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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by orchid on December 10, 2005, at 1:17:33
In reply to Feeling silly in a sad way, posted by annierose on December 9, 2005, at 18:41:06
Sorry about not getting to see your T. It is hard to understand the kind of attachment clients get to the Ts isn't it.
But I think you should perhaps talk about this in your therapy and may be that will help work on it. But is it bothering you - the kind of attachment? Or are you ok with it? Is your T aware of/ok with this as well?
Posted by LauraBeane on December 10, 2005, at 9:37:09
In reply to Feeling silly in a sad way, posted by annierose on December 9, 2005, at 18:41:06
It's funny how panicked everyone seems to get these days about a little snow. My daughter's school was closed on Friday too. I want to tell the board to get over it! The snow just wasn't that bad.
Sorry you had to miss your appt. The fact that she hesitated, trying to come up with an alternative, does indicate something. My T would just say, "Okay! Do what you need to do to take care of yourself!" I hate that.
Posted by annierose on December 10, 2005, at 14:23:50
In reply to Re: Feeling silly in a sad way » annierose, posted by orchid on December 10, 2005, at 1:17:33
Yes, I do share all these feelings with my T. She knows how I feel and she would say it is a healthy attachment. For me, it's uncomfortable because I went through my life seemingly needing nobody. I am more than okay with my attachment for her. She's my harbor in a storm.
Posted by annierose on December 10, 2005, at 14:27:33
In reply to Re: Feeling silly in a sad way » annierose, posted by Shortelise on December 9, 2005, at 23:07:04
I really don't resent the money issue. Luckily, my husband and I do have solid jobs with health insurance (although my therapy limit is fast approaching). I am lucky that she has choosen this to be her profession and she deserves to be paid for her time and skills. If she didn't have paying clients, she wouldn't be available to me.
That being said, if she would have charged me for missing this appointment, I would have resented that. I have never missed an appointment and have only been late once (and I go 3x per week). I wanted to go, just couldn't find a baby sitter.
Posted by daisym on December 11, 2005, at 0:21:12
In reply to Feeling silly in a sad way, posted by annierose on December 9, 2005, at 18:41:06
Too bad you couldn't do a phone session instead. It is interesting sometimes to try those. I usually sit on my couch, with a pillow in my lap. I think I am soooo lucky that my therapist does great phone work!
He would say on Monday -- "I missed our time together." I hope she says that to you too. In the meantime, I hope you picked out a terrific tree and made hot chocolate with candy canes.
Posted by annierose on December 11, 2005, at 15:43:59
In reply to Re: Feeling silly in a sad way » annierose, posted by daisym on December 11, 2005, at 0:21:12
HI Dasiy -
We did get a nice Christmas tree, but then, my kids kind of fell apart (irritating each other and me as well), so the decorating part was put on hold until the next day.
I'm looking forward to our session tomorrow. I doubt she would say, "I missed our time together" although that would feel nice. I will tell her that.
This afternoon was my daughter's birthday party ... 8 girls @ 12 years of age ... so glad that it's over with!!! Most of the girls are new friends from middle school. Went well. Glad it's done. She hasn't wanted a party in a couple of years, so it's nice she had friends to invite.
Posted by Dinah on December 11, 2005, at 15:57:56
In reply to Re: Feeling silly in a sad way » daisym, posted by annierose on December 11, 2005, at 15:43:59
You are one grand mom! Eight twelve year olds!
Seriously, I'm really glad that she's making lots of friends at her new school. Middle school is such a rough time that fitting in is extra special important.
I used your snow day example, and what we wish therapists would say, in therapy today. If I can get over the excruciating embarassment, I'll write about it.
Posted by annierose on December 11, 2005, at 20:08:45
In reply to Re: Feeling silly in a sad way » annierose, posted by Dinah on December 11, 2005, at 15:57:56
I hope you do write about it ... I'd love to hear it ... it could help me in my session tomorrow!
And the girls were polite. Since only one girl knew me and my husband, I think it put everyone on their best behavior .. i.e. no one was too comfortable at first.
I am thrilled for my daughter. She is so happy now, it's such a pleasure. Well, she's not perfect. She still thinks I am ruining her life (won't get her a cell phone). But on the whole, I'm happy for her.
Posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 9:01:45
In reply to Re: Feeling silly in a sad way » Dinah, posted by annierose on December 11, 2005, at 20:08:45
I'm thrilled for your daughter too. I've gotten quite fond of her hearing about her from you.
I'll try to write, but I'm still squirming in embarassment. I swear, he was having trouble writing out my receipt at the end of teh session. He kept stopping and restarting in his own signature. :(
Posted by annierose on December 12, 2005, at 16:24:55
In reply to Re: Feeling silly in a sad way » annierose, posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 9:01:45
First, a side to Dinah - you have me really curious. I hope you find the courage to share that experience with me.
