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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by happyflower on May 6, 2005, at 21:19:57
In reply to Oh No.. How about no Ts for a change? » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 21:15:02
Sorry I am in a nutty kind of mood tonight, sorry to ruin your non t movie. I am crazy tonight. :)
Posted by happyflower on May 6, 2005, at 21:21:59
In reply to Re: Oh No.. How about no Ts for a change?, posted by happyflower on May 6, 2005, at 21:19:57
Posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 21:25:16
In reply to What's a T hat? (nm) » happyflower, posted by happyflower on May 6, 2005, at 21:21:59
I know you like your T, so feel free to bring him in. But no T ing business. He can come and enjoy simply. :-)
Posted by happyflower on May 6, 2005, at 21:57:09
In reply to Ts not acting as Ts. But simply human - like us. » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 21:25:16
So if he isn't wearing his T hat, and he is watching a movie with me, then he isn't my T, right? So we can make out, then? lol
Posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 22:08:06
In reply to Re: Ts not acting as Ts. But simply human - like us., posted by happyflower on May 6, 2005, at 21:57:09
Posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 22:20:54
In reply to As you wish :-) But Not For Me. Got over it :-) (nm) » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 22:08:06
I think, that just maybe, I am over my excessive liking towards my T.. Just maybe.. Isn't that great? Just struck me.. right now. I don't feel all that excessive need.. Suddenly dawned on me.
I think I have been foolishly hurting myself too much..I think I like him as a person a lot.. but suddenly has dawned on me that he is not my dad - he never was, and he is not my husband. And I am happy.
What just happened?
Posted by happyflower on May 6, 2005, at 22:25:28
In reply to Hmm.. What just happened? » pinkeye, posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 22:20:54
Posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 22:34:30
In reply to Must of been the music! lol (nm), posted by happyflower on May 6, 2005, at 22:25:28
Posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 23:16:55
In reply to Better be for good :-) It is about time :-) LOL (nm) » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 22:34:30
I just so enjoy your spontaneous comments :-) You deserve your name.
Posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 23:19:39
In reply to Re: Ts not acting as Ts. But simply human - like us., posted by happyflower on May 6, 2005, at 21:57:09
Well wait, what about the ethics committe? :-))To hell with them? :-)
Posted by Tamar on May 7, 2005, at 8:57:10
In reply to Hmm.. What just happened? » pinkeye, posted by pinkeye on May 6, 2005, at 22:20:54
> I think, that just maybe, I am over my excessive liking towards my T.. Just maybe.. Isn't that great? Just struck me.. right now. I don't feel all that excessive need.. Suddenly dawned on me.
>
> I think I have been foolishly hurting myself too much..I think I like him as a person a lot.. but suddenly has dawned on me that he is not my dad - he never was, and he is not my husband. And I am happy.
>
> What just happened?
Wow! That sounds like a good thing, yes? Hope it stays with you, especially the happy feeling!Tamar
Posted by pinkeye on May 7, 2005, at 15:15:38
In reply to Re: Hmm.. What just happened? » pinkeye, posted by Tamar on May 7, 2005, at 8:57:10
Thanks Tamar. I think I am getting over my transference.. but I still like my ex T.. Is that wrong? Does that mean I still have transference?
Posted by littleone on May 7, 2005, at 18:12:16
In reply to Re: Pinkeye? (very long) » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 18:45:55
Firstly, I know that children can be traumatised by watching another sibling or parent being abused (especially physically). It may be worthwhile thinking about what sort of affect it had on you to see your brother abused by your father.
Another thing is that traumatised kids will dissociate in various ways to ensure that they can separate the abusive parent into good and bad so that they can still maintain a relationship with the good part of the parent. I know you're pretty proficient at dissociating, so it may be worthwhile thinking about how that has come into play with your relationship with your dad.
Dinah, I'm am currently having a very difficult time trying to accept that my parents were (are?) abusive/neglectful. I'm kind of at the stage where I really need to sit down and consider what core beliefs are being threatened or triggered by trying to accept this.
I think you do this by saying "what would that mean to me. And then, what would that answer mean to me. And then, what would that second answer mean to me" and that's supposed to lead you to your core belief. Don't know if it actually works yet. My brain keeps glancing off all this.
But I think that's a little bit further down the acceptance road than what you are at.
