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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by happyflower on November 29, 2005, at 11:12:05
How do you know if you are depressed? It there a certain period of time where just feeling down is going on too long and it is depression? Does it come with anger and frusteration too?
I just don't feel like doing anything lately and I have trouble getting to sleep and staying asleep. I am still exercising a lot, but it is a real stuggle. In yoga, my concentration is really bad lately, and if you know about yoga, it is very hard to balance in poseses if you can't concentrate. And then that makes it very frusterating. I don't think I have ever been depressed, so how do I know if I am ? Or am I just in the dumps this month? I just feel so stressed.
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 29, 2005, at 11:49:49
In reply to Depression questions, posted by happyflower on November 29, 2005, at 11:12:05
I think you might be. Anger, difficulty sleeping, concentrating and getting things done are all signs of it. I have just been wondering to myself the combination of wonderful changes and difficult decisions/possible losses which you have gone through in the last year. You have obviously gotten SO much better from your therapy- to the point where you- and others-really know it. Aiming to play classical trumpet is so exciting, and will be so much fun.
But you did describe quite severe abuse in your childhood, as well as the enormous stress of an ill mother. I have always thought that your therapy, while extremely helpful, was awfully short.
Now you are going only once a month, which sounds like a termination phase. It might be, that, while you made all these wonderful changes in just a year, that there are lingering, perhaps less conscious feelings from your childhood which you are now strong enough to address. And you have the situation of a very positive (sexy?) transference and counter-transference. I think that's a great gift! But, having experienced it myself, I do think it needs to be worked through. If I were going to choose for you, I would love to see you go to your T about twice a week for several more years- and just deal with whatever comes up! I am in my third year of psychoanalysis. I am so much more confident and able to function much closer to my abilities, but in the analysis itself, I am dealing with early trauma and suffering that I scarcely knew about. It is frightening. I feel very regressed in my sessions- almost like I'm sicker- but when they are over, the adult me sort of pops back up, and I realize how much my analyst has helped me.It would also be good to work out your marriage situation- one way or another- while you still have the support and help of your therapist. You have something wonderful- you and your therapist are a really "good match" I would use that to get as strong and well as you can (you have already shown that you are well on your way). Have all the romantic and sexual feelings, but don't act them out. He has so much more to give you as your therapist.
From personal experience, i would be very cautious about starting medications, if you and he conclude that you are clinically depressed. I'd rely more on the therapeutic alliance which you have- it's better than anythink that comes in a bottle! I'm just saying this to you, as you are now. Many people really do need them, and they can be life-savers.
Posted by happyflower on November 29, 2005, at 12:09:58
In reply to Re: Depression questions » happyflower, posted by Pfinstegg on November 29, 2005, at 11:49:49
This Thursday I have therapy at noon and a GP doctor appointment around 3 pm. I want to see my doctor to see if there is something that I can take to help me get to sleep. I think it would help me a lot. I don't want any bad side effects though.
I seem to get like this in the winter when I can't go outside and garden (my first love). Maybe I have that one disorder? Part of it is my cycle I am sure, but I think I should feel better than I am. I just can't get my house clean, and I don't feel like cooking either. This just sucks.
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 29, 2005, at 12:25:29
In reply to Re: Depression questions » Pfinstegg, posted by happyflower on November 29, 2005, at 12:09:58
If you have noticed a seasonal aspect, getting one of the really good quality light-boxes to use for 20-30 minutes in the morning can really help. Gardenergirl uses one, and can tell you about it.
Did I hit a raw spot in suggesting continuing therapy? I didn't mean to, but i do think your course of therapy, while really helpful, was much shorter than what most of us do.
Posted by happyflower on November 29, 2005, at 15:29:52
In reply to Re: Depression questions » happyflower, posted by Pfinstegg on November 29, 2005, at 12:25:29
No, you didn't hit any sore spot about therapy. In fact you are the 2nd person I think that suggested that maybe I needed to go more than once a month. I think it was Tamar. You are right, I probably need to go more often, all I have to do is tell my T that, and he will. I couldn't afford once a week let alone 2 times a week. He sees most of his clients every 2 weeks. He is giving me a small price break, since insurance stopped paying months ago.
