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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by willyee on August 29, 2005, at 18:12:04
In reply to Why does EVERYONE think a PILL solves all?????????, posted by DoYouKnowHim? on August 29, 2005, at 4:56:06
I think your right in some degree,a pill wont solve all problems.What people fail to see is going out,being out going,being more social,being able to enjoy things more,this is a GOAL TO REACH.
This is our own thoughts and feelings were trying to fight,and your not gonna beat your brain alone,not with all the will power,or therapy.
Truth is we just DONT KNOW what is going on,we really dont.And in a case like that all we can do each one of us is continue to search for something to make us feel normal,to look outside on a sunny day and see a sunny day,depression is REAL and now im nummb i dont see the same sunny day as *normal* people.
Just imagine if one pyhsical compenent of the brain is array,it could be that simple to cause us misery,again we just dont know.
One thing i am disgusted with are the options of drugs we have,were moving at a pace thats absurd,and there are just hardly any meds out that can truly help.We here are suffering cause were trying to make due with crap that we have available to us.
I dont want a pill to do anything else but make me feel like im NOT on a pill,i know what im going through is very REAL,and going out and enjoying life more is not an option,its a GOAL.
Posted by Emme on August 29, 2005, at 18:12:04
In reply to Why does EVERYONE think a PILL solves all?????????, posted by DoYouKnowHim? on August 29, 2005, at 4:56:06
Didn't we already do this topic last week?
Posted by SLS on August 29, 2005, at 18:12:04
In reply to Why does EVERYONE think a PILL solves all?????????, posted by DoYouKnowHim? on August 29, 2005, at 4:56:06
You never posted a reaction to one of my previous posts addressed to you:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20050821/msgs/544682.html
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on August 29, 2005, at 18:12:04
In reply to Re: Why does EVERYONE think a PILL solves all????????? » DoYouKnowHim?, posted by SLS on August 29, 2005, at 7:36:01
If you come to a board that is designed to specifically discuss the effects of certain medications, then obviously all that people are going to talk about it medications.
That does not mean that drugs are all we think about, it means that we are using the page for which it is designed.
Linkadge
Posted by ixus on August 29, 2005, at 18:12:04
In reply to Why does EVERYONE think a PILL solves all?????????, posted by DoYouKnowHim? on August 29, 2005, at 4:56:06
Why not to think like that? Let's assume, someone has a temporary mental crisis. In order to THINK better (more positive) he is prescribed a medicine, this is the way the loop is staring. Better mood->better thinking->better mood->problem solved->medication stopped.
The case above was just very simple, the problem with most of us are more complicated. Some of us will find out what is wrong within weeks, others within years, some won't ever.
Why you mentioned only behavioral therapies? There are many reason of mental problems (allergy for example).
/ixus
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on August 29, 2005, at 18:12:04
In reply to Re: Why does EVERYONE think a PILL solves all????????? » DoYouKnowHim?, posted by ixus on August 29, 2005, at 8:55:05
Posted by marleenm on August 29, 2005, at 18:12:04
In reply to Didn't we JUST have this conversation? (nm), posted by Emily Elizabeth on August 29, 2005, at 9:17:32
I don't think you can group everyone in to one generalization. Some people do well on meds alone and some people do well with meds and therapy, and even some people do well with just therapy. We are all different, our bodies make ups are different so I wouldn't be able to lump everyone in to one group and neither would you. For me, my meds help aid in a chemical deficiancy in my brain. I went to alot of therapy for years and now I am currently just taking meds and seeing a therapist once a month. And even though I am new, I think that this thread or site is suppose to be the discussion of medication and not the lack of.
Posted by Glydin on August 29, 2005, at 18:12:04
In reply to Didn't we JUST have this conversation? (nm), posted by Emily Elizabeth on August 29, 2005, at 9:17:32
Yep. I made that point in my post above.
This is starting to feel like an incendiary posting to me but it is impossible to know the intent of another and that is merely my feelings on this. I did think the intent of the board was support and education. I'm usure where this one would fall when measured by those to parameters.
