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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by daisym on August 23, 2005, at 1:24:03
I had a pretty good session today. We talked about my kids a little and we spent most of our time on how I'm changing and how my husband is so unhappy with that. He is becoming more and more controlling and I'm pulling further and further away. I said the sad fact was that I was feeling more connected to my therapist than I was to my husband. I'm sure on some level he can feel this. It made me feel so sad but there were no tears today.
At the very, very end, my therapist said, "so we aren't meeting tomorrow." I nodded. I needed to cut out Tuesday because my session time conflicts with kid-pick-up time. I told him this was going to be a problem a few weeks ago. Last week he said he could move the time, but I've been thinking I was ready to cut down anyway. He said he thought I was operating on a "should" and not on what I wanted or needed. Today he asked me how I felt about not coming and I said I hated it but I thought I needed to try and tolerate it. He didn't argue, he just said, "we can talk about how it felt on Wed." So I left.
By the time I got back to my office, I was in tears. I felt like such a little kid, like he was being taken away and I was lost and alone. The need and longing was back 10-fold, which shocked me as I didn't feel this at all this weekend. I stood it for an hour and then I called him. I said I felt really stupid but I was having a complete meltdown about not coming tomorrow. So he made room for me in his schedule and he soothed my ruffled feathers and said we'd figure out what it was about tomorrow.
Tonight I'm having a hard time. I can't focus and I feel almost frantic about losing him. This isn't rational AT ALL. I can't believe how quickly I flipped into this feeling. Any ideas? What is going on that I can't even tolerate cutting back one session? It isn't like I won't still see him a lot. I half think I should cancel and just force myself to get used to this new schedule. I'm pretty sure I won't, but I feel like I should. I hate this! I feel like a little tiny kid. :(
Posted by fallsfall on August 23, 2005, at 9:15:34
In reply to Confusing meltdown, posted by daisym on August 23, 2005, at 1:24:03
Don't force yourself. That's what my first therapist did - she forced reduction in the number of sessions in order to "show" me that I could handle it on my own. But it really just made it worse. It wasn't until I was allowed to see my therapist as much as I wanted to that the intense dependency abated. As long as I wanted more, my whole energy was focused on surviving not having more - and that left me no energy to work on the original issues in my life.
I think that I do need my therapist less now that I see him more. I haven't called him between sessions in a long time. I still sometimes obsess about him (i.e. I made a jigsaw puzzle of a piece of paper with 16 pictures of his face, and sometimes I want to do that puzzle). I think about him. But I don't panic, because I know that he is there as much as I need him.
I could *feel* the change when I went from 2/week to 3/week. At 2/week I had to choose carefully what to talk about, and rush through things so I could get to everything. In a harder week, I would agonize over asking if I could have another session (and usually not ask). My focus was on missing him instead of working on my issues. When we went to 3/week, it just felt calmer. Like I had enough time. I compare it to how I felt when my 3rd child was born - 2 kids wasn't enough, but 3 really was - it was so clear.
You are doing to yourself what my first therapist did to me. You are making "rules" about how much you should see him. And those rules are too stingy. Give yourself permission to see him more. Recognize that it is something that you need right now. And then don't reduce sessions until you have felt for a full month that you are wasting his and your time by seeing him so much. Allow yourself to have what you need.
You have made a lot of progress recently. Let yourself keep making progress. Don't stand in your way.
(((Daisy)))
Posted by annierose on August 23, 2005, at 10:32:14
In reply to Confusing meltdown, posted by daisym on August 23, 2005, at 1:24:03
I don't have much to add from what Fallsfall said. But when I was thinking about adding a 3rd session a week, it was during a new job transition for my husband. We were not sure about the new insurance coverage. I wanted to go forward with the 3rd time. My T let me know that of course, isn't wasn't a problem, but once I became accustomed to that 3rd session, reducing it is quite difficult.
So that it is difficult isn't surprising. It is so hard to manage a full time job, multiple therapy sessions, kid's schedules, dinner-time, exercise, etc. etc.
You are extremely productive in your sessions. I hope you are able to find the time to keep going.
Posted by Shortelise on August 23, 2005, at 11:04:09
In reply to Confusing meltdown, posted by daisym on August 23, 2005, at 1:24:03
Those "irrational" feelings are the bane of my life. Feelings that come from somewhere deep in the bone, somewhere so old I don't know how to understand them sometimes.
