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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tamar on August 10, 2006, at 18:56:04
and then he won’t be able to go away anywhere ever again.
It’s only been two days. That means 19 days until I see him again. Why are they allowed to have vacations? Why can’t they just live in their offices? Is it me? Am I being unreasonable?
Two days ago we talked for almost an hour about sex. He’s the only person in the world that I feel *uncomfortable* talking about sex with. I’d rather talk about sex with my father-in-law, or my mother, than with my therapist. I’d rather go on TV and describe precisely what I was doing last Thursday night than talk to my therapist about general sexual activities.
He was good, though. He was utterly unflustered, even when I had to explain precisely the difficulties that Prozac is causing for me. And I’d decided it was a good time for me to talk about it, because I’m certain he’ll have put it out of his head by now and he won’t have a chance to think about it or remember anything I said.
I want him back. Three weeks without him is too long.
I still want to tell him how attached my 18 year-old is feeling. I don’t know why it’s so important to me. I think I want his permission to love him. I’m too disgusting to be allowed to love people. And yet I do love people, and that’s fine when they don’t mind me loving them. But I’m certain my therapist doesn’t want my love, and I wish it were different. I wish my love for him could be something good. Instead it feels immoral and inappropriate. And if I’m so sure he doesn’t want me to love him, why would I tell him I love him? I know I shouldn’t tell him because he doesn’t want my love. It’s strange how powerful it is: the longing to be allowed to love him.
Posted by annierose on August 10, 2006, at 22:40:50
In reply to I’m going to tie my therapist to his chair, posted by Tamar on August 10, 2006, at 18:56:04
Hi Tamar -
I'm glad you are feeling so connected to your therapy right now, and yes, seperations are hard. I'm currently on day 13 of a vacation break - and I will hopefully have an appt on Tues if I don't get stuck in an airport on Monday in NYC.
You are brave. Good job for bringing up some difficult sexual issues. I just skirt around the topic when needed, don't delve too deep. No pun intended. Waiting to continue the conversation after you open up a sensitive point is so hard too. There is just no way around "easy therapy" - I don't think it really exists. It's an office filled with land mines just waiting to explode or implode.
But I do disagree. I know he has forgotten several things recently; he won't forget this conversation. Not to be sexist, men just don't forget easily the sex topic.
The 18 year old is yearning to heal the past hurts. It makes perfect sense to me that she wants to feel your T's kindness, compassion and love. She needs to know that it's safe to do so. Your T does want your loving side of you in therapy; he can't fall "in love". But I think it's okay to share your feelings. Always makes for a good session.
What has helped me get through my vacation, then hers (back to back) was meditation and yoga, especially yoga. It feels like therapy without the angst.
Besides therapy stuff, how are you doing? How is your mother-in-law?
Thinking of you,
Annie
Posted by Tamar on August 11, 2006, at 3:45:16
In reply to Re: I’m going to tie my therapist to his chair » Tamar, posted by annierose on August 10, 2006, at 22:40:50
Hi Annie,
> I'm glad you are feeling so connected to your therapy right now, and yes, seperations are hard. I'm currently on day 13 of a vacation break - and I will hopefully have an appt on Tues if I don't get stuck in an airport on Monday in NYC.
Gosh, I hope you don’t get stuck! Each day is hard!
> You are brave. Good job for bringing up some difficult sexual issues. I just skirt around the topic when needed, don't delve too deep. No pun intended. Waiting to continue the conversation after you open up a sensitive point is so hard too. There is just no way around "easy therapy" - I don't think it really exists. It's an office filled with land mines just waiting to explode or implode.
You are right! There is definitely no easy therapy. However, I was so pleased that it was possible to talk about the sexual stuff. He was just so matter-of-fact about it all. And of course, I knew he would be. But trusting people with that kind of stuff always feels like a huge risk.
> But I do disagree. I know he has forgotten several things recently; he won't forget this conversation. Not to be sexist, men just don't forget easily the sex topic.Tee hee. I expect you’re right. And you’re absolutely right to mention that he’s forgotten things recently. I guess I was kind of counting on that experience to convince myself that I can escape from this topic when he returns. But some of the stuff I talked about was fairly graphic, and I do need to talk about it some more…
> The 18 year old is yearning to heal the past hurts. It makes perfect sense to me that she wants to feel your T's kindness, compassion and love. She needs to know that it's safe to do so. Your T does want your loving side of you in therapy; he can't fall "in love". But I think it's okay to share your feelings. Always makes for a good session.
