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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 21:56:22
In reply to I also told him, posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 21:53:58
I'm *really* not very nice in superrational mode. Not nice to or about him and not nice to or about myself.
I guess he probably already knows that and won't hold it against me, right?
Posted by muffled on December 12, 2005, at 22:07:29
In reply to Sigh, posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 21:56:22
Posted by sleepygirl on December 12, 2005, at 22:16:18
In reply to I used Babble a whole lot, posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 21:36:26
I'm sorry, just trying to understand...were you angry when you explained it "bluntly" as you say or just sort of removed in a "super-rational" way because the topic is sensitive? Do you feel like you said too much? that it was understood?
are you embarrassed? are these too many questions :-)?
Posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 22:20:04
In reply to Re: I used Babble a whole lot » Dinah, posted by sleepygirl on December 12, 2005, at 22:16:18
I think I was rude and overly blunt, both to myself and to him. I know I said too much, and I knew it at the time. Superrational me doesn't care too much for therapy and thinks rather poorly of him and doesn't make much of a secret about it.
I'm sure I've posted here extremely uncomplimentary things from time to time that seem out of character for how I usually think of my therapist? Or maybe I've been relatively careful not to...
Posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 22:22:06
In reply to RIGHT!!! (nm) » Dinah, posted by muffled on December 12, 2005, at 22:07:29
I hope so. I mean he did ask specifically knowing I was in superrational mode.
But I'll bet it's difficult to reconcile hearing things out of my mouth and understanding that at least part of me doesn't believe them at all.
Posted by sleepygirl on December 12, 2005, at 22:25:09
In reply to Re: I used Babble a whole lot » sleepygirl, posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 22:20:04
did you think you were trying to distance yourself from him and/or your feelings about not feeling special? I'm just curious, you don't have to tell me of course
Posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 22:28:26
In reply to Re: I used Babble a whole lot » Dinah, posted by sleepygirl on December 12, 2005, at 22:25:09
I was definitely bracing myself for what he was about to say, but apparently decided not to say. I don't think I was trying to divert him from saying it.
I should have said nothing and let him continue without thinking. Then I would have known what it was he was going to say about how clients weren't special.
I'm usually very careful to stay in emotional mode in therapy, partly because that's the part of me that enjoys going, but partly because I'm afraid what I'll say if I am in rational mode. :(
Posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 22:31:56
In reply to Re: I used Babble a whole lot » sleepygirl, posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 22:28:26
Aside from my embarassment at what I told him, I was scared to post this for fear of not making any sense at all. I know I don't usually talk this way. And I know it's confusing.
Posted by sleepygirl on December 12, 2005, at 22:35:36
In reply to Oh, I know I'm making no sense, posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 22:31:56
It's OK...you don't have to make too much sense, and it could be me ya know :-)
but you were embarrassed? now there's a feeling I relate to alright
Posted by annierose on December 12, 2005, at 22:37:07
In reply to Oh, I know I'm making no sense, posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 22:31:56
I think I'm following this ...
And I don't think you should feel embarassed. You shared honest feelings; if anything it may bring you closer together (as if that is possible). I'm just sad that you mentioned you might not see him for 2 weeks after next. Another long break after just re-establishing some regular appointments.
And I think I know that feeling of over-exposing one's self. It's so raw. It's like being caught naked ... YIKES!
I think you should call. It might ease your mind wanderings. So what if you're right! You know yourself better than anyone.
Posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 22:45:27
In reply to Re: Oh, I know I'm making no sense » Dinah, posted by annierose on December 12, 2005, at 22:37:07
In this case it feels more like my rational self exposed my emotional self, and hurt everyone in the process.
I'm afraid that by validating one thing I said (by calling him) I'd be validating the other things I said. And I don't really want to do that. Because maybe some of the facts were correct (and maybe some of them weren't), but the spin on the facts really wasn't correct, and I don't want my therapist to think it was. :(
Fortunately he's got a rotten memory and will have hopefully forgotten all of this, or not have taken it as seriously as I did.
It was kind of weird seeing him having trouble concentrating writing the receipt. It made me feel like it was every bit as bad as I thought it was.
But it probably wasn't. He really does have a bad memory.
Posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 22:47:33
In reply to Re: Oh, I know I'm making no sense » Dinah, posted by sleepygirl on December 12, 2005, at 22:35:36
I was humiliated.
In some ways it wasn't anything he doesn't already know. It's just that the words were so very different and so it sounded way different than how I usually think of it, and how I hope he usually thinks of it.
