![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by LittleGirlLost on July 8, 2005, at 10:07:43
Hello,
I really need help figuring out what I am feeling.
A few months ago, T told me she would be on vacation the first week in July. (Background on how we deal with vacations) In the past, she would never tell me where she was going; and I was always too afraid to ask. However, last time she went away, I asked and she told me - Just the state and I didn't question more specifically, it was good enough for me. Anyway... So a few months ago when she told me about this trip, I asked her where she was going. She paused, then said that she would tell me if I told her all of my feelings about it. So we talked about my feelings, the session ended, and I walked out without an answer! I was afraid to ask again, but wanted an answer.... At the next session, I brought it up! (Yay me!) I told her that she said she would tell me, and she didn't. She apologized and said she was glad I brought it up again. So she asked, "where do you think I might be going?" Ugh! How do I even answer that! So I said, Florida? No. California? No. I think at that point, I figured nothing was further away than California, so I was safe! (We live on the east coast.) Somehow that led me to talk about distance. I remember telling her that I thought I would worry more if she was far away as opposed to staying somewhat local. We did talk about that, but I also remember saying that I would worry regardless. Needless to say, that session ended and I still did not know where she was going! At this point, because I said I also worry (probably more) about distance, and the fact that she still didn't tell me even though she said she would, I was convinced she was going to Europe. I never brought it up again.
So I saw her last week, and decided not to ask again. I hate asking questions to begin with. I saw her on Thursday and asked when she was leaving. She said Tuesday and coming home late Sunday. (I thought for a second that that didn't seem long enough to go to Europe now, so I was somewhat relieved.) I was glad she wasn't leaving till Tuesday because that gave me a chance to call her after seeing her on Thursday. (I usually do call.)
I've been doing okay for the most part. Really trying to remind myself that she deserves a vacation, doesn't go away much, and has never missed a session for any other reason. However, after hearing the news about London yesterday, I panicked! What if she's there? See, this is why I like to know! I was in a complete panic, convincing myself more and more that she was there. I didn't know what to do now, or how to get reassurance. Then I remembered.... She didn't give me the name of anyone covering for her this time, but last year she did. Of course I kept his number! I was afraid to call, but I really had to know. So I called him. I felt weird. I told him who I was and that I was worried because I didn't ask where she was going, I feared she might have gone to London. He was so nice, and totally understood my feelings. Without a moment's hesitation, he told me she went to Germany. We talked for a minute and I said that I worry about her week to week, and moreso when she goes away, and especially after hearing the news. He totally validated my feelings and said it was normal when someone is such an important part of my life. I forget what else he said, but he was really nice! I was worried because I didn't think I'd feel comfortable talking to a man!
Oh I'm sorry this is so long!
Now for the confused feelings part.
I can't get clear on what I felt after I hung up with him. Sure I was relieved, but I was moreso sad, and angry! I don't really understand why though! I should be relieved she isn't in London, and happy that hopefully she is enjoying herself. So where does the sadness and anger come in? Maybe that she left to begin with. But I guess I felt jealous(?) that he knew where she was but I didn't? Why he told me and she didn't. Who knows, maybe I'm even jealous of the people who went with her! This doesn't even sound rational, but why would she leave when it's so dangerous! What if she got hurt? Is it not safe to like someone? (I never thought so anyway.) Ugh! I'm confused about my feelings! I need help, clarification, anything. Please!I had no idea this would get so long, sorry!
lgl
Posted by daisym on July 8, 2005, at 11:03:24
In reply to Need help figuring out feelings..... please?, posted by LittleGirlLost on July 8, 2005, at 10:07:43
LGL ---
You've clearly written so many things that I was feeling the past two weeks. I think we work so hard to let our therapist become part of our inner lives, we share so much, that it does feel dangerous when they are out of sight. It is the youngest, most vulnerable parts saying, "hey, what about me?!" There is an explanation offered by self-psychologists that basically (simplistically put here) suggests that when we "do" deep therapy work, we strip away the false constructs of our self and begin to look for our authentic core. But the process of doing that is very painful, because you have to sort out what is real and what is part of your fake front, or emotional armor. Once you've broken down things, you need to rebuild your core and then your constructs. But you can't walk around without any core self, so we "borrow" our therapist's core, their strength and we soak up reassurance that they will keep us together until we can keep ourselves together. It feels horrible to be so fragmented as we work through this process.
