![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 6 to 30 of 30. Go back in thread:
Posted by antigua on November 30, 2005, at 12:00:41
In reply to Re: Unconscious Seduction - long » allisonross, posted by daisym on November 30, 2005, at 10:41:54
My strong feelings don't revolve around my T, but as I've already mentioned, they can be very intense for male authority figures that remind me of my father. The trick I've learned is that when they surface, that means something is going on. For example, the feelings were in full force over the Thanksgiving holiday, which was a major trigger for me w/my mother around, but they abated this time after I dealt with the situation. So it's the ebb and flow that I watch, and I'm never wrong. The trick is to go into therapy, bring them up and find how they relate to my father. That's the hard part.
They will get better. I promise you.
best,
antigua
Posted by annierose on November 30, 2005, at 17:14:34
In reply to Unconscious Seduction - long, posted by daisym on November 30, 2005, at 0:50:26
I know how painful those loving feelings can be in therapy (and mind you, I do see a female T). I think the only answer, is to keep the dialogue going. Talk and talk and talk until it feels settled, and that, I think, takes a long long time. You are much further along than I. I do feel I do share so much. Just not enough.
I love your comment "It feels like a secret smile tucked inside my heart." I feel the same way. When I'm just walking to my car I can think of her and feel her mental hug around my shoulders.
I know it sounds weird, but I do feel this is how my daughter feels about me. I always try to experience these types of feelings as a child would feel about their mother.What's interesting is at the same time you wrote you were missing him, you called to cancel a session. A part of you is conflicted, the adult Dasiy?
I have a hard time expressing these longing feelings because intellectually, I know I really don't want her to be my "real" friend. I really don't want to know ALL about her (why ruin my perfectly good illusion?). I just feel like I want to be closer to her. My T recently described these feelings as a "glorious love affair" but yet, it's so painfully hard. A real contradiction of sorts and my brain cannot figure it out.
Sorry Daisy, I'm not much help. I just know how parts of you are feeling right now.
Posted by Tamar on November 30, 2005, at 19:35:59
In reply to Unconscious Seduction - long, posted by daisym on November 30, 2005, at 0:50:26
Your posts are so good for me, Daisy. I feel I’m taking some kind of vicarious help from them.
I reckon sometimes there isn’t any particular reason why these feelings come back in force. Sometimes I read things here that ‘trigger’ feelings for me… but it’s usually in conjunction with other things (or maybe nothing at all). The story about the client in the restroom hearing her therapist on the phone is really scary. I suppose I can imagine a situation in which a therapist says something like that, not really meaning it. Any therapist who really means it probably shouldn’t be practising as a therapist.
As for feelings of love and lust for therapists: they *are* real and they’re not disrespectful or dangerous. They’re natural and healthy and important. Just my two cents.
I think I can understand why you might be worried about unconscious seduction. After all, it’s something that’s inevitably outside your control. But I think the term sounds scarier than it really is. If you were being unconsciously seductive you might feel that your behaviour in session wasn’t really ‘you’. But I really think your therapist would pick up on it and help you deal with it. I certainly don’t believe it would scare him off.
As for what it says about you: it might say any number of things. You might have a desire to rewrite history. You might want to find a way to experience a depth of pleasure that has been elusive up till now. You might simply want to feel beautiful. Or a number of other possibilities, none of which are shameful or bad.
I think it’s a good thing that your therapist is aware of how you might feel, and won’t fall into any traps. And I think it’s wonderful that you’re able to talk to him about all this stuff. I want to get my p*m-p*ms out for you…
Tamar
Posted by daisym on December 1, 2005, at 0:26:19
In reply to Re: Unconscious Seduction - long » daisym, posted by antigua on November 30, 2005, at 12:00:41
I'm holding you to your promise, Antigua. And you know my therapist, I can't get by with much. If I don't bring it up, he will. So we'll keep talking about this, over and over.