Have you thought about how you would feel if your son was treated in the manner you were treated by your dad? Try to think of how it would help or harm him.
Posted by littleone on May 7, 2005, at 18:15:25
In reply to Re: Pinkeye? » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 14:49:03
> I've picked up a book on this topic from Barnes and Noble, and I'm going to sit down and read it and cogitate. But I *know* I'll never be able to think of it as anything remotely resembling abuse. I can possibly imagine thinking of it as something that has an effect on my relationships and life today. But nothing worse than that.
Posted by happyflower on May 7, 2005, at 18:40:57
In reply to Emotional Abuse » Dinah, posted by littleone on May 7, 2005, at 18:12:16
I know in my case, it was harder to see my brother getting abused, even if I was right next to him, then me getting abused. I could pretend it wasn't happening to me, but I could not pretend when I saw and heard my brother. I think sometimes seeing abuse is just as bad or worse than being directly abused.
Posted by gardenergirl on May 7, 2005, at 19:29:45
In reply to Re: Emotional Abuse » littleone, posted by happyflower on May 7, 2005, at 18:40:57
What do you think about threatened abuse? I recently was thinking about a time when I was small (grade school age, but no idea beyond that), when my dad threatened to use "the strap" on me. I distinctly remember kneeling against the edge of my bed and trying to prepare myself for the impact. I don't remember any impact. He also says that he is "so proud" (make me want to vomit) that he never had to use his belt on any of his kids.
Now remembering this, I feel like it almost would have been better if he had actually hit me. I know that sounds odd. But it seems especially cruel to take a child all the way to the point of cringing waiting for a blow and then to stop. How confusing is that?
Anyone experience anything like this? How do you feel about it? I consider this to be a form of abuse, too. It just seems so cruel and crazy-making.
I don't even remember what "bad" thing I must have done to "earn" this.
gg
Posted by Dinah on May 7, 2005, at 21:15:41
In reply to Re: Emotional Abuse, posted by gardenergirl on May 7, 2005, at 19:29:45
Sad to say, maybe that was a big step forward for him compared to his own upbringing.
That sounds like a very frightening thing to have happened. My therapist would agree with you, I think. It is a form of abuse. He always says that even though my mother didn't do anything physical all that often, her rages and unpredictability had an effect on me nevertheless.
I wasn't as good as you, gg. I remember running wildly through the house when my mother threatened me with Daddy's big thick leather western belt. And she'd have to catch me kicking and screaming to hit me. That's how I got the small scar on my upper lip.
Yeah, I'd say what your father did was abusive.
I wish they had more terms for abuse. It seems that there should be ten or twenty at least. That way I wouldn't feel so bad about claiming it. Getting hit wasn't all that unusual in the sixties.
I really ought to go easier on my mother I guess. Two of her sisters and two of her nieces and nephews have had trouble off and on with psychosis. Some more on than off. I don't know what went on in that family, but I should have some compassion for my mother as someone who is probably not quite well. But it's really really hard.
Posted by Dinah on May 7, 2005, at 21:29:47
In reply to Emotional Abuse » Dinah, posted by littleone on May 7, 2005, at 18:12:16
Daddy never was physically abusive to anyone. I imagine Mother hit my brother, but maybe not. They both expected more of me than him. I do remember her dragging him by the foot through the woods one time at a family reunion while he screamed and cried, and feeling sorry for him, and very embarassed.
To be absolutely fair, my brother did things that would make any parent very angry. I was the well behaved one who worked hard in school. But Daddy went way over the top. He was never as bad to my brother as he was to my mother. I don't ever think he said he hated him, or that he wished he was dead. And the more serious stuff he *did* say was reserved for when my brother had done something wrong. But he was pretty consistent in saying my brother would never amount to anything, was worthless, that sort of thing. I remember once, not too long ago, that Daddy made me cry with the way he talked to my brother, and I called my brother to express support. My brother was pretty calm about it. But while I like my brother well enough, I don't think I was close enough to him to really feel for him.
I know in a lot of families the kids sort of band together against the parents. But I was an only child too long for that I think. The emotional connections really seemed to run three ways, with my brother just occasionally getting a direct hit.
You know what my brother told me once though? He said that he didn't really mind Daddy yelling at him all the time, because it meant that Daddy expected better of him. Mother making excuses for him because he had "learning disabilities" hurt him a lot worse.