Posted by sleepygirl on December 12, 2005, at 22:50:58
In reply to Re: Oh, I know I'm making no sense » sleepygirl, posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 22:47:33
well I hope you'll talk to him about it some more...now when's the next time?..a while from now?
Posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 22:53:31
In reply to Re: Oh, I know I'm making no sense » Dinah, posted by sleepygirl on December 12, 2005, at 22:50:58
Thursday.
Yeah, I'm going to start by checking to see how much he remembers. Then denying anything he does remember. I think I can honestly deny believing just about everything I said.
Posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 22:56:59
In reply to Re: Oh, I know I'm making no sense » sleepygirl, posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 22:53:31
It's an area that I usually avoid visiting on Babble. And I'm sure it's confusing to everyone.
Let's all just pretend I continued to use the good sense of not talking about it here?
Posted by sleepygirl on December 12, 2005, at 23:02:19
In reply to Re: Oh, I know I'm making no sense » sleepygirl, posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 22:53:31
I hope it goes well then, "take the 5th" if you need to, but perhaps there may evolve an interesting discussion
Posted by sleepygirl on December 12, 2005, at 23:04:16
In reply to I shouldn't have said any of this, posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 22:56:59
OK I didn't read a word of it!! but I'm not shocked a bit, only wishing I could communicate some things of this quality to my T
Posted by daisym on December 13, 2005, at 0:13:19
In reply to I used Babble a whole lot, posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 21:36:26
I think you make complete sense. I've been using the Board myself a lot lately to start discussions. And I've trashed therapy, so to speak, when I'm in that place of total adult independence.
My guess is that your therapist was going to tell you that you ARE special -- and I think that scared you, probably more than hearing you *aren't* -- like you said, you try to keep some distance. What does it mean if he is emotionally invested in you too? All of you - not just emotional you?
Do you know how many clients he is seeing right now?
I think you did just fine. You were honest and blunt. It sounds like a good discussion to continue, not hide from.
I'm sorry you feel so bad.
Daisy
Posted by orchid on December 13, 2005, at 4:50:05
In reply to I used Babble a whole lot, posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 21:36:26
Sounds to me from your post that the worst thing you are afraid of is, to be a sexual human being. More than anything else.But I think, it is time for you to somehow try to accept that. That, it is ok to be a grown woman with appropriate needs.
Whatever happened with your dad or family when you were growing up, I think it is time to move past those issues and accept yourself as a 40 + woman, for whom it is ok to have sexual feelings, and it is ok for people to think you might have sexual feelings about them (your therapist included). What he does about it is his problem. But I think you are extremely scared of coming across as being flirty (in your own words), and it really need not be that much of a shame and guilt producing thing. It rather is expected, and ok for a woman to have those feelings.
I have a feeling that more than anything else you work on therapy, you probably need to focus on this aspect of yours, and it might end up solving all the other issues.
I know you have said in the past that you stubbornly refuse to grow up and be a woman, and you like yourself as a child. But do you really feel it is that dangerous? It may not be so.
(((Dinah)))
Posted by Dinah on December 13, 2005, at 7:40:21
In reply to Re: I used Babble a whole lot » Dinah, posted by orchid on December 13, 2005, at 4:50:05
No, that's not it.
I tend to be of the once bitten twice shy school, and one time in the ten plus years I've seen him he's taken something I said and made it ugly and sexual. So I'm always afraid he'll do it again. But I should have known he wouldn't.
It was to do with betraying my own trust that bothered me. That and embarassing me. And being rude.
But I think youi had to have been there to understand. Or at least know a bunch of things I really don't disclose here on Babble.
Posted by Dinah on December 13, 2005, at 7:52:08
In reply to Re: I used Babble a whole lot » Dinah, posted by daisym on December 13, 2005, at 0:13:19
I think he wasn't going to tell me I was special. He was relaxed and not guarded and I think he was going to slip up and say something hurtful. Something that didn't necessarily need to be said, but that I probably need to hear. Not about me in particular.
I shouldn't have run away. I should have known what would happen, given what's going on. My rational self is not at all happy that I've decided to try to re-establish the relationship that was weakened by the six weeks without seeing him. My rational self thought I should have used that time to break free, with or without another therapist, it didn't matter. And my rational self is *really* p.o.'d that I would consider my therapist when making the family decision of whether or not to move. And even more about the plans my emotional self is making to try to stop that move. When my rational self doesn't even think my therapist can be relied on to be there. There's a whole lot of anger that came out both directly and in the point of view of the "facts" I was relaying.
