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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by fairywings on September 3, 2005, at 21:16:15
In reply to Re: One of those therapy moments...kinda long » fallsfall, posted by gardenergirl on September 3, 2005, at 21:08:35
You're really good at doing therapy gg, you're so honest, open, and sincere. You have a good T, and I appreciate hearing that you have your struggles right along with the rest of us and aren't afraid to admit them. You're such a wonderful person, and will be the best T.
fw
Posted by gardenergirl on September 3, 2005, at 23:03:06
In reply to Re: One of those therapy moments...kinda long, posted by fairywings on September 3, 2005, at 21:16:15
Awww, something else I want to hug tight.
Thanks, sweetie.
gg
Posted by fairywings on September 4, 2005, at 12:45:29
In reply to Re: One of those therapy moments...kinda long » fairywings, posted by gardenergirl on September 3, 2005, at 23:03:06
Posted by alexandra_k on September 4, 2005, at 16:55:14
In reply to One of those therapy moments...kinda long, posted by gardenergirl on September 3, 2005, at 10:28:00
I love those therapy moments too :-)
And sometimes you get them in life in general. Things just seem to click into place.
I love those too :-)
Posted by daisym on September 4, 2005, at 19:23:40
In reply to One of those therapy moments...kinda long, posted by gardenergirl on September 3, 2005, at 10:28:00
Thank you for sharing your special moment, GG. It is nice to hear about those things when they seem so few and far between for me right now.
I think you are doing incredible work and your therapist just sounds amazing. I'm so glad you get to work with him. I hope you can wrap up that warm fuzzy feeling and tuck it away. We should have a Babble vault for those moments. :)
Hugs from me,
Daisy
Posted by Dinah on September 4, 2005, at 19:25:30
In reply to One of those therapy moments...kinda long, posted by gardenergirl on September 3, 2005, at 10:28:00
What a wonderful moment. Therapeutic honesty. I'm glad you shared it.
Posted by 64bowtie on September 5, 2005, at 14:48:54
In reply to One of those therapy moments...kinda long, posted by gardenergirl on September 3, 2005, at 10:28:00
GG, Again, thanks for the honest clarity...
> And I also was feeling less anxious and was not dwelling on a future loss of the relationship, which was nice.
><<< I wonder how any single session could be the end of the relationship... Yet thats the scenario that plays out for you in the background for most sessions, as you stated... Are you holding onto a 'family-of-origin' notion that everything happens 'right now', such that life is a series events, each followed by boredom...? What I am relating is known as the 'event-driven-life'... It is entrapping to children and suffocating to adults (that continue to hold on long after childhood)... I am certain you could write a thesis on how therapy is a process and not just a series of events, yet your rhetoric belys that you might still have doubts when it comes to therapy you hold precious; yours... I am only asking... And I am suggesting you try folding my thoughts in, to answer your outreach to us about your own internal longings... Whatever answers you discover, will always be yours! We all just like to help a little, to ease the process for you...
Rod
Posted by gardenergirl on September 5, 2005, at 20:46:41
In reply to Does session=event for you? » gardenergirl, posted by 64bowtie on September 5, 2005, at 14:48:54
>
> <<< I wonder how any single session could be the end of the relationship... Yet thats the scenario that plays out for you in the background for most sessions, as you stated...Rod, I'm not sure from where you are pulling your inferences, but maybe it's because I posted about a single session? I have every faith that eventual termination will be a process and will be planned. I don't go into each session worrying, even in the background, that this session might be my last.
I'm not familiar with the construct you are describing, and I'm afraid that I don't really uderstand much of your post. I can sense that you are wishing me well in my process, and for that I thank you.
gg
Posted by 64bowtie on September 6, 2005, at 3:00:06
In reply to Re: Does session=event for you? » 64bowtie, posted by gardenergirl on September 5, 2005, at 20:46:41
...out of your ending comment:
> And I also was feeling less anxious and was not dwelling on a future loss of the relationship, which was nice.
><<< ...which I took to mean that, "It was nice for a change not to be anxious and not to be dwelling on a future loss of the relationship"... But guess that's not what it sounds like when you say:
> I don't go into each session worrying, even in the background, that this session might be my last.
><<< Like I said, I was only asking... From my experience, there is a common thread here... If you are certain that your childhood was not 'event driven', and that you have no blind spot for any such hanging over from that childhood, then lets go on...
