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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by annierose on August 9, 2006, at 16:06:12
In reply to Re: The strangest things bother me » Dinah, posted by Poet on August 9, 2006, at 9:22:36
I can't believe your Ts do not have a waste basket. I do cry, at least once a week, and thankfully I found her waste basket by her desk. Since I lie down, I'm over on that side of the office, so it's an easy pitch for me.
Dinah - I can't believe he put the tissues back in either. At least you know he feels comfortable around you to act just like he does at home. The stories his wife could tell you ...
Posted by littleone on August 9, 2006, at 21:25:25
In reply to Re: The strangest things bother me » Jost, posted by Dinah on August 9, 2006, at 13:39:31
> Although once, this very fastidious man rubbed at something on his shoe, then licked his finger, and rubbed again. And I was really curious as to why it was ok to put in his mouth something that was too offensive to remain on his shoe. :)
You make me smile. You have such a special way of looking at things. Although I must admit the rubbing your eye on the floor comment still gives me the heeby jeebies. Eyeballs freak me out a little.
Posted by Jost on August 9, 2006, at 21:41:02
In reply to Re: The strangest things bother me » Jost, posted by Dinah on August 9, 2006, at 13:39:31
> Although once, this very fastidious man rubbed at something on his shoe, then licked his finger, and rubbed again. And I was really curious as to why it was ok to put in his mouth something that was too offensive to remain on his shoe. :)
>
>Yuck!! Are you sure it was the same finger? If so, maybe he's not as fastidious as you suppose?
I do like the way you pose the question, though. Quite a conundrum :)
Jost
Posted by Dinah on August 9, 2006, at 22:46:08
In reply to Re: The strangest things bother me, posted by Jost on August 9, 2006, at 21:41:02
Same finger. :)
I was watching in complete fascination.
Posted by Dinah on August 9, 2006, at 22:47:03
In reply to Re: The strangest things bother me » Dinah, posted by littleone on August 9, 2006, at 21:25:25
I'm sure my hypothetical lids were closed in the crying position. No eyeballs. :)
Posted by Dinah on August 9, 2006, at 23:33:41
In reply to Re: The strangest things bother me Dinah » Poet, posted by annierose on August 9, 2006, at 16:06:12
I think I know quite enough. :)
Posted by cecilia on August 10, 2006, at 7:59:14
In reply to Re: The strangest things bother me Dinah » Poet, posted by annierose on August 9, 2006, at 16:06:12
A T without a wastebasket?!!!!!!! That's a pretty clear message-I don't want to see your feelings. After the long term T I saw for 7 years (who at least, like most T's, did have a wastebasket by the client's chair) got sick of me I saw a few T's for short periods trying to see if I could imagine one being able to help me get over the excruciating feeling of abandonment. I'd forgotten until this thread one of the reasons I didn't trust one of the many lousy T's I saw-her wastebasket was across the room and to pay her you had to go through the humiliation of walking across the room holding dozens of soggy Kleenexes. T's never do anything by accident. It was pretty obvious that she didn't spend $10 on a 2nd wastebasket because she didn't want to deal with tears. Cecilia
Posted by cecilia on August 10, 2006, at 8:11:47
In reply to Re: The strangest things bother me Dinah, posted by cecilia on August 10, 2006, at 7:59:14
I mean the wastebasket, like the hundreds of boxes of Kleenex the average T must buy each year, would even have been tax-deductible! I wonder if the IRS has a standard amount they expect a T to deduct for Kleenex?
Dinah, your T's little habits definitely would turn my stomach!
Anyone remember the old Ellen show where Ellen happened to see her T peeing in the parking lot?
Cecilia
Posted by Jost on August 10, 2006, at 11:42:17
In reply to Re: The strangest things bother me Dinah, posted by cecilia on August 10, 2006, at 8:11:47
> I mean the wastebasket, like the hundreds of boxes of Kleenex the average T must buy each year, would even have been tax-deductible! I wonder if the IRS has a standard amount they expect a T to deduct for Kleenex?
>
> Dinah, your T's little habits definitely would turn my stomach!
>
> Anyone remember the old Ellen show where Ellen happened to see her T peeing in the parking lot?
>
> Cecilia
>
Cecelia, let's look on the plus side. Maybe the T with the wastebasket across the room was trying to help Ps improve their eye-hand coordination?My T told me that his first training analyst didn't have a bathroom. (At least not one that Ps could use.) And you had to sit in the hall waiting for her.
