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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 4 to 28 of 33. Go back in thread:
Posted by Jost on July 12, 2006, at 16:41:21
In reply to ... with SOME normal people? (nm), posted by curtm on July 12, 2006, at 16:11:23
I don't believe in normal people--or unicorns.
But was the woman saying it as if to suggest that there was something "wrong" with the person? Cause I might think someone has underlying issues-- without meaning anything bad by it.
But it can be said, as if to suggest, well, if that person weren't so "screwed up,"--ie somewhat to say making a mountain out of a molehill, as my mother used to put it-- then it wouldn't have bothered them?
Is that what caught your attention?
Jost
Posted by curtm on July 12, 2006, at 16:47:17
In reply to Re: ... with SOME normal people?, posted by Jost on July 12, 2006, at 16:41:21
I think what she was implying is that people with disroderd thinking/mental illness did it to themselves, but actually they are born with an imbalance on chemical neurotransmitter function (speaking specifically of mood disorders and addiction.) I get a lot of this "misunderstanding from people and it angers me that instead of compassion, we get this "You must have done it to yourself somehow" attitude.
********
> I don't believe in normal people--or unicorns.
>
> But was the woman saying it as if to suggest that there was something "wrong" with the person? Cause I might think someone has underlying issues-- without meaning anything bad by it.
>
> But it can be said, as if to suggest, well, if that person weren't so "screwed up,"--ie somewhat to say making a mountain out of a molehill, as my mother used to put it-- then it wouldn't have bothered them?
>
> Is that what caught your attention?
>
> Jost
>
Posted by Jost on July 12, 2006, at 22:21:19
In reply to Re: ... with SOME normal people? » Jost, posted by curtm on July 12, 2006, at 16:47:17
I see what you're saying, curt. Blaming doesn't feel right when it comes to people's pain and hurt, or their having a hard time with any challenge.
Whether it comes from some biochemical or other complex neuropsychological cause, or from life experiences, or a combination-- people's struggle deserves respect and listening, kindness and honesty.
Sometimes, as with my mother, maybe it's too threatening to hear about how hard it is-- and people want may feel a bit helpless. Then it sometimes helps them (not the other person) to say they've somehow brought it on themselves.
At least that's my sense. Doesn't make it easier when it happens, though.
Jost
Posted by Racer on July 12, 2006, at 23:31:51
In reply to What is it with people?, posted by curtm on July 12, 2006, at 15:25:21
I have stories from my own family:
My aunt, on being told I was was experiencing another episode of major depression:
"What are you depressed about? You have to be depressed about something."
About my weight, after I told them that it was because of the antidepressant I was on:
"Well, then you shouldn't take it. No wonder you're depressed." (Unsaid part: 'no wonder you're depressed, you're FAT!')
And I won't go on. I'm crying too much today anyway...
Posted by Jost on July 13, 2006, at 10:49:33
In reply to Dunno, but... » curtm, posted by Racer on July 12, 2006, at 23:31:51
Don't cry, Racer. You seem like such a great person.
One of the two best friends that I ever had in my life was fat (I hate that word)-- It wasn't such a good kind of fat-- sort of didn't wear the weight that well--
She was the most engaging, witty, imaginative person I've ever known. It was a struggle and she never was able to control it. But, you know what, I loved the way she looked. Cause that was her.
I know being fat can be really hard-- esp, because you can't feel quite the same if you think people have a reaction to that-- but I wish you could see how unimportant it is, compared to things that are great about you.
Jost
.
Posted by Racer on July 13, 2006, at 21:13:42
In reply to Re: Dunno, but... » Racer, posted by Jost on July 13, 2006, at 10:49:33
See, about the weight, remember that I'm anorexic. Even when I'm fat, I'm usually restricting to some extent -- I gained the first ten pounds on Paxil without any changes to diet or exercise, for instance -- and my weight is always very, very upsetting to me.
The people in my family who comment on me being fat are people with weight problems of their own. No one is hugely obese, but they're quite heavy, and probably moving into the obese range.