For me, this has less to do with agreeing or disagreeing with opinions as it does.... I'm just not understanding the true purpose of the post and the poster doesn't seem to be forthcoming on either times this has been brought up.
I realize validation isn't something we are to ask for here, but it would be nice to know.
Posted by DoYouKnowHim? on August 29, 2005, at 18:12:04
In reply to Re: Didn't we JUST have this conversation?, posted by Glydin on August 29, 2005, at 10:26:53
I have been, am, and always will be a proponent for medications. I have been taking them for seven years and will probably continue doing so for the rest of my life.
My only point was that you have to work on your mind or attitude, also, along with the meds. It's a two-part process. Many on this board (and not everyone, I retract that) seem to be solely dependant on a med changing everything. I agree that meds are the No. 1 step. But after that, you've got to work on your mind, your perception of things.
Maybe many people do, but they just don't write about it on here. They just talk about the meds, which makes sense because this is a med board. I don't know. It just seems so many are waiting for only the "magic pill" and talk about nothing else.
If I have offended anyone, I apologize. To tell the truth, I want everyone on this board to feel better. Every single person.
Michael
Posted by Glydin on August 29, 2005, at 18:12:05
In reply to Re: I am PRO-meds, posted by DoYouKnowHim? on August 29, 2005, at 10:35:53
> My only point was that you have to work on your mind or attitude, also, along with the meds. It's a two-part process.~~~Have you considered meds ARE doing just that for some folks? That is the goal that I go for with utilizing chemical enhancement.
I don't discredit changes must be made to find wellness - that appears to me to be a given - but I don't agree that there ALWAYS for EVERY MIND has to be double, triple, etc.... outside interventions. This comes from a history of being in therapy of various types for quite a while. We are all different and I don't care for generalizations that seem to be unyielding to the individual needs and requirements one to another.
I do appreciate you inputting to the thread.
Posted by DoYouKnowHim? on August 29, 2005, at 18:12:05
In reply to Re: I am PRO-meds, posted by Glydin on August 29, 2005, at 10:48:07
When I talk about working on your mind, I am not necessarily talking about going to see a therapist. It could be self-therapy. I, like a lot of you, have gone to therapists which made me feel worse.
All of this is a simple point: I think in order to have the best success, you first and foremost find the right meds. That's 75-percent of it. Then, once you find something that helps, you have to sustain or build on that with working on your thoughts and/or changing your attitude.
It's like this, to give a simple example: When I found something that helped me, my mind would repeatedly say "This med is working, but when it will stop working?" or "This med surely can't be helping me like this because none of the past meds helped." Those were thoughts of defeat for me.
I should've been saying "Yee haw, I finally found something that helps. It is possible!" and build momentum from there.
I just think this is the path for people who suffer with mild forms of depression and anxiety. For others with bipolar and schiz, all of these posts do not apply to you. I have no way of relating to you.
One last thing: For all of those who are posting on this topic, I appreciate each and every one of you for the feedback. I respect your opinion and look forward to hearing more of your insight. Nothing hurts my feelings. That's what this board is for, to voice your opinion. Michael
Posted by ed_uk on August 29, 2005, at 18:12:05
In reply to Re: I am PRO-meds, posted by DoYouKnowHim? on August 29, 2005, at 10:35:53
Hi Michael,
>My only point was that you have to work on your mind or attitude, also, along with the meds.
For some people, meds are enough, others need a lot of therapy to get well. In some cases, medication can change one's thoughts, attitudes and perception of the world. It all depends on the individual, their circumstances and what type of problem is being treated.
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by mellymel_d on August 29, 2005, at 18:12:05
In reply to Why does EVERYONE think a PILL solves all?????????, posted by DoYouKnowHim? on August 29, 2005, at 4:56:06
> Look, don't get me wrong, I am most grateful for meds as Seroquel has changed my life for the better.
>
> The thing I don't get, however, is so many people in here are counting 100-percent on a pill to change their life. It's just not going to happen, with just the meds.