I think that is where "staying with the feelings" is supposed to be helpful.
Daisy, how well I know that feeling of someone I need being taken away. It's from tiny childhood for me, and after too. I guess it's about separation, and the loss we can feel when separation happens badly.
There is a book by John Bowlby "Separation: Anxiety and Anger". It's a psych. book, the second of a series called "Attachment and Loss". Not a self-help book, but one of the ones a T would have to read in school - or at least refer to. I came across it for 50 cents in a second hand store and couldn't pass it up as it is so ... topical! The library would have it, and it's worth a look, though it's not an easy one.
Daisy, when we've established a safe attachment, a secure one, the idea of letting go of it is terrifying, isn't it? And letting one session a week go would, for me, mean the beginning of the end of the relationship. It's fear of death, fear of loss, fear of the abyss. We are helpless as children, incapable of surviving without a caregiver, and we go into that with our T's.
We flip into these feelings right off when they are triggered. It's knee jerk.
Maybe what you need to decide is are you ready to go there, have you dealt with the things you need to in therapy, and are you ready to deal with this stuff. Maybe as you still see your T often, it wouldn't be the focus of your sessions for very long? Maybe it would be helpful to go there now. Or maybe you are in the middle of other things that would be interrupted by this, and it would be best to postpone cutting back. I think I'd talk to my T about it.
I find it hard not to be motivated by fear. So, I wonder if I am making a "rational" decision sometimes, or if I am making a decision based on fear.
Daisy, I know I've written things you know well already, but I hope it helps to read them.
((Daisy))
ShortE
Posted by daisym on August 23, 2005, at 12:02:17
In reply to Re: Confusing meltdown, posted by fallsfall on August 23, 2005, at 9:15:34
I want to do what you suggest but I want to do it without worry. And I can't seem to do that. I keep asking questions like, "it is Ok for me to come this much, right?" or "what happened to me was bad, bad enough for therapy, right?" I feel like I need to justify what I want. I can't just want it.
This is an old circle. We've been around and around the "need vs. want" cycle. Sometimes you can't have what you want. What you want isn't good for you. But I'm having a hard time separating need from want here.
Wouldn't it be healthier to back myself away and fill up that time with other self-soothing, self actualizing pursuits? (I know what you are thinking, you think I'd use the time for work. You are probably right.)
Posted by daisym on August 23, 2005, at 12:08:28
In reply to Re: Confusing meltdown, posted by annierose on August 23, 2005, at 10:32:14
It isn't the time as much as the timing. I'm lucky in that I mostly can come and go as I please from work. For the first time in 4 years I'll be the only driver for kid stuff in the area (my husband commutes an hour) and this is a big adjustment for me.
But more than that, I feel like I've given in to my therapy needs this summer in a big way and now I need to focus on other tasks. I spend too much time in my head, on my inner life. My therapist would argue that this is my mother's voice "nose to the grindstone" and all that. But I can't help but think she is right sometimes. You have to push yourself to get used to new things and change is hard, good changes or bad.
I guess I didn't realize that my sense of self was still so fragile that it could get shaken so easily and irrationally. The worst part is that I'm doing this to myself.
*sigh*
Posted by daisym on August 23, 2005, at 12:19:25
In reply to Re: Confusing meltdown » daisym, posted by Shortelise on August 23, 2005, at 11:04:09
It *does* help to read stuff, even if I only half know it.
I'm not sure why I'm having such a big fear reaction to something I initiated. I was journaling questions last night and one that I wrote down was "Am I hoping he will intervene and not allow me to derail myself or otherwise revert to old patterns?" But as I wrote that I know that I'm far enough a long in this process to recognize when I am sabotaging myself. I just can't always stop myself.
It terrifies me that I could be moving towards the end of this. And it terrifies me that I might not be near the end. That double edge sword again. Of course my therapist's interpretation is that I've gotten too close to him again, revealed some really intimate things and I'm protecting myself. He could be right.
It still doesn't explain the sudden tidal wave of panic that came over me last night. It felt like I quit outright, but that was so far from the truth. It is hard to make rational decisions when consumed by fear, isn't it?
I will talk to him. Want to bet he'll say "you just aren't ready to do this yet"? And he'll ask that horrible question, "what would it mean if you really did "just" want this, instead of need it and you let yourself have it anyway?" Urg. Maybe I don't really need a session this morning, I'm having it all by myself, and with you guys.