And they scream and yell and tell me I have to do something when I'm thin.
And the last time I had a meal with my aunt, about a year ago, during treatment for AN, when I was gaining weight and had a meal plan, etc, she said something about me, "getting off my fat @$$." It was hard enough for me to eat anyway, and that just stopped me for about another week.
There's judgement, and just general lack of respect for me in any sense, and lack of respect for anyone's boundaries. I call them The Human Steamrollers, because they just drive right on over you...
Thank you very much for your reassurance and comfort. I really do appreciate your words.
Posted by Jost on July 13, 2006, at 22:17:06
In reply to Thanks » Jost, posted by Racer on July 13, 2006, at 21:13:42
Thanks for your response, Racer. I was worrying quite a bit today about whether I might have offended you.
What you wrote explains a lot.
Family members who don't understand things are something I've experienced, but I'm surprised that anyone would talk to you in that way.
I'm sorry you had to hear that, and to cope with the way it echoes in your thoughts,
Jost
Posted by laima on July 19, 2006, at 10:19:39
In reply to What is it with people?, posted by curtm on July 12, 2006, at 15:25:21
The sort of attitute you describe really upsets me, too. I feel that I've lost friends who don't see why I haven't "snapped out of it", and I fear I've been shunned by people who sense something is wrong--and seems to stay wrong. I'm really hurt by all of it.
Why in this day and age there is so much ignorance and judgement about mood disorders I cannot comprehend.
> I was talking to this woman about depression and an event that happened to someone very depressed. She is no stranger. A good coworker and friend, but she said, "I think it all stems from something underlying, don't you?"
>
> By that I am pretty sure she was implying that those illnesses stem from purely behavioral and environment issues. Of course I said, "No, I don't agree."
>
> It is purely uneducated and biased. I sometimes want to say things that I shouldn't to them.
>
Posted by capricorn on July 20, 2006, at 12:31:30
In reply to Re: ... with SOME normal people? » Jost, posted by curtm on July 12, 2006, at 16:47:17
> I think what she was implying is that people with disroderd thinking/mental illness did it to themselves, but actually they are born with an imbalance on chemical neurotransmitter function (speaking specifically of mood disorders and addiction.) I get a lot of this "misunderstanding from people and it angers me that instead of compassion, we get this "You must have done it to yourself somehow" attitude.
>
> ********
It angers me when people with the kind of depression you are talking about somehow think their depression is more valid than that of those of us whose moods are more environmentally triggered in nature.
I have experienced both but am noticeably more prone to the non endogenous kind.
They are both equally horrible but different.
Posted by laima on July 20, 2006, at 12:45:24
In reply to Re: ... with SOME normal people?, posted by capricorn on July 20, 2006, at 12:31:30
I know all of humanity goes through bad times and suffers- I just think there is a difference between understandable low moments in people who otherwise cope very well with life vs those prone to casually exclaiming "I'm Soooo depressed I missed that movie", etc., vs clinical, debilitating ongoing depression. People use that term, "depressed" casually sometimes.> > I think what she was implying is that people with disroderd thinking/mental illness did it to themselves, but actually they are born with an imbalance on chemical neurotransmitter function (speaking specifically of mood disorders and addiction.) I get a lot of this "misunderstanding from people and it angers me that instead of compassion, we get this "You must have done it to yourself somehow" attitude.
> >
> > ********
>
>
> It angers me when people with the kind of depression you are talking about somehow think their depression is more valid than that of those of us whose moods are more environmentally triggered in nature.
> I have experienced both but am noticeably more prone to the non endogenous kind.
> They are both equally horrible but different.
>
>
>
>
Posted by capricorn on July 20, 2006, at 16:33:02
In reply to Re: ... with SOME normal people?, posted by laima on July 20, 2006, at 12:45:24
>
> I know all of humanity goes through bad times and suffers- I just think there is a difference between understandable low moments in people who otherwise cope very well with life vs those prone to casually exclaiming "I'm Soooo depressed I missed that movie", etc., vs clinical, debilitating ongoing depression. People use that term, "depressed" casually sometimes.