>
> The meds are to put you in a state of mind where you can work on your thought process. It's a two-part process, 1. meds and 2. therapy. You just don't take meds and wake up one day and everything is hunky dory.
>
> My heart goes out to everyone. I've been there and may return there one day. However, I am now more attentive to my thought process. Scary, depressing, and panic thoughts go through my mind all the time, even now. But I have been trained to capture those thoughts and then intentionally think about something else.
>
> If I can do it, anyone can.I've done self therapy, meditation, therapy, and much much more. I so wish I didn't need a pill. It makes me feel weak. Right now I'm going through a very rough time and trying my hardest to think positive. I'm also going through pill changes. It really sucks to be around people that think you should be able to fix this yourself. I have that problem already with a spouse that doesn't understand anxiety/depression. I wasn't always like this and can't for the life of me figure out what happened along the way. I don't try to rely on the pills but have been told many times they would help me. Along with the pills I try MANY self help things and have remained unsuccessful.
I thought we were all here to support each other. I know thats what I come here for- not to hear why do people think a pill is the answer. I would much rather hear how a pill helped somebody get strong enough to get help theirselves.
Posted by marleenm on August 29, 2005, at 18:12:05
In reply to Re: I am PRO-meds, posted by Glydin on August 29, 2005, at 10:48:07
The nice thing about this site is that everyone is allowed to discuss their view, their point, and what works for them. Even though it may not always follow with what some believe, I do believe that it is an open forum. With this open forum we will have times where we disagree or agree. The even nicer thing is that we are all adults and in being so should be able to handle what others have to say even though it may not be what we wanted to hear. I wish everyone well.
>
> > My only point was that you have to work on your mind or attitude, also, along with the meds. It's a two-part process.
>
> ~~~Have you considered meds ARE doing just that for some folks? That is the goal that I go for with utilizing chemical enhancement.
>
> I don't discredit changes must be made to find wellness - that appears to me to be a given - but I don't agree that there ALWAYS for EVERY MIND has to be double, triple, etc.... outside interventions. This comes from a history of being in therapy of various types for quite a while. We are all different and I don't care for generalizations that seem to be unyielding to the individual needs and requirements one to another.
>
> I do appreciate you inputting to the thread.
Posted by marleenm on August 29, 2005, at 18:12:05
In reply to I WOULD LOVE A SOLUTION WITHOUT PILLS, posted by mellymel_d on August 29, 2005, at 12:12:36
When I first started taking antidepressents I was seeing a psychiatrist. I was probably seeing her three times a week for over five years. What made the therapy work for me was that I was taking Prozac. The prozac helped me thing with a clear mind. She didn't prescribe it right away, she waited until she got the whole picture of me and my illness. I saw her for 10 yrs before I moved to Germany where I started seeing someone else. Currently I see a therapist a couple times a month. I had to go to therapy, I had alot of things I needed to work on. Taking my antidepressent helped me work on issues. This is what has worked for me. It may not work for others. All I can ever share is what has helped me and what I know. I have been on Prozac and Lithium now for 14 yrs and I hate having to take a pill to help me feel better. What I hate even worse is the way I felt before I took it. Several times I took myself off my meds thinking it would be better or I would be better. Every one of those occasions I was wrong. My meds were and are very important to my mental health.
> > Look, don't get me wrong, I am most grateful for meds as Seroquel has changed my life for the better.
> >
> > The thing I don't get, however, is so many people in here are counting 100-percent on a pill to change their life. It's just not going to happen, with just the meds.
> >
> > The meds are to put you in a state of mind where you can work on your thought process. It's a two-part process, 1. meds and 2. therapy. You just don't take meds and wake up one day and everything is hunky dory.
> >
> > My heart goes out to everyone. I've been there and may return there one day. However, I am now more attentive to my thought process. Scary, depressing, and panic thoughts go through my mind all the time, even now. But I have been trained to capture those thoughts and then intentionally think about something else.
> >
> > If I can do it, anyone can.
