![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 6 to 30 of 30. Go back in thread:
Posted by LittleGirlLost on November 22, 2005, at 22:59:34
In reply to I don't want to feel this way..., posted by LittleGirlLost on November 22, 2005, at 14:16:32
So I bit the bullet and called. I was ambivalent, but realized I am only making things worse for myself and it would be a long two weeks. Even if I decided to quit, I figured to call and be done with it rather than agonizing over it.
I got her voicemail and decided not to leave a message. I was ambivalent about calling anyway and didn't know what to say, whether she answered or not. I guess my calling and not leaving a message was a slightly louder "silent cry for help".
And she called back. Took me by surprise, and didn't really know what to say. I told her that I was frustrated with everything and didn't know if I wanted to do it anymore. I said that I should probably say it in person, but the days since our last session have been so hard that I would rather just be done with it all. She asked if it had anything to do with this Thursday and understood why I would feel angry and frustrated. So I admitted, maybe a little. I didn't want to tell her too much incase I am trying to swim away, I didn't want her reeling me back in. (These T's can be like fishing poles!) I asked her if she noticed that I didn't call this weekend. She said she did and wondered why I hadn't. I told her that things were bad and I couldn't.... then I couldn't get the other words out... so she asked if I had wished that she would have called me. (Yes! She does know me!) I said yes that esentially I was angry that she couldn't read my mind, and that it isn't fair for me to feel that way. She told me that all of my feelings and wishes were okay and that I needn't be so afraid to share them with her, though she can understand why I am.
The conversation was much longer than any others, and so much of it I don't remember. But I could feel her warmth through the phone which seems to have melted some of this hard shell I had around me. So it was a good conversation, her tone was very gentle tonight, which was good because sometimes she sounds a little different on the phone. She said I can call her again before next Thursday if I wanted to, and even more than once if I wanted to. She understands how it feels so far away for me, for which I am glad.
I don't remember much else, but it's inside somewhere, right?
I'm a different kind of sad now. I feel like crying because I want to see her now; right now! I remember her now and I miss her. I want to sit on her lap and cry. I want to be there. I miss her. (Ugh, and this is why I don't post so often, because it stirs up all these feelings.)
Is it next Thursday yet?
lgl :(
~~~
And then the perfectionist in me worries that I have started giving up already. I haven't written anything for the past 2 weeks. And I'm not writing anything during this 2 week span either. It's too overwhelming to me right now. On the other hand, it's the only way I can remember these little (or big) details. I have too much to do that I can't worry about writing now. Maybe I need to believe that that's okay.
Posted by annierose on November 23, 2005, at 7:06:00
In reply to I called, posted by LittleGirlLost on November 22, 2005, at 22:59:34
I am so glad you had the courage to call. And your T had called ID to know it was you! and called you back.
She does care. She does want to help. I'm glad you told her your wishes. I know my T would never call me unless I specifically called and left a message to call me back. They want you to take charge of your treatment.
Your T sounds very warm and gentle. Try to think of her calming voice when you get sad or miss her.
Posted by muffled on November 23, 2005, at 13:21:23
In reply to I called, posted by LittleGirlLost on November 22, 2005, at 22:59:34
Good for you. Sounds like you got a real nice T.
Sorta sounds like maybe you dissociate a bit. I do that and it annoys the crap outtta me.
Its hard to miss your T. They like a safe haven in a way.
Hey therapy comes and goes and changes and stuff. Sometimes I journal pages of stuff in a day, other times, days go by and I write nothing.
Sometimes I go to appt. and there is literally nothing going on in my head, nothing. Just an empty space btwn my ears.
Therapy isn't about being perfect. Even your T is not perfect, she'll screw up, and its ok cuz she's human and thats a good thing.
So, glad to see you posting!
Muffled
Posted by LittleGirlLost on November 24, 2005, at 10:10:45
In reply to Re: I called » LittleGirlLost, posted by annierose on November 23, 2005, at 7:06:00
Thanks Annierose. Yes, I am very glad for caller ID, and am both surprised and glad that she did call me back without me leaving a message. I have a feeling she knew that I didn't call for a reason, and that it was hard for me to call and that is why I didn't leave a message. (I'm just glad it worked out!)