Since you are in the middle (for lack of a better word) having your therapist leave (and take her stabalizing core with her) DOES feel dangerous and painful. I think it makes us wonder how long we can hold ourselves together without more therapist glue and we feel shakier and shakier. And then we worry.
Don't get me wrong. I think we also worry because we feel genuine affection and love for them. But we love other people and we don't feel like it is nearly a life and death issue when they go away for a little while. This has absolutely nothing to do with being rational. It is a self-core issue, feeling like a big part of you went missing...and essentially it did.
I think you were very brave to call her backup therapist. And I'm glad he was honest with you. I think she should have told you where she was going if she said she would, even if she knew you would worry that it was far away. It is my experience that our imaginations are so much more damaging than the truth. So your anger is justified. The sadness is probably a mix of missing her and having her "real life" so in your face. When you bump up against those boundaries, you do feel bruised.
It sounds like you have a lot to talk about. When do you see her again? Keep posting if it helps. I can really sympathize with your feelings. But if you think about it, at least you found out that her backup is someone nice and easy to talk to, should you need to call again.
Hang in there.
Daisy(Hey, and Ca is not THAT far away...)
Posted by GreySkyEyes on July 8, 2005, at 12:47:35
In reply to Re: Need help figuring out feelings..... please?, posted by daisym on July 8, 2005, at 11:03:24
> I think we work so hard to let our therapist become part of our inner lives, we share so much, that it does feel dangerous when they are out of sight. It is the youngest, most vulnerable parts saying, "hey, what about me?!" There is an explanation offered by self-psychologists that basically (simplistically put here) suggests that when we "do" deep therapy work, we strip away the false constructs of our self and begin to look for our authentic core. But the process of doing that is very painful, because you have to sort out what is real and what is part of your fake front, or emotional armor. Once you've broken down things, you need to rebuild your core and then your constructs. But you can't walk around without any core self, so we "borrow" our therapist's core, their strength and we soak up reassurance that they will keep us together until we can keep ourselves together. It feels horrible to be so fragmented as we work through this process.
>Wow, Daisy, that's an amazing explanation! I've been feeling lost without my T this week, and couldn't figure out why. But that makes so much sense! My therapy lately has been focused on how emotionally withdrawn my parents were, and I've come to so many realizations as to how far back the dysfunction goes and how deeply it has affected me. In effect, I've had to strip down my constructs, as you said. And yes there is that feeling that I'm not emotionally whole right now... but she is always there to validate everything I'm feeling and metaphorically hold my hand through the painful journey to rebuild. So her leaving is like pulling her hand away, no matter how temporarily, and like a small child I'm unsteady without that support.
Sorry for going off-course here, Daisy's response set off so many blazing light bulbs...
LGL, I totally empathize and agree, you were so brave to call the backup T. I could never bring myself to call my T's backup. Yay that she wasn't in London, and she'll be back before you know it. :)
Hugs to both of you (if you don't mind),
gse
Posted by cricket on July 8, 2005, at 13:03:45
In reply to Re: Need help figuring out feelings..... please?, posted by daisym on July 8, 2005, at 11:03:24
But you can't walk around without any core self, so we "borrow" our therapist's core, their strength and we soak up reassurance that they will keep us together until we can keep ourselves together. It feels horrible to be so fragmented as we work through this process.
>
Daisy, I agree with Greyskyeyes. That was a great explanation. My therapist was trying to explain something similar to this a while ago, but I think you did a better job, or maybe I can just hear better in Babble. Of course, I haven't really gotten to that point with my therapist but at least I understand a bit better what his goal is.LGL - My therapist is on vacation too. Don't know where he is :( Hopefully not London.