You’re right – she would like to feel his kindness, compassion and love. At the moment, though, she doesn’t really think he feels anything much for her. She has absolutely no expectation that he might care about her… She just wants to be allowed to care about him.
> What has helped me get through my vacation, then hers (back to back) was meditation and yoga, especially yoga. It feels like therapy without the angst.
Yikes! Back-to-back vacations! Ouch! I was very lucky; I returned home from my vacation two days before my therapist left for his, so we were able to squeeze an appointment in. Yoga sounds great. Unfortunately I’m not very good at it. I always seem to lose my balance. I’ve been doing a little bit of meditating though, with candles and incense. It’s good to have some quiet time.
> Besides therapy stuff, how are you doing? How is your mother-in-law?
Thanks for asking! I’m doing a little better, I think. My mother-in-law is doing extraordinarily well. She can now walk about the house without sticks. This is a woman who nearly didn’t survive. Her legs were broken in several places, and the doctor who operated on her foot said it had been like tried to fix a cookie that had been stamped on. They weren’t sure she was going to be able to walk at all, and even if she did walk they said she’d have to use sticks indoors and probably a wheelchair outdoors.
She’s proved them all wrong. We’ve just been on vacation together – my husband’s parents have a house in the country. And my mother-in-law was cooking and visiting friends and walking to church and doing everything as normally as possible. There were times when I briefly forgot she’d been in an accident. She’s a remarkable woman! I’m just so grateful we didn’t lose her.
On a sadder note, I went to her aunt’s grave – her aunt died in the accident. I loved her very much and it was quite shocking to see her name on a gravestone. It was strange seeing the date of her death (26 December 2005). Somehow it didn’t seem enough. I kind of wanted the gravestone to tell the story of her death: how unfair and sudden it was. However, it was instant. She didn’t suffer. And I guess that’s another thing to be grateful for.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Tamar
Posted by Dinah on August 11, 2006, at 17:02:31
In reply to I’m going to tie my therapist to his chair, posted by Tamar on August 10, 2006, at 18:56:04
> and then he won’t be able to go away anywhere ever again.
>
> It’s only been two days. That means 19 days until I see him again. Why are they allowed to have vacations? Why can’t they just live in their offices? Is it me? Am I being unreasonable?It's not just you. :) Or they could bring us with them. Or they could at least say they'll miss us too.
> Two days ago we talked for almost an hour about sex. He’s the only person in the world that I feel *uncomfortable* talking about sex with. I’d rather talk about sex with my father-in-law, or my mother, than with my therapist. I’d rather go on TV and describe precisely what I was doing last Thursday night than talk to my therapist about general sexual activities.
I wouldn't say I'm most uncomfortable talking to my therapist. I remember watching The Contest episode of Seinfeld with my parents. That was worse. But we were discussing just today how I was reluctant because I saw him as proper and maybe uptight. At first he laughed and said I didn't know him well, but then he said he wasn't necessarily embarassed just because he blushed, and then admitted he was somewhere between loose and uptight. Maybe tightly loose or loosely tight.
>
> He was good, though. He was utterly unflustered, even when I had to explain precisely the difficulties that Prozac is causing for me. And I’d decided it was a good time for me to talk about it, because I’m certain he’ll have put it out of his head by now and he won’t have a chance to think about it or remember anything I said.I do that! I tell him things when I know there's some reason he'll be more likely than usual to forget. And once I've said it once, it's easier to say it the next time. I hope it will be for you too, whether or not he forgets - especially since he was unflappable.
>
> I want him back. Three weeks without him is too long.Yes, it is. :( Isn't part of that your own vacation?
>
> I still want to tell him how attached my 18 year-old is feeling. I don’t know why it’s so important to me. I think I want his permission to love him. I’m too disgusting to be allowed to love people. And yet I do love people, and that’s fine when they don’t mind me loving them. But I’m certain my therapist doesn’t want my love, and I wish it were different. I wish my love for him could be something good. Instead it feels immoral and inappropriate. And if I’m so sure he doesn’t want me to love him, why would I tell him I love him? I know I shouldn’t tell him because he doesn’t want my love. It’s strange how powerful it is: the longing to be allowed to love him.
>I think I understand that. I think I understand it very much.
