![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 2 to 26 of 26. Go back in thread:
Posted by fallsfall on October 21, 2005, at 18:10:12
In reply to Well, apparently I have poor tolerance, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 17:56:49
Maybe "self soothing" is something that is related to the pain, while distraction is something unrelated to the pain. Like if you are upset about vomit. Self soothing would be to explain to yourself that you know that there isn't anything intrisically dangerous about it, that if you wear gloves and are careful, that you can clean it up and dispose of it without it being damaging to you. Whereas distraction would be to go to another room and play with your dogs.
So it sounds like 3 out of 3 therapists agree on this... Sorry. I know that isn't what you wanted to hear. But at least they aren't telling you conflicting things...
Posted by Tamar on October 21, 2005, at 18:23:05
In reply to Well, apparently I have poor tolerance, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 17:56:49
> That's the conclusion of T2 and T3 both shared in the second meeting. So I suppose there's a consensus. :)
>
> They think I have a hard time tolerating anxiety or other strong emotions, so I use less than ideal ways of distracting myself. When what I should do is sit with the pain.Does anyone have an easy time tolerating anxiety? Hands up everyone who finds it simple!
> Something like that.
>
> I think she's got a hard job ahead of her, to tell the truth. I'd rather have less pain, not tolerate the pain I have better.Yes, exactly. But on the other hand, is there any way to make the pain less except by learning to tolerate it? If it’s out of our control, perhaps we need to find ways of learning to live with it. I don’t know any way to prevent it happening in the first place…
> I'm supposed to add to my self soothing repertoire, though for me it's hard to distinguish self soothing from distraction, except one is admired and the other disapproved of.
Yeah. I know what you mean. I still don’t think I really know the difference. And I reckon that some of the techniques other people use to self-soothe I find are distractions for me (like exercise, though as a distraction it’s excellent). There’s only one thing I can think of that really soothes me (apart from sleep) so I guess I need to add to my repertoire too…
Tamar
Posted by alexandra_k on October 21, 2005, at 18:35:28
In reply to Well, apparently I have poor tolerance, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 17:56:49
> That's the conclusion of T2 and T3 both shared in the second meeting.
> It's not like T1 hasn't told me this a million times. It's just that it's easier for me to tell him to go take a flying leap...
> So I suppose there's a consensus. :)Or... That makes it three against one.
> They think I have a hard time tolerating anxiety or other strong emotions, so I use less than ideal ways of distracting myself.> I'd rather have less pain, not tolerate the pain I have better.
Okay. So you agree that painful emotions are a problem because you use 'less than ideal ways of distracting'?
So the disagreement is over whether they should help you
1) Reduce the painful emotions so they aren't so painful anymore.
2) Teach you how to better cope with those painful emotions.They like the latter and you like the former.
> I'm supposed to add to my self soothing repertoire, though for me it's hard to distinguish self soothing from distraction, except one is admired and the other disapproved of.I think that both should be admired!
I did a skills training module on 'distress tolerance' when I did DBT. The difference between 'distraction' and 'coping' (self-soothing)... Distraction is about focusing your attention on something other than the emotion. If you are upset about something then if you go do some physical exercise, watch some tv, or do something else basically then that counts as distraction. There are more or less healthy ways to distract. Physical exercise is probably a more healthy distraction than self harm, for example.
Long term... Distraction doesn't really work. But as a short term getting through kind of thing it can work pretty well. Sometimes we just need to distract ourself and the situation sorts itself out. Other times, in the long term... Distraction can be harmful because we are basically avoiding whatever it is that is upsetting to us. And in some cases avoiding the source of the upset only leads to the situation getting worse.
Self soothing is different. If you are feeling sad then taking a long hot bath with candles or something like that is self-soothing. It doesn't really distract you from the emotion but you are taking special care to comfort yourself while you are having the emotion. Self soothing can result in a reduction in the felt distress of the emotion. So grief is an example of an emotion that it can be unhealthy to distract from long term and self soothing can help the grief seem manageable so one is able to feel it and it is less likely to knock one back by catching one by suprise when you really need to be focusing on other things.
I have been reading about emotion...