Posted by LittleGirlLost on July 8, 2005, at 14:57:20
In reply to Re: Need help figuring out feelings..... please?, posted by daisym on July 8, 2005, at 11:03:24
Daisy,
Thank you so much for your response. Very thoughtful and insightful! These feelings are definitely at my core, which I am sure makes it feel that much worse. And like you said, it DOES feel "life or death" when she is not around whereas with other people it's a different kind of worry. I can understand and relate to so much of what you said, but I'm not even sure I feel comfortable having all these feelings. It's like I am making her into a mommy, but what if she doesn't like that? Truthfully, I understand it all and know it's part of the process, and I know she likes working with that aspect as she is psychodynamic, but I guess I don't like to admit just how intense the feelings are, ya know?
> I think you were very brave to call her backup therapist. And I'm glad he was honest with you.
Thanks! I hope so! I'm surprised I called, but I felt desperate. I just worry that I did something "bad" though since she didn't actually give me his number and say he was covering. She gave it to me once last year. I think we both knew I would never call someone else, so I don't mind that she didn't give me the contact name this time. But I do feel bad for doing it on my own.
> The sadness is probably a mix of missing her and having her "real life" so in your face. When you bump up against those boundaries, you do feel bruised.
Yes.... :( ouch!
And today I feel something like.... Look how close you came to getting hurt, or even worse! How can you do that to me!
Ohnooo, now I still have to worry she has a safe flight back. The good thing is, I asked her if she would call me when she gets back and she said she would. I think that's cool. :)
> It sounds like you have a lot to talk about. When do you see her again? Keep posting if it helps. I can really sympathize with your feelings. But if you think about it, at least you found out that her backup is someone nice and easy to talk to, should you need to call again.Thanks so much Daisy. I see her next Thursday. I feel a little weird... I wonder what we will talk about. I mean, sure I will tell her how I was worried, but I don't know about the rest. I'm still confused about the associated feelings.
Have to run; I'm at work.
~LGL
Posted by Tamar on July 8, 2005, at 18:55:35
In reply to Re: Need help figuring out feelings..... please?, posted by LittleGirlLost on July 8, 2005, at 14:57:20
I agree: Daisy's post was excellent!
> Ohnooo, now I still have to worry she has a safe flight back. The good thing is, I asked her if she would call me when she gets back and she said she would. I think that's cool. :)I'm glad she's going to call. And statistically air travel is the safest way to get anywhere. Much safer than dirving.
> Thanks so much Daisy. I see her next Thursday. I feel a little weird... I wonder what we will talk about. I mean, sure I will tell her how I was worried, but I don't know about the rest. I'm still confused about the associated feelings.
She's clearly interested in exploring how you feel about her going away, and where she is going and so on. So I'm sure it's OK to tell her that you phoned her colleague and that he told you where she was. It's especially understandable in view of the bombs in London. After the events of 9/11, the recent attacks in London can elicit a lot of terrifying emotions. Who wouldn't be distressed at the possibility that their therapist was unsafe?
I hope she calls you as soon as she gets home! I'm sure you'll feel more secure when she's back.
Tamar
Posted by Daisym on July 8, 2005, at 19:08:36
In reply to Re: Need help figuring out feelings..... please?, posted by LittleGirlLost on July 8, 2005, at 14:57:20
******but I guess I don't like to admit just how intense the feelings are, ya know?*****
Yes, I know. I totally know. I think I cried through most of my session yesterday admitting how intensely I missed him and how hard it was to "survive" the two weeks he was away. AND I rail against just "surviving" it...
It is such a painful thing. But I've been thinking about yesterday's session a lot and while there are some hard decisions for me to make, I do realize that being able to truly be honest about how difficult it was for me, is growth. And to let the emotions out, to be that raw and vulnerable with him, when it was about him, is huge. Because most of my life I've been trained to never, ever, ever, reveal anything that has the potential to make someone else feel bad, especially if it was with regards to my feelings. You swallow hurt feelings, you don't discuss them! I didn't do it perfectly, there were lots of "I'm sorry" and lots of trying to take some of it back, "I'm just being silly" -- but mostly I let the build up of emotions wash out. And he didn't get mad, or drown in my tears, he said he felt bad that I had such a rough time and he was glad I told him.
That is my really long winded way of saying that I'm sure your therapist will understand your grief and worry and that it will help if you share it with her. And I strongly doubt that she will think you did something "bad" -- she will be pleased that you were so resourceful in taking care of yourself. I can't imagine how distraught you would have been for more than a week if you hadn't called. So don't worry.