I started today's session telling her that it was really hard missing my appointment on Friday. She seemed to gloss right over that thought and asked me if I was feeling better that the week was behind me. I had told her a few times that last week was going to be "one of those weeks". Every evening I had someplace other than home that I had to be. I found it hard to answer her questions, and told her I felt "frozen". Then she asked, "Is there something going on between us that keeping you from talking today?" I brought up again our conversation on Friday.
I told her that she didn't seem disappointed that I cancelled. She said that "Of course I was disappointed. I do remember trying to see if we could reschedule, but then you said it'd be easier just to cancel." I said, "It was Friday, I see you on Monday, how could we reschedule?" She was hoping I would add an appointment on Tuesday. I kept myself closed throughout most of the session. I even told her that this would be one of the sessions that I will leave, frustrated and angry, that she wasn't getting at what I was trying to express.
So we went over again the phone conversation. I let her know that she didn't express much warmth or genuine compassion. She reiterated that she was disappointed that I cancelled and she knew that I had tried very hard to make arrangements for my kids. I said, "I don't think you understand how difficult it was for me to not be there." Her reply, "Hmmm." YIKERS!@! ARGGHHH!!
I changed the subject to my husband's company party that was last night. Five minutes upon arriving, a waitress offered me an hor d'oeuvre of "pheasant dumplings". I shook my head no and replied, "that doesn't appeal to me" and one of my husbands's newer female bosses said to us, "You (pointing at my husband) are the pheasant and you (pointing at me) are the dumpling." WHAT IN THE WORLD WAS THAT??? I walked away. My T quickly pointed out, "Your mind went from feeling hurt over Friday to feeling criticized at that party. That's a disguise of old pain. I don't even know what she meant by that comment, but it's not about you."
Whatever. This was one of those sessions that I'd rather not have experienced. Just not there. And I do think it has more to do with me, than her ... so I think that's progress ... but I feel like running away from therapy. I used to quit all the time when I saw this T YEARS AGO. So after two years, I haven't quit yet. But I sure feel like it.
Posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 18:16:48
In reply to What happened today ...., posted by annierose on December 12, 2005, at 16:24:55
Sounds dreadful, Annierose. I hate it when they just don't get it.
It sounds a lot like my session, except that my therapist got it, at least a bit. And except that I overdisclosed things to him in a manner I wouldn't normally have done.
What he said about this particular topic is that therapists are trained to be exceedingly neutral about things like this, and he would never express regret at missing a session even if he felt it, because it would be putting his needs into the conversation. It might make the client feel bad about missing the session, because they want to please the therapist.
I told him he was an idiot. Not in so many words. But I told him that if a therapist worded something the way you suggested in an earlier post, that they could convey caring without entering into the territory he feared, or without "gratifying" the client excessively.
I think he thought about what I said. But I'm not sure he'll do anything different. Old ways of thinking are hard to change.
By the way, your husband's new boss just sounds a bit off. I wouldn't take anything she said to heart. Just feel sorry for your husband.
Posted by annierose on December 12, 2005, at 19:40:41
In reply to Re: What happened today .... » annierose, posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 18:16:48
Thanks Dinah - your comment about one of my husband's new higher ups made me laugh out loud ... I haven't done that in a few days ... felt good.
Posted by Shortelise on December 12, 2005, at 19:49:52
In reply to What happened today ...., posted by annierose on December 12, 2005, at 16:24:55
Everything Dinah wrote makes good sense (as usual). I never thought that a T would not allow him/herself to express regret at not seeing a client. My T has told me, on one occasion, and one only, that he would miss me if I stop - er, I guess that would be "when" but it was conditional at the time - seeing him.
Annierose, sometimes the cogs just do not engage. Sometimes we are not understood even by those on whom we count to understand. And it stinks, esp. for those of us who are sensitive to it. You could go back to it, if you need to, and back to it again. Talk about it until you understand it. Until it doesn't feel like the betrayal it seems.
As for your husband's boss - what an idiotic thing to say. I am plump and I would have been so offended. I mean, a friend can call me a dumpling, and I might feel loved, but I can't think of a single friend who would, even affectionately. My husband's boss must not presume, or I'll feel insulted. I think she had been into the punch for a while before you got there.
But at least in her insult, she had the two of you, you and your husband, as part of the same delicious dish. It's hard to get either the pheasant or the dumpling out of the pheasant dumpling. :-)ShortE
Posted by daisym on December 12, 2005, at 20:04:15
In reply to What happened today ...., posted by annierose on December 12, 2005, at 16:24:55
"That's a disguise of old pain."
