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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Shortelise on July 16, 2005, at 23:19:31
So, how are my patient Babbling friends?
I will see my T for the first time since I stormed out of his office five weeks ago muttering that he's a nasty little man.
I am confused. On the one hand I feel, as he said on the phone later, that my behaviour was "not acceptable". He said it wasn't acceptable at "this point in therapy" for me to walk out, nor was it acceptable for me to call him a nasty "person" within the hearing of others.
So, ok, should I feel sorry? I don't think I do. And I feel badly about that.
I don't know what to say to him.
I feel like saying, ok, go ahead an tell me what you think, Doc. Go ahead and tell me how angry you are and why. Tell me how wrong I was, how "bad" I am. That mustbe a pattern.
But then I also want to ask him to help me, not alienate me. Another pattern?
I also feel like saying, hey, it's ok, I can go now, and I'll be ok. But then, I have this feeling in my body, this really hard to stand feeling, like sadness, but like impotence too. Helplessness. Frustration. Capitulation.
This is all just incomprehensible to me, and I feel I can't ask for help. It's that finking shame thing.
Worms in wood make little tunnels. I feel full of them, full! I can't see them, don't know where they lead or what purpose they serve. It feels like I am doing things, reacting in ways to therapy that I do not understand. That I am afraid again to understand, and now it feels like Iam going to be exposed to really painful things and I won't have the help of my T.
Am I being manipulative? Am I doing these things, saying these things, screwing around without knowing it, just to get some need met - a need I can't even see that I have, or admit to myself that I have?
I am chasing my tail. It's only now that I am sitting down to try to figure this out. I've left it alone for several weeks. I need to be coherant on Monday, though.
And oh God, an old lover who has remained a friend for the past 25 years wants to visit with his son and his son's mother, who is my friend's lover, and I ... I am not sure I could handle it. I've seen him a few times in the past few years, he's stayed with my husband and I, and it's been very nice, but the "other woman" things might make me nuts, and I really feel the need to talk with my T about this and feel I can't, that all our time will be taken with this other stuff, but I need to let my friend know, asap, if I'll be able to receive him, his lover and their son (they don't live in the same country as I do or as each other - it's a weird story). And if they do come, I'll really want the support of my T.
This is so finking hard.
I am hoping for some of your usual thoughtful responses. Thank you.
ShortE
Posted by crazy teresa on July 17, 2005, at 0:27:35
In reply to me again - next session in 2 days, posted by Shortelise on July 16, 2005, at 23:19:31
I think the situation you descibed would be too hard on a good day, let alone with all you're dealing with. I would tell him you'd love to have dinner with all of them, but it would not be a good time for them to stay with you. Maybe offer to pay for a hotel room for a couple of days for them. Your mental well-being is more important than where they end up staying.
crazy t
Posted by Dinah on July 17, 2005, at 8:54:19
In reply to me again - next session in 2 days, posted by Shortelise on July 16, 2005, at 23:19:31
I agree with the idea of a hotel, FWIW. But then, we almost never have houseguests. Sooo stressful.
Please don't beat yourself up so much for this. It wasn't fair of your therapist to be so rough on you. If you think of it as leaving home, it's appropriate for behavior to go through different stages as the child separates from the family. But more than that, your therapist is behaving differently and that in itself can cause a strong reaction when you're used to consistency.
I wish I had something brilliant to tell you. Not knowing how the parameters of the relationship had changed would distress me, and I guess I'd try to clarify what he expected of me, and what he thought the relationship should or would be.
((((ShortE))))
Posted by Poet on July 17, 2005, at 13:10:33
In reply to me again - next session in 2 days, posted by Shortelise on July 16, 2005, at 23:19:31
Hi ShortE,
It sounds to me like your T has some self esteem issues, but he'd probably be offended if you told him that.
I think you have a right to be confused. You aren't supposed to hide feelings in therapy, yet, your therapist seems to expect an apology for you expressing yours.
I totally understand the finking shame of asking for help, especially after you walked out. You're conflicted. It's like me and meds, and pdocs talking to my T. I don't want their help, but maybe I need their help.
> I also feel like saying, hey, it's ok, I can go now, and I'll be ok. But then, I have this feeling in my body, this really hard to stand feeling, like sadness, but like impotence too. Helplessness. Frustration. Capitulation.
I think you should tell him what you wrote above. It's what you are feeling. It's why you think you need to see him again.
I wouldn't bring up his being offended about what you said to him, unless he does, which unfortunately he probably will. Maybe you can just say that you were angry and couldn't keep it inside any longer.
I think that Dinah is right that your old lover and family should stay at a hotel. You're under enough stress with seeing your T again without adding the stress of houseguests. You'll still be able to spend time with them, but not have to worry about having them stay with you.
Let us know how it goes with your T. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
Poet
Posted by Shortelise on July 18, 2005, at 13:08:56
In reply to Re: me again - next session in 2 days » Shortelise, posted by crazy teresa on July 17, 2005, at 0:27:35
The friends aren't coming until Christmas.
Thanks for the idea.
ShortE
Posted by Shortelise on July 18, 2005, at 13:10:21
In reply to Re: me again - next session in 2 days » Shortelise, posted by Dinah on July 17, 2005, at 8:54:19
I wonder if I could ask him what he expects of me. I wonder if he wouldn't say I was asking him to "do the work" if I asked that.
Four hours and counting.