Current thinking is that there are two appraisal systems. The first one produces an automatic (involountary) physiological response and an affect program (changes to your facial expression, tone of voice, posture, etc). These responses are short lived.
This appraisal system (for the 'basic' emotions of sadness, anger, fear, disgust, and happiness) can operate independently of the other appraisal system. That means that these basic emotions are not amenable to being changed by thought processes. No matter how much you rationally know the urine is sterile you are still going to feel disgust at the prospect of drinking it. Phobias can be like this too where rationally you know spiders are harmless and yet they still continue to trigger a fear response in you.
We just can't prevent these emotional responses.
Your t's can't help you (rationally) learn how to prevent these because that just isn't possible.
On the upside these emotional responses are fairly short lived and not typically debilitating.Then... There is another appraisal system. Most theorists like to think that the more complex emotion episodes (that really interest us) are built out of basic emotions (like how water is built out of hydrogen and oxygen). But you can't just add together the different basic emotions and physiological responses and affect programs to make the more complex emotion episodes so more must be going on here...
Some theorists think that there is more of a cognitive componant to these more complex emotion episodes. This seems to be the case for some of them. Guilt and shame seem to be the result of more of a cognitive appraisal / judgement / interpretation. If you lift or alter the judgement, or change the interpretation then the emotion typically lessens in intensity and / or vanishes altogether.
I don't know... It gets complicated.
It seems to me that there are two things we can do with our emotions.
1) Change them (which seems to be where you are focused)
2) Accept them (which seems to be where your t's are focused)IMO it is wise to cultivate BOTH strategies. There are many techniques for cultivating each strategy.
Linehan is one theorist who really emphasises the acceptance of distressing emotional states.
The way I found best suited to me was mindfulness meditation. I could feel my emotion but also be aware that I was not my emotion. My emotion was one thing that was going on and there were many other things going on as well (my breathing, my thought processes, my sense of sight etc). This awareness and acceptance of my emotional state...
Well... Paradoxically if you can really accept that you are having a distressing emotion and see that it is okay (because you are not your emotion your emotion is just one thing that is going on inside you) If you can really come to see that... The paradox is that accepting it actually does result in a change to the felt quality of it. It doesn't seem TOO distressing or unmanageable anymore. You can feel it and it might hurt a bit, but not heaps. It is maneagable. It will pass when it is ready.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 21, 2005, at 18:44:25
In reply to Re: Well, apparently I have poor tolerance » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on October 21, 2005, at 18:35:28
Linehan says we have to learn acceptance for acceptance's sake.
Acceptance for the sake of change isn't really acceptance, you see.
She thinks...
That the therapist should be prepared to change strategy between acceptance and change to meet the client.
If the client is resisting change... Then cultivate acceptance.
If the client is resisting acceptance... Then cultivate change.There are limits to each...
But taken together...
Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 19:08:33
In reply to Well, apparently I have poor tolerance, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 17:56:49
Snuggling with the pups is self soothing.
Taking a klonopin is distraction. (Ok, that one is clear.)
Relaxation and calming my mind are a distraction, possibly because I calm the thoughts right out of it. Ok. But meditation is good. I don't totally get that.
Exercise is the good sort. Orgasm is the bad sort. I definitely don't get that. Would orgasm be the good sort if it was relationship related?
An enthusiasm is the bad sort.
Forgetting sleeps are the bad sort.
Obsessive fears are the bad sort (ok, I'll agree with that).
But I don't know more of the good sort. Meditation is good, but I don't understand why. How is it different from the relaxation I do so well?
Snuggling with the pups is the good sort. That's the only thing I know for sure. But if I snuggle with the pups and a good tv show, would that be the bad sort?
Is therapy self soothing or a distraction?
Ok, I know that all the things I do are wrong. But they're not nearly as specific telling me what's right. And why is exercise supposed to be so good for it? When I physically exercise when I'm upset, my upset just takes on a rhythm.
I'll never understand any of this if I live to be C.
Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 19:31:23
In reply to Re: Well, apparently I have poor tolerance » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on October 21, 2005, at 18:35:28
> > That's the conclusion of T2 and T3 both shared in the second meeting.
> > It's not like T1 hasn't told me this a million times. It's just that it's easier for me to tell him to go take a flying leap...
