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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Susan47 on April 17, 2005, at 12:57:52
My father is a manic/depressive, has been all his life as far as anybody knows. He goes into these rages of enthusiastic behaviour, everything he says is loud, expansive, smart and close-minded ... the next day he could be so quiet, withdrawn, and foul-tempered you're afraid of him (well, you're afraid of him in his mania too, only he's much easier to make laugh .. humour becomes a lifesaver, you know?) .. anyway, he's well over sixty and I realized a few days ago that he values his manias and depressions .. he hates the depressions, but he actually has come to value these things because he feels they make him more human, somehow .. but he doesn't see how harsh and cruel he is, how he hurts everyone with his judgements and cruel behaviours, he's physically and emotionally violent ... it's so sad, he's all alone and he's angry with everyone that he's so lonely but no one wants to be near him ... and he won't go for any counselling or medication whatsoever, never. He hates the profession. He had ECT and lost some of his memory about thirty years ago ... is that right, is it ECT, the electricity to the brain? Anyway, I'm not thinking too well right now myself.
What're your parents like? How does that affect you today? Because I'm hypomanic, I can lose my temper (usually not easily, though.. it does take a lot, because I'm so afraid of my temper.. anybody's temper. It's why I married my last husband, because he seemed so even-tempered, but that was an illusion apparently) and I've been depressed but it's not NORMAL, I mean any test I take always shows that my depression is based outside myself ... this is so strange a concept but for the most part I think it is true. I dont' think I was born to be depressed. Sigh.
Posted by Susan47 on April 17, 2005, at 13:06:02
In reply to What're your parents like?, posted by Susan47 on April 17, 2005, at 12:57:52
This makes total sense. He values his manic depression because he refuses to seek treatment for it anymore .. of course, it's a self-defense mechanism to block out the fact that these treatments might actually help him but he's afraid of them. So, making it a valuable thing justifies not seeking treatment.
Our brains are incredible shysters sometimes.
Posted by Susan47 on April 17, 2005, at 17:18:57
In reply to What're your parents like?, posted by Susan47 on April 17, 2005, at 12:57:52
each other. That has to be respected. No matter what, that definitely deserves a lot of respect. Because I just realize my father gave up a whole lifestyle for her .. and she gave up everything for him..and they somehow managed to stay together. They went through an incredible amount of living. Well, they still are. They're spending a month in Paris in an apartment near the Eiffel Tower this year .. and time in Germany, of course, they go every year or so. Sigh. My children are going overseas too this year. With their father. I'm going to be so alone here. I need money, moneymoneymoney makes the world go round.
Posted by sunny10 on April 18, 2005, at 8:58:11
In reply to I just realized how much my parents love, posted by Susan47 on April 17, 2005, at 17:18:57
Posted by sunny10 on April 18, 2005, at 9:17:52
In reply to What're your parents like?, posted by Susan47 on April 17, 2005, at 12:57:52
my biological father was engaged to my mother and broke the engagement when he found out she was pregnant with me- she already had two kids from a prior marriage.
Classic father abandonment- I've never met the man. My mother went to an abortion clinic to get rid of me but my great-aunt stopped her from going through with it. My mother resented me every day of my childhood. We don't speak now.
I had a broken arm when I was six months old that supposedly I broke myself "having a temper tantrum" says mom- there were no witnesses.
My mother remarried when I was nine (met him when I was seven). He legally adopted all three of us kids. We thought it was great, until he started hitting my sister and me.
So, hmmm. abandonment, emotional neglect/hatred, and physical abuse.
That's my parents...
And, stupid me, even after 20+ yrs of off and on again therapy, that's who every SO has turned out to be, too...
Rocket science, yes??!!?? So why can't therapists actually help me to not "pick these people to try to get them to love me because my parents didn't" ??? Coping skills don't work, 'cause I still feel like a piece of sh*t that should have been aborted after all....