Rod
Posted by terrics on September 6, 2005, at 7:29:43
In reply to One of those therapy moments...kinda long, posted by gardenergirl on September 3, 2005, at 10:28:00
Hi gg, Your experience seems so 'real',like at that moment you connected with your T. Do think this connection will strenghten your relationship and your ability to talk freely with him? P.S. Are you still persuing your career? terrics
Posted by JenStar on September 6, 2005, at 11:52:11
In reply to One of those therapy moments...kinda long, posted by gardenergirl on September 3, 2005, at 10:28:00
hi gg,
thanks for sharing such a difficult and important moment in therapy. :)I'm still a bit confused by his response. Did he admit he WAS bored, and say that it was your fault for not talking about interesting-enough things?
Or did he imply that you and he were subconsciously playing the roles of you-as-a-child and the father figure, and he was imititating the father figure and being inaccessible for comfort?
In any case, I'm glad he gave you a response that was not fake, and I'm glad you got a warm feeling about it.
I also think it shows that you can and should trust your instincts about other people and their reactions. You sensed his attention was wandering; he confirmed it. That means that your observational skills are good -- trust them! :)
JenStar
Posted by gardenergirl on September 8, 2005, at 22:51:10
In reply to Re: One of those therapy moments...kinda long » gardenergirl, posted by alexandra_k on September 4, 2005, at 16:55:14
> I love those therapy moments too :-)
>
> And sometimes you get them in life in general. Things just seem to click into place.
>
> I love those too :-)Yeah, real life ones are pretty awesome, too.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on September 8, 2005, at 22:54:04
In reply to Re: One of those therapy moments...kinda long » gardenergirl, posted by daisym on September 4, 2005, at 19:23:40
> Thank you for sharing your special moment, GG. It is nice to hear about those things when they seem so few and far between for me right now.
I'm sorry you've been missing them. Hopefully there is a whole mass of them just around the corner.
>
> I think you are doing incredible work and your therapist just sounds amazing. I'm so glad you get to work with him. I hope you can wrap up that warm fuzzy feeling and tuck it away. We should have a Babble vault for those moments. :)Thanks, I think he's pretty great, too.
> Hugs from me,
And back to you. :)
gg
> Daisy
Posted by gardenergirl on September 8, 2005, at 22:55:08
In reply to Re: One of those therapy moments...kinda long » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on September 4, 2005, at 19:25:30
Thanks.
I like how you call it therapeutic honesty. That's pretty much how I characterized it when we talked about this past session. :)
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on September 8, 2005, at 23:04:23
In reply to I guess I got way toooo much information » gardenergirl, posted by 64bowtie on September 6, 2005, at 3:00:06
> ...out of your ending comment:
> > And I also was feeling less anxious and was not dwelling on a future loss of the relationship, which was nice.
> >
>
> <<< ...which I took to mean that, "It was nice for a change not to be anxious and not to be dwelling on a future loss of the relationship"...That's true, but I'm thinking ahead in the process, and when I do think about eventual termination, I feel sad.
>
> <<< Like I said, I was only asking... From my experience, there is a common thread here... If you are certain that your childhood was not 'event driven', and that you have no blind spot for any such hanging over from that childhood, then lets go on...Well, not knowing the construct, I really have no way of being certain if what you are talking about matches my experience.
Could you explain further or perhaps provide examples?
gg
>
> Rod
Posted by gardenergirl on September 8, 2005, at 23:13:27
In reply to Re: One of those therapy moments...kinda long » gardenergirl, posted by terrics on September 6, 2005, at 7:29:43
> Hi gg, Your experience seems so 'real',like at that moment you connected with your T. Do think this connection will strenghten your relationship and your ability to talk freely with him?
Hi terrics. Yes, it did feel very real, very honest, and very much like mutual respect. I do think it helps, because I know that it's okay to ask him something that might look like I am upset with him about something.
Although, in my session this week, I was just at such a loss for what to talk about. This is very very weird for me. Usually I can eventually get started with something. I could just feel myself sit there, not knowing what to say and feeling kind of flat and disconnected.
I finally laughed and asked him what he wanted to talk about. For once he actually answered. I had described how I was feeling a twinge of sadness "aroudn the edges", but the edges of WHAT, I didn't know. He suggested that perahps there was something "right here" (meaning in the room between us) to talk about. And after more spinning around talking about a jumble of things that didn't really make sense to me, I finally came out with telling him how I long to be held physically by someone who I feel so comfortable with emotionally. Namely, someone like him.