Posted by llrrrpp on August 12, 2006, at 16:58:45
In reply to Re: I’m going to tie my therapist to his chair, posted by Dinah on August 11, 2006, at 17:02:31
Hi Tamar,
I'm glad to hear that your mother-in-law is doing well.I hope that you can enjoy this opportunity to experience your life without your T, to discover what you're doing well, and perhaps what you still need help with. Maybe it's good to get a little distance every now and then, so that you can get a fresh start.
I recently visited a cemetery with my mom. We went to visit a relative's grave for the first time since his death. I wasn't very close to him, but my mom was. It had been 2 years, but it hit my mom really hard and she was crying a lot. I know what you mean- the gravestone itself is so incomplete. It's a symbol, definitely, but we want it to be more, to talk to us, and tell us about our loved ones and how they are doing in the afterlife. We want to feel like they are there, somehow...
-ll
Posted by Tamar on August 12, 2006, at 18:10:48
In reply to Re: I’m going to tie my therapist to his chair, posted by Dinah on August 11, 2006, at 17:02:31
> It's not just you. :) Or they could bring us with them. Or they could at least say they'll miss us too.
Yeah! He’s going somewhere really nice. He could have taken me with him. We could have an hour of therapy in the morning and then I’d let him spend time with his family. Surely that’s not too much to ask!
> I wouldn't say I'm most uncomfortable talking to my therapist. I remember watching The Contest episode of Seinfeld with my parents. That was worse.
Tee hee. Yeah, I can imagine!
> But we were discussing just today how I was reluctant because I saw him as proper and maybe uptight. At first he laughed and said I didn't know him well, but then he said he wasn't necessarily embarassed just because he blushed, and then admitted he was somewhere between loose and uptight. Maybe tightly loose or loosely tight.
So what does the blushing signify, if not embarrassment?
As for proper and uptight… maybe that’s just how therapist non-disclosure about sexual stuff comes across. Well, that’s how I imagine it, because my therapist seems quite proper as well. But I think it’s just because he doesn’t give anything away about his sexuality. I find it quite uncomfortable; I’d rather he talked about his experiences of sexuality. But therapy is therapy... I try to subvert that ‘proper’ image of him by imagining what he looks like first thing in the morning, with his hair all sticking up, and stubble on his chin, and half-closed eyes. He seems much less proper when I think of him like that.> I do that! I tell him things when I know there's some reason he'll be more likely than usual to forget. And once I've said it once, it's easier to say it the next time. I hope it will be for you too, whether or not he forgets - especially since he was unflappable.
I’m glad I’m not the only one. And that’s a good point about it being easier to talk about next time. Yeah, I really think it will be easier.
> > I want him back. Three weeks without him is too long.
>
> Yes, it is. :( Isn't part of that your own vacation?No, I’ve had my vacation. Ten days in the country with my family and my in-laws. It was lovely but it was over too soon! I went two weeks between therapy appointments and that was pretty hard. I was totally ready to see him when Tuesday came around. And this time it’ll be even longer. I’ll just have to try to take care of myself a bit.
> I think I understand that. I think I understand it very much.
I’m glad you understand. Being understood feels very good. (((((Dinah)))))
Posted by Tamar on August 12, 2006, at 18:25:27
In reply to Re: I’m going to tie my therapist to his chair, posted by llrrrpp on August 12, 2006, at 16:58:45
> I'm glad to hear that your mother-in-law is doing well.
Thanks!
> I hope that you can enjoy this opportunity to experience your life without your T, to discover what you're doing well, and perhaps what you still need help with. Maybe it's good to get a little distance every now and then, so that you can get a fresh start.
You’re probably right. It’s hard for me to see it that way at the moment… I feel a bit abandoned. And although distance might be a good thing, I feel as if the rhythm of our work together is quite disrupted by his absence. But maybe this can be considered an opportunity as well…
> I recently visited a cemetery with my mom. We went to visit a relative's grave for the first time since his death. I wasn't very close to him, but my mom was. It had been 2 years, but it hit my mom really hard and she was crying a lot. I know what you mean- the gravestone itself is so incomplete. It's a symbol, definitely, but we want it to be more, to talk to us, and tell us about our loved ones and how they are doing in the afterlife. We want to feel like they are there, somehow...
Yeah, it’s true. We do want to feel they’re there. Thanks llrrrpp.