I wish it was easier on you than this. I'll hold your hand until Thursday if you want.
Daisy
Posted by Jen Star on July 8, 2005, at 20:30:16
In reply to Need help figuring out feelings..... please?, posted by LittleGirlLost on July 8, 2005, at 10:07:43
I'm sorry you're feeling upset! I would be too, in the same circumstances. I'm glad she was not in London, though - that is a big relief.
It seems frustrating that she agreed to tell you, and must have had some inkling of what it meant to you, but then teased you (sort of, in the therapeutic kind of way!) and you never got the answer from her. To ME, that seems kind of mean.
Making you guess is weird and silly and if she does that, she should tell you right away if you're right or wrong! Sorry if I'm beign too hard on her; I don't know her at all and of course I'm just thinking of how I would feel and act in the same situation.
I guess I'd feel dissed, in your shoes -- like you went out on a limb by asking, but then she didn't even answer you. She should tell you where she's going, or be upfront and say "I'm not comfortable sharing such personal details about my life with clients, but I assure you I'll be safe and careful, and I hope that you have a great time here while I'm away." (or something like that!)
Hmmmmm. Do you think you'll bring it up for discussion when she returns? Do you think you'll tell her that you called, and about your feelings when you heard it was Germany?
Have a great weekend!
JenStar
Posted by LittleGirlLost on July 8, 2005, at 22:18:07
In reply to Re: Need help figuring out feelings..... please? » LittleGirlLost, posted by Tamar on July 8, 2005, at 18:55:35
> I'm glad she's going to call. And statistically air travel is the safest way to get anywhere. Much safer than dirving.
True.... but to be honest, I just worry about her leaving her house!
> She's clearly interested in exploring how you feel about her going away, and where she is going and so on. So I'm sure it's OK to tell her that you phoned her colleague and that he told you where she was. It's especially understandable in view of the bombs in London. After the events of 9/11, the recent attacks in London can elicit a lot of terrifying emotions. Who wouldn't be distressed at the possibility that their therapist was unsafe?I agree with you, Tamar, and I will definitely talk to her about it. Last time she went away, I told her that one reason I wanted to know where she was going (as silly as this may sound) is so that I can watch the weather forcast for that area. For some reason, if I can look on a map, it's easier to "see" her, and if I know the weather there, then I feel connected. I didn't know that this time. But you're absolutely right about 9/11 and now the bombings in London make me worry all the more. Part of me is so angry and just wants to say, "See! Now this is why I need to know where you are!" Ugh... I could never allow myself to say it though.
> I hope she calls you as soon as she gets home! I'm sure you'll feel more secure when she's back.
Thanks Tamar. Though I'll still have to wait till Thursday to actually see her which will still feel like an eternity.
lgl
Posted by LittleGirlLost on July 8, 2005, at 22:31:58
In reply to Re: Need help figuring out feelings..... please? » LittleGirlLost, posted by Daisym on July 8, 2005, at 19:08:36
> I totally know. I think I cried through most of my session yesterday admitting how intensely I missed him and how hard it was to "survive" the two weeks he was away. AND I rail against just "surviving" it...
I know exactly how you feel! It does feel like survival, and I can't tell you how many times I've called her after a session, feeling very little, and asking her if I was going to die - because it felt like it. I told her it felt like I was too little to be left all alone and that I thought I was going to die. Ugggh! And it's not just vacations, I go through this week after week. Sometimes I worry and wonder if it's all worth it. Especially if something happened to her! Why is it so scary to be attached to someone? To need them, and even (can I say this?) love them?
I really admire how you were able to share your true feelings with your T. I have yet to cry. She knows I want to sometimes, but also knows how afraid I am. I think it's wonderful that you were able to! I'm actually jealous.
> Because most of my life I've been trained to never, ever, ever, reveal anything that has the potential to make someone else feel bad, especially if it was with regards to my feelings. You swallow hurt feelings, you don't discuss them!
Wow, we must be related. Same here.
(And I'm glad at how well he handled your pain.)> That is my really long winded way of saying that I'm sure your therapist will understand your grief and worry and that it will help if you share it with her. And I strongly doubt that she will think you did something "bad" -- she will be pleased that you were so resourceful in taking care of yourself. I can't imagine how distraught you would have been for more than a week if you hadn't called. So don't worry.