I still feel about 7 years old today. I even called in and I'm working from home for awhile. I can't face those grown-ups at work. :(
Posted by daisym on August 23, 2005, at 15:10:58
In reply to Re: Confusing meltdown » Shortelise, posted by daisym on August 23, 2005, at 12:19:25
I don't think I even got through the first sentence of, "I'm a wreck but I feel so stupid for being this upset..." before the tears came. He let me talk myself out, since I was arguing both sides, before he jumped in. He told me it wasn't stupid, it was important. And that he thought that there were a couple of things in play:
1) Pulling back a little might unconsciously mean to me pulling back a lot. If I was Ok giving up a session, then maybe I could give up one more and then one more. He pointed out that I'd already given up my check in calls, so perhaps this felt like the beginning of the end. (Hmmm, just what you said ShortE.) There was a new flood of tears here so he knew he was on to something.
2) He said I have very high expectations for myself and my ability to cope gracefully with life's curves. I know that therapy helps me do that but I also feel that therapy is a crutch, which to me means I'm not up to par. He wondered if I could just see it as a necessary support right now, instead of an indulgence. He also said I might be testing myself to see how important he, and therapy, are to me; Does it still feel like a primal need? (yes!)
3) He thinks there is an element of punishment to this. I've been telling the stories again, only more bluntly and honestly. He said perhaps I was inflicting punishment upon myself (the younger parts) for telling...which is why my reaction and panic comes from such a young place. My worst fear about anyone finding out what was happening when I was young was that they would take away my dad or I would be rejected by my mom.My response to all this was that I felt a huge need to say, "I'm not done! I don't want to stop yet! Please don't leave me in the middle of this!" He nodded as if this made sense to him. I wish it did to me. Because he wasn't agreeing that I should cut back. And he clearly said we were still in the middle of things, with a lot to work on, so we weren't beginning termination.
I commented that I didn't understand why I was still crying, since we agreed to leave things as they are now, except make a time change on Tuesdays. He said he thought it was sort of like when a child gets lost in a big store and then is found again. There is relief and fear and some anger about being allowed to get lost in the first place. Total emotional fallout, not rational. So it was OK to cry and let go of it.
He gently (and oh so carefully) suggested that maybe all this upset was worth it, if it cemented for me how important our connection is and how OK it is for me to be this attached to him and to therapy. He said it takes a lot of attachment to work this deep with this much emotion. So he's glad for it.
At the end he said he was sorry I felt so lost but he was glad he was the one I was looking for, and very glad that he found me again. Me too.
Posted by annierose on August 23, 2005, at 17:51:39
In reply to I cried the whole time, posted by daisym on August 23, 2005, at 15:10:58
Daisy -
I'm so glad you went and you poured your heart out to your T.
"He gently (and oh so carefully) suggested that maybe all this upset was worth it, if it cemented for me how important our connection is and how OK it is for me to be this attached to him and to therapy. He said it takes a lot of attachment to work this deep with this much emotion. So he's glad for it.
At the end he said he was sorry I felt so lost but he was glad he was the one I was looking for, and very glad that he found me again. Me too."
I love this dialogue. He cares so deeply for you and wants help you so darn much!! I just want to hug him (on your behalf of course). It helps me to know that it's good to be that attached, to work deeply. I'll remember that in my angst.
Your thread topic was "I cried the whole time". But do you feel relieved now, more hopeful? I am glad you worked on a Tuesday time.
Good work!
Posted by Dinah on August 23, 2005, at 17:58:42
In reply to I cried the whole time, posted by daisym on August 23, 2005, at 15:10:58
I'm glad you changed the time so you don't have to change the frequency. I was going to shout at you "For God's sake, don't do it!!!"
But that didn't seem all that supportive. :(
Posted by fallsfall on August 23, 2005, at 19:49:26
In reply to I cried the whole time, posted by daisym on August 23, 2005, at 15:10:58
>At the end he said he was sorry I felt so lost but he was glad he was the one I was looking for, and very glad that he found me again. Me too.
Me, too.
(((((...Daisy)))))...
Posted by Shortelise on August 24, 2005, at 0:40:31
In reply to I cried the whole time, posted by daisym on August 23, 2005, at 15:10:58
That brings tears to my eyes, Daisy. He seems to know just what to say. How good it must feel to hear those things from him.
ShortE
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