I will have to look into one of those light boxes, I think I noticed I get like this every winter since I was in high school. Maybe taking a walk outside might help. I am an outdoor girl, and I hate being stuck inside the house during winter. I think I would love cross country skiing. I love nature and gardening.
I think my marriage might be what is bringing me down so much. It is so hard, with the holiday traditions that we normally enjoy doing with each other, are now like walking on egg shells, so we don't upset our kids. I hate it, and I don't even want to do the stuff. It makes me sad.
My T commented that I am doing very well in spite of what is going on in my marriage, so that is why we spaced out my appointments. But now I am not doing so well. And plus there haven't been any changes in my marriage either, no talking, no sex, no nothing. I can't get him to open up and he won't do counceling so it feels so frusterating . I love my DH but sometimes it isn't enough. I guess it is also harder because I can't escape away at all those band rehearsals which kept me away from him at home some nights. Now I am stuck every night with him, and it is so depressing.
My T really helps me, so I guess I need to go more often. It just sucks because I feel like I am regressing, and I hate that. I feel like I hate everything. Sorry.
Posted by Dinah on November 29, 2005, at 17:34:43
In reply to Re: Depression questions » Pfinstegg, posted by happyflower on November 29, 2005, at 15:29:52
I wouldn't consider it regressing exactly. And I definitely wouldn't be getting angry with yourself over it.
It sounds as if you have a good grasp on the dynamics. If you live in the north, I understand that winter often increases depression. Down here, winter is one of the nicer times of year. :)
And marital problems bring lots of stress, and depression is one possible reaction to stress.
I'm sorry your husband isn't open to counseling. It's a lot harder to work on your marriage alone. Someone a while back recommended a book to me, but I can't recall the name. Something about when only one of you will work on your marriage. My marriage took an upswing shortly afterward, and I didn't follow through (unless it's in that stack of unread books).
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 29, 2005, at 17:56:32
In reply to Re: Depression questions » Pfinstegg, posted by happyflower on November 29, 2005, at 15:29:52
It is so painful to have to deal with your marriage, as it is now, (especially the holidays!)- maybe even more so because you have grown and blossomed out so much in your own therapy. In addition to the light box, i hope you will keep up your connnection to your therapist-at whatever frequency is possible. It seems like strength, happiness and personal fulfillment lie there- no matter what may, or may not happen in your personal life. You have demonstrated that you have the strength and emotional openness to really benefit from therapy; perhaps it will dawn on your husband that you are a loving and lovely woman who is growing all the time. Sometimes (not always), husbands really begin to think about what they might be able to do to grow themselves in a comparable way.
Posted by happyflower on November 29, 2005, at 19:28:35
In reply to NEXT STEPS » happyflower, posted by Pfinstegg on November 29, 2005, at 17:56:32
Thankyou Pfinstegg for giving me your ear. You have really helped me and I will talk about this with my T and my GP doc this Thursday. I wish it could come faster. I feel so lost without my T this week.
About my husband, I think he is threatened by the new me, I am more social, and doing a lot more personal fullfilling things for myself, I don't think he likes the new me. But right now I don't even like myself, I just want to crawl into a hole and stay there. I am not fun to be around this week. Part of it is hormonal.
But anyways, thanks again for caring, sometimes I feel like people don't like me here because of what I say about my T, and it makes me want to hide away.
Posted by happyflower on November 29, 2005, at 19:35:25
In reply to Re: Depression questions » happyflower, posted by Dinah on November 29, 2005, at 17:34:43
Hi Dinah,
If you remember the book name, let me know, maybe I should go look at the relationship book at Barnes and Noble. Maybe I should go anyways, it always cheers me up to drink a cappicino checking out books for hours.I am glad to see you say something positive about where you live. I guess all places has its postitives and negatives. I really do miss the warm sunshine on my back while I am planting flowers. :)
Does depression cause mood swings? My mood has been everywhere these last couple of weeks.
I hope you have a good T appointment tomorrow. :)
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 29, 2005, at 22:51:48
In reply to Re: NEXT STEPS » Pfinstegg, posted by happyflower on November 29, 2005, at 19:28:35
Although I havn't posted too much, I've been following your posts with a lot of interest and admiration. i just think it's great how much better you got in just a year! (for me, I'm getting there, but not so quickly).