Posted by Daisym on August 12, 2006, at 20:33:15
In reply to I’m going to tie my therapist to his chair, posted by Tamar on August 10, 2006, at 18:56:04
>>>>I wish my love for him could be something good. Instead it feels immoral and inappropriate. And if I’m so sure he doesn’t want me to love him, why would I tell him I love him? I know I shouldn’t tell him because he doesn’t want my love. It’s strange how powerful it is: the longing to be allowed to love him.
<<<<<This really resonanted with me, except it isn't my therapist who is telling me I'm not allowed to love him. It is some other voice (s?) that loudly proclaim that this is presumptuous on my part and "who the he!! do I think I am to love him..." etc. And it isn't like I even want him to DO anything, I just want it to be OK for me to feel this intense about him.
Any ideas on how it can be made OK? Him telling me it is OK isn't working.
I hope the vacation goes really fast. I'm happy you found you can talk to him about sex. Those conversations are often hard to have, and yet can be really great for moving closer and building trust. I'm not surprised he was unflappable. I would expect no less.
Hang in there
Daisy
Posted by Tamar on August 12, 2006, at 21:37:48
In reply to Re: I’m going to tie my therapist to his chair, posted by Daisym on August 12, 2006, at 20:33:15
> >>>>I wish my love for him could be something good. Instead it feels immoral and inappropriate. And if I’m so sure he doesn’t want me to love him, why would I tell him I love him? I know I shouldn’t tell him because he doesn’t want my love. It’s strange how powerful it is: the longing to be allowed to love him.
>
> <<<<<This really resonanted with me, except it isn't my therapist who is telling me I'm not allowed to love him. It is some other voice (s?) that loudly proclaim that this is presumptuous on my part and "who the he!! do I think I am to love him..." etc. And it isn't like I even want him to DO anything, I just want it to be OK for me to feel this intense about him.Yeah. I have that voice too: it’s harsh and mocking. It tells me that my love for him is disgusting, because I’m disgusting. It tells me I’m stupid because I forget that people don’t want me to love them. And it tells me that if I allow myself to confess my love for him, he will certainly be disgusted.
> Any ideas on how it can be made OK? Him telling me it is OK isn't working.
I wish there were an easy answer. For me there’s a lot of fear. I’m afraid to allow myself to love him because the feelings are so powerful. I don’t think I can love him just a little bit. If I allow myself to love him, then I’m going to love him a lot, and it feels inappropriate. I don’t want to overwhelm him with my feelings and drive him away. He told me when we talked about anger that therapy is a place where it’s ok to have very powerful feelings. And I suppose the same should be true of love. I’m not afraid that my anger will drive him away, but I’m terrified that my love will drive him away.
I think it would feel more OK to me if I thought that he wanted me to love him; if he could tell me that he values my love and that he’s pleased that I feel it. The thing is, love is a gift. But how could he want my gift when it’s so contaminated by my disgustingness? I don’t think he could persuade me that my love is clean or good. But if he could tell me that however contaminated it is, he values it because it’s all I have to give him… then maybe I could believe it was OK.
> I hope the vacation goes really fast. I'm happy you found you can talk to him about sex. Those conversations are often hard to have, and yet can be really great for moving closer and building trust. I'm not surprised he was unflappable. I would expect no less.
Yes, I do feel a bit more trusting after that conversation. I almost think I could tell him anything…
Thanks Daisy!
Tamar
Posted by Daisym on August 12, 2006, at 22:00:09
In reply to Re: I’m going to tie my therapist to his chair » Daisym, posted by Tamar on August 12, 2006, at 21:37:48
>>>>>I think it would feel more OK to me if I thought that he wanted me to love him; if he could tell me that he values my love and that he’s pleased that I feel it. The thing is, love is a gift. But how could he want my gift when it’s so contaminated by my disgustingness? I don’t think he could persuade me that my love is clean or good. But if he could tell me that however contaminated it is, he values it because it’s all I have to give him… then maybe I could believe it was OK.
<<<<<Contaminated is the word I always use. I doubt your therapist thinks that you are...but I completely understand this feeling. However, don't you think you are selling him a little short by not allowing him to show you how much he does value your love and trust? Think about it with your students -- if one of them told you that they cared about you deeply because you've helped them so much, would you be disgusted? Even though you know you can't be with them, you can respect their feelings and honor them with kindness and a gentle acceptance. Isn't that what we all want?