My rational self might have been honest, but my rational self's truth doesn't necessarily reflect my emotional self's truth at all. Far from it. And I'm afraid that although he knows intellectually that that is true, he might not know that in his gut. I'm far more eloquent in rational mode. :(
Posted by happyflower on December 13, 2005, at 12:01:26
In reply to Re: I used Babble a whole lot » daisym, posted by Dinah on December 13, 2005, at 7:52:08
I could be off base here, so I appolize if I am . But it seems like you might feel angry for wanting to be special to him. Maybe you really want him to tell you that you are without you "asking" or promting him. I am sure you mean a lot to him, but sometimes we need to hear it I think. But then there is always that self dought, that says why would I even matter, I am just a client to him. Its a circle of emotions.
Posted by Dinah on December 13, 2005, at 18:32:39
In reply to Re: I used Babble a whole lot, posted by happyflower on December 13, 2005, at 12:01:26
Happyflower, thanks for caring enough to respond.
I do know that he cares about me. He's proved that over the last six months or so to my satisfaction. But I also know that his guard was down and he was about to say the sort of thing he would ordinarily screen out of his therapeutic comments to me. Because we weren't talking about our relationship specifically. We were talking about therapy in general.
I had that sort of horrified fascination you might feel at overhearing therapists talk to each other about us. Shudder.
Posted by Tamar on December 14, 2005, at 17:48:54
In reply to I used Babble a whole lot, posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 21:36:26
I’m very late to this thread; sorry. There’s been something at the back of my mind and I’ve been trying to ‘catch’ it.
There were a few things that occurred to me; I don’t know how often he encounters ‘rational’ you, but if he’s not used to it, maybe that’s why he was disconcerted?
Can you revisit the conversation and try to discover what it was he was going to say that perhaps you needed to hear? Or has the moment passed?
The thing that I was trying to ‘catch’ in my mind finally came to me: it was the thing you mentioned before: your feelings when you heard him casually tell his wife he loved her. I don’t know why, but it seems to me that it’s connected with what was going on in this session.
I’ve been thinking about that from time to time. And trying to imagine how I’d feel if I heard my therapist tell his wife he loved her. And I think I’d feel I wanted that kind of love in my life. Not necessarily from my therapist (who am I kidding?) but realistically from my partner. And of course my partner *does* love me, but I think I want therapeutic love mixed in with partner-love.
I wish I could get a better handle on why this thing about love seems relevant to your session. But of course, maybe I’m clutching at straws.
Tamar
Posted by Dinah on December 14, 2005, at 18:04:40
In reply to Re: I used Babble a whole lot » Dinah, posted by Tamar on December 14, 2005, at 17:48:54
Maybe because both times he was being authentic him and not therapeutic him? He would never in a million years tell me all the ways I wasn't special to him, and would only exceedingly rarely tell me the ways I was. In fact, he goes out of his way to add "and all my clients" after "you". I got really mad at him once about that. I told him that if I'd been fighting to relationship with him for ten years, and still didn't mean any more to him than someone who'd been seeing him for eight weeks, that I sure had wasted my time. He's been more ok with telling me the ways I am special since then, at least occasionally.
I have this book called "Shrink Rap" that I love and hate to read. They mail a set of questions to a group of therapists and published their replies in a book. The results ranged from inspiring to horrifying, with a bit more on the horrifying side. Rational me is *always* telling emotional me that if I heard his casual comments to other professionals, it would cure me of my attachment because it would be on the horrifying side. I guess I figured I was about to hear that.
He'd never admit it, but I'm quite sure that he doesn't care all that much for rational me. Rational me says pretty rotten things about him, both behind his back and to his face. And he gets seriously irritated at the undermining. Even though he asked rational me why I did it, I'm not sure he was really braced for an answer. :)
I don't know if you were here then, but I once accidentally gave him a post where I said that both emotional me and rational me think he's a boob, but in different senses of the word. I thought I'd die in embarassment.
He seems to take it all pretty well, but maybe it was hard for him to appear to take it pretty well, and that's why he was shaky.
I'll ask him tomorrow, because I never tire of trashing rational me behind her back, so to speak.
And I made it! I didn't call him! I proved me wrong! Happy dance, happy dance. Even though it was a terribly distressing week, and yesterday I not only ate to excess, but took Risperdal, Klonopin, and a drink.
Thanks Tamar. I always value your opinion.
(I guess it's obvious from the fact that I can see the humor in this that I'm much better medicated than I was before.)
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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