We talked about unconscious seduction in terms of the s/a today. It is hard not to believe that somehow I had the power to provoke my dad, to have enticed him somehow. It was a hard conversation to have and there is a lot of work to do here. I dissociated today in a way I haven't for nearly a year. It didn't help that before therapy I had a pdoc appointment that was triggering. He asked me if I was worried about my HIV status -- and I automatically said "no, my husband is the only sexual partner I've ever had." There was dead silence as we both realized this wasn't true. It was one of those really hard moments. Not that I'm at all worried about HIV -- I've been tested since I work in human services -- it just highlights how much I still don't accept what happened to me.
Posted by daisym on December 1, 2005, at 0:46:22
In reply to Re: Unconscious Seduction - long » daisym, posted by annierose on November 30, 2005, at 17:14:34
****I know how painful those loving feelings can be in therapy (and mind you, I do see a female T). I think the only answer, is to keep the dialogue going. Talk and talk and talk until it feels settled, and that, I think, takes a long long time. You are much further along than I. I do feel I do share so much. Just not enough.
I agree with the talking part. I have wondered if I would feel the same way with a female therapist. I'm guessing the attachment and fear would be the same. You are moving at the pace you need to. Don't beat yourself up over it. The words will come eventually.
****I love your comment "It feels like a secret smile tucked inside my heart." I feel the same way. When I'm just walking to my car I can think of her and feel her mental hug around my shoulders.
I know it sounds weird, but I do feel this is how my daughter feels about me. I always try to experience these types of feelings as a child would feel about their mother.I don't think this is weird. The reason we gave my youngest a cell phone is because he needed a way to check in and make sure I was available if he needed me. We all need someone who makes us feel secure. I'm glad you have that with your therapist and I'm glad your daughter has it with you.
***What's interesting is at the same time you wrote you were missing him, you called to cancel a session. A part of you is conflicted, the adult Dasiy?
Yup - my therapist calls it a "titanic struggle." I think I can teach myself not to need him so much. I somehow decided this weekend that if I didn't see him so much I wouldn't miss him so much. Sort of like getting used to separation again. He reminded me that this has never worked for me, that I do better when I allow the contact and connection. Sort of like if I know I can call, I don't. And since there are conflicting feelings between age states, it gets really hard. Like, I think it is OK to call when I'm anxious and feeling sad. But I don't think it is OK to call when I'm "just" missing him. He wanted to know why not? I have no idea.***I have a hard time expressing these longing feelings because intellectually, I know I really don't want her to be my "real" friend. I really don't want to know ALL about her (why ruin my perfectly good illusion?). I just feel like I want to be closer to her. My T recently described these feelings as a "glorious love affair" but yet, it's so painfully hard. A real contradiction of sorts and my brain cannot figure it out.
Sometimes I think if I knew more about him I'd be able to overlay reality on these feelings better. He said he doubted it, I know enough about him already. And I run into his wife often enough, since she has the office next door. He actually talked about how hard that must be for me to "have it in your face" -- but I tried to explain that I'm not jealous of her, I'm jealous of them - what I imagine they have together. I want that in my life.
****Sorry Daisy, I'm not much help. I just know how parts of you are feeling right now.
You are lots of help. It helps to talk it through. It helps to know you are listening. And it really helps that you know that it feels good and bad at the same time.
Posted by daisym on December 1, 2005, at 1:04:19
In reply to Re: Unconscious Seduction - long » daisym, posted by Tamar on November 30, 2005, at 19:35:59
****Your posts are so good for me, Daisy. I feel I’m taking some kind of vicarious help from them.
I'm glad. Really glad. I often feel like I write too much and in too much detail.
****I reckon sometimes there isn’t any particular reason why these feelings come back in force. Sometimes I read things here that ‘trigger’ feelings for me… but it’s usually in conjunction with other things (or maybe nothing at all). The story about the client in the restroom hearing her therapist on the phone is really scary. I suppose I can imagine a situation in which a therapist says something like that, not really meaning it. Any therapist who really means it probably shouldn’t be practising as a therapist.