> > So I suppose there's a consensus. :)
>
> Or... That makes it three against one.Hmmm... You've got a point there. Ok, I partially agree because I'd like to use more productive distractions like work, rather than costly ones like enthusiasms, or unpleasant ones like obsessive fears. My mind just seems to make the less productive choices without my control. Or maybe the earnest "good" choices don't offer sufficient distraction.
And the consensus isn't total.
T1 has seen me through far more destructive distractions than the ones I use now, and is happy at incremental improvement. He feels sort of resignedly frustrated trying for more. And he has learned that acceptance works best with me, because if he can reach the right level of acceptance, I'll try to change myself. But he accepts me whether or not I do. And I think maybe he's given up expecting me to do much better, and is happy enough for me to do as well as I can.
T2 appeared to outright disapprove.
T3 seems to think I could do better, but appears to have a certain level of amused acceptance of my strength of will - so far at least.
So the consensus feels a lot different, other than the basic thought that I don't tolerate pain well.
And I don't really get that. It seems like I tolerate pain all the time, or at least enough of it that I shouldn't be accused of that so much.
Like, part of it was in terms of sexuality. It's true that I don't like to have more sex than I need to because it hurts on many levels. But it's also true that I have as much sex as I need to, so that my husband isn't really aware of the extent of the problem. So is the problem that I need to tolerate pain in sex, or anxiety in sex, or whatever she thinks it is?
> > I'm supposed to add to my self soothing repertoire, though for me it's hard to distinguish self soothing from distraction, except one is admired and the other disapproved of.
>
> I think that both should be admired!Sigh. I thought so too. I seem to remember some textbook or something that had the types of coping mechanisms and their maturity level. I thought distraction was thought of as in the more mature level along with humor and whatever else.
And... I'm not altogether sure I do use distraction to avoid issues. I think I tend to use it to reduce my arousal level to where I *can* go back and look at what upset me in a more productive way.
And I'm not sure why that would be wrong?
In your levels of emotion, I would say that I get hit with the physiological level of emotion, and since that is what it is, I distract to reduce the physiological arousal.
Then I look with more objectivity at the situation, thus changing what I can of the secondary level of emotion.
And what they seem to be saying is that it is wrong to do that. That it is somehow "right" to bear the physiological arousal. I'm just not sure why that's supposed to be morally superior. Or even more helpful.
Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 19:31:47
In reply to Re: Well, apparently I have poor tolerance, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 19:31:23
Posted by daisym on October 21, 2005, at 20:02:38
In reply to I still get confused, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 19:08:33
Me too. I think this is a damned as you do and damned as you don't thing.
distraction can also be called denial. Denial they tell us is BAD.
Self-soothing can also be called selfish or self-centered. Those are BAD too.
*sigh* I really like my therapist's stance on this. He says, "whatever works, works. Screw the shoulds, and shouldn'ts. As long as you aren't hurting yourself." He is talking about the short term survival, get through the days, strategies of course.
I wish I had the answers for you, Dinah. I guess I like how Alex put it, change or acceptance, knowing they will switch on and off continually.
Hang in there.
Posted by Tamar on October 21, 2005, at 20:58:14
In reply to Re: Well, apparently I have poor tolerance, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 19:31:23
> And I don't really get that. It seems like I tolerate pain all the time, or at least enough of it that I shouldn't be accused of that so much.
That’s a good point. I suppose a question should be: how much pain are you tolerating? And how much should you be able to tolerate? (Compared with what/whom?) Have you ever attempted to assess how much pain you’re experiencing on a day-to-day basis, for a week or so? I’m guessing if T1 is mostly CBT he’ll have tried that sort of thing with you already…
> Like, part of it was in terms of sexuality. It's true that I don't like to have more sex than I need to because it hurts on many levels. But it's also true that I have as much sex as I need to, so that my husband isn't really aware of the extent of the problem. So is the problem that I need to tolerate pain in sex, or anxiety in sex, or whatever she thinks it is?