I'm not talking about 'missing movies' or that kind of thing but the depression and emotional distress that can eat you up inside because you are so emotionally hyersensitive due to either emotional/physical or sexual abuse that you can be
plunged into a variety of intense negative emotions including despair/anxiety/paranoia and anger.Calm to the point of being an emotional zombie and like nothing is fully satisfying and
then something happens and your mood goes rapidly
in a different direction everything so intense in a dysphoric/negative way you wish your brain would explode and when the emotional overload/pain is to bad you are sinking deep into anxiety/fear driven
paranoia and rage and hopelessness and with it is so difficult to think straight ,your mind is all over the place.
At the time you think it won't go away but it's as intense as it's short lived andb the aftermath is feeling totally useless/totally worthless/like you
really are as bad or worse than all the negative things people have aimed at you.
It may not last as long in length as a bout of
'clinical depression' but swinging between being
emotionally zombified and emotionally too intense in a negative way is horrible and just as bad in it's own way.
Posted by laima on July 20, 2006, at 16:50:45
In reply to Re: ... with SOME normal people?, posted by capricorn on July 20, 2006, at 16:33:02
It may not last as long in length as a bout of
> 'clinical depression' but swinging between being
> emotionally zombified and emotionally too intense in a negative way is horrible and just as bad in it's own way.--as for this, I don't know that it's a picture of "mental health", either. It's not what I'm talking about.
I agree that every human being, "normal", "well adjusted" or not (if there are such easily definable things) goes through periods of suffering, but I don't think they are all "clinically depressed". I don't know how to further express myself without opening up a can of worms ready for gross misinterpretation and hurt feelings, so I think I best leave the topic before it gets out of hand. Obviously I am not communicating effectively and it might be best for me to drop this. Sincerely sorry I touched the subject.
> >
> > I know all of humanity goes through bad times and suffers- I just think there is a difference between understandable low moments in people who otherwise cope very well with life vs those prone to casually exclaiming "I'm Soooo depressed I missed that movie", etc., vs clinical, debilitating ongoing depression. People use that term, "depressed" casually sometimes.
>
>
> I'm not talking about 'missing movies' or that kind of thing but the depression and emotional distress that can eat you up inside because you are so emotionally hyersensitive due to either emotional/physical or sexual abuse that you can be
> plunged into a variety of intense negative emotions including despair/anxiety/paranoia and anger.Calm to the point of being an emotional zombie and like nothing is fully satisfying and
> then something happens and your mood goes rapidly
> in a different direction everything so intense in a dysphoric/negative way you wish your brain would explode and when the emotional overload/pain is to bad you are sinking deep into anxiety/fear driven
> paranoia and rage and hopelessness and with it is so difficult to think straight ,your mind is all over the place.
> At the time you think it won't go away but it's as intense as it's short lived andb the aftermath is feeling totally useless/totally worthless/like you
> really are as bad or worse than all the negative things people have aimed at you.
> It may not last as long in length as a bout of
> 'clinical depression' but swinging between being
> emotionally zombified and emotionally too intense in a negative way is horrible and just as bad in it's own way.
>
Posted by capricorn on July 20, 2006, at 17:32:53
In reply to Re: ... with SOME normal people?, posted by laima on July 20, 2006, at 16:50:45
> It may not last as long in length as a bout of
> > 'clinical depression' but swinging between being
> > emotionally zombified and emotionally too intense in a negative way is horrible and just as bad in it's own way.
>
> --as for this, I don't know that it's a picture of "mental health", either. It's not what I'm talking about.
Thank you (not) for trivialising what i go through.
Perhaps i should make out that so called 'clinical
depression isn't a picture of 'mental health' and be just as dismissive about that.Why is it so that so many people with clinical depression are so arrogantly and stupidly dismissive of other equally bad but different modes and paths to depression?
> I agree that every human being, "normal", "well adjusted" or not (if there are such easily definable things) goes through periods of suffering, but I don't think they are all "clinically depressed". I don't know how to further express myself without opening up a can of worms ready for gross misinterpretation and hurt feelings, so I think I best leave the topic before it gets out of hand. Obviously I am not communicating effectively and it might be best for me to drop this. Sincerely sorry I touched the subject.