Posted by Susan47 on April 18, 2005, at 9:36:53
In reply to Re: money is just money (nm) » Susan47, posted by sunny10 on April 18, 2005, at 8:58:11
Sure. Uh-huh. But the lack of it means I can't get therapy when I need it. It means I can't get massages when I need them. It means I live in pain when I wouldn't have to if I had the money to do something about it. It means I don't get to work out at the gym. It means I don't get to see Europe this summer. It means I don't get to do what I really want. Which is to visit the Louvre. Uh-huh. Oh yeah.
Posted by Susan47 on April 18, 2005, at 9:42:53
In reply to Re: money is just money » sunny10, posted by Susan47 on April 18, 2005, at 9:36:53
And not just a once or twice visit either. Days on end.
Posted by Susan47 on April 18, 2005, at 9:47:29
In reply to Re: What're your parents like?, posted by sunny10 on April 18, 2005, at 9:17:52
It makes sense your mother resented you, although it isn't right. That's what happens when men abandon women they've made pregnant. It's either get an abortion, have this child adopted, or raise it and be constantly reminded of the *sshole who broke your heart, your soul, your spirit. That's not fair to ANY CHILD. It's not right, but it's happened to me. One of the reasons I held men in great disdain. Maybe I still do to a great extent. It's why a sensitive, loving man seems like an oxymoron.
Posted by Dinah on April 18, 2005, at 9:57:52
In reply to Re: What're your parents like?, posted by sunny10 on April 18, 2005, at 9:17:52
While I see a sensitive, perceptive, and intelligent person who brings a lot to this board, and I can't believe also doesn't bring a lot to the world around her.
Wouldn't it be great if we could see the people other people saw when they looked at us in the mirror?
I don't know you well enough to judge what sort of men you routinely pick. But it's fortunate indeed that our choice of partners doesn't reveal everything about us.
I know my husband is as happy as I am of the truth of that! :)
Posted by Susan47 on April 18, 2005, at 9:59:33
In reply to Re: What're your parents like?, posted by sunny10 on April 18, 2005, at 9:17:52
Do you think maybe your mother thinks she shouldn't be here? I wonder.
Sometimes parents act like psychopaths in their denial, don't they.
Posted by sunny10 on April 18, 2005, at 10:32:13
In reply to Sunny, posted by Susan47 on April 18, 2005, at 9:59:33
I would say that she suffers from depression, too.
When I was engaged to my ex-husband, he begged me to try to re-form the relationship, so I sent a Thanksgiving Day greeting card, 'cause that's the time of year it was... For Christmas, I received a giant box wrapped in brown paper. When I opened it up, there were a bunch of individually wrapped boxes. As I opened them, I realized that she had sent me back every gift I had ever given her for birthdays and Christmas, still in their original boxes. That's how much I meant to her...
Even my now ex-husband said she was a cruel, crazy woman and that I had given it my best shot and I was allowed to give up on ever having a normal relationship with her.
And then, about five years ago, she sent a Christmas gift through her sister and my cousin. It was the Feeling Good book. And basically the card she sent with it said that it helped her and that obviously I had mis-perceived our entire relationship and when I "get over it", feel free to contact her..... As if...
So, yes, she has admitted to suffering from depression just by saying the book helped her... although everything in the book says to "move on", "forget about the past", et cetera... Well, of course it helped HER... it lets her off the hook to ever make amends for anything. Personally, I believe relationships can only exist when people are honest... right down to admitting when they are wrong!!! Otherwise, it's superficial and what's the point...
Posted by Susan47 on April 18, 2005, at 11:54:38
In reply to Re: What're your parents like?, posted by sunny10 on April 18, 2005, at 9:17:52
You know what, Sunny? You've never ever been properly loved. I think that's a fact. And it's no wonder you feel so bad. I know how this feels. I know how it feels on the flip side, too. And I hate to say this but it might've all come from me, it might've all had to be my effort my longing and desire to be happy that made me finally get it. I am capable of loving you, Sunny. I don't know all about you, I know some, and we'll probably never meet in person, and maybe that makes it easier, I don't know. Because life is always a challenge, I'm always fighting the beast within. But I know this; that if I can feel like I can love you from all the way out here, then there're people who know you who love you, too. I hope you let someone help pull you through this, if you need to.