And when he asked one time about a bathroom,, she told him he should go before he came. Then he wouldn't need one while there! And this was a training analyst at a wellknown Psychoanalytic Institute! Whom he saw for several years.
I'm pretty sure he went to another training analyst on his own, afterward, to try to undo the damage she did.
What a world.
Jost
Posted by Dinah on August 10, 2006, at 13:52:05
In reply to Re: The strangest things bother me Dinah, posted by cecilia on August 10, 2006, at 8:11:47
> Anyone remember the old Ellen show where Ellen happened to see her T peeing in the parking lot?
>
> Cecilia
>lol. No, but I'm tempted to buy all of Season 4 just to see it.
I know my therapist's human, but I don't think I EVER need to know he's that human.
About the trashcan, I think there's one somewhere in his room. I just don't know where it is, and it's not convenient to the sofa or chairs. I don't think it's because he doesn't want me to cry. He encourages me to express my emotions. I think it's more that he doesn't think of these things. Neither did I really.
Posted by Dinah on August 10, 2006, at 16:00:55
In reply to Re: The strangest things bother me Dinah, posted by cecilia on August 10, 2006, at 8:11:47
I do remember the episode of "The Nanny" where Fran Fine sees her therapist picking his nose at a movie.
Posted by Tamar on August 10, 2006, at 18:06:00
In reply to The strangest things bother me, posted by Dinah on August 8, 2006, at 11:55:57
I don’t usually cry in therapy, and anyway I always have kleenex in my purse. But my therapist sneezes almost every session. He must have allergies or something. So he uses lots of kleenex and the trash can is over on his side of the room. But on one occasion recently I actually used kleenex from his box, and he moved his arm towards me as if he was going to put out his hand to take it from me. I tried so hard not to laugh. It was almost enough to start up a mother transference…
I agree that not washing your hair seems like more of an indication of your mood than anything else. I would be quite interested to know what your hair symbolises in your relationship with your therapist. I know you’ve mentioned before that he suggested you could dye it. And wasn’t there another therapist who disapproved of your braids?
I think women’s hair is often seen as a symbol of femininity, sexuality, and above all conformity. Have you ever seen the Salpetriere photos of ‘hysterical’ women taken by Charcot and his cronies? Wild, unkempt hair suggested not just an untamed personality, but also an untamed sexuality. It just wasn’t how women were supposed to wear their hair. Any woman who would permit herself to be photographed with her hair like that had to be ill, or so the theory went. Hair is perceived as an expression of the psyche.
I wonder if your therapist disapproves of the way you wear your hair, and perhaps sees your lack of hair hygiene as an aspect of a kind of ‘rebellion’ against conformity. And who knows, maybe there’s something in that, though I expect it’s more complex than it seems. Calling it passive aggressive seems like overstating the case. Unconventional it may be. But passive aggressive? Really? I just don’t see it.
Do you think it’s possible that your hair is something that belongs in a way to Emotional Dinah?
I don’t know what I’m talking about, of course, so please feel free to ignore me.
Tamar
Posted by Jost on August 10, 2006, at 22:34:39
In reply to Re: The strangest things bother me » Dinah, posted by Tamar on August 10, 2006, at 18:06:00
Where's his clock? Can you see it, too? I find that where Ts keep their clocks can be maddening.
I went to one whose clock I could never locate. I would watch where he looked very carefully, to try to figure out where the thing was.
I could absolutely never catch him looking anywhere. I mean he just never would look away form me, toward the end
Finally, after ages of searching around, I realized it was on a shelf Right Behind My Head. I mean, slightly to one side, literally an inch from my right ear.
I couldn't get it out of my mind-- that he had set up this elaborate ruse--so while he appeared to be listening with rapt attention, he could be staring right past me at the clock just watching the seconds count down.
