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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by molly_a on August 1, 2005, at 1:47:40
First off, I'd like to say hello. I'm brand new to Babble and all of you seem great.
Now I have a question:
I am 14 years old, and have been seeing a (male) therapist for about 7 months. I love him, which, from what I've gathered here, is very normal and okay. But he has also told me that he loves me, that he often wishes I was his own child, and that I'm special and not just an ordinary client. He hugs me and occasionally holds my hand. When he does these things, it makes me feel so good, and I feel like he is being what my father should've always been. But sometimes I wonder if the things that he does and/or says are genuine, and not just some "technique" that he is using to help gain my trust; or if they're caused by countertransference on his part. (Mind you, he has a daughter who just left home for college.)
Also, is our relationship ethical, or is it the starting grounds for an unhealthy theraputic alliance? Everything we do is very innocent, and it doesn't seem to be harming the theraputic relationship thus far. But I guess that I'm just worried, because of everything I've read about boundaries and the likes. The truth is that I'm scared to death of losing him, and from what I've read, any therapy with physical contact and therapist self-disclosure just doesn't work out. I really would just like you're opinions.
Thank you for listening to me. I know I'm young and naive, but I'll try my best to help others here on Babble.
Posted by bent on August 1, 2005, at 7:03:54
In reply to Is it genuine? Or even okay?, posted by molly_a on August 1, 2005, at 1:47:40
Hi Molly. First let me say that I am impressed by your insight and bravery at 14. You are wise to look carefully at your relationship with your therapist. I think you are riding a very fine line with him. From what you describe his intentions sound 'innocent' but I am not sure he should be so openly singling you out. It does sound more like counterstransference to me. Like you said, he has a daughter. Just as so many of us here can picture our therapists as perfect mothers/fathers/lovers/etc, it kinda sounds like your T is doing that in reverse, hence countertransference. I would talk about it with him. That probably sounds tough but you can do it. I doubt you would have posted here if this wasnt important to you and by simply letting him know what you are observing and how it makes you feel might preserve your relationship rather that let it get more fuzzy and unclear. This is tough. I am glad you noiticed it and are questioning it. Good luck.
Posted by Tamar on August 1, 2005, at 7:17:18
In reply to Is it genuine? Or even okay?, posted by molly_a on August 1, 2005, at 1:47:40
Hi Molly, and welcome to Babble!
Your question is very sensible and I’m hoping that people who know more than me will chip in and answer too.
It sounds good that you love your therapist and you know he loves you. And yet I can imagine you might feel uncomfortable about what’s going on, especially after reading what people here say about boundaries.
From what I’ve read, it’s not uncommon for the boundaries to be a little different in therapy with kids. Kids often need physical contact from their therapists in order for therapy to work, and they sometimes need to be told outright that the therapist loves them, because they don’t have adult ways of relating to other people.
Having said that, I think the stuff I was reading was about pre-teens. If you’re 14, then of course you’re not a little kid any more. You’re at that complicated stage between childhood and adulthood. So I can imagine that the boundaries might not be the same as for women in their twenties or older, but also the boundaries might not be the same as for little kids. And as far as I know, most therapists who work with children and teenagers specialise in work with young people rather than working with adults. I don’t know if that’s the case with your therapist.
If you feel comfortable with the hugs and with your therapist saying he loves you, then I think it’s OK. The only point that worries me a little is that he says he wishes you were his own child and that you’re not just an ordinary client. That doesn’t seem to be in keeping with what I think therapists should say to their clients. If he said he cares about you *as if* you were his own child, that might be different. But of course he can’t actually be your father.
And of course you are special and not *just* an ordinary client, but I don’t think he should be leading you to expect that your relationship with him can be anything but a therapeutic relationship. If it were to become something else (like a friendship) then it wouldn’t be therapy any more and then you’d need to find a new therapist. And I don’t think he should be disclosing very much about himself beyond the basics (like his age, whether he’s married, whether he has kids, that sort of thing). But I’m not an expert.
I think if you are worried (or if you ever become worried) about anything he does or says, then you should tell another adult. Is there someone you can trust to talk to about it? The fact is, most therapists are responsible, professional people who don’t take advantage of their clients. But the few therapists who act inappropriately can do a great deal of damage. It’s hard to trust your instincts in therapy, especially when you’re a teenager and you don’t have as much life experience as older women. But there are a few things to watch out for: if he ever suggests meeting outside therapy, or if he ever tells you very personal details about his life (like for example how he feels about his wife). That sort of thing would be worrying.
If you feel able to talk to him about it, that might help. If you ask him to explain how the boundaries for teenagers in therapy are different from the boundaries for adults, perhaps he can set your mind at rest. And at least it will make him think about the way he’s working with the boundaries in your relationship. But I know it’s difficult to raise things like this in therapy.
> Thank you for listening to me. I know I'm young and naive, but I'll try my best to help others here on Babble.
You may be young, but you sound mature and wise. I hope you find a way to work out the answers to these complex questions!
Tamar
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on August 1, 2005, at 8:52:54
In reply to Is it genuine? Or even okay?, posted by molly_a on August 1, 2005, at 1:47:40
Hi Molly,
First off, let me compliment you on your eloquence and ability to express yourself so clearly, as well as your objectivity. Honestly, simply because you are able to question a situation which may feel good to you now, but may be detrimental in the long run, shows a lot of maturity and intelligence.
That said, I agree with everyone else on this question. In my opinion, your T holding your hand, telling you he wishes you were his child, even expressing his love, indicates huge red flags all over the place. And to be honest, and this is my own double standard, I don't think I would be quite so alarmed if your T were a woman. At least I wouldn't be alarmed by the hand holding or expressions of love. It seems a lot of people here with female Ts have a more open relationship with them, feminine nature I suppose.