I laughed, though, because I had my gym shoes on that day, which I never wear. I called them my "runaway shoes" since I must have "known" I was going to approach a "runaway" topic. :)
So at any rate, he seemed to understand what I was saying, and I was so surprised this came out of my mouth. So I must have at least felt like it was okay to say this to him, and I could trust that I'd get an honest answer. Of course it was nearly the end of the session, so I didn't get much of a response other than him seeming to understand.
P.S. Are you still persuing your career?
Yep! Hopefully I'm entering the home stretch! Thanks for asking.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on September 8, 2005, at 23:22:48
In reply to Re: One of those therapy moments...kinda long » gardenergirl, posted by JenStar on September 6, 2005, at 11:52:11
> hi gg,
> thanks for sharing such a difficult and important moment in therapy. :)Thanks.
>
> I'm still a bit confused by his response. Did he admit he WAS bored, and say that it was your fault for not talking about interesting-enough things?No, that's not what he was saying. He admitted his attention had just wandered, and that wandering caught his attention at the same time I commented on it. I think what he meant by saying "if boredom is present than the more interesting stuff is being repressed" was that it's perhaps kind of diagnostic for a therapist to realize they might be feeling bored. They can ask themselves what's going on or NOT going on that they are not their usual attentive self. And if something's repressed, I don't think he views that as the client's "fault". I think he views it as a defense mechanism--something that prevents the "good stuff"...meaning the meatier,more important stuff (?) from being expressed. I suppose in my update post to terrics, I was repressing the longing for being held, and that's why I was just sort of spinning around topics and not really feeling like anything was taking hold. I was unconsciously avoiding what was the most anxiety-provoking...risking telling him my longings and perhaps feeling rejected.
>
> Or did he imply that you and he were subconsciously playing the roles of you-as-a-child and the father figure, and he was imititating the father figure and being inaccessible for comfort?Yes, I think that's what he meant, although he was not consciously playing that role. We just somehow fell into it. I have to admit, I have a hard time explaining and even understanding exactly HOW this can happen. I suppose it comes from my telling him about stuff that showed him my deep fear of rejection and the neglectful responses (or non-responses) I would get from my parents. So for whatever reason, maybe because we had been talking about how I seem to ask for or wish for guidance and reassurance a lot, what usually happened in childhood between me and my parents happened in the room. I suppose you could say I projected enough onto him to lead him to act the same way. And then his response and our relationship allowed me to experience that differently, and better than it was in childhood. A healing moment. :)
???? shrugs At least I think that's it.
>
>
> I also think it shows that you can and should trust your instincts about other people and their reactions. You sensed his attention was wandering; he confirmed it. That means that your observational skills are good -- trust them! :)Thanks! I didn't think of that. :)
gg
>
Posted by fairywings on September 9, 2005, at 8:19:53
In reply to projection and boredom » JenStar, posted by gardenergirl on September 8, 2005, at 23:22:48
> > I'm still a bit confused by his response. Did he admit he WAS bored, and say that it was your fault for not talking about interesting-enough things?
>
> No, that's not what he was saying. He admitted his attention had just wandered, . I think what he meant by saying "if boredom is present than the more interesting stuff is being repressed" was that it's perhaps kind of diagnostic for a therapist to realize they might be feeling bored. They can ask themselves what's going on or NOT going on that they are not their usual attentive self. And if something's repressed, I don't think he views that as the client's "fault".I was confused by this too. That's really interesting. I wonder if all T's would think if they were bored the client's repressing feelings? Or if some would think that if they're bored, "gee, this person sure is boring!" LOL Seemed like my last T couldn't wait to get to the end of 40 minutes! This one actually makes me feel like what I have to say is important, and goes over, which is his normal style.
So, did you take a risk and tell him your longings and that you were feeling rejected? That would sure feel like a leap to me! Whew! I can see how, if you have a stable, even tempered, normal therapist, who is logical and rational, and always "there for you", that you can try to make them into the parent you never had and always wished you had. That's seems like a pretty normal thing to do unconsciously, and before you know it, it could be consuming for at least one person.
