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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gardenergirl on August 24, 2005, at 19:28:09
My T has said a couple of times recently when I've been struggling with something in session, that he wasn't responding because he didn't want to "collude with me". Today I asked him what he meant by that. Of course he asked me what I thought first (sigh). I really hadn't thought that much about it, but as I was talking then, I said that intellectually I knew he was wanting me to figure things out myself, but that emotionally it felt like he was pulling back. And then of course I started to cry. I had no idea this was coming.
We spent a lot of time talking about losses and change. It seems like lately I've learned some important stuff about myself that is allowing me more choices in life. I've learned that I'm not really so much depressed as I am anxious. The way I tend to deal with anxiety is to retreat, which looks and feels like depression.
So now I need to find a way to cope with anxiety, which has been really bad at times now that I am allowing it into my consciousness. And maybe shed some baggage that I'm tired of carrying around. But that will also mean "shedding" therapy at some point. And that is a very painful thought. It doesn't help that I've got to terminate with a lot of clients in the next few weeks. I mentioned this and noted that for some it likely will be painful. He said "for the therapist, too." I suppose it will be hard for both of us in different ways.
Annierose asked why it had to be so hard. I have the same question. Today I said it was a royal pain in the butt.
sigh
gg
Posted by Dinah on August 24, 2005, at 19:47:47
In reply to Attachment and loss...possible trigger, posted by gardenergirl on August 24, 2005, at 19:28:09
I wish I knew what to say.
Posted by LadyBug on August 24, 2005, at 20:34:34
In reply to Attachment and loss...possible trigger, posted by gardenergirl on August 24, 2005, at 19:28:09
Gardengirl
I'm going through some attachment issues too and it is hard!! To the point I don't want to go see my therapist ever again, though I know if I quit I will never work it out.
It will be hard to say goodbye to your patients. Who has it the hardest? The patient or the therapist or both??? I hope when I get this attachment figured out I can be free of the pain inside of me. Yesterday at my session, she told me I have ambivalent insecure attachment. I've been reading up on it and YES I DO have it! Now how to work through it and be able to tolerate the pain.
I hope your feeling better about things soon.
Hugs
LadyBug
Posted by fallsfall on August 24, 2005, at 20:45:16
In reply to Attachment and loss...possible trigger, posted by gardenergirl on August 24, 2005, at 19:28:09
>I've learned that I'm not really so much depressed as I am anxious. The way I tend to deal with anxiety is to retreat, which looks and feels like depression.
We have a lot in common, GG. I didn't understand the anxiety part for the longest time.
I've had these conversations, but my therapist says that I can keep therapy even if I get better. He once said that therapy gets better as I get better. If I were to lose therapy when I stopped being depressed, I would stay depressed forever. I assume that at some point in the very distant future, that I won't feel the need to go to therapy, and that at that point it will be OK with me to let it go. But that is a long time away, and I have lots of work to do first.
I guess the difference is whether I will quit therapy because **I** don't need it anymore, or if I would need to quit because someone else says I don't need it anymore. I've lived in the later world for too long - and every day was painful.
I would be really surprised if your therapist recommended shedding therapy before you were sincerely personally motivated to do that. At some point, I think that you (and I) will get there (and I even think Dinah will get there). And when we are there, it won't be painful to leave therapy - it may still be sad, but not painful.
I believe that you don't have to "prove" that you are healed by quitting therapy. That the proof will come when quitting therapy isn't a big deal.
(((GG)))
Posted by daisym on August 24, 2005, at 21:49:30
In reply to Attachment and loss...possible trigger, posted by gardenergirl on August 24, 2005, at 19:28:09
Oh GG...you sound so sad. I know that learning lots about yourself is important and in some ways freeing, but change is hard, good and bad. This must be the theme of the week.
I know you must be aware (always) of the time restrictions on your therapy, because it is University related. But still, it seems that you are doing the work that will allow you to terminate in as gentle a way possible.
About anxiety -- I find it way worse to handle than depression. It makes me nuts trying to get away from it. I usually channel it into cleaning something. But I listen to it now, because it tells me something is up.
It still stinks. *sigh*
Posted by annierose on August 24, 2005, at 21:55:08
In reply to Attachment and loss...possible trigger, posted by gardenergirl on August 24, 2005, at 19:28:09
My T has used those exact same words "I want to hear your thoughts so I don't collude with you" --- AARRGGHH! or "put ideas into your head"
I didn't know what my "aarrggh" meant, but maybe you're right, it feels like that are pulling back. Also I feel like she isn't helping me, likes watching me struggle, grappling for the right word to describe the "GET ME OUT OF HERE!"
I'm glad you're back from your trip. I hope it was productive. Sorry that you're in the abyss with me. I'm hoping to buy a flashlight soon. I want to crawl my way towards the sunlight.
Do you have another year before you graduate? Is that why you are thinking about shedding therapy? It's unfortunate the university T's have a limited time frame, but understandable, as you are one too. You understand it from both perspectives. It's hard!