I think sometimes I need to really check out the connection because something else is coming up. And other times it is what I'm missing in my life. Who knows? It is that spiral again.
****As for feelings of love and lust for therapists: they *are* real and they’re not disrespectful or dangerous. They’re natural and healthy and important. Just my two cents
I agree intellectually. So why does it frighten me?
****I think I can understand why you might be worried about unconscious seduction. After all, it’s something that’s inevitably outside your control. But I think the term sounds scarier than it really is. If you were being unconsciously seductive you might feel that your behaviour in session wasn’t really ‘you’. But I really think your therapist would pick up on it and help you deal with it. I certainly don’t believe it would scare him off.
We did talk about this today more. And that is kind of what he said -- it would be a change in me that we would talk about. And he said it was doubtful it would get away from me because I'm so hypervigilent about this kind of thing. He said sometimes the intensity of all this is scary -- for both of us. He knows how delicate it is and how important. He doesn't want to inadvertantly hurt me and we are on a very narrow bridge. But he said we are crossing it together, which is what is important.
***As for what it says about you: it might say any number of things. You might have a desire to rewrite history. You might want to find a way to experience a depth of pleasure that has been elusive up till now. You might simply want to feel beautiful. Or a number of other possibilities, none of which are shameful or bad.
Thanks for that. I sometimes wonder if I'm deluding myself about what I secretly, even from myself, am hoping for. But I think I'm simply amazed that I feel this way about anyone, entirely vulnerable, open and yet such a sense of security most of the time.
****I think it’s a good thing that your therapist is aware of how you might feel, and won’t fall into any traps. And I think it’s wonderful that you’re able to talk to him about all this stuff. I want to get my p*m-p*ms out for you…
Now that sounds seductive! :)
Have I said he makes it easy to talk about this? I did say on Monday that I wanted to talk about this but I might need a push or two. I find that giving him this input up front makes it easier to accept the pushing. Does that make sense?Thanks for the cheerleading. It helps more than you know.
Posted by Shortelise on December 1, 2005, at 2:13:40
In reply to Unconscious Seduction - long, posted by daisym on November 30, 2005, at 0:50:26
I can't answer any of your questions but I do want to again say that I love your T. And I admire you.
((daisy))
Posted by caraher on December 1, 2005, at 9:12:32
In reply to Re: Unconscious Seduction - long, posted by daisym on December 1, 2005, at 1:04:19
> ****As for feelings of love and lust for therapists: they *are* real and they’re not disrespectful or dangerous. They’re natural and healthy and important. Just my two cents
>
> I agree intellectually. So why does it frighten me?Because they make you feel like you have less control than you'd like? It's also natural to be frightened by one's own feelings at times...
Posted by antigua on December 1, 2005, at 9:15:39
In reply to Re: Unconscious Seduction -trigger » antigua, posted by daisym on December 1, 2005, at 0:26:19
Wow, that was hard with the pdoc. I would never have thought to have answered any differently than you did. I don't ever considered my father "a sexual partner" but maybe I should. That's way too hard for me to accept. but you are right and it is true. As a matter of fact, and I think of this often (sorry to trigger) but I do often think of how he ruined me for any type of normal sexual life, and I hate him for that. Braking the innocence of sexuality is probably the worst thing he did to me.. Somehow I've let it color everything and at the heart of it, it makes me a freak,or at least that's how I feel about it.
But there's an internal and external reality. I can come to the boards and discuss this like an adult (or a child) but if I try to talk about it outside therapy, the reaction is stupefying, and it reinforces my feelings as a freak. That's not to say I talk about it a lot, and I am very careful about it, but even with my husband I feel a judgment that I am a poisoned person because of it.
Sorry if that hurts. It just kind of popped out. My transference is very hard right now too because I can't/won't tell the man in question, because if Ts have trouble w/it, well, you can imagine.