Posted by Susan47 on April 18, 2005, at 11:58:56
In reply to Re: Sunny, posted by sunny10 on April 18, 2005, at 10:32:13
Is this the Feeling Good book by that Burns character? Because I read about two chapters of that and just about puked. I never understood how he made it, after that. No wonder your mother went even more psycho .. the whole thing was now your responsibility. She's a bitch in her behaviour. You're an incredible fighter. You know that. You should read some oh I can't remember her name, a Canadian author, I'll think of it. Crazy mothers. oh yes.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 18, 2005, at 12:32:39
In reply to What're your parents like?, posted by Susan47 on April 17, 2005, at 12:57:52
Well, after almost 2 years of therapy, my T has "dignosed" my parents. HE thinks my Dad has Dependency Disorder as well as Asperger's Syndrome. HE thinks my MOm has Histrionic and Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
I think those are fairly accurate. I grew up with a non-responsive father who never hugged me and who likes to be taken care of 100% by the woman in his life.
My mother has been all about herself since day one, many times placing the needs of her numerous lovers before the needs of her children.
Posted by sunny10 on April 18, 2005, at 12:50:00
In reply to Re: What're your parents like?, posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 18, 2005, at 12:32:39
sounds like you had a couple of "winners", too... (sarcasm is ugly, isn't it?!?!?)
How we ever managed to even GET this old is a mystery to me...
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 18, 2005, at 13:18:52
In reply to Re: What're your parents like? » Miss Honeychurch, posted by sunny10 on April 18, 2005, at 12:50:00
Sarcasm's ugly but I LOVE it!!
Posted by sunny10 on April 18, 2005, at 13:33:23
In reply to Re: What're your parents like? » sunny10, posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 18, 2005, at 13:18:52
Posted by alexandra_k on April 20, 2005, at 4:30:37
In reply to Re: What're your parents like? » sunny10, posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 18, 2005, at 13:18:52
I used to think my Dad was wonderful 'cause he never hit me and he used to let me follow him around prattling to him and didn't get pissed with me.
My Mother was pretty messed up too.
She had me for him (she used to tell me over and over how she already had 4 kids from her first marriage but he didn't have any so she had me for him).
But he wanted a boy to 'carry on the family name'
and didn't know what to do with me...
He walked when I was 7
And my Mother make me live in my room (only allowed out for school) for the next 7 years.
Hmm.
I am fairly socially inept.
Sometimes I wonder how on earth I do as well as I do.
I guess before 7 is pretty formative and Mother didn't completely lose it till Father left.
And then there was school I suppose.
Is it any wonder 'school' is my life???
Hmm.
Now I think Father is weak and pathetic.
He wouldn't stick up to her.
He knew what she was like but he didn't want me either.
F*ck them.
Family ain't worth sh*t.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 20, 2005, at 4:31:26
In reply to Re: What're your parents like?, posted by alexandra_k on April 20, 2005, at 4:30:37
Sorry.
Stick up for me.
He wouldn't stick up for me.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 20, 2005, at 4:36:03
In reply to Re: What're your parents like?, posted by alexandra_k on April 20, 2005, at 4:31:26
Yeah.
Money is important.
People say it isn't, but that isn't so true really.
Its not that it has intrinsic value
It is what you can do with it.
Afford therapy.
Afford to live someplace nice.
Do nice things.
Live in a nice environment.
Travel.
See stuff.
Buy stuff.
Have stuff.
Is it possible for a leper starving in india to be happy?
It is much much harder - but yeah, it is possible.
And is it possible for someone poor to be happy?
It is much harder - but yeah, it is possible.
Though 'rich' and 'poor' are relative terms, of course.
But to live in a pleasant environment at least.
To have things to look foward to.
Some things money can buy.Thats where family
Family
Counts for a lot
Posted by Susan47 on April 20, 2005, at 10:18:31
In reply to Re: What're your parents like?, posted by alexandra_k on April 20, 2005, at 4:30:37
It's wonderful that you survived.
Now you know how to make your own family.
I hope I'm part of it.