Thanks... And you're right; I'm sure she will understand, but I always worry that because I don't cry or really show any emotion, does she really get an accurate picture of what I'm experiencing? Sometimes she'll ask, and I say yes, because I truly believe she understands, but I tell her to multiply it by 100, 1000, etc. for the emotions that I cannot express.
> I wish it was easier on you than this. I'll hold your hand until Thursday if you want.Thank you Daisy; I really need it. Okay if I hug you? ((((Daisy))))
lgl
Posted by LittleGirlLost on July 8, 2005, at 22:43:20
In reply to Re: Need help figuring out feelings..... please? » LittleGirlLost, posted by Jen Star on July 8, 2005, at 20:30:16
> It seems frustrating that she agreed to tell you, and must have had some inkling of what it meant to you, but then teased you (sort of, in the therapeutic kind of way!) and you never got the answer from her. To ME, that seems kind of mean.
I understand what you are saying, but I really don't think she meant any harm. She was probably trying to protect me because it seems that she was going to tell me up until I started talking about distance making me worry more, the further away it was.
> I guess I'd feel dissed, in your shoes -- like you went out on a limb by asking, but then she didn't even answer you. She should tell you where she's going, or be upfront and say "I'm not comfortable sharing such personal details about my life with clients, but I assure you I'll be safe and careful, and I hope that you have a great time here while I'm away." (or something like that!)I see what you are saying. But like I said above, I think she was either trying to protect me, or it's possible she forgot because when I brought it up the second time, she did apologize and seemed embarrassed for not telling me initially. I think she just wanted to give me a chance first to explore all of my feelings which is something I have trouble with, so when I started going in a different direction (by talking about distance) it slipped both our minds (I think) because I didn't actually realize it at the time either.
> Hmmmmm. Do you think you'll bring it up for discussion when she returns? Do you think you'll tell her that you called, and about your feelings when you heard it was Germany?I will. (Or at least I'll try!) No, I will make myself do it. I just feel bad about my feelings though. I mean, as a rational adult, I want to be happy for her! She deserves to take a vacation. I mean, I get more vacation time than she takes, and she's in private practice! So I realize I am lucky in that respect. I want to be happy for her. That's the type of person I am; when I'm a rational adult... I just don't feel that way now, and I feel guilty about that.
Thanks for your input JenStar, I appreciate your feedback even though it was a different angle. :)
lgl
Posted by Jen Star on July 9, 2005, at 13:06:13
In reply to Re: Need help figuring out feelings..... please? » Jen Star, posted by LittleGirlLost on July 8, 2005, at 22:43:20
I'm glad to be wrong! :) It sounds like you do have a strong bond with your T. I also know what it's like to worry about other people...sometimes when my family is flying places, I get a little nervous and wait for the plane to land safely.
I hope you guys have a good & fruitful discussion about it later!
take care,
JenStar
Posted by LadyBug on July 9, 2005, at 13:28:45
In reply to Re: Need help figuring out feelings..... please? » LittleGirlLost, posted by Tamar on July 8, 2005, at 18:55:35
I remember the times when my therapist has gone away. It's been a lot of times over the 8 1/2 years I've been seeing her. I would ask where she was going because I needed the reasurrance of knowing where she'd be. I remember that even the weekends were hard for me because I knew where she was during the week as she was in her office. On the weekend, she was free to be wherever she wanted to be. I would panic each Friday. It took us some work to get through this. Do you know what she did for me? She wrote me a note on some special note paper and mailed it out to me on Friday so I'd get in on Sat. I would carry her note in my pocket all weekend and sometimes until I saw her again. She did that for over a year!!! Without fail! It helped me know she was there for me even though I didn't know where she was exactly. It helped me trust that I'd see her again.
A few years ago, she went to London. We talked about it before she left. I knew I felt more unsure since she was leaving the country. I gave her a small gold heart to take with her. She kept it in one of the lavender envelopes she used to mail her notes to me in. And she kept it in her purse while she was gone. I knew a part of me was with her while she was away. When she returned, she gave it back. To this day, I have the gold heart on my key chain as a reminder.