Ditto with a large capital D. I feel totally invalidated and trivialised.I wish i had never talked about the emotional pain etc i go through .
It's obvious i don't belong here .Best i leave .
>
>
> > >
> > > I know all of humanity goes through bad times and suffers- I just think there is a difference between understandable low moments in people who otherwise cope very well with life vs those prone to casually exclaiming "I'm Soooo depressed I missed that movie", etc., vs clinical, debilitating ongoing depression. People use that term, "depressed" casually sometimes.
> >
> >
> > I'm not talking about 'missing movies' or that kind of thing but the depression and emotional distress that can eat you up inside because you are so emotionally hyersensitive due to either emotional/physical or sexual abuse that you can be
> > plunged into a variety of intense negative emotions including despair/anxiety/paranoia and anger.Calm to the point of being an emotional zombie and like nothing is fully satisfying and
> > then something happens and your mood goes rapidly
> > in a different direction everything so intense in a dysphoric/negative way you wish your brain would explode and when the emotional overload/pain is to bad you are sinking deep into anxiety/fear driven
> > paranoia and rage and hopelessness and with it is so difficult to think straight ,your mind is all over the place.
> > At the time you think it won't go away but it's as intense as it's short lived andb the aftermath is feeling totally useless/totally worthless/like you
> > really are as bad or worse than all the negative things people have aimed at you.
> > It may not last as long in length as a bout of
> > 'clinical depression' but swinging between being
> > emotionally zombified and emotionally too intense in a negative way is horrible and just as bad in it's own way.
> >
>
>
Posted by Racer on July 20, 2006, at 18:30:34
In reply to Re: ... with SOME normal people? » Jost, posted by curtm on July 12, 2006, at 16:47:17
> I think what she was implying is that people with disroderd thinking/mental illness did it to themselves, but actually they are born with an imbalance on chemical neurotransmitter function (speaking specifically of mood disorders and addiction.)
>See, I think most depression -- endogenous or exogenous -- is an interplay between biology and environment. You may be born with the short form of the gene, but it still takes an environmental stressor to bring on the d/o.
So, while we don't "bring it on ourselves," there is a part that environment plays, and our behavior does play a contributing role -- for good, as well as for ill; that's why therapy is good for what ails us.
Yes, biology counts. But if I took an infant born with the gene coding for depression, and I reared him/her in a perfect for him/her environment, and there were no traumatic experiences, etc, that kid wouldn't necessarily develop depression.
Now, after I've said all that, let me also say that I get cross-eyed by some of the things people say about depression. My own aunt, when I told her I was suffering from depression, asked, "About what? You have to be depressed *about* something." (Implication I got: "therefore, you're not depressed..." Dang, wish it were that easy, huh?) There is a lot of ignorance about it, and it does both contribute to the stigma against mental illness, and make that much more difficult the lives of those of us with mental illness.
Hope someone agrees with something I said there...
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2006, at 18:46:11
In reply to Re: ... with SOME normal people?, posted by capricorn on July 20, 2006, at 17:32:53
> Thank you (not) for trivialising what i go through.
I understand that you are upset. However, I must ask you to please respect the views of others even if you think they're wrong. Please be sensitive to their feelings even if yours are hurt.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
There are also tips in there about what to do when you're feeling angry.