My husband and I have faced some of the same challenges: when one person changes, the other one often feels very threatened, even though it is a healthy change. My own husband became quite hostile, as I became more lively and independent, but, I'm so glad to say, he sought treatment for himself, and we are doing so much better now.
I've never had the slightest negative feeling about your feelings about your therapist. I have the same ones about mine (he's gorgeous!), and I think the intensity of them has somehow brought about a lot of growth and joy in life for me. My T, though, has a lovely wife, whom I have seen, and so there was no way around it all other than to deal with it- over time. It wouldn'thave been right, either- it's just that one's feelings can get so strong- overpowering, really! I think every situation is different: there ARE people who have gone on to have in-life relationships with their therapists. Frieda Fromm Reichmann, who was very highly thought of (and still is) married her patient Erich Fromm, after treating him for six months! But, in general, it's much better if it doesn't happen.
Whatever happens, I hope you feel confident tht there are people here on the boards who understand, and would never judge you negatively- me, for example!
Posted by daisym on November 30, 2005, at 1:18:24
In reply to Re: NEXT STEPS » Pfinstegg, posted by happyflower on November 29, 2005, at 19:28:35
I'm sorry about the issues you are facing with your marriage. I know how hard that is. And yes, I think these things cause mood swings and some days are just very hard. I'm glad you are seeing your therapist this week.
Maybe part of your depression is related to not having seen your therapist - it has been a long time! And you are carrying a lot of feelings around for him, which can contribute to anxiety as well.
Posted by happyflower on November 30, 2005, at 9:16:44
In reply to Re: NEXT STEPS » happyflower, posted by daisym on November 30, 2005, at 1:18:24
Thanks Daisy,
You are probably right, I need more therapy. The holidays are so tough, normally I love them.
I have so much to say to my T, I don't think 50mins will be enough. I guess that is a clue that maybe I need to go more often. Thanks for your support. :)
Posted by happyflower on November 30, 2005, at 9:26:37
In reply to Re: NEXT STEPS » happyflower, posted by Pfinstegg on November 29, 2005, at 22:51:48
> Although I havn't posted too much, I've been following your posts with a lot of interest and admiration. i just think it's great how much better you got in just a year! (for me, I'm getting there, but not so quickly).
You are making feel all mushy inside. :)
> My own husband became quite hostile, as I became more lively and independent, but, I'm so glad to say, he sought treatment for himself, and we are doing so much better now.
I wish my DH would do at least indivdual therapy. I don't know how we are going to get through it without it.
> I've never had the slightest negative feeling about your feelings about your therapist. >
> Whatever happens, I hope you feel confident tht there are people here on the boards who understand, and would never judge you negatively- me, for example!Thank you for accepting me, it feel really good right now. I am a little nervous about seeing him tomorrow, it has been so long, and I am scared. Yikes!
Posted by happyflower on November 30, 2005, at 9:27:29
In reply to Re: NEXT STEPS, posted by happyflower on November 30, 2005, at 9:26:37
Posted by caraher on November 30, 2005, at 10:08:36
In reply to Depression questions, posted by happyflower on November 29, 2005, at 11:12:05
> How do you know if you are depressed? It there a certain period of time where just feeling down is going on too long and it is depression? Does it come with anger and frusteration too?
Technically the amount of time is important. Anger, frustration and lack of motivation or ability to concentrate are all symptoms I've experienced.
Have you taken any screening tests? One I like and have used to monitor myself is http://mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=973&cn=5
There are other similar tests based on diagnostic criteria for depression. This one I like because it is readily available and self-scoring. My own experience is that when I score above 30 or so there's noticeable impairment of my ability to function, and above 50 is hell on Earth.
Posted by happyflower on November 30, 2005, at 10:19:28
In reply to Re: Depression questions, posted by caraher on November 30, 2005, at 10:08:36
NOt good I guess. I guess I am f*cked up.