>>> Your T sounds very warm and gentle. Try to think of her calming voice when you get sad or miss her.
This is where I have a hard time. It would make sense to think of her when I get sad or miss her, but that always seems to make me more sad, and miss her more. So it's almost like I try to forget her, in a way. But maybe if I could hold on to her, and think of her, it would help, right? I mean, it should... it would make sense.
But she really got through to me on the phone and I have been so sad. In fact, yesterday I was so weepy at work. What a sight that was! And it's so unlike me since I probably haven't cried in years. So I emailed her and told her a little of how I was feeling, and she totally understood and validated it all. I also said that I just wanted to lay under her desk and cry. She said that if it would help to imagine that, then why not! lol! I wonder if she knows that I really want to do that!
When I feel little, I hate sitting all proper in those adult chairs... and that's all she has in her office.
lgl
Posted by LittleGirlLost on November 24, 2005, at 10:20:23
In reply to Re: I called, posted by muffled on November 23, 2005, at 13:21:23
Thanks Muffled. Yeah I do tend to dissociate which is probably I don't remember all of the conversation. It can be annoying, but sometimes I just have to think that some part inside heard it and maybe that's all that matters.
What? My T is human?! I have yet to see that. <grin>
lgl
Posted by daisym on November 24, 2005, at 16:54:58
In reply to Re: I called » annierose, posted by LittleGirlLost on November 24, 2005, at 10:10:45
I'm glad you feel reconnected. Maybe you could carry a reminder of your therapist with you in between sessions? I loved when my therapist recorded a voice mail for me to listen to when he was gone. It made me feel connected and I could listen to it as much as I wanted to without anyone else knowing. Maybe try that?
Sometimes I don't know which is worse...the sad, missing you feelings or the anxious, where are you feelings? *sigh*
Hang in there. I'm glad you called her. That was very brave and a great step towards taking care of yourself.
Posted by LittleGirlLost on November 29, 2005, at 14:58:41
In reply to Re: I called » LittleGirlLost, posted by daisym on November 24, 2005, at 16:54:58
Thanks Daisy :)
The voicemail... Yes, I do that too. I save her messages. Even though they don't say anything special, they are still her, and I can listen to them whenever I want to.
I also have her business card in my wallet.
I also have a little glass/stone (not sure of the material) elephant that she gave me off her shelf way back when I first started telling her about these feelings. I never thought she would actually give me something though! I hold that little elephant sometimes, and sometimes I talk to it, but I think it has lost a little of it's magical power since it has now been in my house so long. I know that sounds silly, but it really was more powerful when she first gave it to me. I still like it though. :)
~lgl
Posted by littleone on December 1, 2005, at 14:25:35
In reply to Re: I called » daisym, posted by LittleGirlLost on November 29, 2005, at 14:58:41
> I hold that little elephant sometimes, and sometimes I talk to it, but I think it has lost a little of it's magical power since it has now been in my house so long. I know that sounds silly, but it really was more powerful when she first gave it to me. I still like it though. :)
It doesn't sound silly at all. My T gave me a hanky a little while back and it used to work really well. I could carry it around or touch it and I really felt a lot closer to him. I go hiking a lot and I take it with me so I'm not alone, he's always with me.
Except it has lost my T's you-ness. Like I've sucked it dry and there's none of him left in it. I want to take it in to him and get him to carry it around for a few days or rub it a bit or something to get some of him put back into it.
Posted by daisym on December 1, 2005, at 18:10:46
In reply to Re: Tokens holding their T-ness » LittleGirlLost, posted by littleone on December 1, 2005, at 14:25:35
I have two suggestions. They might take a little courage.
For the elephant, take him in and ask your therapist to help you name him. It will be a connecting experience and an opportunity to talk about internalizing the security she gives you.