What did she mean by this? I don't think you were disguising your pain, you were trying to talk to her about it. I would have interpreted (armchair therapist time, watch out) as you feeling criticized by your therapist for hurting so much by a missed appointment and the phone call. Maybe that is what she meant??
I hate sessions where we don't click, when I feel like I can't find the right word or phrase to convey exactly what I'm feeling so he will get it. I want to sulk in silence when that is happening.
(((Annie))) It gets better. I know you know. Does it help that *we* get it?
Posted by daisym on December 12, 2005, at 20:08:13
In reply to Re: What happened today .... » annierose, posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 18:16:48
Dinah -- I just love you (and your therapist!).
I'm glad you said what you said because I agree completely! Having my therapist say he was disappointed that I wasn't coming has not made me feel like I needed to please him -- it made me trust that my therapy was important to him too. Don't they know that most of us guard this time as almost sacred space? Sheesh. The things they leave out of their training...
Posted by Dinah on December 12, 2005, at 20:55:55
In reply to Re: What happened today .... » Dinah, posted by daisym on December 12, 2005, at 20:08:13
He does know that. It's another thing we talked about. I used Babble a lot this week, which as usual made for a deeper session.
He said he feels honored and awed at the way (certain) clients feel about seeing him. He said that he too considers the therapeutic space sacred, and is constantly aware of that.
I wish he would get it, because I wasn't just talking about this, I was also talking about the fact that we probably won't be able to arrange anything for two weeks between next Sunday and after New Years and I'd sort of like him to at least express regret about it. Which he didn't pick up on, or maybe he did. He doesn't always let me know when he realizes I'm really talking about him.
Posted by annierose on December 12, 2005, at 22:15:21
In reply to Re: What happened today .... » annierose, posted by Shortelise on December 12, 2005, at 19:49:52
I guess I was feeling misunderstood or minimized, and then I was feeling unconnected because of the former.
As for the "dumpling" comment, I'm not that much over-weight ... would love to lose 10 - 15 pounds. But I'm tall, so I carry it well (or so I thought!).
Thanks for understanding. It helps to be here.
Posted by annierose on December 12, 2005, at 22:24:32
In reply to Re: What happened today ...., posted by daisym on December 12, 2005, at 20:04:15
I'm not sure what she meant, that's why I shared it here. Normally I would ask her, or she sees a puzzled look on my face and would ask, "Do you understand what I'm trying to explain?" Didn't happen.
Here's what I'm thinking that she's thinking (dangerous territory). That instead of talking about the hurt I felt over missing the appointment and the awkward phone call, I bring up a hurtful comment a stranger jabbed at me. But I was talking about the missed appointment, then I moved on because we weren't getting anywhere. And I thought to myself, "Oh, I just got to tell her this story." OH OH OH, she did say after that comment as a follow up, "It's like you are always looking for people to treat you like your siblings did, to tease you." But that woman did say a nasty thing. AARGHHH.
I do feel like freezing her out right now. I got to figure that out.
And I like what you wrote to Dinah, it is sacred time. They need to know that.
Posted by gardenergirl on December 13, 2005, at 9:25:17
In reply to Re: What happened today .... » daisym, posted by annierose on December 12, 2005, at 22:24:32
You are SO NOT a dumpling! What a wench!
I'm sorry she didn't seem to get it. I'm trying to put myself in her place, but I'm not getting what might be going on that she didn't get it. (How's that for a confusing sentence?)
My T would never say he regretted we couldn't meet. He didn't even bring up the thing from last week although you can bet I did. But if I hadn't, I really wonder if he would have. It's all fodder for him. I can regret not meeting, but he would never share his own feelings.
Which is kind of funny, because I can remember telling a client that *I* felt disconnected to her because we hadn't been able to meet for a couple of weeks due to circumstances.
At any rate, I hope that the rest of the week goes better.
gg
Posted by Dinah on December 13, 2005, at 10:09:52
In reply to Re: What happened today .... » Shortelise, posted by annierose on December 12, 2005, at 22:15:21
Annierose, you aren't overweight at all. I have no idea what was in her mind, or if she'd had a bit too much to drink and thought she was saying something terribly witty, or if she's just odd. But whatever she was saying it wasn't that you were overweight.
I don't understand the idea behind not saying that they regret not meeting us either. I don't even work in the people business, but I'm not unlikely to say something moderately warm to someone I'm working with. It's not like she would have been pledging undying love, or an obsession with you. A simple acknowledgement that they enjoy seeing us doesn't seem overly personal. I don't get it.