I'm glad you had the courage to call her back up. I wouldn't have the courage to do that. I'm sure glad he told you where she was. It had to feel better to know. I'm glad she is calling you when she get's back. Mine did that a few times too. Now I know I can call her voice mail and when she changes it from being away to her normal one, I know she's back and safe.
I think this is growth for you. It will get better for you with time.
Continuity is so important in therapy. It sounds like you have a good therapist. I'm here for you if you need it.LadyBug
Posted by daisym on July 9, 2005, at 14:21:03
In reply to Re: Need help figuring out feelings..... please? » Daisym, posted by LittleGirlLost on July 8, 2005, at 22:31:58
*****I know exactly how you feel! It does feel like survival, and I can't tell you how many times I've called her after a session, feeling very little, and asking her if I was going to die - because it felt like it. I told her it felt like I was too little to be left all alone and that I thought I was going to die. Ugggh! And it's not just vacations, I go through this week after week. Sometimes I worry and wonder if it's all worth it. Especially if something happened to her! Why is it so scary to be attached to someone? To need them, and even (can I say this?) love them?*****
I had this weird experience last night as I was reading your post -- of feeling intensely young and lost and sad. Like you said, too young to be on my own. It didn't help that a video was on TV of "Concrete Angel". I haven't felt so intensely young, wanting to cry out for my therapist (where are you?!), in weeks. When I feel this way, I bounce between intense embarrassment and intense longing to stop struggling, and call him.
I know the historical reasons it is scary to get so attached to anyone. Intellectally I can tell myself they don't apply here. But this doesn't really help, does it? I wish I knew what the right answer was/is. Is the way through this to MAKE yourself sit with the feelings and then they will go away? Does admitting them and giving in to them make them worse? How exactly does one work through this stuff? I've tried to let myself move toward reaching out and sharing this fear and hurt more. It didn't seem to make it better. Of course, I want everything to happen quickly, like right now!
I was surprised that you wrote that you can't cry with your therapist. You seem so attached and comfortable with her. Is crying hard for you in general? When I was young tears were really against the rules. I would spend a great deal of energy fighting them off in therapy, retreating into silence. But my therapist helped me a lot with this, he would say, "isn't it OK to cry here?" and my response was usually, "it is against the rules and not productive." His response was "the rules are different here, you need to cry and I want to see your tears." I needed this overt permission. I still fall back into fighting them off, often out of frustration, but I allow them more now. Maybe you can talk about crying when you don't actually feel like crying as a way to gain your own permission.
I want you to know that this conversation is really helping me clarify my own feelings. It is confusing to want something so much and yet not want it at all. Naming it hasn't helped. Fighting it hasn't helped either. I'm at a loss as to what to try now.
I hope your weekend is going well.
Posted by LittleGirlLost on July 11, 2005, at 14:48:15
In reply to Re: Need help figuring out feelings..... please?, posted by LadyBug on July 9, 2005, at 13:28:45
> I remember that even the weekends were hard for me because I knew where she was during the week as she was in her office. On the weekend, she was free to be wherever she wanted to be. I would panic each Friday. It took us some work to get through this.
Yes, I experience the exact same thing! I see her on Thursday night. It (the feelings) starts when I leave, and by Friday, I feel as if I will die. Sadness, panic, missing her, feeling so young and little and alone. She lets me call her, and I usually do on Friday. Sometimes I try to wait it out and will call on Saturday or Sunday. By Monday I'm usually better, and continue to get better (usually) until I see her again and the cycle starts all over. Why is this SO hard?!
>Do you know what she did for me? She wrote me a note on some special note paper and mailed it out to me on Friday so I'd get in on Sat. I would carry her note in my pocket all weekend and sometimes until I saw her again. She did that for over a year!!! Without fail! It helped me know she was there for me even though I didn't know where she was exactly. It helped me trust that I'd see her again.
That is SO awesome; I love it. How great of her to do that for you! So have things gotten better for you? Sometimes I wonder if I will ever feel better about this.
> I knew I felt more unsure since she was leaving the country. I gave her a small gold heart to take with her. She kept it in one of the lavender envelopes she used to mail her notes to me in. And she kept it in her purse while she was gone. I knew a part of me was with her while she was away. When she returned, she gave it back. To this day, I have the gold heart on my key chain as a reminder.