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
Dinah, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by laima on July 20, 2006, at 19:12:34
In reply to I think that's only part of the story... » curtm, posted by Racer on July 20, 2006, at 18:30:34
If you are talking about me (laima), I obviously have a problem communicating clearly. I originally wanted to express that I feel awful that some people in my life seem to be accusing or suggesting I have caused my own disfunction/mental illness issues, that I am faking, lazy, looking for attention, and so on. Some of these people have just plain shunned me or keep themselves distant or are judgemental, as if a "pep talk" can end a serious depression. I think some people toss around terms like "depressed" casually, and I think that practice does many of us who genuinely struggle with depression or other mood disorder a great injustice by confusing what "depression" is. Yes, every human suffers, but not everyone has their life disintigrate into a persistent disfunction as a result. I have experienced that some people out there who have never experienced persistent, severe depression don't even seem to believe in it and actually trivialize this sort of suffering and blame the sufferer. They get frustrated if one doesn't "snap out of it" after a period of time. I have experienced that some blame the sufferer. I apologize enourmously if it didn't sound that way, and for offending any of you. I am very sorry for my clutzy communication. English isn't even my native language and I don't have a great way with words always anyway. I obviously will be more cautious going forward-and would have said nothing at all had I guessed it could be misconstrued. I don't know what else to say.
> > I think what she was implying is that people with disroderd thinking/mental illness did it to themselves, but actually they are born with an imbalance on chemical neurotransmitter function (speaking specifically of mood disorders and addiction.)As for the above comment, I couldn't disagree more. Whatever the reason, some people really persistently suffer, while some others, lucky them, process grief or stress effectively and move on to live functional and fulfilling lives. I've met them, and I wish I was one of them. It seems clear that everyone suffers at some point, but not everyone developes a genuine, baffeling, persistent and debilitating mood disorder.
> See, I think most depression -- endogenous or exogenous -- is an interplay between biology and environment. You may be born with the short form of the gene, but it still takes an environmental stressor to bring on the d/o.Environmental factors are something that certainly exasperate my own depression...but while no expert, I don't think there are any easy answers and I am not interested in judging anyone suffering..I just wish people who were not genuinely depressed didn't trivialize, judge, or over-simplify the suffering of severe clinical depression. It's not like one can easily be "talked out of it" or something. I do think that by tossing the word "depression" about casually, they do us a dis-service. Again, while no expert, I don't believe that "grief" and "depression" are the same thing--even if they are both awful.
> So, while we don't "bring it on ourselves," there is a part that environment plays, and our behavior does play a contributing role -- for good, as well as for ill; that's why therapy is good for what ails us.
>
> Yes, biology counts. But if I took an infant born with the gene coding for depression, and I reared him/her in a perfect for him/her environment, and there were no traumatic experiences, etc, that kid wouldn't necessarily develop depression.I agree enthusiastically.
> Now, after I've said all that, let me also say that I get cross-eyed by some of the things people say about depression. My own aunt, when I told her I was suffering from depression, asked, "About what? You have to be depressed *about* something." (Implication I got: "therefore, you're not depressed..." Dang, wish it were that easy, huh?)That's exactly what I struggle with...I've experienced similar. And some people, such a my aunt, seem to get irked if their pep-talk doesn't result in sudden, fresh mental wellness. As if one needs something to be "depressed about". That is EXACTLY what I meant to express that the casual and ill-informed use of the term "depressed" encourages.
>There is a lot of ignorance about it, and it does both contribute >to the stigma against mental illness, and make that much more >difficult the lives of those of us with mental illness.
>
> Hope someone agrees with something I said there...
Perhaps this is a futile discussion of semantics?
Posted by Racer on July 20, 2006, at 20:12:52
In reply to Re: I think that's only part of the story... » Racer, posted by laima on July 20, 2006, at 19:12:34
Sorry about that -- and I thought your posts were very clear, and I think we wrote largely the same things, only in different words maybe?
I was responding to Curt's post. (When I'm confused about what someone's responding to, I often click on the link to at the top -- where it shows what someone's responding to.) The "she" in the paragraph quoted wasn't you -- it was Curt's friend/coworker, the one mentioned in the first post.
sorry for the misunderstanding -- and a note: I'm late, didn't have time to read all you wrote, but I will when I get back. If there's anything I need to answer, I'll do so then. I just didn't want to wait utnil then to let you know I wasn't writing about you...
Posted by sleepygirl on July 20, 2006, at 21:27:11
In reply to Re: ... with SOME normal people?, posted by capricorn on July 20, 2006, at 17:32:53
I'm not sure more rigid distinctions are necessary, since both have their biological basis??