That's part of my problem. I feel that my perceptions are so distorted, as if there is a manual I never got because of what happened to me.
good luck with your T today. Just keep on talking. I had a long sexual talk with mine yesterday, but it didn't really hit home.
best,
antigua
Posted by Dinah on December 2, 2005, at 10:01:17
In reply to Unconscious Seduction - long, posted by daisym on November 30, 2005, at 0:50:26
I think my situation makes a great object lesson and rightly frightens anyone who's in therapy for the long haul. It was part of our discussion again yesterday. How I really didn't think that he hurt me so much as I think being attached to him hurt me. And I didn't want to be hurt again, I wanted to spread my eggs into more baskets. He refused to say that I didn't need to protect myself from him. He said it was up to me. :(
But I think there is some flirtation on my part. I have a hard time discussing it, because I know so many here have had fathers who abused their trust, but I think it's normal for little girls to have a flirtatious in an innocent little girl way attitude towards their Daddies. And *good* Daddies understand that flirtation for what it is and respond in kind, by allowing themselves to be amused or charmed. I think I *sometimes* flirt with my therapist in that innocent little girl way, and he *sometimes* gives me the gift of being amused (not charmed ever, but amused).
I have no interest in any other sort of seduction, but that sort of flirtation is a seduction of sorts. Not a seduction sexually, but a seduction of raising interest and intensity and positive feelings in a relationship.
I hope my answer isn't inappropriate, and doesn't cause any pain to those whose father responded inappropriately to completely appropriate flirting on the parts of their daughters.
Posted by daisym on December 2, 2005, at 11:55:43
In reply to Re: Unconscious Seduction - long » daisym, posted by Shortelise on December 1, 2005, at 2:13:40
Thanks ShortE.
It strikes me that you have this close and long term relationship with your therapist and yet it seems like sex doesn't come up between you two. Just an observation. I hope this isn't too personal a question, but is that because he doesn't want to talk about it or is it just not an issue? I thought I read that you went through a phase of being attracted to him, but maybe I didn't? If you did, how did you resolve it?
Thanks for the ongoing support.
Posted by daisym on December 2, 2005, at 12:02:54
In reply to Re: Unconscious Seduction - long, posted by caraher on December 1, 2005, at 9:12:32
Ah yes, that control thing again. I wish I could relax and just let stuff happen. Not who I am.
My therapist keeps telling me that I'm frightened because I've entered unknown territory. That to have these feelings is so new and novel that I don't know how to map out a plan for dealing with them. He thinks I don't need a plan -- but that is incomprehensible to me.
Does one strive to learn not to be frightened of their feelings, or to tolerate the terror?
Posted by daisym on December 2, 2005, at 12:48:46
In reply to Re: Unconscious Seduction -trigger » daisym, posted by antigua on December 1, 2005, at 9:15:39
****Wow, that was hard with the pdoc. I would never have thought to have answered any differently than you did. I don't ever considered my father "a sexual partner" but maybe I should. That's way too hard for me to accept. but you are right and it is true. As a matter of fact, and I think of this often (sorry to trigger) but I do often think of how he ruined me for any type of normal sexual life, and I hate him for that. Braking the innocence of sexuality is probably the worst thing he did to me.. Somehow I've let it color everything and at the heart of it, it makes me a freak,or at least that's how I feel about it.
I agree, I don't think of it that way either -- as a partner, but on a medical level, it is something to be checked out. And I totally agree about the innocence being stolen. One of the things that has been happening for me is an awareness of the reality of what it was like to grow up in my house. For me and for my siblings. Intellectually I knew but emotionally I'm remembering the oppressive fear about doing or saying the wrong thing and the conspiracy of silence that was happening. I asked my therapist two things this week -- 1) did he think that one child usually received the brunt of the abuse? and 2) was being sexually abused worse than being physically abused? He said that often one child in a family did become the lightening rod but in my family it happened to me and to my sister (though she was "just" molested -touched, according to her)and my younger brother "got the sh*t beat out of him." It was hard to hear my therapist list all of this, it made it seem real and ongoing, not disjointed events and isolated incidents of loss of control. I don't know if that makes sense. It is another one of those "how could you not have known it was like this?" questions. But we were so normal -- good schools, good manners, educated parents (heck, my dad has a PhD!) -- even velvet chairs in the living room. *sigh* -- And none of us, except my sister, has ever attempted to talk about it into recently when I tried with my older brother. He said "let it die. It will just hurt mom." And that was the end of that. Why didn't any of us tell? Why didn't we talk to each other about it? I'm struggling with these questions.
