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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by daisym on August 5, 2005, at 1:06:11
Or so a wise friend told me. (thanks GG :) Turns out she was right.
Yesterday there was this stupid fly in the room during my session. It kept landing on my therapist, who waved it away but he was visibly distracted and annoyed. I could tell he was trying to ignore it but I saw out of the corner of my eye everytime he flicked it away. And we both commented on it a couple of times. I felt myself tensing up more and more, trying to pretend that it didn't matter and I kept going even though I just wanted to leave. Only I didn't want to leave. I wanted to stop, swat the stupid fly and then get connected again. I simply plowed through because it was what I was supposed to do, it was the polite thing to do and I knew he was upset about the fly so I needed to not be, I needed to not let it bother me. I kept waiting for him to explode. When I left, I felt so upset that when I got to the car I just burst into tears. But they were release tears, like the kind you cry after something really scary has happened but you survived it.
GG seemed to think that I identified with the fly -- not leaving him alone and making him more and more annoyed. I kept waiting for him to swat it away (swat me away) and she pointed out the enormous power he had over the fly. But I also think it was waiting for the explosion. Usually we are in such a controlled environment, I don't have to worry about his reactions to the environmental stuff. Sometimes there are noises, like lawn mowers or street work, but I can usually shut those out. And sometimes I can hear clients next door, hushed mumbles or shoes on the floor, but I've never felt unsafe like this before.
We talked about all this today. He wanted to know what I was afraid would happen if he exploded. And he wondered if the fly was really the problem, or was I was afraid he would explode because we were talking about getting and giving hugs. Was I waiting to be rejected? It was a good question, because that is a very hard subject for me. I don't really know what to think.
Except...it seems that if a simple thing like a fly in the room can cause this much upset and disruption for me, I'm certainly not as stable as I want to be. I don't want to be so negative all the time, especially when I feel like I should be able to help it more. Sometimes I can't, but sometimes I feel stronger, like over last weekend and I want to sustain it. I told him all this today too. He said he thinks I might be on the wrong medication and perhaps that is contributing to the mood swings. He suggested another Pdoc, someone who might be a better fit than the one I currently have. I actively avoid her, so maybe I need to go see this other person. He also said that the up and downs were part and parcel of the work we are doing. It is hard to work this deep and intensively and not have it be disruptive sometimes. I know this is all true. But it is hard not to just think of myself as weak and pathetic. And I know he doesn't want me to suffer, but I still feel sent away overtime he brings up the pdoc. I left in tears, already missing him.
What am I doing wrong here?
Posted by rs on August 5, 2005, at 6:05:36
In reply to Sometimes a fly is not just a fly... (long), posted by daisym on August 5, 2005, at 1:06:11
Hi daisy.
You asked what are you doing wrong here? Daisy nothing at all. You were hurt and trying to find peace and caring. You deserve it and it will come.
This is weird. Tuesday in my session T said how there was a fly bugging everyone that day. Well two of them. He did the same. Tried to swat them. Also landed on him. I said that if it landed on his bald head I would kill it. He said i would enjoy that too much. I am sorry that it was hard for you but I understnad that it makes much sense.
Daisy hang in there and again you are doing nothing wrong.
Hugs if ok
Posted by All Done on August 5, 2005, at 8:28:11
In reply to Sometimes a fly is not just a fly... (long), posted by daisym on August 5, 2005, at 1:06:11
> And I know he doesn't want me to suffer, but I still feel sent away overtime he brings up the pdoc. I left in tears, already missing him.
(((Daisy))),
Please try not to feel like your T is sending you away when he brings up the pdoc. My T always tells me that he feels the best thing is to have psychotherapy as well as medication. Sometimes, one of those alone just isn't as effective when not coupled with the other.
You are right. Your T doesn't want you to suffer. He wants you to feel better. By sending you to the pdoc, he's just trying to give you the best chance there is to feel better.
If you were in a contest where you could win a million dollars and a car, would you just take the million dollars? Why not have both, if you can? The contest isn't for one or the other and, maybe more importantly, no one is saying if you want the car you can only have $500,000. Your T will still be there for you *as much* as you need him.
I'm sorry this is such a slow process and that you had such a triggering session the other day.
Gentle hugs,
LaurieP.S. Thanks for introducing me to the wonders of the toasted PB and J with apricot jam. Maybe one would help you today.
Posted by jammerlich on August 5, 2005, at 10:35:04
In reply to Sometimes a fly is not just a fly... (long), posted by daisym on August 5, 2005, at 1:06:11
>>>>>And I know he doesn't want me to suffer, but I still feel sent away overtime he brings up the pdoc. I left in tears, already missing him.
Do you think this comes from feeling like he wants you medicated so you'll be less of a "problem" for him. I ask because that's how I felt when my former T brought up medicine and then told me I couldn't come back unless I took it. In my head, I know that this isn't why our T's have suggested this. And when I look at you, I really believe it - beyond a shadow of a doubt. But for some reason, when it comes to myself, I can't make what I know and what I feel match.