I relate to both types as described.
Posted by Racer on July 21, 2006, at 1:29:05
In reply to Re: I think that's only part of the story... » Racer, posted by laima on July 20, 2006, at 19:12:34
> If you are talking about me (laima), I obviously have a problem communicating clearly.
I disagree with this part -- I think you did express yourself pretty well. ;-)
>I originally wanted to express that I feel awful that some people in my life seem to be accusing or suggesting I have caused my own disfunction/mental illness issues, that I am faking, lazy, looking for attention, and so on. Some of these people have just plain shunned me or keep themselves distant or are judgemental, as if a "pep talk" can end a serious depression.
LOL! Yeh, well, try it with anorexia... "All you have to do is eat something, you can do that, surely?" Wow! It's that simple? Hallelujah!! I'm CURED!!!!
Yes, not only do some people truly think that a pep talk will cure you, but some will tell you what worked for them, because it's guaranteed to work for you -- oh, yeah, taking country line dancing lessons will fix all my problems... (why isn't there an emoticon for crossed eyes?)
I dunno. I think many people act out of fear, even if that isn't clear at the time.
But a lot of people act from good intentions, especially when they do the pep talk thing. (My aunt is a great example -- one of her pep talks to my husband, telling him how to fix me, was the immediate precursor to a suicide attempt on my part...) They mean well, poor ignorant dears...
>I think some people toss around terms like "depressed" casually, and I think that practice does many of us who genuinely struggle with depression or other mood disorder a great injustice by confusing what "depression" is. Yes, every human suffers, but not everyone has their life disintigrate into a persistent disfunction as a result.
Yes. I agree. And the people who do say things like, "oh, I'm soooo depressed," when they really mean, "oh, I'm bored..." or "oh, I'm disatisfied by what's happening right now," really do a diservice to all us. But I won't go into that, because I'm wearing slippers, and if I do, I'll have to go get shoes to bang on the table...
>>I am very sorry for my clutzy communication. English isn't even my native language and I don't have a great way with words always anyway.Your English is excellent. The subject matter is sensitive, and I think this may have been a case where the topic brings up strong feelings that sometimes can cloud the reading -- largely because, I think, we've all experienced some form of the thing you're describing.
>
>
>
> Perhaps this is a futile discussion of semantics?
>Again, I think what you wrote was pretty clear. I do think there was one sentence that may have been confusing, but only the one. And even with that, it was still understandable.
Heck -- you do better than a lot of native English speakers...
Posted by laima on July 21, 2006, at 7:46:02
In reply to Re: I think that's only part of the story... » laima, posted by Racer on July 21, 2006, at 1:29:05
Thank you for your post, and for letting me know you understood the sentiment that I was trying to share and convey- I was getting really nervous there.> > If you are talking about me (laima), I obviously have a problem communicating clearly.
>
> I disagree with this part -- I think you did express yourself pretty well. ;-)
>
> >I originally wanted to express that I feel awful that some people in my life seem to be accusing or suggesting I have caused my own disfunction/mental illness issues, that I am faking, lazy, looking for attention, and so on. Some of these people have just plain shunned me or keep themselves distant or are judgemental, as if a "pep talk" can end a serious depression.
>
> LOL! Yeh, well, try it with anorexia... "All you have to do is eat something, you can do that, surely?" Wow! It's that simple? Hallelujah!! I'm CURED!!!!
>
> Yes, not only do some people truly think that a pep talk will cure you, but some will tell you what worked for them, because it's guaranteed to work for you -- oh, yeah, taking country line dancing lessons will fix all my problems... (why isn't there an emoticon for crossed eyes?)
>
> I dunno. I think many people act out of fear, even if that isn't clear at the time.
>
> But a lot of people act from good intentions, especially when they do the pep talk thing. (My aunt is a great example -- one of her pep talks to my husband, telling him how to fix me, was the immediate precursor to a suicide attempt on my part...) They mean well, poor ignorant dears...