After that session I dissociated for several hours. I hurt hugely and didn't function. When I questioned why putting these pieces together resulted in a hurt like this, when they were all things we'd already worked on, my therapist said he thought that I was remembering at a deeper level and that this was some serious mourning that needed to happen.
As far as whether sexually abused or physically abused is worse -- I'm sure it is in the eyes of the victim. But for me, having my entire sex life screwed up seems pretty huge. It was so confusing because it was so twisted up in loving someone so much who was hurting you and keeping them safe instead of yourself. And it was so intimate that it effected the internal me - the self who could have been. Not that I'm minimizing the pain of physical abuse. And one of the hardest moments of that session...really, really hard...was when my therapist sadly and quietly said, "but you were abused both ways - as well as emotionally abused. So what you are really saying is that the sexual abuse was the worst part for you." I sat in total silence.
****But there's an internal and external reality. I can come to the boards and discuss this like an adult (or a child) but if I try to talk about it outside therapy, the reaction is stupefying, and it reinforces my feelings as a freak. That's not to say I talk about it a lot, and I am very careful about it, but even with my husband I feel a judgment that I am a poisoned person because of it.
My husband doesn't know. 25 years ago I told him a tiny bit -- very tiny and we've never discussed it since. It has come up in a horrible way one other time but that is it. So opening all this up now and struggling with sex and other things is super hard. Every once in awhile my therapist will fly the "tell your husband" balloon but I shoot it down immediately. It might be different if my dad was dead. And you are NOT a freak -- but yeah, I know what you mean about talking to other people. I've thought about joining a support group but I'm not ready for that. Babble is my support group for now.
****Sorry if that hurts. It just kind of popped out. My transference is very hard right now too because I can't/won't tell the man in question, because if Ts have trouble w/it, well, you can imagine.
Absolutely. And no, you are honest, not hurtful. It helps me to know other people struggle with the telling part too. I read about all these women who stand up and advocate and declare their survival status. I just can't. It still feels shameful, my shame, not his.
****That's part of my problem. I feel that my perceptions are so distorted, as if there is a manual I never got because of what happened to me.
Exactly! Tamar and I have talked about this. How do you know what is normal? How do you learn how to take turns, or what you like...or what is true. I've reached a point where I can actually ask some of these questions in therapy. (TMI alert) Like oral sex -- I wanted to know why guys like it so much. Or if there was a right thing or wrong thing about it. And my therapist actually answered me, telling me of course that there is no such thing as normal, but he said he is aware that I've never had a safe place to ask the middle school questions about the mechanics. Or to learn how to negotiate this stuff. It is strange sometimes but it has helped me to not think about myself as someone who has no rights around sex. It is a little like melting a glacier but I'm inching along.
****good luck with your T today. Just keep on talking. I had a long sexual talk with mine yesterday, but it didn't really hit home.
It takes lots of discussions I think. But it is good that you can talk to her about everything. I sometimes wonder if it would be easier with a woman but I keep coming back to that it is the person's openness to it, not their gender.
Sorry this got so long. I'm in one of those "need to talk" places today.
Posted by annierose on December 2, 2005, at 13:19:10
In reply to Re:trigger -- really long » antigua, posted by daisym on December 2, 2005, at 12:48:46
Hi Daisy -
I'm feeling for you right now. I know that needing to talk to try to make some sort of sense of things.
