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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah on January 19, 2006, at 1:59:36
In reply to Re: Nope. I've got it. » Dinah, posted by JenStar on January 18, 2006, at 23:08:55
I guess I'm at least hoping he has the grace to remember he forgot. If he doesn't I'll no doubt explode and emote all over him.
As it is, I'm still up, hours later, imagining all sorts of things about how he has *really* felt about me all these years, and resisting a very strong urge to leave a much pithier message on his machine.
Posted by Dinah on January 19, 2006, at 2:04:23
In reply to Re: Chuckle » Dinah, posted by daisym on January 18, 2006, at 23:27:12
You'd think money would get his attention. He likes it well enough. But apparently the thought of losing my lucrative income stream isn't enough, coupled with basic decency, to have him be thoughtful enough to call.
:(
I'm having one of those delayed reactions. I guess I thought in the end he'd come through and call with some lame excuse at the last minute.
I think that maybe he doesn't like me much, and I'm just a big nuisance to him.
Or maybe since I expressed sympathy for his "forgetting" to call someone else, he's testing my sincerity.
I guess I wasn't all that sincere.
Posted by Dinah on January 19, 2006, at 2:08:51
In reply to Re: Chuckle » Dinah, posted by littleone on January 18, 2006, at 23:39:28
I might give that a good try. Although with the various tranqulizing drugs I take before bed, it's sometimes hard for me to be fully awake before noon.
:(
I think I'll throw a good old fashioned pity party tomorrow with my son. Complete with "Alexander and the Terrible Horrible No Good Very Bad Day", and the rainy day plate, and too many sweets, and howling in self pity. Those usually cheer me (and him) up.
Posted by happyflower on January 19, 2006, at 4:04:27
In reply to Re: Chuckle » littleone, posted by Dinah on January 19, 2006, at 2:08:51
((((((Dinah)))))))
Well you have every right to be upset with your T. In fact I would be mad as h*ll, if it was me, I would call him up and tell him he is one big jerk, oh, wait, I already did that! ( I love your passive aggresive ways, a bit nicer, kinda sarcastic (which I love, it takes talent). If he is not keeping his obligations, then he isn't doing his job. Not calling is a horrible thing to do to a client.
I wonder what is really going on with him. He seems to be depressed or very stressed. Not that he should be allowed to let that effect your therapy. He better call you, or I would make him get on his knees and tell you how sorry he is for letting down such a sweet client(that has put up with enough of his sh*t already) He should hang his head in shame. (((((Dinah)))))))
Posted by madeline on January 19, 2006, at 6:42:43
In reply to Chuckle, posted by Dinah on January 18, 2006, at 22:23:58
How about:
Oh no,it's okay really. I decided to leave my husband and kids and I think it's the best thing for me anyway.
Worry not at all, I just went on a crime spree - and you know what? money really isn't an issue for me anymore. How wonderful is that?
Please, like I care whether you call or not.
You know, since you didn't call, I decided that reaching out for help is kinda stupid anyway. From here on out, I'm just going to take everything I feel and wad it into a little ball and keep it in the pit of my stomach. I think it is a really good life plan for me.
I just called 911. My kids really loved the lights on the ambulance.
Oh, I just figured you had decided to send me a letter instead. Postage did go up you know.
See if any of these work.
Take care,
Maddy
Posted by fallsfall on January 19, 2006, at 7:29:20
In reply to Chuckle, posted by Dinah on January 18, 2006, at 22:23:58
I love the thinly veiled hostility. How healthy to recognize your anger.
I love the idea of typing them up with checkboxes next to them. Somehow having them in writing makes them more concrete.
You need his help, but instead of helping, he is making your life more difficult. This is not what therapy is supposed to be about. He is being a boor - you (rightfully) expect more from your therapist.
Let me know if I can help with your work issues. I'd be happy to help you figure out a plan and encourage you along the way. The work stuff seems separate from the therapist stuff (though the therapist stuff makes the work stuff harder).
Good for you for telling us about your pain.
(((Dinah)))
Posted by Dinah on January 19, 2006, at 9:21:21
In reply to Re: Chuckle, posted by happyflower on January 19, 2006, at 4:04:27
I did call him actually, and left a marginally polite message that I figured that since he hadn't called me, either something horrible had happened to him that had made him incapable of fulfilling his promise, or that he was really busy and just hadn't felt like it.
And that if it were the latter, that's fine. But could he call and let me know that nothing horrible had happened to him so that I knew whether or not I should go out to his office on Sunday.