Daisy, your T is not trying to send you away. And if I can ever get a handle on making the know equal the feel, I'll be sure to let you in on it.
Posted by orchid on August 5, 2005, at 13:47:33
In reply to Sometimes a fly is not just a fly... (long), posted by daisym on August 5, 2005, at 1:06:11
It probably indicates the intensity of feelings you have developed for the therapy and of course your therapist.
In therapy, we develop huge deal of sometimes irrational feelings, and things which cannot be expalined logically, and they are an indication of the other intense feelings you have. It has nothing to do with the fly I would think - but more to do with the way you could have perceived your therapist and therapy to be - kind of built a glass house and kept both in it, and any real life distractions seem horrible to take - and maybe indicates the fragility of this whole thing for you.
Posted by Daisym on August 5, 2005, at 14:42:54
In reply to Re: Sometimes a fly is not just a fly... (long) » daisym, posted by rs on August 5, 2005, at 6:05:36
Must be fly season. I have this great picture of you swatting away at your therapist. I really want to bring a giant fly-swatter to my next session. :)
Thanks for saying I'm not doing it wrong. I have this unshakable idea that 'if only' I could figure out the magic thing, I wouldn't slide back into feeling sad.
Today is better though.
Hugs from me,
Daisy
Posted by Daisym on August 5, 2005, at 14:48:58
In reply to Re: Sometimes a fly is not just a fly... (long) » daisym, posted by All Done on August 5, 2005, at 8:28:11
Today I self medicated with cold strawberry shortcake. :) It was too hot for toast.
I like your analogy of winning money and a car. I can intellectually get there, I even already made the first call for an appointment, but something gets twisted inside when this happens. I have to ask myself if I'm afraid to feel better -- do I connect feeling better with losing my therapist? I should bring this up again, I know. Instead I've retreated for the weekend, cancelled my check-in call for today and am practicing my list of good things for Monday.
And I plan to eat more cake later. :)
Posted by Daisym on August 5, 2005, at 14:53:33
In reply to Re: Sometimes a fly is not just a fly... (long) » daisym, posted by jammerlich on August 5, 2005, at 10:35:04
***But for some reason, when it comes to myself, I can't make what I know and what I feel match.***
It is a stupid system, isn't it? But so true. There are different ways of knowing things but you'd think the head would get to lead.
My therapist will use that technique with me sometimes: "what would you tell someone else?" but I have the same problem. I really believe what I tell other people they deserve. And I just can't apply it to myself. Why is it so much easier to believe the bad stuff than the good stuff?
Posted by Daisym on August 5, 2005, at 14:57:55
In reply to Re: Sometimes a fly is not just a fly... (long) » daisym, posted by orchid on August 5, 2005, at 13:47:33
***maybe indicates the fragility of this whole thing for you.***
I wanted to reject this, my head says, "no, I know therapy is secure and my therapist is steady." But there is always an underlying fear that something or someone is going to come along and wipe it all out. I'm afraid I will mess it all up. I think it is my ability to sink into the support of it that is so fragile. And you are right, it wasn't about the fly at all.
Posted by orchid on August 5, 2005, at 15:58:56
In reply to Re: Sometimes a fly is not just a fly... (long) » orchid, posted by Daisym on August 5, 2005, at 14:57:55
Therapy is not fragile with a good therapist such as yours.
What I meant, was, the way, we clients, sometimes keep it kind of high up in a pedestal and any reality seems to bring huge distress to us. Like when I was in therapy, my therapist once wrote a email to me and it had his wife's name in the From line. I was totally devastated and started crying seeing that, even though it was a very very simple mistake on his part. I started extrapolating it - and wondering about if his wife reads all my emails, or if he gave away "my special email id" to his wife indicating that I don't matter anymore. I even thought if he purposefully did it - to let me know that he had a wife and I was not to continue writing to him.
So those kind of expectations that I had was fragile. That is what I meant.
Posted by All Done on August 5, 2005, at 16:34:40
In reply to Re: Sometimes a fly is not just a fly... (long) » All Done, posted by Daisym on August 5, 2005, at 14:48:58
> Today I self medicated with cold strawberry shortcake. :) It was too hot for toast.
Now, Daisy, I'm trying to watch what I eat...you're killin' me! ;) ;)
> I like your analogy of winning money and a car. I can intellectually get there, I even already made the first call for an appointment, but something gets twisted inside when this happens. I have to ask myself if I'm afraid to feel better -- do I connect feeling better with losing my therapist? I should bring this up again, I know. Instead I've retreated for the weekend, cancelled my check-in call for today and am practicing my list of good things for Monday.
>
> And I plan to eat more cake later. :)Have you ever asked your T about feeling better and does that mean you have to stop therapy? If so, what did he say? I expressed this concern to my T and I'm actually pretty confident that feeling better doesn't have much to do with ending therapy. I think I can keep going as long as we aren't trying to work on things that are dead ends, so to speak. Or as long as we feel therapy is productive and we can continue to make progress.
I'm guessing he won't let that go on forever, though. :( At some point, he will have other reasons for terminating, but I don't think my feeling better is one of them.