I brought in some of this tread into my session today (something you wrote), hope that is okay. She did remark that "sounds like you have a lot of the same feelings" and then she quoted parts of the post that resonated with her about me.Although we experienced different types of abuse, neglect ... label it "hurt" ... our family dynamics seem similar too. The family operates as if it is a functioning, caring, loving family. But we were different Dasiy. My therapist refers to me as the "truth seeker". And I upset the balance. I make them uncomfortable. As a child, I of course didn't understand why I didn't have a loving mother, one that actually wanted to spend any sort of time with her children. I assumed it was me.
My T remarked yesterday how far I have come since the beginning of the summer. And the first thought that popped into my head was "babble". The support and insight I gain here, gives me the courage to bring up and talk about these delicate issues.
A smile moment in therapy today ... I said something very difficult and hard, and there was this gapping silence afterwards. I finally said, "This is the part where you are supposed to say some reassuring things to me."
Posted by Shortelise on December 2, 2005, at 13:47:57
In reply to Re: Unconscious Seduction - long » Shortelise, posted by daisym on December 2, 2005, at 11:55:43
Y'know Daisy, I haven't felt a sexual attraction to him. Well, once I guess I did and it really pissed me off, though I'm not sure if I felt sexually attracted to him or if I just saw him as being attractive. The clothes he was wearing were completely different than what he normally wears - he's not a clothes horse, just casual and comfortable. One day he was wearing clothes that really suited him, that fit him properly and showed him to his best advantage. I found him attractive, had a big fight with him, and I think I left. No, we never talked about it. It was during a time when I was in the worst throes of transference and very deep in old feelings, but I think if he were to wear clothing like that again, I would again recognize that he can be attractive.
We don't talk about sex and sexuality because of me, not him. It's not something I want to talk about. It would be another can of worms, one I think I can live my life without opening.
Does sex have to be a part of things? Granted we are all sexual, but isn't it possible that you can go through your therapy without feeling a need to seduce your T? I am a plump, 50 year old woman. I have done my fair share of seducing, and have been delightfully seduced. I was "promiscuous", yep. I understand why through discussion in therapy that were not blatant.
Of course, there is the possibility that I have been dying to have sex with my therapist and I am blissfully unaware. I made the decision early on not to try to mess with my body language, and told my T, so it isn't something I am trying to dissimulate.
Daisy, for years, as a younger and attractive woman, I used my sexuality as a tool, along with charm, intelligence, and insight. It was part of how I got through the day. I think that can be said of many of us, male and female. But now, I use other things, and I don't feel as "in" my sexuality as I used to, it's not what's most important about me, and I don't need it as much. And I sure don't feel like I need to use it in therapy.
In short, as you suggested, it just isn't an issue in therapy, or between my therapist and me. If my therapist were sexually attracted to me ... I would be stunned, amazed ... it just isn't within the realm of possibilities. That I am not attracted to him, or at least unaware if I am (smile) seems natural.
Being sexually attracted to one's T is not inevitable.
Posted by daisym on December 2, 2005, at 13:51:48
In reply to Re: Unconscious Seduction - TRIGGER » daisym, posted by Dinah on December 2, 2005, at 10:01:17
****I think my situation makes a great object lesson and rightly frightens anyone who's in therapy for the long haul. It was part of our discussion again yesterday. How I really didn't think that he hurt me so much as I think being attached to him hurt me. And I didn't want to be hurt again, I wanted to spread my eggs into more baskets. He refused to say that I didn't need to protect myself from him. He said it was up to me. :(
I think what you are feeling is understandable -- this need to protect yourself. And I think it is a healthy urge, not a disrespectful one to your therapist. It probably makes him sad because he can't promise the security and safety externally that he feels he provides for you internally. He knows that he will be the best therapist he can for you, that doesn't mean you won't get hurt. But I think it might be worth the risk.