And for the hanky, take it back in and ask him to put his initials on the corner (take a sharpie or something.) This will personalize it again for you and you'll never forget where it came from. (not that you would)
Posted by LittleGirlLost on December 2, 2005, at 9:57:46
In reply to Re: Tokens holding their T-ness » LittleGirlLost, posted by littleone on December 1, 2005, at 14:25:35
> It doesn't sound silly at all. My T gave me a hanky a little while back and it used to work really well. I could carry it around or touch it and I really felt a lot closer to him. I go hiking a lot and I take it with me so I'm not alone, he's always with me.
That's terrific; and I imagine that since it's a hanky, maybe it has a little of his smell? Hope that doesn't sound weird.
> Except it has lost my T's you-ness. Like I've sucked it dry and there's none of him left in it. I want to take it in to him and get him to carry it around for a few days or rub it a bit or something to get some of him put back into it.
LOL I was thinking the same thing! I almost wanted to give it back so she can recharge it, but maybe then I wouldn't get it back.
lgl
Posted by LittleGirlLost on December 2, 2005, at 10:03:26
In reply to Re: Tokens holding their T-ness, posted by daisym on December 1, 2005, at 18:10:46
> For the elephant, take him in and ask your therapist to help you name him. It will be a connecting experience and an opportunity to talk about internalizing the security she gives you.
Hmmm that would be a good idea! Except, I already named him on my own... maybe I shouldn't have done that? Well, my little part named him. :)
Now I'm a little sad... that naming ceremony sounds nice.
lgl
Posted by muffled on December 2, 2005, at 12:14:57
In reply to Re: Tokens holding their T-ness » daisym, posted by LittleGirlLost on December 2, 2005, at 10:03:26
> > For the elephant, take him in and ask your therapist to help you name him. It will be a connecting experience and an opportunity to talk about internalizing the security she gives you.
>
> Hmmm that would be a good idea! Except, I already named him on my own... maybe I shouldn't have done that? Well, my little part named him. :)
>
> Now I'm a little sad... that naming ceremony sounds nice.
>
> lgl**Does your T know its name? Maybe you could bring it in and he could hold it awhile?
Maybe stick it his armpit for a bolus of T smell!!Kidding, not meaning to be nasty. You seem to have good sense of humour is all :)
Sorry your struggling.
Muffled
Posted by daisym on December 2, 2005, at 23:40:45
In reply to Re: Tokens holding their T-ness » daisym, posted by LittleGirlLost on December 2, 2005, at 10:03:26
So give him a middle name...
Or buy him a sibling and take them both in to meet your therapist. There are lots of ways to get reconnected around this.
What did you name him?
Posted by LittleGirlLost on December 4, 2005, at 0:00:30
In reply to Re: Tokens holding their T-ness » LittleGirlLost, posted by muffled on December 2, 2005, at 12:14:57
> **Does your T know its name? Maybe you could bring it in and he could hold it awhile?
I'm not really sure if she knows its name... I suppose I could bring it back for her to recharge, but I'm kinda worried that maybe I've kept it too long? I don't know... when she gave it to me, she didn't say when she wanted it back, but I'm sure she does since she has the momma elephant still on her shelf.
> Maybe stick it his armpit for a bolus of T smell!!Kidding, not meaning to be nasty. You seem to have good sense of humour is all :)
LOL Muffled; you are too funny!! I think I'll pass on that, but thanks for the laugh. :)
lgl
Posted by LittleGirlLost on December 4, 2005, at 0:04:13
In reply to Re: Tokens holding their T-ness » LittleGirlLost, posted by daisym on December 2, 2005, at 23:40:45
> What did you name him?
I named him Chuck. LOL, I have no idea why... it just came to me!
Then my little part named "her" Tina. LOL, again no idea why.. maybe because it sounds a little like peanut. And the elephant is a girl.
lgl
Posted by muffled on December 4, 2005, at 0:36:45
In reply to Re: Tokens holding their T-ness » muffled, posted by LittleGirlLost on December 4, 2005, at 0:00:30
> I'm not really sure if she knows its name... I suppose I could bring it back for her to recharge, but I'm kinda worried that maybe I've kept it too long? I don't know... when she gave it to me, she didn't say when she wanted it back, but I'm sure she does since she has the momma elephant still on her shelf.