So did you and your T get that worked out gg? Is he back to being T, and you're back to being comfortable with him in the T role, and not the father/parent role? I sure would like a mom/dad, but I'm too old for that! ; )
fw
Posted by daisym on September 9, 2005, at 10:43:02
In reply to Update...next session was weird » terrics, posted by gardenergirl on September 8, 2005, at 23:13:27
Sometimes when I feel like I don't know what to talk about it is because I feel like we "ended" something. (Of course I avoid lots of things on purpose too.) Especially when we've had a really good session the time before. Maybe unconsciously you didn't want to "break the spell?" I'm never sure if I'm doing that myself.
I think it is good that you expressed your longing in such an honest way. And I'm struck again by how powerful the human need for touch is and how many of us begin to long for it from those we feel close to. Even if rationally we really don't want it. Sort of like premature infants. Their skin is so thin that touch can actually be painful but they thrive on being held and hearing a human heart beat. We are such interesting bundles of contradictions, aren't we?
I'm guessing that this is one of those times you are glad (very glad?) that you've increased your sessions to twice a week so you don't have to wait so long to revisit such an important topic. Weekends tend to chew up the emotional intensity but I hope you can hold on to some of the feelings you had at the end because I imagine it was hard to say and since you surprised yourself, very important.
I admit that I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way! Maybe we need a new club?
Thanks for sharing. (((GG)))
Posted by Annierose on September 9, 2005, at 15:33:48
In reply to Update...next session was weird » terrics, posted by gardenergirl on September 8, 2005, at 23:13:27
Hi GG -
Give yourself double pats on the back. That was hard to say, but doesn't it feel so good to have said it, and be warmly received?
This is exactly what I was getting at a few weeks back in a post to you. While writing to you, I remember this thought popped into my head: that it's hard to be so vulnerable in therapy, cry (the type when you can hardly breathe) and not be comforted by a hug, that I feel so alone. After writing this to you, I did bring up this conversation in therapy, in a round about way, as only I can do when I'm trying to avoid what I really want to say. She replied, "But you are not alone. I'm here with you." She went on that although she cannot hug me, she understands how those boundaries seemingly duplicate the coldness from my mother. But she was there, understood why I would want a hug, and said a bunch of other suff that I completely forget at the moment.
Hopefully your T will help bring this conversation up at your next session. It will be one of those hard sessions, but so productive emotionally.
p.s. sorry for rambling, lots of stuff going on around me at the moment
Posted by fairywings on September 9, 2005, at 20:13:04
In reply to Re: Update...next session was weird » gardenergirl, posted by Annierose on September 9, 2005, at 15:33:48
>it's hard to be so vulnerable in therapy, cry (the type when you can hardly breathe) and not be comforted by a hug, that I feel so alone.
Oh gosh annie, i think if i ever cry in therapy, let alone cry like this, i will die! i have so much trouble with crying to begin with, i'm sure you're not comfortable with it either, and i'm sure crying to the point where u can barely breathe and you're feeling so vulnerable, would make you feel so exposed. if i ever cry like that my T will have to move back because he will be in my personal space where he sits right now! do i tell him this now?
i haven't cried much at all in about 2 years, so the floodgates might be holding something back, who knows!
fw
Posted by terrics on September 11, 2005, at 22:53:07
In reply to Update...next session was weird » terrics, posted by gardenergirl on September 8, 2005, at 23:13:27
Hi again gg, I'm glad you are almost done with school. p.s I think that I like your T. terrics
Posted by gardenergirl on September 16, 2005, at 7:38:12
In reply to Re: projection and boredom, posted by fairywings on September 9, 2005, at 8:19:53
Hmmm, sometimes I let things percolate too long before returning to a thread. Sorry for delay in response. Here's my burned coffee offering... :)
> Or if some would think that if they're bored, "gee, this person sure is boring!" LOL
I would imagine that there are cases when the person is just sort of boring. But then, I think you could make a case that if they bore the T, then either they are not talking about something helpful to the therapy process, or maybe it's not a good match between client's problem and T's interest/experience?
>This one actually makes me feel like what I have to say is important, and goes over, which is his normal style.
That's great that you feel he is present, attentive, and interested. Makes a big difference, eh?
>
> So, did you take a risk and tell him your longings and that you were feeling rejected? That would sure feel like a leap to me!Not really, not at this session. We just talked about what happened, and how it fit with the experiences I had been talking about and that are painful for me. Although in the next session, or maybe there was one between, I don't know, I had a really awful time talking about anything. I just stumbled around, stopped a lot and just looked at him, and finally asked him what he wanted to talk about. :)
He suggested that maybe there was something "in the room between us" that I was avoiding. So I stumbled around that for another 10 or 20 minutes, all the time thinking, "run away! Run away!" I finally got out at the end that I was longing to be held. He was okay with that.