But if I ever abuse you, in any way hurt you,
and am unable to make it forgivable,
then you know what to do.
And may you be strong enough to do it.
Because some things just are unforgivable.
They eat away at your soul,
and nothing, nothing is worth your soul.
You are priceless.
Posted by Susan47 on April 20, 2005, at 10:21:00
In reply to Re: What're your parents like?, posted by alexandra_k on April 20, 2005, at 4:36:03
That's where money counts for a lot. Because not matter who says what about happiness, the simple fact of the matter is that it's easier to be happy when you have enough money to do what you'd really like. The secret is, knowing what you want to do.
Posted by Dinah on April 20, 2005, at 10:54:22
In reply to Re: What're your parents like?, posted by alexandra_k on April 20, 2005, at 4:36:03
In my work, I see a lot of people with a whole lot of money. I'd have to say the very rich aren't a whole lot happier than the very poor, for the most part. Maybe the key is in having enough for your basic needs and a few luxuries, but not tooooo much.
In any case, the happiest people on both ends of the spectrum and in the middle seem to be the ones with the good enough parents. And oddly enough as well, the happiest of the very rich children I've seen are the ones who grew up to work hard at whatever they did. They became professionals or carried on the family business in a positive energetic way.
Does that mean that happiness lies in a sense of purpose and industry? Shudder.
Of course, that's just my limited experience. Maybe I tend to see the underbelly of human nature.
Posted by sunny10 on April 20, 2005, at 12:28:01
In reply to Re: What're your parents like?, posted by Dinah on April 20, 2005, at 10:54:22
a couple of thoughts flew through my head while I read the posts...
Alex, maybe you ARE too focussed on "school" being "your happy place"... there are plenty of us here that find you quite socially adept. After reading your tale, I am even MORE impressed with you as a strong, loving person...Get out of the house more, sweet girl!!! (loving advice: tell me to go to h*ll, if you want!!!)
All- money does not equal happiness... having what you want is nowhere near as important as wanting what you have...
I think it comes down to the fact that BECAUSE my childhood did not allow choices for anything I wanted/needed, I do not even know where to begin figuring out what a need/want is or how to go about filling those needs and wants based on what I could afford monetarily. (I KNOW I speak for myself, here, maybe others, too)
Okay, so I need food, water, shelter. According to the experts I also need loving relationships (with myself, with others), and a sense of self (including hobbies, et cetera) to be well-adjusted. The rest is "wanting"... jewelry, cars, et cetera. Th money only matters for what you want. The rest should always be free. HARD to achieve, maybe, but free.
A quick story. I used to watch Animal Planet on cable when bored/nothing to read/nothing else on tv that I wanted to see. I would watch a Lifetime movie if I wanted to "free tears to releaase stress", et cetera.
Now I have moved. My rent for a jr one-bedroom apt. is more than it was when in a three bedroom house, splitting the rent with my SO. So I was forced to do some thinking. And I realized though I "wanted" cable tv, the rabbit ears antennea brings me in all of the local channels clear as a bell, so I didn't "need" cable. And from there I realized that I only really enjoyed/looked forward to one tv show a week (and it's on a local station)- the rest of the time I was using tv as an escape to avoid finding hobbies and as an excuse to avoid crying over my own problems and release my own stresses.
I hate "placing blame" on y parents, but I have to admit to still being angry that I am still trying to erase negative thought pathways and create positive ones at 37 ys old!!! It is an awfully long time to have to pay for someone else's mistakes. I realize that my parents were as screwed up as me, but I work d*mned hard to make sure that my son knows that he is loved and respected as an individual (ooooh, and he's thirteen- that is sometimes very difficult work, indeed!!!!)
So those are my thoughts.... hope they mean something to at least one of you...
Posted by Susan47 on April 20, 2005, at 13:06:43
In reply to Re: What're your parents like?, posted by Dinah on April 20, 2005, at 10:54:22
Exactly, Dinah, I so agree with you. Too much leads to discontent with everything. We were meant to need to survive, struggle is essential. But not too much :)
This is the end of the thread.
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