SHortE
Posted by Shortelise on July 18, 2005, at 19:13:05
In reply to me again - next session in 2 days, posted by Shortelise on July 16, 2005, at 23:19:31
we talked and talked. I said what I needed to say and he heard me. He said what he needed to and I think I heard him.
He doesn't bill when I walk out!! This is socialized medicine - I thought as long as I showed up for the session, he could bill. And maybe he can, I don't know, but he doesn't. I feel really guilty about that. Needless to say, this is not the first time I have walked out of a session. THe first time in a few years, yes.
He says he doesn't want to be the apologetic nurturer he was for so long, communicating on the wave length of my child self. He wants us to talk things through on a higher level - not exactly what he said but the inside of my head is like a washing machine with all those words and feelings and thoughts swishing in circles.
It's ok now. I feel better. I feel he did hear me, and that he understands, and I understand better.
I am so tired, want to just sleep, and let my dreams do some of the work for me. For the past five weeks, I have bee ignoring my dreams, barely remembering them, letting them slip away. And I want my mother, want to lean against the safety of someone who loves me, the way I smell, the way my hair curls, and who remembers my toes as tiny pink things she loved to kiss.
WOuld that there were perfect love.
There was something else really important that he said, but I can't seem to remember it. It was so important. I hate that, when I can't remember something because I may not quite be ready for it.
Ah, yes, he said he thinks that this is coming from a feeling of being abandonned, fear of it. I am so unaware of that, though one of you wise souls here said the same thing. Am I in denial about this? If so, why?
Thanks for bearing with me so kindly.
ShortE
Posted by Shortelise on July 18, 2005, at 19:18:23
In reply to Re: me again - next session in 2 days » Shortelise, posted by Poet on July 17, 2005, at 13:10:33
Poet, I wrote a long response to your reponse and I somehow lost it. Forgive me for not writing it again - and thanks for writing.
BTW, he didn't seem to expect an apology and I didn't offer one. We didn't talk about the nasty things I said about him. I didn't even mention the fact that I knew he was really mad.
He says I'm still black and white.
I just want to live a nice, interesting and fairly balanced life.
Sh*t, Poet, it's so hard to to see myself with any kind of clarity at all.
ShortE
Posted by annierose on July 18, 2005, at 19:31:15
In reply to It's all ok now, posted by Shortelise on July 18, 2005, at 19:13:05
So glad that it went extremely well. And yes, don't you just hate it when they say something very important or you have one of those "aahhh" moments, and then it slips through your fingers.
Drat!! Maybe it will come back to you when your brain settles.Talking on a higher level ... that's nice. I like it when my T and I engage in that sort of conversation. Feels very satisfying.
When do you see him again? Another month? Will it be hard to wait?
Congratulations again on all your hard work,
Annierose
Posted by Shortelise on July 18, 2005, at 19:45:35
In reply to Re: It's all ok now » Shortelise, posted by annierose on July 18, 2005, at 19:31:15
Yes, a month - too long. Now that I feel a little reconnected, I feel like talking more.
Thanks, Annierose, for the congratulations. It was hard, made me cry. Maybe I'll be nice to myself for a few days.
ShortE
Posted by jammerlich on July 18, 2005, at 21:53:40
In reply to It's all ok now, posted by Shortelise on July 18, 2005, at 19:13:05
(((((Shorte)))))
I'm so happy for you that things are feeling better. It sounds like you both worked so hard and that must feel satisfying.
What he said about being an apologetic nurturer and wanting to talk on a higher level has got me to thinking. I'm wondering if it has to be either-or? If it does, that makes me sad. It seems to me that in order to be a truly whole person, we have to accept *all* parts of ourselves - whether they are childlike or all grown up. So that means that we'll have moments where we need nurturing and moments where we need the higher level stuff.
That's what scares me about therapy in general. From my own experience (and according to a lot of what I read here), it seems like T's can start off very nurturing and then come to a point where they shut all that off and expect grown-up and self-sufficient all the time. In my mind, *that* is what looks all black and white. And that is what makes me afraid I'm going to "lose" something or be abandoned. I think it would make more sense if they sprinkled therapy with both all along, so that there was never some big change or loss. It just seems more like how real life is and more conducive to this interdependency thing I keep hearing about.
And what you said about your mother and loving to kiss your pink toes has me weeping. Do you feel like she loved you that way? I think that is beautiful and I must admit that I'm a little envious.
Posted by annierose on July 18, 2005, at 22:14:54
In reply to Re: It's all ok now » Shortelise, posted by jammerlich on July 18, 2005, at 21:53:40
Jammerlich -
I don't think it has to be "either or". I feel with my T both levels of communication are present, sometimes in the same session. Sometimes after talking something through, she'll comment, "wow, you really feel things at a deep level" (not in a condesending way).
Posted by daisym on July 24, 2005, at 0:34:39
In reply to It's all ok now, posted by Shortelise on July 18, 2005, at 19:13:05
I'm late here, but I wanted to say that I think you are amazing. You've struggled through one of the more difficult things I've read here...and I think it is going to turn out OK. It won't be painfree and it sounds like there is work to do about ending vs. being abandoned, but still...You should be proud of yourself for not just quitting. You fought for this really important relationship. Perhaps it has to exist now on a different level but that is OK. It is different, not worse or better. I know this in some ways makes you miss him more, but it is a good thing that you want to talk to him.
Good for YOU!
Hugs, Daisy
This is the end of the thread.
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