Posted by happyflower on November 30, 2005, at 10:57:37
In reply to I got a score of 50, posted by happyflower on November 30, 2005, at 10:19:28
Music by Elton John
Lyrics by Bernie Taupin
Available on the album Peachtree Road
It's getting dark in here
Don't want to leave
Shadow's falling
And I believe
Winds picking up
Thing's so unclear
I'm afraid of my shadow
And it's getting dark in here
I'm scared of strangers
On the street
World's so ugly
I can't breath
Moon's so spooky
I'm close to tears
I've lost it all
And it's getting dark in hereAnd the wait isn't worth what I'm getting
Sometimes I feel I'm on fire
I've been handed a curse and a blessing
My life's been stripped down to the wire
And I'm trying to get back and hold on
Find someone somewhere who cares
But the sun's always setting on my life
And it's sure getting dark in hereDon't talk about angels
Or how I'll be saved
I'm no coward
But I'm not that brave
Rags are blowing
Rain's getting near
I'm done with running
And it's getting dark in hereAnd the wait isn't worth what I'm getting
Sometimes I feel I'm on fire
I've been handed a curse and a blessing
My life's been stripped down to the wire
And I'm trying to get back and hold on
Find someone somewhere who cares
But the sun's always setting on my life
And it's sure getting dark in here
And the wait isn't worth what I'm getting
Sometimes I feel I'm on fire
I've been handed a curse and a blessing
My life's been stripped down to the wire
And I'm trying to get back and hold on
Find someone somewhere who cares
But the sun's always setting on my life
And it's sure getting dark in hereYeah, the sun's always setting on my life
And it's sure getting dark in here
Posted by B2chica on November 30, 2005, at 11:28:21
In reply to I got a score of 50, posted by happyflower on November 30, 2005, at 10:19:28
crap...i got a 40. i thought i was doing pretty well??
;^)
Posted by antigua on November 30, 2005, at 11:57:04
In reply to Re: I got a score of 50, posted by B2chica on November 30, 2005, at 11:28:21
and I thought I was much better! go figure...
antigua
Posted by Dinah on November 30, 2005, at 13:11:39
In reply to I got a score of 50, posted by happyflower on November 30, 2005, at 10:19:28
But I'm not sure it counts, because some answers are situational.
Posted by fallsfall on November 30, 2005, at 13:37:44
In reply to Re: I got a score of 50, posted by B2chica on November 30, 2005, at 11:28:21
Posted by Deneb on November 30, 2005, at 14:01:56
In reply to Re: Depression questions, posted by caraher on November 30, 2005, at 10:08:36
Woohoo! I scored an 8! If I had just a little bit more self esteem I'm sure my score would be even lower!
Deneb
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 30, 2005, at 14:06:39
In reply to I scored an 8!, posted by Deneb on November 30, 2005, at 14:01:56
For this week, it's 15. But two years ago, it was more than 50 for months at a time. Thank you, my T! (how can I ever begin to thank you, really)
Posted by TofuEmmy on November 30, 2005, at 17:07:35
In reply to I got a score of 57, posted by Dinah on November 30, 2005, at 13:11:39
True re situational...i just got home from a stinky day at work and scored a 79. Owie. I think I need a tune up.
em
Posted by caraher on December 1, 2005, at 8:58:02
In reply to rut roh » Dinah, posted by TofuEmmy on November 30, 2005, at 17:07:35
Yeah, if you take it on a particularly bad day it will really skew the results. Basically what I've found is that it seems most reliable if I make an effort to think how I've felt over the past week, rather than at the moment I'm taking it. I would take it every Monday and kept the results in an Excel spreadsheet (kinda like the idea of the Babbleometer), which was helpful in tracking progress (especially when I felt I wasn't making any).
The claim that a variation of less than about 5 points is not significant also accords well with my own experience. Finally, it's obviously subjective just how "bad" a given score is. My high score was 65, so my standard of how "bad" things can feel is probably very different from that of any particular individual here. 50 may not be so bad compared to where you've been, while 40 might be fairly serious for someone else. The scores also depend on just how one tends to answer a given question; we may feel basically the same yet select different answers to the same question.
So I think it works better for self-monitoring than anything else; but still, if you have no idea whether you are "depressed" it's a good start.
This is the end of the thread.
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