So then I bailed on my next session (easy to do since it doesn't cost me anything.) Very obvious that I was avoiding him. My session later in the week was all about my dream (thread lower down) and how I do long to be held, and maybe by him. Eek! It was really okay, though. No signs of freaking on his part. And when I said, "You know, I haven't gone so far as to try to imagine what it would be like if you hugged me." He said, "I think you just did." Cracks me up when he says stuff like, that.
> So did you and your T get that worked out gg? Is he back to being T, and you're back to being comfortable with him in the T role, and not the father/parent role? I sure would like a mom/dad, but I'm too old for that! ; )
I think that right now I still am projecting the good parent role onto him, and I don't think that's all that bad. It's what needs to happen right now for my process. In some ways, it leads to the corrective emotional experience, but in other ways, as has already happened, it becomes apparent that he is not the parent, and he's not even the "good parent" all the time, so when that shows up, it leads to processing the old hurts and learning in my heart that it didn't have to be that way, but it WAS that way, and that hurts. (I get hung up trying to 'splain this part, but I hope I'm making sense). I guess that if the junk from the past plays out again in the present (and believe me it does...that's a big part of neurosis), then it's important to be able to explore that in a safe place in order to begin to feel freed up from it and make different choices in real life. Or something like that. Or at least to enter into interactions with others with my eyes a bit more open and clear, and not hazed with the mists of past failings of my parents and my subsequent transference relationships. sigh
How's that for burnt coffee?
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on September 16, 2005, at 7:49:20
In reply to Re: projection and boredom..update » fairywings, posted by gardenergirl on September 16, 2005, at 7:38:12
Posted by gardenergirl on September 16, 2005, at 7:59:07
In reply to Re: Update...next session was weird » gardenergirl, posted by daisym on September 9, 2005, at 10:43:02
> Sometimes when I feel like I don't know what to talk about it is because I feel like we "ended" something. (Of course I avoid lots of things on purpose too.) Especially when we've had a really good session the time before. Maybe unconsciously you didn't want to "break the spell?" I'm never sure if I'm doing that myself.
You know, that is how it felt. It felt like something was ended, or done, and then I had to fish around to see what else was out there.
>
> I think it is good that you expressed your longing in such an honest way. And I'm struck again by how powerful the human need for touch is and how many of us begin to long for it from those we feel close to. Even if rationally we really don't want it.It is fascinating, isn't it? It's a basic human need, IMO, that starts from infancy. And if you get too much not satisfactory or even painful or dangerous touch, it sets up this huge conflict. The need never goes away, but the longing for it is so confusing and scary, since the experience of it was never quite what you are longing for. Very confusing. And when this carries over into adulthood, and you become aware of it consciously, holy cow! It becomes way more complex from the basic level of a human need.
>Sort of like premature infants. Their skin is so thin that touch can actually be painful but they thrive on being held and hearing a human heart beat. We are such interesting bundles of contradictions, aren't we?
Good analogy.
>
> I'm guessing that this is one of those times you are glad (very glad?) that you've increased your sessions to twice a week so you don't have to wait so long to revisit such an important topic.Yes, but...:) I bailed on Monday. (hangs head in shame) But then bailing certainly gave me a place to start talking on Wednesday. Oh shoot. Interesting observation there. I struggled with what to talk about...the last time. Nothing really "took hold" until the end, and that's a horribly uncomfortable feeling for me...grasping at ghosts of ideas...So skipping Monday sure did make sure I had a topic, eh?
>Weekends tend to chew up the emotional intensity but I hope you can hold on to some of the feelings you had at the end because I imagine it was hard to say and since you surprised yourself, very important.
Yes, I do think this was very important, and that I'm finally getting into exploring the transference instead of dancing around it. (And now I'm quite certain that a dear friend would at least be thinking if not saying out loud, in her best "Rain Man" voice..."I'm an excellent dancer." ;)
>
> I admit that I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way! Maybe we need a new club?Sounds good...what should we call it? Longings Anonymous? Hmm, LA? Nah, that has too much meaning right now. Hmmmm
gg
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