Jost
Posted by cecilia on August 11, 2006, at 6:26:25
In reply to Re: The strangest things bother me, posted by Jost on August 10, 2006, at 22:34:39
I think the clock behind the client is a standard ruse they teach in T school. But I just can't believe these T's who don't think of providing Kleenex or wastebaskets. Don't they expect tears? That's like a surgeon not expecting blood. I had 632 sessions with my ex-t before she gave up on me. Probably at least 20 tissues a session, 12,640 over 7 years. At 200 in a box, that's 63 boxes. About the cost of one session. Though maybe they have a discount rate for T's. Someone should open a business, discount tissues boxes for T's printed with positive affirmations... Cecilia
Posted by Dinah on August 11, 2006, at 8:07:58
In reply to Re: The strangest things bother me » Dinah, posted by Tamar on August 10, 2006, at 18:06:00
I'm going to ask him exactly who I'm being passive aggressive to. I didn't like the example he gave to show what he meant. :( But I can't see who he was referring to as the target.
I do know he's been fussing at me lately because I told him I hate my body, but it didn't really affect how I thought of myself, because I don't really think of my body as being part of myself. I think my actual words were to ask if it was ok to hate my body as long as I didn't hate myself. He understood instantly what I meant, but he's really been annoyed or upset about it, or something. He keeps bringing it up in all sorts of contexts. Perhaps he means I'm being passive aggressive to the body I hate. Can you be passive aggressive to your body?
I've long known he's slightly repelled by my physical appearance and my style of presentation. He's so fastidious and very trendy. But the thing is that I have reasons for a lot of what I do. It's not just to look odd. I wear my hair in braids or a ponytail because in my latter years I find the feel of hair touching my face or neck unpleasant. I wear Keds because with my diabetes and water retention, I find most shoes unbearably uncomfortable. And I like long skirts because I like the freedom of skirts, but hate to worry about crossing my legs. I let comfort trump style because I'd rather feel good than look good.
But I have cute Keds and pretty long skirts, and love to dress up my pulled back hair in hair baubles. I guess in my own way, I try.
Ok, the pink and yellow I can't excuse. But by the time the enthusiasm passed, my closet was full of it and I wasn't about to spend more money.
Posted by Tamar on August 11, 2006, at 10:37:17
In reply to Re: The strangest things bother me » Tamar, posted by Dinah on August 11, 2006, at 8:07:58
> I'm going to ask him exactly who I'm being passive aggressive to. I didn't like the example he gave to show what he meant. :( But I can't see who he was referring to as the target.
Yeah, ask him. I can’t think what he means by it… Also, maybe there’s a difference between not bothering to wash your hair and deliberately choosing to have manky hair. It sounds to me like you’re talking about the former. The latter might be passive aggressive towards human society, I suppose.
> I do know he's been fussing at me lately because I told him I hate my body, but it didn't really affect how I thought of myself, because I don't really think of my body as being part of myself. I think my actual words were to ask if it was ok to hate my body as long as I didn't hate myself. He understood instantly what I meant, but he's really been annoyed or upset about it, or something. He keeps bringing it up in all sorts of contexts. Perhaps he means I'm being passive aggressive to the body I hate. Can you be passive aggressive to your body?
I use my body as a locus of self blame. I guess I know my body is part of me but I don’t want it to be. I also don’t think of it as hating myself. My therapist thinks it would be healthier if I were to see my body as part of myself and then perhaps I could be less abusive to it. And then I think: I wouldn’t be this abusive to anyone else’s body. It must be part of me. I suspect I abuse it because that’s what I think it’s for. And if I can be aggressive to my body, then I can probably be passive aggressive to it. But I still don’t see that not bothering to wash one’s hair could be passive aggressive. Passive aggression towards my body might be something like not bothering to take my glucophage or insulin as a way of expressing resentment about my diabetes. Well, that’s just my two cents.
> I've long known he's slightly repelled by my physical appearance and my style of presentation. He's so fastidious and very trendy. But the thing is that I have reasons for a lot of what I do. It's not just to look odd. I wear my hair in braids or a ponytail because in my latter years I find the feel of hair touching my face or neck unpleasant.
I don’t see that your appearance should be described as odd. Who decides how we’re supposed to dress or wear our hair? We don’t all have to be dedicated followers of fashion. I assume you don’t want to cut your hair short to keep it off your neck, so braids are the obvious answer. I can understand that. I used to wear my hair in a ponytail all the time and then I cut it shorter because even the ponytail annoyed me.
> I wear Keds because with my diabetes and water retention, I find most shoes unbearably uncomfortable.
Yeah. I know what you mean. I don’t have the water retention thing, but I can’t wear girly shoes any more. I need lace-up flats. And socks. Having said that, I find birkenstocks very comfortable. They’re not cheap, but they last forever. And I don’t need to wear socks with them.
