed, when I needed it. thanks (((curtm))). you're a good babble buddy, even after I give you a hard time for not taking your meds the other day.
tabloids- the cheapest cure for the blues? Very likely. requires very little cognitive ability to appreciate. cheap, abundantly available without a prescription, and full of bright colors and people who are worse off than you will ever be. I think that they should be in everyone's waiting rooms when they go see T.
-ll
Posted by sunnydays on August 31, 2006, at 22:00:51
In reply to Re: My head stopped hurting » curtm, posted by llrrrpp on August 31, 2006, at 21:29:04
I hate that feeling of not feeling anything. I struggle with it a lot myself. I told my T recently that if I could just feel SOMETHING I would feel better. He agreed, but said that the feeling will come when I'm ready for it. He said the body has ways of protecting you from feeling what you're not ready for and that if I felt what I needed to right now it would be overwhelming. Basically, be patient and it would come. But I completely understand the feeling. I almost want something bad to happen or the depression to come back so I can feel something. Even being distressed would be better than this feeling of nothingness that it seems like nothing can touch.
sunnydays
Posted by curtm on August 31, 2006, at 22:39:56
In reply to Re: My head stopped hurting, posted by llrrrpp on August 31, 2006, at 21:05:32
>>what if everything passes? what's left?
tomorrow...(a better tomorrow)
Posted by llrrrpp on August 31, 2006, at 22:45:37
In reply to Re: My head stopped hurting » llrrrpp, posted by curtm on August 31, 2006, at 22:39:56
> >>what if everything passes? what's left?
>
> tomorrow...(a better tomorrow)In that spirit, I'm off to bed.
early work tomorrow.
-ll
Posted by happyflower on September 2, 2006, at 14:39:32
In reply to Re: My head stopped hurting » curtm, posted by llrrrpp on August 31, 2006, at 22:45:37
Hi Llrrrppy!
Sorry you are feeling bad or whatever you are feeling. My head hurts too, what is it babble sickness? (((((llrrrpp)))) Take care of you , okay.
Posted by llrrrpp on September 2, 2006, at 14:49:58
In reply to Re: My head stopped hurting, posted by happyflower on September 2, 2006, at 14:39:32
Sun came out. Bus broke down. I get to switch offices. My wrist is aching from carrying files. Dust bunnies are doomed.
But the real news is that I'm back to feeling. And I'm back to feeling okay now. My guess is that somewhere out there in this big world there is someone who needs a little bit of your loving, so set forth, and find them, and know that your well wishes, your queries and your stories did good (amused me, distracted me, made me laugh, made me cry, and made me pass the time.
Maybe I just needed to be heard. Maybe it takes more than one soul to process this woman's sorrows.
My T is mum. he didn't respond to my e-mails. He doesn't really respond to e-mails, except for one exceptional circumstance. and the agony this week was not life-threatening. Sometimes I think he's jaded from working at state mental institution. Probably thinks I'm a wimp. Well. I probably do have a low threshold for psychological pain. [I'll make a note to add that to the list of things to hate about llrrrpp]
So, to babblers- thanks for hearing me and saying you were there. It means a lot.
-ll
This is the end of the thread.
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