Ohhhh, I love that you did that. Wish I would have thought of something like that! "I" told her that I wanted to give her my favorite doll to take with her (we take her to therapy sometimes), but said I couldn't because I'd miss her too much. lol
> I think this is growth for you. It will get better for you with time.
Thanks, I sure hope so. Sometimes I really wonder if I can do this.
> Continuity is so important in therapy. It sounds like you have a good therapist. I'm here for you if you need it.
Thank you so much, LadyBug; I really appreciate it. :)
lgl
Posted by LittleGirlLost on July 11, 2005, at 15:19:33
In reply to Re: Need help figuring out feelings..... please?, posted by daisym on July 9, 2005, at 14:21:03
> When I feel this way, I bounce between intense embarrassment and intense longing to stop struggling, and call him.
Same here. I try to ride it out too; I never really know what to do i.e. call right away, or try and wait. My therapist tells me I needn't torture myself like that and I should just call when I feel like it. Ugghh... I wish it were that easy!
> I know the historical reasons it is scary to get so attached to anyone. Intellectally I can tell myself they don't apply here. But this doesn't really help, does it? I wish I knew what the right answer was/is. Is the way through this to MAKE yourself sit with the feelings and then they will go away? Does admitting them and giving in to them make them worse? How exactly does one work through this stuff? I've tried to let myself move toward reaching out and sharing this fear and hurt more. It didn't seem to make it better. Of course, I want everything to happen quickly, like right now!
(((Daisy))) I know what you mean, and I feel the same way. I have the same questions as you, but unfortunately, no answers here either. :(
> I was surprised that you wrote that you can't cry with your therapist. You seem so attached and comfortable with her. Is crying hard for you in general? When I was young tears were really against the rules. I would spend a great deal of energy fighting them off in therapy, retreating into silence.
Really? It's weird, right? I mean, intellectually I know it is. No, I cannot cry with her... or with anyone really. I have great difficulty crying in general, alone even. Yes, they were not allowed when I was growing up; or they made things worse. Also, I'm embarrassed. I guess it "helps" that I'm so disconnected from my feelings also. Don't know how healthy that help is though. <g>
> But my therapist helped me a lot with this, he would say, "isn't it OK to cry here?" and my response was usually, "it is against the rules and not productive." His response was "the rules are different here, you need to cry and I want to see your tears." I needed this overt permission. I still fall back into fighting them off, often out of frustration, but I allow them more now.
That's cool. I'm glad you are able to open up like that. How long did it take you?
>Maybe you can talk about crying when you don't actually feel like crying as a way to gain your own permission.
What "funny" is that I can't even say the word cry. Sometimes when I stop myself from saying something and she asks why, I say I'm afraid; she'll ask afraid of what, and I just say I don't know... (Afraid to say, "afraid I'll cry"). One other time, I had to say the word "cry" and I was so hesitant, and told her I had to say a bad word and that it was hard for me because I shouldn't say bad words... She asked if it was a curse word, I said no, not really... So she asked me to spell it. Ugggh, no wonder I can't actually do it.
> I want you to know that this conversation is really helping me clarify my own feelings. It is confusing to want something so much and yet not want it at all. Naming it hasn't helped. Fighting it hasn't helped either. I'm at a loss as to what to try now.Thanks Daisy, It's really helping me also. In fact, it reminded me of another issue I wanted to bring up here. Just been so busy that it's hard to keep up with writing.
Ooops! Almost forgot to mention... My T is home safe. :) She called me, but I missed her call so she left a message. Sometime I like getting a message better than talking to her because I can listen to it over and over whereas sometimes I can talk to her on the phone and hang up and not remember it. Anyway, she's home. :) (Too bad I still have to wait till Thursday to see her!)
lgl
Posted by Daisym on July 11, 2005, at 20:35:27
In reply to Re: Need help figuring out feelings..... please? » daisym, posted by LittleGirlLost on July 11, 2005, at 15:19:33
I think we have the same therapist! :)
We had a whole conversation (again) today about calling vs. not calling. He makes the point that sometimes a 5 minutes phone call will provide the reassurance I need instead of wasting hours of energy not calling. I said, "I don't even know what to say sometimes, or what I need..." He said, "just say, 'AAAHHH!'" I had to laugh.