>
> I've done self therapy, meditation, therapy, and much much more. I so wish I didn't need a pill. It makes me feel weak. Right now I'm going through a very rough time and trying my hardest to think positive. I'm also going through pill changes. It really sucks to be around people that think you should be able to fix this yourself. I have that problem already with a spouse that doesn't understand anxiety/depression. I wasn't always like this and can't for the life of me figure out what happened along the way. I don't try to rely on the pills but have been told many times they would help me. Along with the pills I try MANY self help things and have remained unsuccessful.
>
> I thought we were all here to support each other. I know thats what I come here for- not to hear why do people think a pill is the answer. I would much rather hear how a pill helped somebody get strong enough to get help theirselves.
Posted by linkadge on August 29, 2005, at 18:12:05
In reply to Re: Some THERAPY can be negative, posted by DoYouKnowHim? on August 29, 2005, at 11:25:53
The very act of being here, and looking for a cure, is theraputic. Its hopefull to think that things can improve by seeking help.
Linkadge
Posted by Glydin on August 29, 2005, at 18:12:05
In reply to Re: I WOULD LOVE A SOLUTION WITHOUT PILLS, posted by marleenm on August 29, 2005, at 14:05:27
I do understand what you are saying and in theory, it's a good plan. The problem is, mental disorders are illnesses that involve distorted thought processes. In other words, the illness screams at us louder than we are able to scream back of our own volition. In my own case, I was not able to positive my way out nor could i "just not think that way..."
In my experience, those that suffer emotionally are some of the strongest - in terms of mental toughness - folks I know BECAUSE - actions and functions that "normal" folks take for granted, take five fold strength to accomplish.
This is the med board and by definition, I don't think people are discussing all the strides they take and make daily - sometimes moment to moment
- to aid their wellness and increase their quailty of life.
Posted by Declan on August 29, 2005, at 18:12:05
In reply to Re: I am PRO-meds, posted by DoYouKnowHim? on August 29, 2005, at 10:35:53
The drugs would have to be a whole lot better and more trouble free for anyone here to get their hopes up too much.
I think I mainly improve my attitude and whatnot by being more clear about what I want from/with people and finding ways of making it happen.
The act of seeking a cure is therapeutic but too long at this computer is bad for my spine.
Declan
Posted by DoYouKnowHim? on August 29, 2005, at 18:12:05
In reply to Re: I am PRO-meds, posted by Declan on August 29, 2005, at 16:01:05
Look, as this post goes along, my words are getting more and more twisted. I'm fine with that, though, because it has stimulated discussion on these issues.
If for some reason I have not made myself clear, let me say it again: I am all for meds. That's where the healing begins, no doubt about it. Meds are great, even though it takes trial and error to find the right one for you. Believe me, I know.
I know this is a med board, but it seems to me that sometimes people who post are relying 100-percent on a pill to change their lives immediately. And you know what? Maybe the pill does that for some people. However, to keep your live changed or to make it better, you have to make an effort in your thought process.
In seven years, and even when taking the great Seroquel, I have NEVER known any medicine to change my thought process. Now Seroquel calmed me down and made me relaxed, but it didn't change my thoughts. In fact, the first few weeks I took it, I was still having the same anxious and depressing thoughts WITHOUT the matching physical symptons. It took a concentrated effort on my part to convince my heart and soul that I was feeling better, which in turn made me think better.
I think of the analogy of a big fish tank. The gold fish were all fed on the left side of it. One day the scientists put a divider in the middle of the tank, yet still poured the food on the left side. Well, the fish kept bumping into the divider . Finally the divider was removed from the tank. The food was poured out on the left side. The kicker is that the fish starved. They never went over to the left side because they had been conditioned to think that the divider was still there even though it wasn't.
In my seven years of depression and anxiety, I conditioned myself to think that depression and anxiety was just around the corner for me every time I started to feel better for short periods. It was a great lie I believed in. Finally when I found Seroquel, I had longer periods of stability, which gave me longer time to change my thinking.
I apologize if I got too deep. And thanks again to everyone for voicing their opinion.