When your T said "it's hard for the therapist too", I think he was referring to losing you as a client one day. That was very sweet. I like him. And it's okay to be a royal pain, sometimes, they are too!
Posted by annierose on August 24, 2005, at 21:57:39
In reply to Re: Attachment and loss...possible trigger » gardenergirl, posted by fallsfall on August 24, 2005, at 20:45:16
Fallsfall -
I think you are in a GREAT place right now. Your posts are so clear. I read them and think, "she's right" or "I didn't think of that."
I'm pulling for you on Monday, just happy to see you here a lot this week. I really needed my babble friends (and dinner mates).
Posted by fallsfall on August 24, 2005, at 22:03:32
In reply to Re: Attachment and loss...possible trigger » fallsfall, posted by annierose on August 24, 2005, at 21:57:39
Posted by JenStar on August 25, 2005, at 0:35:44
In reply to Attachment and loss...possible trigger, posted by gardenergirl on August 24, 2005, at 19:28:09
hi gg,
I hope that things ease up, and that all the terms go as well as possible. I know you're such a caring and kind person...I'm sure that you will terminate each client in a gentle, thoughtful and positive way. I'm sure your clients will miss you, and it will be hard on you too, but I have no doubts that you'll handle it with grace and aplomb! :)JenStar
Posted by gardenergirl on August 25, 2005, at 21:42:24
In reply to ((((gardenergirl)))), posted by Dinah on August 24, 2005, at 19:47:47
Posted by gardenergirl on August 25, 2005, at 21:43:59
In reply to Re: Attachment and loss...possible trigger » gardenergirl, posted by LadyBug on August 24, 2005, at 20:34:34
Thanks, LB. It's hard to say about who has it harder, but I suspect it's more intense for patients most of the time. But then I've got a bunch to do at the same time, and they all only have to with me...
I don't know. It's hard all the way around I guess.
Thanks for hugs.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on August 25, 2005, at 21:46:48
In reply to Re: Attachment and loss...possible trigger » gardenergirl, posted by fallsfall on August 24, 2005, at 20:45:16
You're right about not needing to quit therapy just to prove I'm better. I don't really know why this came up at this point anyway. Although I do seem to recall a similar time when I was terminating at my last place and it kinda came up with my T. I wonder if I just have it on the mind, and translate it into making it about me?
But I don't have any target date. It just becomes more of a reality as I start getting better, I guess.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on August 25, 2005, at 21:50:05
In reply to Re: Attachment and loss...possible trigger » gardenergirl, posted by daisym on August 24, 2005, at 21:49:30
It does stink. And I am sad. I realized that a couple of friends moved out of state recently, too. More loss/change.
At least I am feeling more comfortable talking about our relationship. I usually shy away from that. Boy was I surprised at what came out of my mouth during the sesion, though.
He said I want guidance and reassurance. And he doesn't want to collude with me by giving that. But wouldn't a good parent give that? I don't really know. I never got that. Is it so terrible to want it now?
Dang it.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on August 25, 2005, at 21:54:14
In reply to Re: Attachment and loss...possible trigger » gardenergirl, posted by annierose on August 24, 2005, at 21:55:08
> > I didn't know what my "aarrggh" meant, but maybe you're right, it feels like that are pulling back.
Yeah, he thought it was interesting that I experienced it that way. Makes me feel like a little child. >
> I'm glad you're back from your trip. I hope it was productive. Sorry that you're in the abyss with me. I'm hoping to buy a flashlight soon. I want to crawl my way towards the sunlight.
It was a very good trip, and I felt really really good while I was there. Very free and authentic. I want to feel like that here, too. Maybe we need mining helmuts so we can have our hands free to sip Starbucks while we climb?
>
> Do you have another year before you graduate? Is that why you are thinking about shedding therapy? It's unfortunate the university T's have a limited time frame, but understandable, as you are one too. You understand it from both perspectives. It's hard!Yeah. I have another year, but that's hopefully it. And at first I thought I would go as long as I could. But now I feel like that won't be necessary. Which would be good. But it makes me sad.
>
> When your T said "it's hard for the therapist too", I think he was referring to losing you as a client one day. That was very sweet. I like him. And it's okay to be a royal pain, sometimes, they are too!Thanks, that's how I'm interpreting it, too. Sometimes he just tosses these little moments in, and if I were not really listening, I would miss them. Which would be a tragedy.
Thanks for support,
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on August 25, 2005, at 21:55:58
In reply to Re: Attachment and loss...possible trigger » gardenergirl, posted by JenStar on August 25, 2005, at 0:35:44
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'll do my best to put everything I've learned here to good use.
gg
Posted by Dinah on August 25, 2005, at 22:57:20
In reply to Attachment and loss...possible trigger, posted by gardenergirl on August 24, 2005, at 19:28:09
You know, it hasn't been all that long since you started going twice a week. Do you think that has played a big role in your doing better, or do you think life or chemistry has shifted?