>
> >I think some people toss around terms like "depressed" casually, and I think that practice does many of us who genuinely struggle with depression or other mood disorder a great injustice by confusing what "depression" is. Yes, every human suffers, but not everyone has their life disintigrate into a persistent disfunction as a result.
>
> Yes. I agree. And the people who do say things like, "oh, I'm soooo depressed," when they really mean, "oh, I'm bored..." or "oh, I'm disatisfied by what's happening right now," really do a diservice to all us. But I won't go into that, because I'm wearing slippers, and if I do, I'll have to go get shoes to bang on the table...
>
>
> >>I am very sorry for my clutzy communication. English isn't even my native language and I don't have a great way with words always anyway.
>
> Your English is excellent. The subject matter is sensitive, and I think this may have been a case where the topic brings up strong feelings that sometimes can cloud the reading -- largely because, I think, we've all experienced some form of the thing you're describing.
> >
> >
> >
> > Perhaps this is a futile discussion of semantics?
> >
>
> Again, I think what you wrote was pretty clear. I do think there was one sentence that may have been confusing, but only the one. And even with that, it was still understandable.
>
> Heck -- you do better than a lot of native English speakers...
Posted by laima on July 21, 2006, at 7:52:23
In reply to Sorry... Little misunderstanding... » laima, posted by Racer on July 20, 2006, at 20:12:52
Thank you for your response- I guess I get a little confused on the posts over who is writing to who sometimes and started really panicking over accidently causing offense. I suspect that we likely were writing about very similar phenomena with perhaps slightly different words. Oh- and thanks for the tip about how to try to figure out who is writing to who.> Sorry about that -- and I thought your posts were very clear, and I think we wrote largely the same things, only in different words maybe?
>
> I was responding to Curt's post. (When I'm confused about what someone's responding to, I often click on the link to at the top -- where it shows what someone's responding to.) The "she" in the paragraph quoted wasn't you -- it was Curt's friend/coworker, the one mentioned in the first post.
>
> sorry for the misunderstanding -- and a note: I'm late, didn't have time to read all you wrote, but I will when I get back. If there's anything I need to answer, I'll do so then. I just didn't want to wait utnil then to let you know I wasn't writing about you...
Posted by laima on July 21, 2006, at 8:07:54
In reply to Re: ... with SOME normal people?, posted by capricorn on July 20, 2006, at 17:32:53
If I talk about depression, it's because what I know and I think that's what this thread started with. I in no way meant to exclude or invalidate you or anyone else here. When I said "clinical depression", who knows if I was even using the term correctly. I meant to distinguish those of us who are actively, even desperately seeking relief from psychiatrists and other mental health professionals, those of us who have a hard time, if not an utterly impaired time, trying to function in daily life, trying to pep ourselves into keeping up the struggle, and so on. And yes, I realize all depressed people are not seeking help, and that all people seeking help are not "depressed", but rather suffering in other ways. I have been frustrated that there are people out there who can't comprehend why some of us can't just "snap out of it". I again apologize if my use of language was unclear.
> > It may not last as long in length as a bout of
> > > 'clinical depression' but swinging between being
> > > emotionally zombified and emotionally too intense in a negative way is horrible and just as bad in it's own way.
> >
> > --as for this, I don't know that it's a picture of "mental health", either. It's not what I'm talking about.
>
>
> Thank you (not) for trivialising what i go through.
> Perhaps i should make out that so called 'clinical
> depression isn't a picture of 'mental health' and be just as dismissive about that.
>
> Why is it so that so many people with clinical depression are so arrogantly and stupidly dismissive of other equally bad but different modes and paths to depression?
>
> > I agree that every human being, "normal", "well adjusted" or not (if there are such easily definable things) goes through periods of suffering, but I don't think they are all "clinically depressed". I don't know how to further express myself without opening up a can of worms ready for gross misinterpretation and hurt feelings, so I think I best leave the topic before it gets out of hand. Obviously I am not communicating effectively and it might be best for me to drop this. Sincerely sorry I touched the subject.
>
>
> Ditto with a large capital D. I feel totally invalidated and trivialised.I wish i had never talked about the emotional pain etc i go through .