Posted by Dinah on January 19, 2006, at 9:22:19
In reply to Re: Chuckle, posted by madeline on January 19, 2006, at 6:42:43
:-)
I especially liked the last one. lol.
Posted by Dinah on January 19, 2006, at 9:27:16
In reply to Re: Chuckle, posted by fallsfall on January 19, 2006, at 7:29:20
Yeah, the work stuff is just why I need my therapist especially. But I'm glad I'm not seeing him, since seeing him when he's stressed and crabby is worse than not seeing him at all.
Actually, he just called. And I thanked him for the way he's handling things, because it's making things a lot easier for me.
Posted by annierose on January 19, 2006, at 9:56:30
In reply to Re: Chuckle » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on January 19, 2006, at 9:27:16
Making things easier how??? You were being nice?
Posted by Dinah on January 19, 2006, at 10:26:26
In reply to Re: What? » Dinah, posted by annierose on January 19, 2006, at 9:56:30
I've spoken to him many times about how parts of me tries to sabotage the therapeutic relationship. So he understood that that's what I meant. Although to be totally honest, I didn't say that from the part of me that wanted to sabotage the therapeutic relationship. I said it because I was mad and wanted to hurt him.
He politely said that it had in fact hurt him.
He called back, even though I'd asked him not to, and apologized and took responsibility for not calling me when he said he would. And he talked me into seeing him tonight, although I took three Risperdal after the original phone call, and I'll probably be an emotional zombie still tonight.
He also had the intelligence to say that while he forgot the other phone call because he just hadn't wanted to do it, that didn't mean that was always the reason, and it certainly wasn't the reason with me.
Sigh. I don't believe him, but it was polite of him to say.
Posted by Dinah on January 19, 2006, at 10:51:26
In reply to Re: What? » annierose, posted by Dinah on January 19, 2006, at 10:26:26
That lets me keep being hurt when I *know* he does this frequently and can't be relied on to do things like call when he's said he will.
If I *know* that he does this stuff all the time, not only with me, but with others, why do I expect that any particular time will be any different?
Shouldn't I expect that he won't call and be pleasantly surprised when he does?
I went through this with my mother too. So I know what I need to do. Never ever ever rely on her for anything whatsoever. Never ever ever expect her to behave like a rational human being. And then you can have an adequate relationship with her.
Posted by JenStar on January 19, 2006, at 11:27:17
In reply to Re: What? » annierose, posted by Dinah on January 19, 2006, at 10:26:26
hi Dinah,
I'm glad he's taking responsibility! And it's true that he might have "forgotten" something else b/c he wanted to, and forgotten you just out of stress/etc.I do that sometimes. There are things I sort of forget-avoid out of a desire to avoid, and other things that I truly feel BAD about forgetting, and wish I hadn't.
I wish I had advice about reliance and how to handle it. I know things have changed since the hurricane - he's just NOT the same T he used to be for you.
I don't know if that means you have to stop relying on him entirely, though? Maybe there's a happy medium? Or is that impossible (asking myself here, too..)
Is it possible to "sort of" rely on someone, or is that basically the same thing as "not" relying on them? Interesting question to ponder...
JenStar
Posted by fallsfall on January 19, 2006, at 11:28:49
In reply to I wonder what pathology it is in me, posted by Dinah on January 19, 2006, at 10:51:26
That does defeat the purpose of therapy.
You can't get a new mother, but...
Posted by JenStar on January 19, 2006, at 11:29:43
In reply to I wonder what pathology it is in me, posted by Dinah on January 19, 2006, at 10:51:26
hi Dinah,
it doesn't sound like pathology, though...just human nature.Is it possible that he's reliable long-term even if he messes up once in a while? I know he missed the call, which sucks, but is it possible that he still truly cares about you and your therapy, and intends to be there for you as long as you need?
I know it's a tough time right now. I hope you feel better.
JenStar
Posted by B2chica on January 19, 2006, at 11:29:45
In reply to I wonder what pathology it is in me, posted by Dinah on January 19, 2006, at 10:51:26
> Shouldn't I expect that he won't call and be pleasantly surprised when he does?NO, you should be able to rely on him. that's the point of therapists.
> I went through this with my mother too. So I know what I need to do. Never ever ever rely on her for anything whatsoever. Never ever ever expect her to behave like a rational human being. And then you can have an adequate relationship with her.BOY, do i hear you there. and i have to agree. i never expect any help or comfort from her, and i expect nothing less than psychopathic behavior from her. i'm ALWAYS on my guard with her.
it's too bad we have to protect ourselves like this.