> And I like long skirts because I like the freedom of skirts, but hate to worry about crossing my legs. I let comfort trump style because I'd rather feel good than look good.
I feel more free in trousers than skirts, but I like nice stretchy corduroy trousers, especially if they have buttons instead of a zip. I haven’t worn short skirts since I was 26, but I really like long denim skirts. And they look good with comfy foorwear.
> But I have cute Keds and pretty long skirts, and love to dress up my pulled back hair in hair baubles. I guess in my own way, I try.
Well, that doesn’t sound passive aggressive, does it?
> Ok, the pink and yellow I can't excuse. But by the time the enthusiasm passed, my closet was full of it and I wasn't about to spend more money.The pink and yellow thing might be more noticeable than other things you mentioned. I used to know a girl who wore only purple, and actually it was quite striking. But I realise that my own clothes don’t vary all that much. I wear pink, purple, brown, black, cream and charcoal grey. I don’t have anything yellow, orange or green. It’s because (yes, I know this sounds crazy) I find pink and purple clothes stretchier and more comfortable than green and yellow clothes.
I dunno. With my shape I look pretty awful in most clothes. I think I actually look better naked than dressed. I’m 250 pounds at the moment, but most of that is tummy. I look about 15 months pregnant. I don’t think western clothes suit me at all. I’d like to wear a shalwar kameez or a sari or something; I think they’d look better on my shape. But that would be making a statement too…
What about brown? Do you like brown? It goes really well with both pink and yellow…
Posted by Jost on August 11, 2006, at 12:25:02
In reply to Re: The strangest things bother me » Tamar, posted by Dinah on August 11, 2006, at 8:07:58
You said you only wash you hair before seeing him or a physician.
So you seem to want to look better to/for him and your doctor.
Then I guess you don't want to look better for other people? That could be seen as a subtle expression of aggression
Or you're trying to get a better reaction from him/the doctor, so you;'re disguising the (hypothetical) expression of anger or aggression that you show to others. ?
Why do you say he's repelled by you? That sounds so extreme. I actually can't imagine that that's true.
Maybe you aren't exactly his cup of tea (or maybe secretly, you are)-- but repelled? Maybe you;re repelled, but I don't think he is.
Don't believe it. (Sorry, hate to be so definitive, maybe you're right--)
Jost
Posted by Jost on August 11, 2006, at 16:21:57
In reply to Re: The strangest things bother me, posted by cecilia on August 11, 2006, at 6:26:25
Gee, Cecelia, I didn't know they taught that.
He's the only T who had a clock there.
The other thing I didn't like was that there was no way that I could tell the time.
Sometimes I don't care, but other times, I want to know, and I"d rather not look at my watch (if I wore one, which Ihaven't been).
It was also how close it was to my head that was weird. I can't explain, but the placement was definitely odd.
Jost
Posted by Dinah on August 11, 2006, at 17:19:58
In reply to Re: The strangest things bother me, posted by Jost on August 11, 2006, at 12:25:02
We talked about this today. It was my favorite sort of session. Lighthearted and teasing, but we still got a lot of work done. I told him about the spot on his shoe, and he laughed a lot.
I talked about how his trendiness and fastidious grooming intimidate me, however much I might also find it amusing. And about how in the early days of our therapy, I was aware that he thought less of me for my style of dress, and not wearing makeup. I forget the loadedness of the term repelled. I meant it in the literal sense of feeling like he was pushed away by it, drew back. He didn't deny it, said he didn't recall anything so long ago, but said our relationship is now so much deeper than surface appearance, and he wasn't at all affected by how I look. I didn't argue the point much, but even if I believe him now and I do, it's hard to remove the overlay of my memories.
He swore I look nothing like my mother, although I once showed him a picture of her around my age, and he thought it was me. He never remembers these things.
I think it's a lot easier to slide into poor grooming when I'm not feeling better, because my perception is that it doesn't matter much anyway. People have been telling me I look like my mother since my early thirties. Although how they thought that was an acceptable comment to make, I'm not sure. Since no matter what I do, I look like my mother, why bother to do much at all? Even at my best, I just put in enough time for the basics in being well scrubbed.