We spent a lot of time on this idea that I'm "too" attached to him, or too dependent. He reassures me that he is OK with it, and that he expects it at this point in therapy. He said that we are in deep, and we need to go deeper (yes, I shivered) and so the attachment is really necessary for stability. I am so frightened that admitting this huge need will drive him away but he shakes his head and says nope. He thinks that meeting the need makes it manageable, denying the need makes it bigger and more voracious. He said then people act out to get the hidden need met and his experience with me is that I'm much more stable and productive when I allow myself a lot of contact with him. He is right.
As far as crying goes, I guess it took me a good 9 months or so. I had to learn a whole new language to describe my feelings and then I had to learn to tolerate the feelings. The tears sort of came out as the younger parts came out. It just takes time to build that trust that you won't be rejected for your tears, or punished for them. I tried to gage my hormone levels to see if they played into crying or not, but I can't correlate it. It is really about how vulnerable I feel or what he touches. If I'm afraid or anxious, I almost never cry.
I'm so glad she is back safely and that she called! I like getting messages too, and I guess I'm lucky, because my therapist is very good at leaving them. He never sounds in a hurry and you can hear his emotions in his voice. :)
Thursday is a long time to wait but you are in the home stretch. Hang in there.
Hugs from me,
Daisy
Posted by LittleGirlLost on July 13, 2005, at 10:12:31
In reply to Re: Need help figuring out feelings..... please? » LittleGirlLost, posted by Daisym on July 11, 2005, at 20:35:27
Daisy,
I think it is wonderful that you actually talk to your T about being attached. I do feel attached, and I'm sure my T knows it, but I'm afraid to talk about it and tell her just how much. I'm embarrassed! And even though I understand it intellectually, I still feel weird about it. I've always felt rejected by my own mother, so my thinking is always, "how can someone else possibly care about you when your own mother didn't!" And I am afraid what would happen if I tell her. I don't know how to explain it...
About the phone calls - Yes, it sounds like our T's both have the same philosophy where calling is concerned. I spend so much time and energy fighting it, etc, whereas she very simply tells me that I don't have to do that to myself and I should just call! It's hard though. And like you, it's even harder when I really don't have anything to say, but just need to hear her. Then I feel stupid calling... She doesn't say much (in person or on the phone), so when there's that akward silence on the phone when all I want is to hear her voice, I just feel weird!
Interesting that you said you can't cry when you are anxious or scared. Maybe that is part of my problem. I do trust her, but I'm still afraid to cry. I also know that I am anxious often when I am there. Honestly, I don't even like talking about it... yet I want to. :(
Thanks Daisy.
lgl
Posted by LittleGirlLost on July 13, 2005, at 10:31:36
In reply to Re: Need help figuring out feelings..... please? » Daisym, posted by LittleGirlLost on July 13, 2005, at 10:12:31
:(
Nervous about seeing T tomorrow. Part of me is just happy she's back and safe. The responsible, professional adult wants to coolly welcome her back and ask her about her trip, and act as though it didn't effect me at all.
The child wants to walk in a sulk for a few minutes without speaking, then carry on about why she left me, how she could do that, tell her how worried I was, how scary and dangerous it is, etc... (Fat chance of this actually happening!)
Part of me is just angry. Angry that she left. Angry that now I am doing okay with the separation, and she comes back, I will see her tomorrow, and everything is in an uproar again... with leaving, and missing her, and everything else. I survived, I'm okay... You left, so don't bother with me.
Ugh! I think scenario #1 will play out. I just wish I had the courage to go with the others though.
~LGL
Posted by Dinah on July 13, 2005, at 20:18:30
In reply to Nervous about tomorrow, posted by LittleGirlLost on July 13, 2005, at 10:31:36
I'm glad she's home safe.
And i understand the anger.
My therapist will be gone for work for two weeks in a row the first two weeks in August. The fact that I'll also be gone that first week doesn't make my sense of outrage any less. :(
(Work, not vacation. He almost never takes vacation.)
This is the end of the thread.
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