I suppose I ought to talk to my brother a bit more from time to time.
The book, which was recommended to me by another Babbler, was "Silently Seduced : When Parents Make their Children Partners - Understanding Covert Incest". I think I have another book lying somewhere around the house that I bought when I was newly married and my mother was at my house more often than my husband. "The Emotional Incest Syndrome : What to do When a Parent's Love Rules Your Life". I don't really remember what it said.
Posted by happyflower on May 7, 2005, at 21:58:46
In reply to Re: Emotional Abuse, posted by gardenergirl on May 7, 2005, at 19:29:45
Threatening to do harm is abuse if it caused you emotional pain. Emotional abuse absoultly
Posted by Dinah on May 7, 2005, at 22:09:49
In reply to Re: Emotional Abuse » littleone, posted by Dinah on May 7, 2005, at 21:29:47
If you looked at my mother and I together most of the time, you'd never believe the things I say.
We actually have a superficially pretty good relationship now I've emotionally divorced her.
And in her own way, she loves me.
Posted by Dinah on May 7, 2005, at 22:42:05
In reply to Oh, I'm being unfair, posted by Dinah on May 7, 2005, at 22:09:49
She's difficult, but she's not a monster. She's not as bad as Tony Soprano's mom.
I was just on the phone with her thinking "How can I say such awful things about someone who loves me so much?"
Sigh.
Posted by annierose on May 7, 2005, at 23:45:08
In reply to Oh, I'm being unfair, posted by Dinah on May 7, 2005, at 22:09:49
Dinah -
Funny you should say that: "We actually have a superficially pretty good relationship now I've emotionally divorced her."My mom called me today at work. And I realized, it's easier to listen to her stories about being too tired, too sick, too overwhelmed ... now, that I'm in therapy. Something has happened. I'm still annoyed, but at only a level 4, not a level 10.
Emotionally distancing myself has helped. I guess that is progress. Would my T agree?
Posted by annierose on May 7, 2005, at 23:48:47
In reply to Re: Emotional Abuse, posted by gardenergirl on May 7, 2005, at 19:29:45
Yes, I experienced this! I can remember pleading for him not to hit me, begging. And instead of whipping me, the belt would hit the wall. Tears would stream down my cheek.
Crazy! And like you, I can't remember what I did to deserve such hatred. I think one time it had to do with not eating something at dinner. Seriously. With my kids, that wouldn't even registered a remark. Don't like it, don't eat it.
Posted by Shortelise on May 8, 2005, at 12:09:12
In reply to Oh, I'm being unfair, posted by Dinah on May 7, 2005, at 22:09:49
But that's just it, the "in her own way" stuff.
This is very confusing.
ShortE
Posted by gardenergirl on May 8, 2005, at 12:50:45
In reply to Re: Emotional Abuse - Possible trigger » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on May 7, 2005, at 21:15:41
> Sad to say, maybe that was a big step forward for him compared to his own upbringing.
I think you are right. And thanks for adding the trigger warning. I wasn't thinking.
>
> I wasn't as good as you, gg.I was only "good" because I was too scared not to be. The most important thing to us in regards to my father, and in part my mother, was that we were "good kids". Being well-behaved was everything. It makes for being quite tentative and formal a lot of the time, now. And following rules...unless it comes to parking, I'm definitely a rules-follower. (I get really aggravated when there is nowhere to park, and I'll often park in restricted spaces if necessary.)
> I wish they had more terms for abuse. It seems that there should be ten or twenty at least. That way I wouldn't feel so bad about claiming it. Getting hit wasn't all that unusual in the sixties.
That would make it easier, I suppose. Because it's personal, and it's a continuum. And what is devastating for one might be no big deal for another.
> I really ought to go easier on my mother I guess. Two of her sisters and two of her nieces and nephews have had trouble off and on with psychosis. Some more on than off. I don't know what went on in that family, but I should have some compassion for my mother as someone who is probably not quite well. But it's really really hard.
It is really really hard to hold both compassion and hurt at the same time. I think it's a sign of healing and health if you can find compassion. It's just very very difficult to hold both concepts at the same time, because they seem to cancel each other out if you view it in very simple terms. I struggle with this, too. It's hard to think of both my parents as being quite narcissistic and emotionally neglecting, and to also feel love and connection at the same time.
gg
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