Interesting example. It seems to me that many people are willing to say that we need to be able to handle grief and anger and disappointment, but that we shouldn’t have to engage in sexual practices that distress us. Is sex very different? I feel inclined to say that it is different… At least… I know that sex can be painful because of particular medical conditions. But if it’s painful in the absence of conditions that are known to cause painful sex, that seems different. And I know that some people like to engage in sexual practices that involve fear and pain and testing trust to its limits… but is that the same thing as feeling anxious during sex that isn’t about BDSM? I still think it’s different.
I think the difference is: if a person engages in sexual activity knowing that she wants and likes sex, and expecting some arousal or satisfaction from it, then it may be possible to tolerate pain and anxiety. But if a person engages in sexual activity knowing that it will not arouse or satisfy her, and hoping mainly that it will be over as quickly as possible, then the pain and anxiety become intolerable. People seem to be able to take a lot of pain during sex if they’re also aroused. Without arousal, pain is only painful.
> Sigh. I thought so too. I seem to remember some textbook or something that had the types of coping mechanisms and their maturity level. I thought distraction was thought of as in the more mature level along with humor and whatever else.
Maturity level? Gosh… I bet mine are all deeply immature! I use humour, but particularly childish kinds of humour…
> And... I'm not altogether sure I do use distraction to avoid issues. I think I tend to use it to reduce my arousal level to where I *can* go back and look at what upset me in a more productive way.
>
> And I'm not sure why that would be wrong?I’m with you. It makes perfect sense to me!
It sounds like an area where you could find yourself trying to answer some really difficult and soul-searching questions…
Tamar
Posted by JenStar on October 21, 2005, at 21:43:07
In reply to Well, apparently I have poor tolerance, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 17:56:49
hi Dinah,
well, I think it's an imperfect science. And everyone is going to have their own opinion of what constitutes self-soothing and how that differs from distraction, and whether it's OK to use one or both. I also think the definition is going to vary depending on whether the definer (each T) needs to do self-soothing or distracting him/her self. I find that people seem to understand it better when they suffer from a condition that means they need to do it. If they're only talking "textbook" they're making best guesses, and that's only going to be approximate...I personally think that whatever helps you get through the day without harming you....is good distraction! Whether it's working out, snuggling with pets, watching a TV show, reading a book, knitting, reading for the blind, etc.
I suppose if the self-soothing behavior is something potentially damaging (like cutting, casual sex with strangers, binge eating, outright neglect of a job to sit home and watch Springer) THEN those things would be "bad." But if the activities in and of themselves are positive or neutral, why should they be considered "bad"? I guess I don't get that either.
I think it depends on whether the anxieties and strong emotions can be "conquered." If they CAN (for instance, a fear of vomit, fear of elevators, fear of airplanes) then you should work through it. But if it's a fear that can never be conquered, and just needs to be pushed down and out of sight from time to time (fear of death? maybe?) then perhaps distraction is the right way to go. But I'm no expert. :)
I guess in the best of worlds, we'd all be able to find self-soothing and distracting activities that ENHANCE our lives. Wouldn't it be cool if we all went out and made lots of money, or lost lots of weight, or did all kinds of charitable things when we were trying to distract? Maybe that's something *I* should work on -- trying to turn my distraction activities into things I'd later be proud that I did...
hmmmm...
But I hope that T3 works out and is helpful to you now in your current struggles. take care!
JenStar
Posted by alexandra_k on October 21, 2005, at 22:36:03
In reply to Re: Well, apparently I have poor tolerance, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 19:31:23
>I'd like to use more productive distractions like work, rather than costly ones like enthusiasms, or unpleasant ones like obsessive fears.
>My mind just seems to make the less productive choices without my control.
>Or maybe the earnest "good" choices don't offer sufficient distraction.I remember that in DBT skills training group we were given handouts of lists of things we could do to distract ourselves from negative emotions. I think we had lists of things we could do to self-soothe too. You might be able to find a link to the handouts online.
We found that different people were more inclined to try some of the strategies over others. Different people found different sorts of strategies worked best for them. In a way... Having a large list of strategies of things to do means that... you can pretty much always do something off the list. And the emotion passes.
Work... can be more of a stress in itself than a distraction from other things sometimes.
In a way I guess they provide things to do that can be done mindfully...
> T1 has seen me through far more destructive distractions than the ones I use now, and is happy at incremental improvement.
I feel like my progress is really slow sometimes too.