****But I think there is some flirtation on my part. I have a hard time discussing it, because I know so many here have had fathers who abused their trust, but I think it's normal for little girls to have a flirtatious in an innocent little girl way attitude towards their Daddies. And *good* Daddies understand that flirtation for what it is and respond in kind, by allowing themselves to be amused or charmed. I think I *sometimes* flirt with my therapist in that innocent little girl way, and he *sometimes* gives me the gift of being amused (not charmed ever, but amused).It isn't hurtful to hear that. I think I know this, intellectually at least. And I've asked it often enough in therapy -- "most dads don't do this, right?" I'm glad he is giving you a nice response. There are many levels we interact on, adult and childlike. It is good that you can be yourself with your therapist.
****I have no interest in any other sort of seduction, but that sort of flirtation is a seduction of sorts. Not a seduction sexually, but a seduction of raising interest and intensity and positive feelings in a relationship.
I think we all do this to some extent. I make my therapist laugh, share stories of my kids or work or whatever. I've brought him jokes or cartoons. I think you are right, it is about solidifying the relationship, giving back in a way. It isn't sexual. And I think we do want to feel liked by our therapists, not just cared about.
****I hope my answer isn't inappropriate, and doesn't cause any pain to those whose father responded inappropriately to completely appropriate flirting on the parts of their daughters.
****It really is OK. I was hoping the same thing by saying that your situation has made me worry. I hope you know that I feel very badly about what has happened for you and I'm in no way attempting to say you shouldn't share what is going on. Remember, everything makes me worry these days.
Posted by daisym on December 2, 2005, at 14:03:10
In reply to Re: Unconscious Seduction » daisym, posted by Shortelise on December 2, 2005, at 13:47:57
That is not really what I meant in total. I can see lots of situations where one would never become sexually attracted to their therapist.
I sort of meant also that the subject wasn't front and center. But I can see from your answer why it wasn't -- you didn't need it to be. I have lamanted that we spend too much time on sex in my therapy but it IS an ongoing trigger and issue for me. I wish I had a problem with toes or some other less charged issue.
Thanks for the thoughtful answer.
Posted by annierose on December 4, 2005, at 16:04:12
In reply to Re: Unconscious Seduction » Shortelise, posted by daisym on December 2, 2005, at 14:03:10
I was re-reading this tread looking for something, and when I re-read what I wrote, and I had to read it twice because one sentence could be taken offensively.
When I wrote, "You and I are different Daisy ..." I meant collectively, we both see our families operating on this superficial "outside world" level and totally differently inside the privacy of our homes.
I hope that I didn't offend you. It was not my intention.
Annie
Posted by daisym on December 4, 2005, at 20:05:08
In reply to Re:Dasiy, I want to clear up something I wrote ..., posted by annierose on December 4, 2005, at 16:04:12
Annie -- I was not/am not offended. Somehow I missed your post or else read it in the fog of Friday, not my best day. I think we are similiar in lots of way, especially in our need to figure out the truth of our families.
What did your therapist say about the board? I'm finding the more I've shared about Babble, the more he brings it into discussion. Like, "are you getting a hard time on the board for that?" or some other such thing.
I had one of those smile moments during our phone call on Friday. I was having such a black day and I sort of wailed at him that I just didn't want to do this anymore -- it was too painful.
I said, "in your experience, how much more time is this going to take? I've been at it 21/2 years and it still hurts so much. If it is 10 more years I don't want to keep going. Please don't just tell me that everyone is different."Him: "I just don't know -- I wish I did."
Me: "Lie to me!"
Him: "2.7 years. Feel better?"
Me: "OK, I'm holding you to that. I'm considering this a verbal contract."
Him: "Well then at least you know I'm not going anywhere for that amount of time."
What could I do? I had to laugh. Then I told him to stop being reasonable and rational.
Posted by annierose on December 4, 2005, at 22:10:50
In reply to Re:Dasiy, I want to clear up something I wrote ..., posted by daisym on December 4, 2005, at 20:05:08
Phew - glad we are on the same page, so to speak.