As I write this, I know it is so much more complicated for different parts of us. There is a deep internal dialogue that tells us that loving someone is the kiss of death. It is the fastest, easiest way to convince someone to run away from us -- at least this is how I think. But when I get little moments of clarity I hear my therapist say, "everyone wants to be special and that is perfectly OK. And you are very special to me."
And yet, when the fog descends, I find myself wishing I didn't feel such an intense array of feelings. Is this the teenage crush I was suppose to have at 17? And the sexual feelings that come and go make everything a thousand times worse and magnifies the danger of the whole thing.
I really hate this.
Posted by caraher on August 13, 2006, at 22:46:49
In reply to Re: I’m going to tie my therapist to his chair » Daisym, posted by Tamar on August 12, 2006, at 21:37:48
> Yeah. I have that voice too: it’s harsh and mocking. It tells me that my love for him is disgusting, because I’m disgusting. It tells me I’m stupid because I forget that people don’t want me to love them. And it tells me that if I allow myself to confess my love for him, he will certainly be disgusted.
I know this voice yields slowly to reason, if at all. Still... imagine writing a list of people whose love you would find "disgusting." And by "love" I don't mean you would have any kind of ongoing relationship with these people. I just mean, someone comes to you, tells of their love for you, and says they understand that it won't be possible to have a relationship.
How likely is it that you'd be "disgusted," even if it was someone you are not attracted to? How likely is it that you'd be flattered on some level?
I can't think of anyone on Babble whom I'd consider "disgusting" in the way your inner voice says you are. Daisy and Tamar, I find it at least as inconceivable that your respective Ts would be disgusted by your loving feelings as your critical voices would find the acceptance I'm sure you would find.
Posted by Tamar on August 14, 2006, at 6:27:50
In reply to Re: I’m going to tie my therapist to his chair, posted by Daisym on August 12, 2006, at 22:00:09
> <<<<<Contaminated is the word I always use. I doubt your therapist thinks that you are...but I completely understand this feeling. However, don't you think you are selling him a little short by not allowing him to show you how much he does value your love and trust? Think about it with your students -- if one of them told you that they cared about you deeply because you've helped them so much, would you be disgusted? Even though you know you can't be with them, you can respect their feelings and honor them with kindness and a gentle acceptance. Isn't that what we all want?
Oh, for sure. I’d never feel disgusted if one of my students told me they cared about me or loved me. In fact, sometimes they do. And one or two have said they wanted to have a relationship with me. And yeah, it makes me feel good that they care about me. It’s hard to turn it around and imagine that my therapist would feel even remotely comfortable with my feelings, though. I can imagine it when I’m at home thinking about telling him, but as soon as I’m in his office it all feels so real; it feels like an enormous risk.
> As I write this, I know it is so much more complicated for different parts of us. There is a deep internal dialogue that tells us that loving someone is the kiss of death. It is the fastest, easiest way to convince someone to run away from us -- at least this is how I think. But when I get little moments of clarity I hear my therapist say, "everyone wants to be special and that is perfectly OK. And you are very special to me."
I think your therapist is probably more forthcoming than mine would be. I can’t imagine my therapist telling me I’m special to him. On a good day I can imagine him telling me it’s OK to love him and that it’s OK to want to be special to him. But I just can’t imagine him ever saying anything at all about his feelings for me. And of course I don’t expect him to tell me he loves me. But it would be nice to hear him say he cares about me.
> And yet, when the fog descends, I find myself wishing I didn't feel such an intense array of feelings. Is this the teenage crush I was suppose to have at 17? And the sexual feelings that come and go make everything a thousand times worse and magnifies the danger of the whole thing.
Yeah. I’d like to turn my feelings off completely. About crushes… I think they can happen at any age. But if they happen naturally and healthily at 17 it’s probably easier to accept them in your 30s or 40s or 50s. And actually, I think the feelings involved in therapy are much more complex than a crush. But yeah, the sexual feelings can be terrifying. The bizarre thing is that I’m not even feeling sexual stuff for my therapist at the moment, although I’ve felt it in the past. Or actually… I’m still attracted to him, but it isn’t currently part of the transference. At the moment it feels much more comfortable; much more like my attractions to other people. Although of course there was the incident at the weekend that shook me up quite a bit (which I posted about below). I just want to love him from a distance.