>And I think maybe he's given up expecting me to do much better, and is happy enough for me to do as well as I can.
So the message you take is that 'The best I can do is to have an incremental improvement'
?> T3 seems to think I could do better, but appears to have a certain level of amused acceptance of my strength of will - so far at least.
:-)
>I don't tolerate pain well.
I don't think many people do. I think it is something that most people could learn to be better at. Because it is preferable to be able to tolerate what you cannot change than to not be able to tolerate it but have to tolerate it regardless. That, it itself, helps one feel better. And then there is the point that one sometimes chooses to tolerate an emotion because that is preferable to changing the situation. It is an alternative to change at any rate. And also:
Acceptance is change.
And when we can't change the world we can change ourselves
By accepting ourselves.
Whereas if you try and change it...
Most people resist other people trying to 'do things' to them.
Especially when they are causing pain
That they are having trouble tolerating it.> And I don't really get that. It seems like I tolerate pain all the time, or at least enough of it that I shouldn't be accused of that so much.
I think you are doing really well to cope as well as you have with what has gone on for you in your life lately. You should be proud of your ability to cope.
But that being said... I think most people could find benefit to learn how to cope better with painful emotions.
>I seem to remember some textbook or something that had the types of coping mechanisms and their maturity level. I thought distraction was thought of as in the more mature level along with humor and whatever else.Sublimation? I think thats how work is supposed to come into it (ideally)...
I think... Distraction from things you are powerless to change. Once I've sent my applications off there is no point in my dwelling too much on whether I'll get in or not. I am best to pretty much distract / throw myself as best I can into my current project (or something else if it comes to that) because worrying won't change anything.
But if you distract repeatedly from grieving... Well, some things will come back to bite you in the *ss if you try to repress them or continually distract from them or avoid them.
> That it is somehow "right" to bear the physiological arousal.Maybe... That will help with the sex thing?
Maybe... Its about you feeling your bodily experiences and being able to accept them instead of feeling numb or otherwise dissociating from or avoiding them?>I'm just not sure why that's supposed to be morally superior. Or even more helpful.
Maybe... It will reduce your pain. And that would be preferable. Because you do hurt sometimes.
:-(
We all do.Sounds like you have a lot to ask about clarifying next time.
:-)
Posted by gardenergirl on October 21, 2005, at 23:23:34
In reply to Re: Well, apparently I have poor tolerance » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on October 21, 2005, at 22:36:03
> I remember that in DBT skills training group we were given handouts of lists of things we could do to distract ourselves from negative emotions. I think we had lists of things we could do to self-soothe too. You might be able to find a link to the handouts online.
Here is a site where you can find DBT handouts and lessons based on Linehan's program. It's a self help site.
http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/html/dbt_handouts.htmlActually, I've been thinking of asking the group if anyone wanted to work through the lessons together? I've used some, but I would be much better at 'splaining them and modelling them if (I think terrics said) I could work through them myself, too.
I also think that there are wide range of coping mechanisms, and almost of any of them are effective in some way at some times and not others. I think the "good" or "bad" aspect of using a coping mechanism is how effective is it?Does it cause harm? Do you use one to the exclusion of others or rigidly? That's how I tend to look at how people cope.
>
> >My mind just seems to make the less productive choices without my control.This is where Linehan would say that you need to practice these skills when you DON'T need them in order to be able to call on them when you do. Kind of like learning to drive first in a empty parking lot, then a quiet neighborhood street, then a busier street, etc. on up to LA freeways. (I'm never going to get that good at driving, but you get the point.) :)
>
>
> >I seem to remember some textbook or something that had the types of coping mechanisms and their maturity level. I thought distraction was thought of as in the more mature level along with humor and whatever else.I think Alex made a good distinction about how distraction can be helpful, but not if it's the only one you use for a long term or recurring problem.
>
> Sublimation? I think thats how work is supposed to come into it (ideally)...yep
>
> >I'm just not sure why that's supposed to be morally superior. Or even more helpful.Hmmm, maybe it's the morally superior aspect of it that's part of the conflict? I suppose I don't someone's coping repertoire so much from a moral standpoint or even a superior or inferior. I tend to look to see if they are effective in what they do, and that they do have some variety and flexibility. Heck, I drink a glass of wine to soothe myself at times. Some might frown on that.