((((((Hugs))))))
b2c
Posted by madeline on January 19, 2006, at 17:07:20
In reply to I wonder what pathology it is in me, posted by Dinah on January 19, 2006, at 10:51:26
And it is a truly wonderful thing.
No matter how bad your mother is/was, she didn't kill the hope in you that some people aren't like her.
Hang onto it as tightly as you can.
I think, for me at least,that when I am disappointed, it is very easy to fall into that "no one can be trusted every again, pathetic liars that they are", but, almost on command it seems, hope just bubbles right to the surface again and things aren't so bad.
I used to hate it, but now I am amazed that it wasn't killed in me either.
Take care I hope you do get to go away this weekend.
Maddy
Posted by Dinah on January 19, 2006, at 20:01:43
In reply to I don't think it's pathology. I think it is hope., posted by madeline on January 19, 2006, at 17:07:20
The session tonight was a lot, although not all, about this.
He doesn't want me to lower my expectations, or to do my second choice, which was to say no to any plan that involved him remembering to call me. He says he thinks we've entered a more collaborative phase of therapy, and that I should take more responsibility for getting my needs met with him. He wants me to call if he doesn't call me if we had discussed meeting, and ask if the meeting was still possible or if circumstances had changed, instead of waiting and getting angry. He says my usual strategy for dealing with disappointment and hurt was to lower my expectations, and he'd like me to try another one.
I guess that's no worse feeling than lowered expectations (although it seems a variant of lowered expectations to me). But it will be hard for me to overcome the feeling that I'm being a nag or pest, when he's the one with the higher position of authority. I'll try.
He also wondered aloud if his recent therapeutic strategy of increased therapeutic transparency was the wisest choice given the fact that I took what he said about another situation and applied it to me. I'm glad he has a thought out plan regarding it. I wasn't sure. I still don't quite understand what he said in that regard. But as long as he has a plan, I guess I'll trust him to know what he's doing.
Posted by Dinah on January 19, 2006, at 23:43:25
In reply to Thanks everyone, posted by Dinah on January 19, 2006, at 20:01:43
Will I ever feel better?
I'm going to try alchohol this time.
Posted by fallsfall on January 20, 2006, at 16:54:17
In reply to Thanks everyone, posted by Dinah on January 19, 2006, at 20:01:43
I think that there is some validity to your therapist's plan. But at the same time, parts of it bother me.
> He doesn't want me to lower my expectations, or to do my second choice, which was to say no to any plan that involved him remembering to call me. He says he thinks we've entered a more collaborative phase of therapy, and that I should take more responsibility for getting my needs met with him.
*** This sounds like a cop out on his part. He can't be reliable, so he makes it your job to make him reliable...
He wants me to call if he doesn't call me if we had discussed meeting, and ask if the meeting was still possible or if circumstances had changed, instead of waiting and getting angry.
*** This is an unusual model for therapy.
>He says my usual strategy for dealing with disappointment and hurt was to lower my expectations, and he'd like me to try another one.
*** This I *DO* agree with. I like the idea of you sticking up for yourself. I like the idea of you using a different strategy. I like the idea of you NOT lowering your expectations.
>
> I guess that's no worse feeling than lowered expectations (although it seems a variant of lowered expectations to me).*** Yes, it does seem like a variant of lowering expectations...
But it will be hard for me to overcome the feeling that I'm being a nag or pest, when he's the one with the higher position of authority. I'll try.
*** This actually would probably be a valuable lesson. Just because someone is in authority doesn't mean that they always know best. There is a balance, where you have to learn how the authority figure says "That's enough, it's my decision to make". And that is something that each person does a little differently.
>
> He also wondered aloud if his recent therapeutic strategy of increased therapeutic transparency was the wisest choice given the fact that I took what he said about another situation and applied it to me. I'm glad he has a thought out plan regarding it. I wasn't sure. I still don't quite understand what he said in that regard. But as long as he has a plan, I guess I'll trust him to know what he's doing.*** Yes, it is nice that he has a plan. Personally, I think he took the plan too far...
*** It sounds like it was a valuable session in that some important things were discussed. I'm glad.
Posted by fallsfall on January 20, 2006, at 16:55:38
In reply to So why don't I feel any better, posted by Dinah on January 19, 2006, at 23:43:25
> Will I ever feel better?
