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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by LegWarmers on December 11, 2005, at 17:17:52
There are times when I look back and realize that my attitude has only washed my experiences aside and helped me to further bury them.
Ive read some posts today that unfortunately I am not up to respond to. Its got me really thinking.
Forgive and forget, maybe its excessive?
Any thoughts?
Posted by Tamar on December 11, 2005, at 17:40:03
In reply to Forgive and Forget, posted by LegWarmers on December 11, 2005, at 17:17:52
> There are times when I look back and realize that my attitude has only washed my experiences aside and helped me to further bury them.
> Ive read some posts today that unfortunately I am not up to respond to. Its got me really thinking.
> Forgive and forget, maybe its excessive?
> Any thoughts?Hmmm.. I guess that depends on whether it's possible. People often want to forgive before they are really ready to. People often think that forgiving will help them make peace with their experiences.
But my personal opinion is that forgiveness isn't possible until people have made peace with their experiences. And sometimes it isn't deserved or appropriate to forgive.
And sometimes it isn't sensible to forget.
People who have managed to forgive often say that it was a crucial part of their healing. But I think the same thing can be reached without forgiveness in situations where forgiveness doesn't seem appropriate.
What do you think?
Tamar
Posted by LegWarmers on December 11, 2005, at 17:56:36
In reply to Re: Forgive and Forget » LegWarmers, posted by Tamar on December 11, 2005, at 17:40:03
> > There are times when I look back and realize that my attitude has only washed my experiences aside and helped me to further bury them.
> > Ive read some posts today that unfortunately I am not up to respond to. Its got me really thinking.
> > Forgive and forget, maybe its excessive?
> > Any thoughts?
>
> Hmmm.. I guess that depends on whether it's possible. People often want to forgive before they are really ready to. People often think that forgiving will help them make peace with their experiences.
>Yes, I think that's right.
> But my personal opinion is that forgiveness isn't possible until people have made peace with their experiences. And sometimes it isn't deserved or appropriate to forgive.
>How do people make peace without forgiving?
> And sometimes it isn't sensible to forget.
>
> People who have managed to forgive often say that it was a crucial part of their healing. But I think the same thing can be reached without forgiveness in situations where forgiveness doesn't seem appropriate.
>
> What do you think?
>I see what you are saying. Understanding it at an emotional level is hard for me. It's much easier to be matter of fact about things. You made a lot of sense to me though.
-Legs
Posted by Tamar on December 11, 2005, at 18:25:07
In reply to Re: Forgive and Forget » Tamar, posted by LegWarmers on December 11, 2005, at 17:56:36
> How do people make peace without forgiving?
For me it’s sometimes about deciding that the person who hurt me no longer has power to hurt me. I have to acknowledge that they hurt me in the past and that I still feel the pain, but at the same time recognise that there is no new pain from that person.
It’s not quite the same thing as forgiveness; it’s more about letting it go. I don’t wish any harm to people who have hurt me, but I can’t say I wish them much happiness either! I simply feel as if they no longer matter much.
Forgiveness, on the other hand means (to me) a willingness to continue the relationship with that person, or a reconciliation of some kind. I'm not sure it's really possible unless the other person understands the pain they've caused and made some kind of indication that they're sorry. It seems to me that forgiveness is something we can offer to other people as a means of reconciling rather than something we need to do for ourselves.
Of course, sometimes we might have to forgive ourselves...
> I see what you are saying. Understanding it at an emotional level is hard for me. It's much easier to be matter of fact about things. You made a lot of sense to me though.
Hmm… Understanding anything at an emotional level takes quite a lot of practice, I think. I find it *much* easier to understand things at a rational level!
Tamar
Posted by LegWarmers on December 11, 2005, at 20:21:36
In reply to Re: Forgive and Forget » LegWarmers, posted by Tamar on December 11, 2005, at 18:25:07
> > How do people make peace without forgiving?
>
> For me it’s sometimes about deciding that the person who hurt me no longer has power to hurt me. I have to acknowledge that they hurt me in the past and that I still feel the pain, but at the same time recognise that there is no new pain from that person.
>
> It’s not quite the same thing as forgiveness; it’s more about letting it go. I don’t wish any harm to people who have hurt me, but I can’t say I wish them much happiness either! I simply feel as if they no longer matter much.
>ah
> Forgiveness, on the other hand means (to me) a willingness to continue the relationship with that person, or a reconciliation of some kind. I'm not sure it's really possible unless the other person understands the pain they've caused and made some kind of indication that they're sorry. It seems to me that forgiveness is something we can offer to other people as a means of reconciling rather than something we need to do for ourselves.
>Important distinction between the two. I hadn't thought of it that way.
>
> > I see what you are saying. Understanding it at an emotional level is hard for me. It's much easier to be matter of fact about things. You made a lot of sense to me though.
>
> Hmm… Understanding anything at an emotional level takes quite a lot of practice, I think. I find it *much* easier to understand things at a rational level!:) me too
Thank you for your thoughts, they were very helpful- LW
Posted by orchid on December 12, 2005, at 20:45:52
In reply to Re: Forgive and Forget » Tamar, posted by LegWarmers on December 11, 2005, at 20:21:36
In addition to what Tamar said, when people say about forgiving people (who are not deserving of that forgiveness), they sometimes mean, that they just understand the reasons behind their issue and let it go.
Like, if a person hurts me and doesn't show remorse, but is known to be an extremely psychologically tortured person himself, sometimes I find it easier to accept that and let it go without boiling about it myself. I had a colleague once who behaved in the worst possible way with me. At that time I felt extremely bad and hurt and boiled inside about it for nearly a year. But then later I found out that he had profound issues himself and was behaving that way
with many of my other colleagues.So even though this guy didn't show remorse or asked me for forgiveness, I was able to kind of forgive him, and think "That was the best he knew and it didn't have anything to do with me". And I made peace.
The point is, even if they don't ask for forgiveness, it is sometimes possible to forgive, if we understand the rationale behind their actions.
Posted by LegWarmers on December 14, 2005, at 10:53:24
In reply to Re: Forgive and Forget » LegWarmers, posted by orchid on December 12, 2005, at 20:45:52
> In addition to what Tamar said, when people say about forgiving people (who are not deserving of that forgiveness), they sometimes mean, that they just understand the reasons behind their issue and let it go.
>
> Like, if a person hurts me and doesn't show remorse, but is known to be an extremely psychologically tortured person himself, sometimes I find it easier to accept that and let it go without boiling about it myself. I had a colleague once who behaved in the worst possible way with me. At that time I felt extremely bad and hurt and boiled inside about it for nearly a year. But then later I found out that he had profound issues himself and was behaving that way
> with many of my other colleagues.
>
> So even though this guy didn't show remorse or asked me for forgiveness, I was able to kind of forgive him, and think "That was the best he knew and it didn't have anything to do with me". And I made peace.
>
> The point is, even if they don't ask for forgiveness, it is sometimes possible to forgive, if we understand the rationale behind their actions.Thanks Orchid, you have great insight!!
I feel better about this.
This is the end of the thread.
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