> It's obvious i don't belong here .
>
> Best i leave .
>
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > > I know all of humanity goes through bad times and suffers- I just think there is a difference between understandable low moments in people who otherwise cope very well with life vs those prone to casually exclaiming "I'm Soooo depressed I missed that movie", etc., vs clinical, debilitating ongoing depression. People use that term, "depressed" casually sometimes.
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm not talking about 'missing movies' or that kind of thing but the depression and emotional distress that can eat you up inside because you are so emotionally hyersensitive due to either emotional/physical or sexual abuse that you can be
> > > plunged into a variety of intense negative emotions including despair/anxiety/paranoia and anger.Calm to the point of being an emotional zombie and like nothing is fully satisfying and
> > > then something happens and your mood goes rapidly
> > > in a different direction everything so intense in a dysphoric/negative way you wish your brain would explode and when the emotional overload/pain is to bad you are sinking deep into anxiety/fear driven
> > > paranoia and rage and hopelessness and with it is so difficult to think straight ,your mind is all over the place.
> > > At the time you think it won't go away but it's as intense as it's short lived andb the aftermath is feeling totally useless/totally worthless/like you
> > > really are as bad or worse than all the negative things people have aimed at you.
> > > It may not last as long in length as a bout of
> > > 'clinical depression' but swinging between being
> > > emotionally zombified and emotionally too intense in a negative way is horrible and just as bad in it's own way.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by AuntieMel on July 21, 2006, at 9:14:37
In reply to What is it with people?, posted by curtm on July 12, 2006, at 15:25:21
Maybe we should look at these things as opportunities to educate people.
"People who don't know, who say it's self-indulgence, sound callous, but it's not callousness born of indifference; I think it's callousness born of ignorance. That kind of ignorance we've got to get rid of, and little by little I suppose, we will. You say to them, 'It's a pity you don't know. I'm sure that if you knew, I'm sure that if you knew, not only wouldn't you say that, you'd try to help in one way or another.'" - Mike Wallace, On the Edge of Darkness
Maybe it's a good time to re-post this one, too.
Posted by Declan on July 23, 2006, at 15:23:38
In reply to Re: ... with SOME normal people?, posted by capricorn on July 20, 2006, at 17:32:53
As far as I can see 'depression' is the sort of concept that leads to these sorts of arguments. Depression clearly happens, but since it is not a particular thing, these disagreements repeatedly arise. I can't really see that depression is more informative than saying someone is f*cked. Maybe since we have antidepressants (of whatever efficacy) the concept of depression becomes more solid than it would be in their absence. We have words that are so much more useful than those suggested by psychiatry (dysphoria!). Words like disappointment, social defeat, terror, fear, rigmarole, queasiness etc.
Normal is unreal and statistical anyway. Is it actually the case that there is a town called Normal in Illinois?
Posted by laima on July 23, 2006, at 17:29:26
In reply to Re: ... with SOME normal people?, posted by Declan on July 23, 2006, at 15:23:38
Yes! There is a town called Normal in Illinois!
But what of those people who, due to their persistent poor moods, despite heroic efforts, find themselves utterly unable to function? And then they watch their lives start to disintigrate as a result? Job loss, mystery illnesses with no medically known causes, ruined relationships...It happens! I think there is more than just one type or cause for depression anyway, if that relates to what you mean. But I agree, the language we have has some limitations, and hence, we end up with more misunderstandings than necessary.
> As far as I can see 'depression' is the sort of concept that leads to these sorts of arguments. Depression clearly happens, but since it is not a particular thing, these disagreements repeatedly arise. I can't really see that depression is more informative than saying someone is f*cked. Maybe since we have antidepressants (of whatever efficacy) the concept of depression becomes more solid than it would be in their absence. We have words that are so much more useful than those suggested by psychiatry (dysphoria!). Words like disappointment, social defeat, terror, fear, rigmarole, queasiness etc.
> Normal is unreal and statistical anyway. Is it actually the case that there is a town called Normal in Illinois?
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