***Whoa, she gave you the baby and she has the mom elephant. Gosh that was so cool of her. That'd be awful if she wanted it back. What did she say when she gave it to you? She did give it to you? The naming thing is cool.
Muffled
Posted by LittleGirlLost on December 5, 2005, at 12:22:19
In reply to Re: Tokens holding their T-ness, posted by muffled on December 4, 2005, at 0:36:45
> ***Whoa, she gave you the baby and she has the mom elephant. Gosh that was so cool of her. That'd be awful if she wanted it back. What did she say when she gave it to you? She did give it to you? The naming thing is cool.
lol well I call it the mom and baby since the one she has is bigger. Yes she did give it to me, though I honestly cannot remember what she said. I just remember how touched I felt that she would actually do it. I've read how some therapists give their clients something, but I just never thought her to be the type. I assume she would want it back eventually though.
lgl
Posted by muffled on December 5, 2005, at 12:29:11
In reply to Re: Tokens holding their T-ness » muffled, posted by LittleGirlLost on December 5, 2005, at 12:22:19
> lol well I call it the mom and baby since the one she has is bigger. Yes she did give it to me, though I honestly cannot remember what she said. I just remember how touched I felt that she would actually do it. I've read how some therapists give their clients something, but I just never thought her to be the type. I assume she would want it back eventually though.
***I dunno, seems to me that if a person gives somebody something that they shouldn't expect it back. I guess you could ask. If its lost its T'ness anyways?.....Yeah, it was REAL nice for her to give it to you.
Muffled
Even if she wants it back, DON"T GIVE IT TO HER!!!!!!!Keep it forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(I think its Muffly saying that!!!!!HA!)
Posted by LittleGirlLost on December 5, 2005, at 14:14:25
In reply to Re: Tokens holding their T-ness, posted by muffled on December 5, 2005, at 12:29:11
> ***I dunno, seems to me that if a person gives somebody something that they shouldn't expect it back.
lol, I agree with you, but it wasn't like giving a gift. I think it was more along the lines of, "would it help to hold on to this while we are apart?" Again, I don't remember what or how she said, but what I wrote sounds like something she would say. :) Though I do remember when she gave it to me, it didn't seem like a forever thing. I feel a little guilty that I've had it this long; though I still want it.
Posted by littleone on December 5, 2005, at 14:42:19
In reply to Re: Tokens holding their T-ness, posted by daisym on December 1, 2005, at 18:10:46
> And for the hanky, take it back in and ask him to put his initials on the corner (take a sharpie or something.) This will personalize it again for you and you'll never forget where it came from. (not that you would)
Okay firstly, what's a sharpie??? Some sort of knife? Me and knives don't really get on.
And as for the hanky, it's got his initials embroidered in the corner already. It's already very personalised. I just can't keep it associated with him. I guess it's all part of my object constancy problems.
It worked really well at first because I could picture and feel him giving it to me when I saw/felt the hanky. But I don't remember any of that now. I mean, I remember that he gave it to me, but I can't picture it or feel it or anything anymore. It's just something I know. Like I know the sky is blue or ducks say quack or whatever.
I have a lot of trouble holding on to him in my mind. Usually I can remember him throughout the evening after a session, but that's about it. Sometimes I can't even do that. Sometimes I lose him as soon as I've walked out of his office. Makes me want to run back in and grab some part of him that will stay with me a bit longer. I don't mean physically grab him. More like grab part of his essence.