I'm off to get some cake. :)Laurie
Posted by Daisym on August 5, 2005, at 16:49:25
In reply to Re: Sometimes a fly is not just a fly... (long) » Daisym, posted by orchid on August 5, 2005, at 15:58:56
I think you are right, that when reality intrudes, we unravel a little. I can remember an evening a long while ago that I left a distressed message and when my therapist called back, I knew he wasn't at home. He was on his cell and he wanted to tell me he had picked up the message and would call me later, but couldn't really talk now. I back pedaled so fast...and was horrified that I had intruded on his life! I told him once that I *knew* he didn't live in his office with a hot plate and a murphy bed but just like kids don't think of their teachers outside of the classroom, I tended to think of him in his office. Such little kid thinking!
Which brings me back to the struggle of intellectual capacity for this and the feelings that get evoked. I want them to match!
Posted by orchid on August 5, 2005, at 16:57:23
In reply to Re: Sometimes a fly is not just a fly... (long) » orchid, posted by Daisym on August 5, 2005, at 16:49:25
Yeah - it is so very hard to accept that we can figure out everything intellectually, but emotionally, it always seems like a maze through which we cannot find a way out. And we feel like such little kids lost in a fair.
Maybe just remember, that the two parts of the brains are totally different. There is an overlap between the two, but our emotional brains age, and our logical brain's age never matches. And I think that is a way with many people. And that is why, very smart people end up making very stupid mistakes in their personal lives, why people fall in love with the wrong persons all the time, why abused kids keep wanting to be with abusive men. All these things - our logical mind has very very little control over. These emotions, need to be accessed with different kind of tools and different reasoning, and trying to tell that part with our logical mind to "behave" never works !!
Maybe once you accept that, this kind of struggle would lessen for you - and you would perhaps be able to operate at different age states with the different parts and wouldn't feel the need to be at a consistent age state. Maybe you would come to accept that you really are both a 10 year old kid, and a "your current age now" women. And that might make you comfortable.
Posted by Daisym on August 5, 2005, at 17:03:05
In reply to Re: Sometimes a fly is not just a fly... (long) » Daisym, posted by All Done on August 5, 2005, at 16:34:40
I have said this before and we've talked about this. He is definately of the opinion that people can benefit from therapy at so many different levels, you don't have to be feeling crummy to get something out of it.
It isn't him. It is me. I feel like I need to justify the support (and expense) and if I feel better, how can I? And for me, if I'm not absolutely suicidal or non-motivated, then I go to the "I'm strong enough to do this myself" place.
Yesterday my therapist asked, "doesn't anything about being attached to me feel good?" I said, "well, yes -- but that's not the point." He argued that this is totally the point, allowing myself to have support that feels good. It is a scary and powerful thing for me. And a core issue in my therapy.
*sigh* -- Need more cake.
Posted by All Done on August 7, 2005, at 0:50:26
In reply to Re: Sometimes a fly is not just a fly... (long) » All Done, posted by Daisym on August 5, 2005, at 17:03:05
> I have said this before and we've talked about this. He is definately of the opinion that people can benefit from therapy at so many different levels, you don't have to be feeling crummy to get something out of it.
>
> It isn't him. It is me. I feel like I need to justify the support (and expense) and if I feel better, how can I? And for me, if I'm not absolutely suicidal or non-motivated, then I go to the "I'm strong enough to do this myself" place.If it was your son's therapy, would you feel he needed to justify going? Even when we feel better, we need support to keep that feeling going. We all get that support from many different areas, but when it is or was lacking in one place, we have to find it elsewhere. No one needs to live life on their own or without support. I understand how you feel that doesn't apply to you, but it does. Really.
> Yesterday my therapist asked, "doesn't anything about being attached to me feel good?" I said, "well, yes -- but that's not the point." He argued that this is totally the point, allowing myself to have support that feels good. It is a scary and powerful thing for me. And a core issue in my therapy.
You're working hard on this and I'm glad that you are because you deserve to feel good.
Just out of curiosity, what did you argue *is* the point of a good attachment to a supportive T?
> *sigh* -- Need more cake.
What's you're favorite kind? I love to bake, you know.
Posted by daisym on August 7, 2005, at 1:33:13
In reply to Re: Sometimes a fly is not just a fly... (long) » Daisym, posted by All Done on August 7, 2005, at 0:50:26
I argued that the attachment had more potential negatives than positives. And I listed them: 1)I am too attached, so I am bound to overwhelm and annoy him. (Like the fly, he said.) 2)It makes leaving sessions really hard and I often am in tears, not a very graceful exit. (He said I don't have to be graceful, it's therapy.) 3)The intensity of it scares me, because I'm not sure what I wouldn't do to keep it.(He said I'll have to trust him to hold the line on this one, even if I don't trust myself.) 4) It keeps me coming to therapy too much. (He said he doesn't think focusing on myself "for once" is a bad thing.)
Right now my favorite cake is funnel cake from the Fair, but usually it is german chocolate. But I'm easy, I'll eat almost anything.
This is the end of the thread.
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