>I think it's great that you are thinking about this issue and trying with a new T. That in and of itself is flexible coping, because you could just be trying to distract yourself from not being able to see T1. And you could be willfully (Linehan's word) digging in your heals and trying everything under the sun to get in to see T1 on a regular basis. But instead, you are willingly (Linehan) accepting your situation, and making effective attempts to get your needs met.
That's all good. And huge progress from what I remember from when I first starting posting here.
gg
Posted by alexandra_k on October 22, 2005, at 4:05:52
In reply to DBT distress tolerance and other skills, posted by gardenergirl on October 21, 2005, at 23:23:34
I remember there being an activity list of about 200 different distraction activities. I think it is is the skills training manual, but it doesn't seem to be available from that site.
Posted by Dinah on October 22, 2005, at 10:40:55
In reply to DBT distress tolerance and other skills, posted by gardenergirl on October 21, 2005, at 23:23:34
I've been trying to start a DBT working together thread for forever, but no one seems overly interested. :(
I would be, though. I kind of think DBT is one of those things that should be taught in kindergarten. Yeah, sometimes it's pretty obvious. But there is probably something everyone can learn and benefit from in it.
Posted by Dinah on October 22, 2005, at 10:43:00
In reply to Re: DBT distress tolerance and other skills » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on October 22, 2005, at 10:40:55
No doubt this is part of my defense against having my defenses changed, but I'm having trouble really understanding what's being said to me.
Maybe I'll go read my DBT book, and try again later.
Although I do have a lot of office work that's beckoning to me.
lololololol
Posted by Dinah on October 22, 2005, at 10:56:08
In reply to Arrrrgh!!!, posted by Dinah on October 22, 2005, at 10:43:00
I should say that probably part of my problem with this focus right now (ok, I'll admit I have a problem with it) is that I'm pretty darned pleased with myself for handling all the stuff I've been going through better than I ever thought I could.
All right, I've been taking more Risperdal than I should for my health, and eating a bit too much, and my concentration is so poor that I don't always follow through as well as I sound, so that people at the office think I'm doing better than I am, and are going to be disappointed. Or sometimes I focus too well, but it's on an enthusiasm, not on my work. But all things considered, that's pretty good.
There was a time when I thought that the things that happened this month would have me in the hospital, or at the very least using such poor coping mechanisms that I probably should be in the hospital. But I'm not.
I think it's up for debate about whether T3 is at least partially a distraction, though. T2 was a legitimate attempt to move on with my life. But T3 was more of a "Well, I wanted sex therapy anyway. Now seems a good time to do it, since I may lose my therapist and it's probably best to have a professional already assigned to me if I do." Not the noblest of motives.
Still, perhaps I'm looking for those therapists to be telling me how well I'm doing. Not how poorly I'm choosing my coping strategies. And I guess, except for T1, they have no real way of knowing that. They are seeing someone who appears to be pulled together and functioning pretty well, then discovering that I'm doing these things that they think are less good than other things they can think of. And I think they think I'm wallowing in neuroticism. When if they saw me a rocking crying wreck the way T1 has, or with very poor reality testing, or SI'ing, or not functioning at all, they'd be reinforcing my better coping skills. Thinking that I moved all the way up to neurotic.
I think I'm presenting too well. :(
Posted by alexandra_k on October 22, 2005, at 13:57:14
In reply to Re: DBT distress tolerance and other skills » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on October 22, 2005, at 10:40:55
> I've been trying to start a DBT working together thread for forever, but no one seems overly interested. :(
I'm happy to follow along if people want to do that. I just didn't want to get it started...
Posted by alexandra_k on October 22, 2005, at 14:01:58
In reply to Actually, posted by Dinah on October 22, 2005, at 10:56:08
>I'm pretty darned pleased with myself for handling all the stuff I've been going through better than I ever thought I could.
:-)
Thats great.
I think you are doing really well too.
:-)And you have made lots of progress :-)
> T3 was more of a "Well, I wanted sex therapy anyway. Now seems a good time to do it, since I may lose my therapist and it's probably best to have a professional already assigned to me if I do." Not the noblest of motives.Thats okay though. It could still work out okay.