Quite a face to share with the world, even if my hair is clean. :(
Posted by Dinah on August 11, 2006, at 17:33:28
In reply to Re: The strangest things bother me » Dinah, posted by Tamar on August 11, 2006, at 10:37:17
> > I'm going to ask him exactly who I'm being passive aggressive to. I didn't like the example he gave to show what he meant. :( But I can't see who he was referring to as the target.
>
> Yeah, ask him. I can’t think what he means by it… Also, maybe there’s a difference between not bothering to wash your hair and deliberately choosing to have manky hair. It sounds to me like you’re talking about the former. The latter might be passive aggressive towards human society, I suppose.He says he meant mainly to myself, and maybe to my husband if he objected.
> > I do know he's been fussing at me lately because I told him I hate my body, but it didn't really affect how I thought of myself, because I don't really think of my body as being part of myself. I think my actual words were to ask if it was ok to hate my body as long as I didn't hate myself. He understood instantly what I meant, but he's really been annoyed or upset about it, or something. He keeps bringing it up in all sorts of contexts. Perhaps he means I'm being passive aggressive to the body I hate. Can you be passive aggressive to your body?
>
> I use my body as a locus of self blame. I guess I know my body is part of me but I don’t want it to be. I also don’t think of it as hating myself. My therapist thinks it would be healthier if I were to see my body as part of myself and then perhaps I could be less abusive to it. And then I think: I wouldn’t be this abusive to anyone else’s body. It must be part of me. I suspect I abuse it because that’s what I think it’s for. And if I can be aggressive to my body, then I can probably be passive aggressive to it. But I still don’t see that not bothering to wash one’s hair could be passive aggressive. Passive aggression towards my body might be something like not bothering to take my glucophage or insulin as a way of expressing resentment about my diabetes. Well, that’s just my two cents.I'm lousy at taking my blood sugar readings. :) But I take my pills. I think I claim moral ownership of my body, which is why I do feel free to hurt myself. But my therapist agrees with yours. He thinks it's easier for me to abuse myself if I don't feel ownership of my body, and I hate it as well. I'm not sure it's true about self injury. I'm pretty sure that's just anxiety management. But it may be true about other things.
> > I've long known he's slightly repelled by my physical appearance and my style of presentation. He's so fastidious and very trendy. But the thing is that I have reasons for a lot of what I do. It's not just to look odd. I wear my hair in braids or a ponytail because in my latter years I find the feel of hair touching my face or neck unpleasant.
>
> I don’t see that your appearance should be described as odd. Who decides how we’re supposed to dress or wear our hair? We don’t all have to be dedicated followers of fashion. I assume you don’t want to cut your hair short to keep it off your neck, so braids are the obvious answer. I can understand that. I used to wear my hair in a ponytail all the time and then I cut it shorter because even the ponytail annoyed me.I wish I could wear my hair short. I've been dreaming of it all summer. I haven't colored my hair for a year, and there's a visible line. I'd like to chop it off at that line. But my hair, described generously, is baby fine. Described less generously it's thin and lank. Short hair flops into my face and neck. Oh, how I wish for thick wavy hair that would stay away from my face. My husband and son have fabulous thick wavy hair.
>
> > I wear Keds because with my diabetes and water retention, I find most shoes unbearably uncomfortable.
>
> Yeah. I know what you mean. I don’t have the water retention thing, but I can’t wear girly shoes any more. I need lace-up flats. And socks. Having said that, I find birkenstocks very comfortable. They’re not cheap, but they last forever. And I don’t need to wear socks with them.I walk right out of them. :( Literally.
>
> > And I like long skirts because I like the freedom of skirts, but hate to worry about crossing my legs. I let comfort trump style because I'd rather feel good than look good.
>
> I feel more free in trousers than skirts, but I like nice stretchy corduroy trousers, especially if they have buttons instead of a zip. I haven’t worn short skirts since I was 26, but I really like long denim skirts. And they look good with comfy foorwear.
>
> > But I have cute Keds and pretty long skirts, and love to dress up my pulled back hair in hair baubles. I guess in my own way, I try.
>
> Well, that doesn’t sound passive aggressive, does it?
>
> > Ok, the pink and yellow I can't excuse. But by the time the enthusiasm passed, my closet was full of it and I wasn't about to spend more money.