>
> I'm going to try alchohol this time.(((Dinah))) I believe that you WILL feel better.
Alchohol is a risky coping mechanism.... Can I help?
Posted by Dinah on January 20, 2006, at 17:27:59
In reply to Re: Thanks everyone, posted by fallsfall on January 20, 2006, at 16:54:17
I think I agree with you.
> *** Yes, it does seem like a variant of lowering expectations...
The more I think of it, it seems exactly like lowering expectations. It's just lowering expectations and doing what I can to get what I want or need anyway. Instead of lowering expectations and withdrawing.
Sort of like changing tactics when you know your spouse will never change in say, picking up. You can change from picking up for them to tolerating the mess, or vice versa.
>
> But it will be hard for me to overcome the feeling that I'm being a nag or pest, when he's the one with the higher position of authority. I'll try.
>
> *** This actually would probably be a valuable lesson. Just because someone is in authority doesn't mean that they always know best. There is a balance, where you have to learn how the authority figure says "That's enough, it's my decision to make". And that is something that each person does a little differently.Yeah. I think I tend to read what he says as disapproval. So that if I call him because he hadn't called me yet and he says "I was going to call you as soon as I..." I take that as saying I shouldn't have called. He said I should take it as him saying that we were on the same page. So maybe he's saying that I should ask instead of assuming.
> > He also wondered aloud if his recent therapeutic strategy of increased therapeutic transparency was the wisest choice given the fact that I took what he said about another situation and applied it to me. I'm glad he has a thought out plan regarding it. I wasn't sure. I still don't quite understand what he said in that regard. But as long as he has a plan, I guess I'll trust him to know what he's doing.
>
> *** Yes, it is nice that he has a plan. Personally, I think he took the plan too far...I hate it when they use psychological jargon that can either mean more than one thing, or that I don't quite grasp. I followed up a little bit, but still didn't understand, and there were things I wanted to talk about more, so I let it drop.
Plus, I guess I like the result, so I don't really want him to rethink it. Plus, he didn't like the way I reflected what I thought he said. And I'd had enough drama for the day to want to risk being wrong again. Especially since the "wrong" was apparently insulting to him. (See, I understand psychological jargon so little that I don't even understand what *I* said.)
>
> *** It sounds like it was a valuable session in that some important things were discussed. I'm glad.Yeah, I think it was. And although I left feeling unsatisfied and anxious, I feel surprisingly better today. I haven't needed tranquilizers at all. Even with a partial day at the office, and some rather gutsy conversations with my boss. I was rather direct about saying that we worker bees are ill prepared for what they're asking us to do (I'm not the only one who thinks so), and that we should be given more direction. I don't think he was altogether happy with what I said. And still I'm ok.
I really do do better with regular therapy. There's something about support or containment or something that I'm not sure I understand.
Posted by Dinah on January 20, 2006, at 17:28:29
In reply to Re: Thanks everyone, posted by Dinah on January 20, 2006, at 17:27:59
Posted by Dinah on January 20, 2006, at 17:33:37
In reply to Re: So why don't I feel any better, posted by fallsfall on January 20, 2006, at 16:55:38
I didn't have a drink after all. I used my husband as a great big lovey instead, and held him tight till I fell asleep.
But I'm working on a new theory that I'm going to try to test over the next few days. I'm thinking that when I separate totally from my emotions, and get really rational, I get way more anxiety. And that when I'm more in touch with my emotions, I may be more depressed, but I have less anxiety.
The Risperdal is causing me to be out of touch with my emotions, and while I need it, I think I need to find other ways to stay "grounded" with emotions, instead of flying off into rationality and the resultant anxiety.
So... Part of how I prepare for therapy is with music. When I quit thinking, and my brain just responds to the music, left to right ear, higher and lower notes, I am way more open to emotional experiences. My theory is that if I sleep with the same sort of music playing, and concentrate on it before falling asleep, I may not be as anxious overnight.
At any rate it's something to try.
Posted by happyflower on January 25, 2006, at 18:53:26
In reply to Re: So why don't I feel any better » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on January 20, 2006, at 17:33:37
Dinah,
I think using music this way is an excellent way to help. It can be any kind of music too that you like.
When I started to play the trumpet again, I started crying, because it brought open my feelings that I haven't felt in a long time. Not just sad feelings either, good feelings.
Music is a very emotional thing. Listening is very good for your health in a lot of ways. Let us know how you are doing with your experiment. :) (((((((Dinah))))
This is the end of the thread.
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