Posted by Colleen D. on August 29, 2005, at 18:12:06
In reply to Re: FISH TANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, posted by DoYouKnowHim? on August 29, 2005, at 17:10:22
and then I discovered the DRUGS that are out there to help with my problems. I didn't know about the "chemical imbalance" thing and always thought that my behavior was just ODD. Thanks to Effexor and Klonopin, I have a life now and am no longer receiving therapy. Is my depression, OCD, GAD and SP totally in remission? No. But it's much, much better with the drugs. I am fortunate and I recognize that fact. Large generalizations tend to upset people so I understand why you have gotten the responses that you have here.
Everone's mileage DOES vary.
Colleen
Posted by marleenm on August 29, 2005, at 18:12:06
In reply to Re: FISH TANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, posted by DoYouKnowHim? on August 29, 2005, at 17:10:22
That was really profound. I really understood what you said when you said that you always felt depression and anxiety were just around the corner. That's how I feel. I wish we had better odds. Thank you for sharing, I really got alot out of what you said.
Posted by Emme on August 29, 2005, at 18:12:06
In reply to Re: FISH TANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, posted by DoYouKnowHim? on August 29, 2005, at 17:10:22
> In seven years, and even when taking the great Seroquel, I have NEVER known any medicine to change my thought process.
I have.
Generalizations or assumptions about what others need or should do are neither supportive nor educational for me. As others noted, this is a medication board and you don't have information about other measures people take to promote their well-being.
I think we all voiced our thoughts clearly and thoroughly in the above thread. I am wondering why a rerun has been started. It seems counterproductive to me at this point.
Posted by Racer on August 29, 2005, at 18:12:06
In reply to Why does EVERYONE think a PILL solves all?????????, posted by DoYouKnowHim? on August 29, 2005, at 4:56:06
>
>
> Scary, depressing, and panic thoughts go through my mind all the time, even now. But I have been trained to capture those thoughts and then intentionally think about something else.
>
> If I can do it, anyone can.I'm glad that works for you -- and it doesn't work for me. I already know that, and I know that I get much worse when I try to use techniques of that sort -- they feed directly into my anorexia, and I start restricting again, etc.
That said, I'm pretty sure I'm not atypical here: I see a therapist weekly -- with extra appointments if I need them -- and I take medications. I don't expect the meds to "fix" anything, but the meds do make it possible for me to function. I don't mean that they make it possible for me to be happy, to be calm, to sleep normally -- I mean they make it possible for me to get out of bed in the morning, to put on clothing, to walk through the day without pulling a quilt over my head and shaking and crying on the sofa. They don't make me bright and sunny, they make it possible for me to see a reason to continue living another day, another week, another thirty years.
You've posted this sort of thing before -- and no doubt will post something similar again -- and I believe that this is a subject very close to your heart. I also believe that this sort of post could be very triggering for a lot of people in their most vulnerable state. Maybe it would be better to offer this sort of opinion in response to individual posts where people are asking for suggestions, rather than generalizing and painting us all with the same brush.
Especially since that brush you're using doesn't fit many of us.
Posted by Gabbix2 on August 31, 2005, at 16:20:24
In reply to Why does EVERYONE think a PILL solves all?????????, posted by DoYouKnowHim? on August 29, 2005, at 4:56:06
>Just a hunch but could it be that it's because you posted on a board that is soley about medication? I mean it's not a big leap
If you posted on a board about dog grooming would you be wondering why ALL ANYONE cares about is GROOMING DOGS?
Posted by terrics on August 31, 2005, at 20:54:00
In reply to Re: Some THERAPY can be negative, posted by DoYouKnowHim? on August 29, 2005, at 11:25:53
Hi, I agree 100%. Initially I was diagnosed
with a borderline personality but since then my psychiatrist saw a manic episode. I had been seeing her for a yr. and I had always been depressed. She now says I am bipolar and is treating me for it. I take one mood stabilizer and one anti-depressant. Pdoc says anti-depressants only take the edge off the depression in bipolars so I am still somewhat depressed. However, I go to dbt therapy and always feel awful afterwards. Perhaps therapy is not the best thing for some of us. terrics (helen)
This is the end of the thread.
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