Posted by 10derHeart on December 5, 2005, at 15:19:25
In reply to Re: Tokens holding their T-ness » daisym, posted by littleone on December 5, 2005, at 14:42:19
>>I have a lot of trouble holding on to him in my mind. Usually I can remember him throughout the evening after a session, but that's about it. Sometimes I can't even do that. Sometimes I lose him as soon as I've walked out of his office. Makes me want to run back in and grab some part of him that will stay with me a bit longer. I don't mean physically grab him. More like grab part of his essence.<<
This part really made me tear up. I feel *exactly* like this SO often. I so, so, so understand this, littleone. And it's so d@mn frustrating and scary. <sigh>
Oh, and about the sharpie...no worries, Miss Daisy wasn't talking about a knife. A Sharpie (that's the brand name of the best-selling brand) is just a permanent marker, that's all. :-)
ps - I loved this thread. It brought up stuff I need to talk about with T. more than I already do (which seems like too much) but makes me cry too easily and become speechless...
Posted by littleone on December 5, 2005, at 19:54:13
In reply to Re: Tokens holding their T-ness » littleone, posted by 10derHeart on December 5, 2005, at 15:19:25
Thanks for that info re the sharpie. I must admit that I couldn't quite picture myself carving his initials into my hanky :)
Posted by LittleGirlLost on December 5, 2005, at 20:03:53
In reply to Re: Tokens holding their T-ness » daisym, posted by littleone on December 5, 2005, at 14:42:19
> It worked really well at first because I could picture and feel him giving it to me when I saw/felt the hanky. But I don't remember any of that now. I mean, I remember that he gave it to me, but I can't picture it or feel it or anything anymore. It's just something I know. Like I know the sky is blue or ducks say quack or whatever.
I feel *exactly* the same. It's like I said in another post... I don't remember what she said when she gave it to me, or anything. All I remember is leaning forward in my chair to reach it; and I was just speechless. I was very touched.
> I have a lot of trouble holding on to him in my mind. Usually I can remember him throughout the evening after a session, but that's about it. Sometimes I can't even do that. Sometimes I lose him as soon as I've walked out of his office. Makes me want to run back in and grab some part of him that will stay with me a bit longer. I don't mean physically grab him. More like grab part of his essence.
Yes! This is me exactly! Often when we talk about it, she will ask me what happens when I walk out the door... cos that's usually when it all starts for me. ((((hugs))) I know how you feel, and I know how painful it can be.
p.s. Though the question wasn't for me, just wanted to clarify that a Sharpie is just a marker. It has a sharp (as opposed to a thick/wide) point. :)
I think it's so cool that his hanky is personalized though.lgl
Posted by daisym on December 6, 2005, at 0:21:56
In reply to Re: Tokens holding their T-ness » daisym, posted by littleone on December 5, 2005, at 14:42:19
I have a hard time with this sometimes too, and it feels so empty when it happens. Other times I clearly hear him in my head and he stays with me much more easily.
We've talked about this and one of the things that has helped is that he said it was OK to reach for him out in the cosmos. He said to send my thoughts out, he doesn't mind the psychic intrusion. :) But it has helped to just stop for a moment and think of him and know he is still there. I tease him about needing to know where he is -- I want a web cam of a cardboard cutout of him in his office so I can be reassured. Once I said, "you mean you don't live here (in his office) with a hot plate and a murphy bed?!"
Do you take the hanky with you to your sessions? It seems like if you took it consistently it would pick up the essence of your therapist and remind you more of him. I think it is really cool it has his initials already on it. But if he didn't write them, it isn't his handwriting, and that might make it even more personal. Just a thought.
Posted by daisym on December 6, 2005, at 0:31:57
In reply to Re: Tokens holding their T-ness » littleone, posted by 10derHeart on December 5, 2005, at 15:19:25
Tender,
Have you read much about self-psychology? There is a concept of fragmentation that resonated with me. It seems that some of us have such a strong false self that allowing a real attachment, with our real self is super scary. The real self has a variety of needs that come to the surface with this new attachment and separation feels threatening and intolerable. The description is a panic that comes from the feeling of completely coming apart - hugely painful, almost deathlike in its grip. And there is shame around the extremeness (is that a word?) of this panic. Sometimes it isn't that we can't hold onto our concept of them, it is that we are truely worried that they have no thoughts of us, no way of holding us from afar.
Anyway -- the whole thing helped me a lot because I couldn't believe how awful the separation anxiety was. Shockingly painful.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.