>
> The pink and yellow thing might be more noticeable than other things you mentioned. I used to know a girl who wore only purple, and actually it was quite striking. But I realise that my own clothes don’t vary all that much. I wear pink, purple, brown, black, cream and charcoal grey. I don’t have anything yellow, orange or green. It’s because (yes, I know this sounds crazy) I find pink and purple clothes stretchier and more comfortable than green and yellow clothes.
>
> I dunno. With my shape I look pretty awful in most clothes. I think I actually look better naked than dressed. I’m 250 pounds at the moment, but most of that is tummy. I look about 15 months pregnant. I don’t think western clothes suit me at all. I’d like to wear a shalwar kameez or a sari or something; I think they’d look better on my shape. But that would be making a statement too…I'd like that too. Women who are more generously built tend to look so impressive in them.
>
> What about brown? Do you like brown? It goes really well with both pink and yellow…I bought a couple of things this spring in turquoise of all colors. I've always avoided it because my skin is sort of sallow, or golden if I want to be generous. It's a nice change of pace from the yellow and pink. And I had kept some purple. I think some of the rest of my wardrobe is packed away somewhere. I just need to remember where...
Posted by Dinah on August 11, 2006, at 17:36:34
In reply to Re: The strangest things bother me, posted by cecilia on August 11, 2006, at 6:26:25
It's under his desk behind his briefcase. He must like to live dangerously if people actually pitch their used tissues there.
And two clocks. One for each of us to watch. And his is in a place where it's obvious he's looking at it.
Time management is very important to me. I like to introduce topics with plenty of time to discuss them, and wind down the last few minutes.
Posted by annierose on August 11, 2006, at 18:27:20
In reply to Found the trashcan!!! » cecilia, posted by Dinah on August 11, 2006, at 17:36:34
Glad you found the trash can. I thought everyone must have at least one by his/her desk. That is where my T's is too - but I do sit on that side of the room. I can't see her clock, but I have my eyes closed 95% of the time. I'm getting pretty good at knowing when it's time - seldom am I thrown off by her, "Our time is up."
Posted by Dinah on August 11, 2006, at 19:11:57
In reply to Re: Found the trashcan!!! » Dinah, posted by annierose on August 11, 2006, at 18:27:20
I think my goal from day one has been never to hear those words.
Not only do I watch the clock, but I'm trained like one of Pavlov's dogs. When he leans forward or picks up his pen towards the end of session, I obediently get my purse and collect his check. If I'm positive we still have time left, I burrow myself a bit deeper and set my chin. Then he knows I know he still owes me time. :) If he wants to continue talking and thinks I'm trying to cut him off by handing him a check, he lets me sit there with a check dangling while he stays leaning back.
It's a nice little arrangement, honed over years of working together.
Posted by Poet on August 12, 2006, at 16:46:34
In reply to Found the trashcan!!! » cecilia, posted by Dinah on August 11, 2006, at 17:36:34
Hi Dinah,
My T doesn't have a desk to hide a trashcan underneath.
Only one clock, too. Facing her. Ex pdoc had one facing me and one facing him. I liked that. Maybe I should buy my T another clock as well as a trashcan?
Poet
Posted by llrrrpp on August 13, 2006, at 21:58:02
In reply to Re: Found the trashcan!!! » Dinah, posted by Poet on August 12, 2006, at 16:46:34
Hi Dinah,
I have baby-hair too. I rarely wear it longer than chin length. Sometimes in pigtails, often with barrettes. It gets kind of flippy in the summer, and I'm too lazy/depressed to blowdry it or style it beyond wash and comb and wear.And I make sure that it's washed when I see PT or T. Even if it's the only time I can force myself to do it. A must. I can't allow myself to feel any worse about myself than necessary. Have to feel strong to survive T.
I am a t-shirt + jeans + tennis shoe kinda girl. Occasionally I ride my bike to town to see T, so I rarely wear a skirt.
I found the trashcan the first session, because I had a paper coffee cup. I'm a good shot.
My T wears strange clothing. I know a fair bit about fashion, and choose to ignore it on purpose. My T? Who knows? He wears expensive sandals, and has a trim figure, but in the summer has been wearing these pastel T-shirts- lilac and salmon (to be generous). I know he's not gay, and these colors are good with his complexion, but so would green and blue, you know what I mean? hmm
I have been known to obsess about wearing certain clothing to T and PT. I don't want men other than my husband to look at my boobies, so I try not to accentuate them more than necessary.
-ll
This is the end of the thread.
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