> Still, perhaps I'm looking for those therapists to be telling me how well I'm doing. Not how poorly I'm choosing my coping strategies.Acceptance and change... Balancing acceptance and validation of the way things are with change and the prospects of future improvement. Too much focus on the former and sometimes people don't think there is any hope that things will get better, too much focus on the latter can seem invalidating of your current state.
I guess they are trying to give you hope for future improvement :-)
> I think I'm presenting too well. :(
Maybe... You could say something about how you have improved a great deal and you are fairly happy with the way you are coping currently?
I think... You are doing really well
But...
There is always room for improvement
(Life is just like that)
Posted by alexandra_k on October 22, 2005, at 14:03:18
In reply to Re: Actually » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on October 22, 2005, at 14:01:58
On the upside...
Sounds like T3 really believes they can help you.
And sounds like T3 thinks you are capable of doing even better with your coping.You might be thinking 'if only they knew me better...'
But maybe... There is more hope than you think...
Posted by alexandra_k on October 22, 2005, at 14:03:37
In reply to Re: Actually » alexandra_k, posted by alexandra_k on October 22, 2005, at 14:03:18
Posted by terrics on October 22, 2005, at 18:50:13
In reply to DBT distress tolerance and other skills, posted by gardenergirl on October 21, 2005, at 23:23:34
DBT is the hardest thing I have ever done. Almost all the 'therapy' falls upon oneself. The group teaches the skills. The T. reinforces and checks what skills you have used that week. She/he does some routine therapy. The Ts have unbelievable boundaries. You have to be almost dead for a T. to return a phone call. They will return your call if it involves something in therapy that is causing a problem or if you think you are going to harm yourself. Even then it somes takes hrs. for them to call back.
I once called her because I had a very strong S. urge. I got a covering and she committed me involuntarily because she got scared and did not know me. Once I called T. because I was very distraught over one of the worse things that happened to me. She did not return the call. That time I cut my wrist very badly so I took a chunk of ice to slow the bleeding and went to the E.R. (Stitches and commited again). And for your info. I have called her about 9 times in 2 yrs. I do not think that is excessive. Do you?
However the results of learning the discipline skills taught in DBT are paying off. (especially the interpersonal skills). It was shocking to me to find out how poor my skills with other people were. However I do not think this is something we could do here. It would not be such a good idea, and if one of us does S. We would be one board of guilty and depressed people. Demolished. Of course this is just my opinion. Btw, I do get furious with my T. and let her have it. She can take it. terrics
Posted by Dinah on October 23, 2005, at 22:04:10
In reply to Re: Actually » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on October 22, 2005, at 14:01:58
:)
I know.
I think this may not be the time for improvements tho. I think I need all my capital for maintenance.
Still, no real way of telling her that. I think I'll just stick to sex. She seems to be trying so hard to stick to short term focussed stuff anyway. No need to open any cans of worms.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 24, 2005, at 16:11:37
In reply to Re: Actually » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on October 23, 2005, at 22:04:10
> I think this may not be the time for improvements tho. I think I need all my capital for maintenance.
Hmm... But sometimes it can feel fairly depressing to think that all there is to do is to 'cope' or 'get by' without prospects for genuine improvement. I would imagine that... She is trying to give you some hope of that. Some hope for genuine improvement.
Is it that...
You want to be in therapy long term and thus the prospects of 'getting better' seem to imply termination and so... You resist the idea that you might be able to improve?
I get that sometimes... Yup.
> Still, no real way of telling her that. I think I'll just stick to sex. She seems to be trying so hard to stick to short term focussed stuff anyway. No need to open any cans of worms.Yeah... I guess.
Posted by Dinah on October 24, 2005, at 17:52:42
In reply to Re: Actually » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on October 24, 2005, at 16:11:37
No, that's not it. I actually consider that I improve slowly all the time for years with therapy. I am not scared of that prospect.
I'm just tired, Alexandra.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 24, 2005, at 20:40:25
In reply to Re: Actually, posted by Dinah on October 24, 2005, at 17:52:42
> I'm just tired, Alexandra.me too.
but... thats another story
This is the end of the thread.
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