My T hasn't brought up this board without my prompting a conversation yet. She doesn't seem to mind. At first she asked more questions about why I sought out this support. When I replied, "Insight, and to know that others go through this stuff (big word ey?)", she replied, "I thought that was your motivation."
I get scared when I talk about the "end" of therapy. I bring it up once in awhile. Last week I asked her "How can I be this attached and just walk away one day?". She told me that we would plan it out, that it would be a long and slow process, and it wouldn't hurt as intensely as I feel now." I started crying, the ugly type. She said, "It will be a sad day, but you will be okay." I guess I'm not there yet.
Posted by daisym on December 4, 2005, at 23:28:21
In reply to Re:Dasiy, I want to clear up something I wrote ..., posted by daisym on December 4, 2005, at 20:05:08
It must be in the air -- end of the year and all that. I think I said exactly the same thing as we were discussing all my feelings for him. He told me once that it is usually much harder on the therapist because they don't get to know the "end" of the story -- and they care about what happens to us. But he also tells me that we aren't there yet so maybe this fear can be put on ice for a little while? It is hard for me because I want to pull back and prevent the inevitable hurt.
I don't think I ever asked, how old is your therapist Annie? Do you worry about retirement? When I asked that question, he made a face and said "I'm not THAT old!" :)
Posted by annierose on December 5, 2005, at 6:18:21
In reply to Re:Dasiy, I want to clear up something I wrote ... » daisym, posted by daisym on December 4, 2005, at 23:28:21
My T is not much older than me. I'm 44 and I would guess she is 49 - 51. I did ask the same question too and she said, "I don't plan on going anywhere." Her oldest is probably a junior/senior in High School, and the second probably in 8th or 9th grade. So hopefully she needs to help save for college for awhile.
>>It is hard for me because I want to pull back and prevent the inevitable hurt.<<<
Exactly what I said.
I have an appointment this morning and I find I'm looking forward to the hard work ... that is, I hoping we can get to the "good stuff", but it's usually hard on Monday.
Posted by 10derHeart on December 5, 2005, at 15:27:39
In reply to Re:Dasiy, I want to clear up something I wrote ... » daisym, posted by annierose on December 4, 2005, at 22:10:50
{clears throat uncomfortably} gosh, I hate intruding on certain threads where two people are talking so almost-privately...but I just wanted to say....
>>I get scared when I talk about the "end" of therapy. I bring it up once in awhile. Last week I asked her "How can I be this attached and just walk away one day?". She told me that we would plan it out, that it would be a long and slow process, and it wouldn't hurt as intensely as I feel now." I started crying, the ugly type. She said, "It will be a sad day, but you will be okay." I guess I'm not there yet.<<
OMgoodness! I could have actually written this paragraph. Even almost to the words my T. has said. wow. I guess I'm not even to the point I can stand to talk about it much at all, or envision it yet. (Causes ugly type crying for me, too.)
Posted by annierose on December 5, 2005, at 22:20:32
In reply to Re:Dasiy, I want to clear up something I wrote ... » annierose, posted by 10derHeart on December 5, 2005, at 15:27:39
Thanks for joining our discussion.
It is scary. But on some level it is comforting to know that when I am ready to walk away that it won't hurt as much as I think it will. And, she will only be a phone call away if something were to come up in my life. I won't dwell on it now, because I do get emotional.
So have you ever brought up the topic in therapy?
Posted by daisym on December 6, 2005, at 0:39:26
In reply to Re:Dasiy, I want to clear up something I wrote ... » annierose, posted by 10derHeart on December 5, 2005, at 15:27:39
Tender,
No intrusion -- always jump in.
Do you think you are worrying about termination because it feels like an inevitable loss? You lost your mother so young, so it would make sense that any strong attachment might always be doomed (in your mind) to end painfully.
I'm just suggesting it because my therapist commented that I'm always looking ahead to the loss and assuming it has to happen and has to happen painfully. I don't know how to change this, at least not yet. I think I'd rather stick my head in the sand.
This is the end of the thread.
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