But, as was mentioned before, you are not a child. The touching in my opinion is highly inappropriate and unprofessional between opposite sex T and client. The singling you out as well as his favorite or extraordinary or that he wishes you were his is also extremely inappropriate. And the love declarations? While I know it feels good to know your T loves you, I really don't think it's appropriate that he express this (again just my opinion, others I'm sure will disagree).
I worry about his motives with all of this. Do you feel as if the touching is progressing? Do you get wierd vibes from him? I think you are since you have been brave enough to ask all of us. If something doesn't feel right to you, it probably isn't. One thing people have learned to do is no longer trust their instincts, no longer trust their intuition. Your intuition is a powerful tool which should not be ignored. So, even though this all feels good to you now, I think your intuition is trying to tell you something.
Posted by AuntieMel on August 1, 2005, at 11:24:04
In reply to Is it genuine? Or even okay?, posted by molly_a on August 1, 2005, at 1:47:40
Well, first off, welcome to babble.
It seems that there is something going on that is making you uncomfortable, right? Otherwise you wouldn't have thought to ask.
Are you worried that he isn't 'real' or are you woried that he might be overstepping boundaries?
Posted by molly_a on August 1, 2005, at 11:42:47
In reply to Re: Is it genuine? Or even okay? » molly_a, posted by AuntieMel on August 1, 2005, at 11:24:04
> Well, first off, welcome to babble.
>
> It seems that there is something going on that is making you uncomfortable, right? Otherwise you wouldn't have thought to ask.
>
> Are you worried that he isn't 'real' or are you woried that he might be overstepping boundaries?
I'm not sure. It was just kind of alarming to me to find out how strict boundaries usually are, or "should be". And I figure that, if physical contact etc. were healthy in a theraputic relationship, there wouldn't be so many rules against it! But at the same time, there probably is a difference in boundaries with a 14 year old, than there is with a woman who is say, 25. Does anyone happen to have any websites where I could read up on that?I do wonder if he is "real," or if he is just using a tactic if you will, to help me feel loved and understood. Have you ever heard of a T doing that?
And Miss Honeychurch, I'm getting absolutely no bad vibes from him, in fact my intuition is telling me that it is okay. However, my intuition is probably pretty nonexistent. lol. Anyway, my point, I guess, is that there is absolutely nothing sexual involved. He is a loving man, and I trust him enough to know that he would never intentionally hurt me. But I am also careful enough to be open to recognizing a problem if one does come up.
Thanks so much. I appreciate your insight.
Posted by pinkeye on August 1, 2005, at 13:14:42
In reply to Re: Is it genuine? Or even okay?, posted by molly_a on August 1, 2005, at 11:42:47
Hi Molly,
I am really impressed by your wisdom and efforts to reach out at 14 !!. I didn't have it at that age. You are amazing !!.
Not all physical contacts need to be ruled out in therapy - hugs and patting on the backs are ok - as long as they are not sexual.
And I am sure he telling you all those things "wishing that you were his child" etc, are kind of casual - not meant to be taken literally. But if some comment makes you feel uncomfortable, bring it up to him. Ask him if he really means that, or just indicates that he likes you.
Therapists are supposed to treat all patients as equal. With kids, many therapists do feel more affectionate with, and I suppose will be more loving and caring than they are with adults. And I suppose that it is ok, as long as it doesn't transgress into something sexual.
I think you are smart enough to find out if he is being sexual, but you said your gut reaction is that he is innocent, and if you feel he is innocent, go along with it.
Perhaps you should bring it up to him, that you are concerned about it, and it might throw some light on to your thoughts.. perhaps you are having some transference towards him, and consequently, feeling all these feelings. It might be worthwhile to bring it up to your therapist. He might be just treating you as a kid, and you might already be a woman, and hence more attuned towards sexuality etc.
Posted by fairywings on August 1, 2005, at 13:46:15
In reply to Re: Is it genuine? Or even okay? » molly_a, posted by Tamar on August 1, 2005, at 7:17:18
Hi Molly,
This sounds just like the relationship I had with my first therapist when I was your age, who was a psychiatrist. What concerns me is that you might form an unhealthy dependence on him. Mine also said he loved me, that he wished that he were my father, that he hated my father for the things he did to me, and he even told me he wanted to take care of me - there was more to that, but I won't get into it.
So far, do you feel dependent on him? Are you doing anything to get his attention that you weren't doing before you started therapy? Are you on any medications?
I hope you are as strong as you are (obviously) bright!
fairywings
(who wasn't so strong or so bright!)
Posted by fairywings on August 1, 2005, at 13:49:09
In reply to Re: Is it genuine? Or even okay? » Tamar, posted by fairywings on August 1, 2005, at 13:46:15
Posted by Dinah on August 7, 2005, at 10:50:29
In reply to Is it genuine? Or even okay?, posted by molly_a on August 1, 2005, at 1:47:40
I think Fairywings was right. I think maybe because men mature more slowly than women, he might not understand the sorts of feelings that can be stirred up.
That's the charitable explanation, and I hope sincerely it's the correct one. That he is treating you in a way that would be appropriate for a younger client.
But as with *everything* in therapy, I think the first step is to talk about it with him. If you tell him you've read some things that indicate that his behavior with you isn't the norm for adult therapy at least, and describe the boundaries you see in other therapeutic relationships, it will give you the opportunity to talk about how things are different in yours.
It's always scary to talk about things like that in therapy, but unless a therapist is being grossly inappropriate, I *always* think honest discussion should be the way to go.
This is the end of the thread.
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