Posted by 10derHeart on December 13, 2005, at 15:25:58
In reply to Re: What happened today .... » annierose, posted by Dinah on December 13, 2005, at 10:09:52
>>A simple acknowledgement that they enjoy seeing us doesn't seem overly personal. I don't get it.<<
Me, either. Seems far too rigid and without any firm therapeutic basis. I'll try to remember to ask my T. if he recalls his training (if any) in this area, and how he's chosen to apply that over the years. I think I already know, though. I mean, this T. had no qualms during our recent "email issue," in saying, "I really like you," and, "I enjoyed your emails. I looked forward to them. I wondered why when you didn't send one..."
I think he *might* be able to *force* himself to sound a tad disappointed if I ever have to cancel a session. ;-)
(Not that all those sort of remarks are necessarily great things, or without some *risk* in that they raise some issues for me in and of themselves. They do, and we talk about those, well...as far as my fear allows anyway. But it's all about intent. My T. regularly admits to struggling with succumbing to the habit of just a bit too much self-disclosure. But I also know *for sure* he says as much or as little as he does because, in my particular case, he believes in his heart it'll help, not hurt or confuse.)
Posted by 10derHeart on December 13, 2005, at 15:39:17
In reply to What happened today ...., posted by annierose on December 12, 2005, at 16:24:55
Annie,
The woman's comment was quite strange. I think you said you walked away, but did either you or your husband see the look on her face? Or hear a certain tone of voice? I mean, I'm assuming it wasn't said in any "good" way as it hurt you. I'm just trying to think ouside the box for an explanation. Even with my ADD, some social anxiety and general weirdness at events like that (HATE them!) I don't think I've said something like that. But if I did, maybe I'd be trying to compliment the couple, like that they fit perfectly together just like the food item, with dumpling haveing NO reference to weight or size at all, but it comes out all wrong, with a double meaning, and I'm either oblivious or horrified I've insulted someone.
That's why I wonder about tone and attitude while she was saying it. But...
Oh heck, I don't want to defend her. Just identifyig a little with blurting out weird humor others don't get. But as gg said, really, she's a wench. An apology was in order, no matter how or why she came to make the comment. Hope you can write it off as the completely inconsequential and meaningless non-event it was! some people....really!!
Posted by Dinah on December 13, 2005, at 17:40:58
In reply to Re: What happened today .... » Dinah, posted by 10derHeart on December 13, 2005, at 15:25:58
My therapist has, in the past, talked about being careful not to be seductive in any sense of the word. Not to promise things that just weren't possible. And I think that's a legitimate concern.
And I also understand his point that a therapist's needs shouldn't enter into therapy.
But the sort of things we're talking about wouldn't seem to do either of those things in the majority of clients. And I would imagine they'd be able to judge long term clients for whom such statements wouldn't be wise.
It almost seems unkind or inhumane not to make such a fairly conventional expression of regret in the case of long term clients whom they see frequently. It *is* a relationship of sorts.
Posted by annierose on December 13, 2005, at 18:02:14
In reply to Re: What happened today .... » 10derHeart, posted by Dinah on December 13, 2005, at 17:40:58
Not to beat a dead horse ... BUT ...
My T did express to me a few weeks ago when I was struggling (The "Do I Matter?" thread) that she did like me and she did care about me. She made a point to say that when you work this closely with someone (I took that to mean 3x per week over a long period of time) that you just can't turn the feelings on and off. Saying that, she keeps very firm boundaries, discloses little if anything about herself and maybe only twice has shared a "story" (once about herself, once about a "friend"). Although she tries to be that blank slate sort of T, I do feel I know her fairly well. I think by the questions they ask, or don't ask, and their tone, etc. we can learn a ton about our Ts and what they are feeling. But like Fallsfall said earlier, every once in awhile it's good to ask them what they are truly thinking about something.
Anyway, back to yesterday (which seems so long ago, and I can't believe I won't see her until Thursday ... should have added that Tuesday session, if only it wasn't so expensive!) ... she did tell me after my questioning that she was disappointed. But with my background and current legal situation with my family, I took that to mean, "I'm disappointed I won't be able to bill you for that session." Now, that is my TOTAL projection. But it does feel that way. And I will share that new insight with her on Thursday. Another layer of frustration I think I figured out, I felt minimized. She just didn't get how blue I was for missing an appointment.
Thanks to Dinah and GG re: me and dumplings. That was very sweet!! I have let that go; she is just a wench.
Posted by Dinah on December 13, 2005, at 18:29:13
In reply to Re: What happened today .... » Dinah, posted by annierose on December 13, 2005, at 18:02:14
I know she *does* care for you. I know mine does too. :)
I don't think it's beating a dead horse. These things that take on such meaning to us tend to have layers upon layers of old pain.
I agree with you though, that she probably just meant that she was really disappointed. Although you should hear the number of money related very rude comments that pass through my mind in therapy. It's hard to take that element out of the relationship.
This is the end of the thread.
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