Posted by daisym on August 26, 2005, at 0:08:51
In reply to Re: Attachment and loss...possible trigger » daisym, posted by gardenergirl on August 25, 2005, at 21:50:05
****He said I want guidance and reassurance. And he doesn't want to collude with me by giving that. But wouldn't a good parent give that? I don't really know. I never got that. Is it so terrible to want it now?****
No, it isn't terrible to want it. We all want guidance and reassurance sometime. We all need it sometime. And sometimes we need a small push towards self-reassurance and trusting in our own instincts. A good parent, or friend, or therapist, balances those things.
My therapist said today that we could go slow and that I was in complete control of what we talked about or how deep we go with something. I wanted to shout, "I don't want to be in control -- I want YOU to be in control!!!" It would be easier to get mad at him for "making" me talk about some of this stuff than taking responsibility for it. But he won't, I know that. He also said, "do you think it is important for us to talk about this some more?" I thought for a minute and said, "isn't that your job? To know if we should keep talking about this?" He was quiet and then said, "you know I always think we should talk about things, look at things, leave no stone unturned, look under every rock, leaf and log. I've always told you that. But it is still at your pace, your lead and your tolerance."
I guess no matter what we do, they want us to be in charge of ourselves. I just wish I didn't have to be in charge 24/7.
Posted by gardenergirl on August 26, 2005, at 14:49:17
In reply to Re: Attachment and loss...possible trigger » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on August 25, 2005, at 22:57:20
Hi Dinah,
I do think going twice a week has been a big factor. There have been some life things recently, but I don't know that anything would have been different if I had not already started examining stuff more intensely in therapy.I don't think it's anything chemical, but I do have hope for the first time of someday not being on Nardil. That's a big thing.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on August 26, 2005, at 14:53:30
In reply to Re: Attachment and loss...possible trigger, posted by daisym on August 26, 2005, at 0:08:51
> ****He said I want guidance and reassurance. And he doesn't want to collude with me by giving that. But wouldn't a good parent give that? I don't really know. I never got that. Is it so terrible to want it now?****
>
> No, it isn't terrible to want it. We all want guidance and reassurance sometime. We all need it sometime. And sometimes we need a small push towards self-reassurance and trusting in our own instincts. A good parent, or friend, or therapist, balances those things.Daisy, in reading our posts on both threads, I can see we are struggling with similar issues. I feel a bit like I am talking out both sides of my mouth. Darn those complex feelings and thoughts.
>
> I guess no matter what we do, they want us to be in charge of ourselves. I just wish I didn't have to be in charge 24/7.You know, I think that there is a strong wish for we "do it yourself-ers" to have someone take over now and then. But it's scary, too, giving up control. And yes, self-sufficience is a good and mature thing. But I think it's also a good thing to be able to allow vulnerability and caretaking with the right person. But it's a risk. And it could be damaging if it persists into dependence. Ack, I could argue both sides all day.
Hummmmmmm
gg
Posted by annierose on August 26, 2005, at 21:58:31
In reply to Re: Attachment and loss...possible trigger » daisym, posted by gardenergirl on August 26, 2005, at 14:53:30
Yes, yes, yes. This is a place where I am at too. I am trying to give into the vulnerability, but at what price? dependence?
Today my T did offer me reassuarance when I asked for it. It did feel good. I doubt she understood how much it took for me to ask for it, or what it meant to receive it.
Posted by All Done on August 28, 2005, at 2:19:17
In reply to Attachment and loss...possible trigger, posted by gardenergirl on August 24, 2005, at 19:28:09
(((gg))),
The subject of your post struck me. It's something my T and I have been talking about for the last three sessions. He said that for me there always seems to be an element of loss associated with attachment. I think the closer I get, the more I fear a potential - or in the case of therapy, the inevitable - loss. So, no matter how good or right the attachment feels, the flip side is so terribly painful for me. And there's almost a constant worry. So, I rarely let myself get "too" attached. But now, I feel like I'm missing out on the good part. Is it worth it at the cost of the pain? Sometimes I think it is.
Sigh. Sorry for the rambling. I hope we're talking about the same thing.
In any case, I wish it wasn't so hard, too.
Hugs,
Laurie
Posted by gardenergirl on August 28, 2005, at 15:44:47
In reply to Re: Attachment and loss...possible trigger » gardenergirl, posted by All Done on August 28, 2005, at 2:19:17
Hi Lala with the beautiful hair,
I think we are talking about the same thing. And it's a powerful attraction to reach out to someone who feels "safe" to attach to for support. But the long history of being let down, ignored, or pushed away can be a stronger force, and can come out and kick you in the butt without you even realizing it at first.sigh
I guess it takes repeated practice and repeated not being let down to overcome that.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on August 28, 2005, at 15:45:42
In reply to Re: Attachment and loss...possible trigger, posted by annierose on August 26, 2005, at 21:58:31
> Yes, yes, yes. This is a place where I am at too. I am trying to give into the vulnerability, but at what price? dependence?
>
> Today my T did offer me reassuarance when I asked for it. It did feel good. I doubt she understood how much it took for me to ask for it, or what it meant to receive it.
That's wonderful, annie. I'm glad you were able to ask, and your T felt it was okay to give.gg
This is the end of the thread.
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