> I really hate this.
Me too. I keep trying to tell myself: I *do* have him. He *is* mine. He is mine in therapy, and for that hour he’s completely mine and nobody else’s. I feel as if I can accept that. But I want him to want to be mine as well, even if it’s only in therapy.
Posted by Tamar on August 14, 2006, at 6:39:52
In reply to Re: I’m going to tie my therapist to his chair, posted by caraher on August 13, 2006, at 22:46:49
> > Yeah. I have that voice too: it’s harsh and mocking. It tells me that my love for him is disgusting, because I’m disgusting. It tells me I’m stupid because I forget that people don’t want me to love them. And it tells me that if I allow myself to confess my love for him, he will certainly be disgusted.
>
> I know this voice yields slowly to reason, if at all. Still... imagine writing a list of people whose love you would find "disgusting." And by "love" I don't mean you would have any kind of ongoing relationship with these people. I just mean, someone comes to you, tells of their love for you, and says they understand that it won't be possible to have a relationship.I wouldn’t find anyone’s love disgusting. Only my own.
> How likely is it that you'd be "disgusted," even if it was someone you are not attracted to? How likely is it that you'd be flattered on some level?
Yeah… It would definitely make me feel good.
> I can't think of anyone on Babble whom I'd consider "disgusting" in the way your inner voice says you are. Daisy and Tamar, I find it at least as inconceivable that your respective Ts would be disgusted by your loving feelings as your critical voices would find the acceptance I'm sure you would find.
I want so much to believe you are right. I will try.
Posted by muffled on August 14, 2006, at 14:08:00
In reply to Re: I’m going to tie my therapist to his chair » Daisym, posted by Tamar on August 12, 2006, at 21:37:48
> > >>>>I wish my love for him could be something good. Instead it feels immoral and inappropriate. And if I’m so sure he doesn’t want me to love him, why would I tell him I love him? I know I shouldn’t tell him because he doesn’t want my love. It’s strange how powerful it is: the longing to be allowed to love him.
***Mebbe insteada love you could say 'care'. You care bout him lots.
> >
> > <<<<<This really resonanted with me, except it isn't my therapist who is telling me I'm not allowed to love him. It is some other voice (s?) that loudly proclaim that this is presumptuous on my part and "who the he!! do I think I am to love him..." etc. And it isn't like I even want him to DO anything, I just want it to be OK for me to feel this intense about him.**Whoah, this is practically what I wrote in my journal. Cept I don't use word love.
>
> Yeah. I have that voice too: it’s harsh and mocking. It tells me that my love for him is disgusting, because I’m disgusting. It tells me I’m stupid because I forget that people don’t want me to love them. And it tells me that if I allow myself to confess my love for him, he will certainly be disgusted.
>
> > Any ideas on how it can be made OK? Him telling me it is OK isn't working.
>
> I wish there were an easy answer. For me there’s a lot of fear. I’m afraid to allow myself to love him because the feelings are so powerful. I don’t think I can love him just a little bit. If I allow myself to love him, then I’m going to love him a lot, and it feels inappropriate. I don’t want to overwhelm him with my feelings and drive him away. He told me when we talked about anger that therapy is a place where it’s ok to have very powerful feelings. And I suppose the same should be true of love. I’m not afraid that my anger will drive him away, but I’m terrified that my love will drive him away.***I don't think your love will fly out of control. I think thats a lie yoyur telling your self.
Could you try just telling him you care bout him and go from there???Baby steps?
>
> I think it would feel more OK to me if I thought that he wanted me to love him; if he could tell me that he values my love and that he’s pleased that I feel it. The thing is, love is a gift. But how could he want my gift when it’s so contaminated by my disgustingness? I don’t think he could persuade me that my love is clean or good. But if he could tell me that however contaminated it is, he values it because it’s all I have to give him… then maybe I could believe it was OK.***Yeah, I used to call myself a leper, cuz i contaminated everything I came in contact with.....
Nice to see you posting.
Take care Tamar,
You most definately not disgusting.
Muffly>
Posted by happyflower on August 15, 2006, at 18:57:10
In reply to I’m going to tie my therapist to his chair, posted by Tamar on August 10, 2006, at 18:56:04
Okay Tamar,
I won't tell you what thought came to my mind when I read the title of your post! ;-) I think I am the pervert around here! LOL
This is the end of the thread.
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