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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 30. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by daisym on April 14, 2005, at 2:01:42
This is an old song most of you here are probably too young to remember...but it fits for me right now.
I went to the pdoc appointment on Tuesday. Same one I've seen before. It wasn't too bad -- I think she just is a very "tell it like she sees it" person. And practical. VERY practical. Nothing soft and comforting about her. We talked about medications and she asked me what I wanted to accomplish. I think I said I'd like to be less suicidal and more productive at work. She said that didn't seem like too much to ask. She recommended the lowest dose of wellbutrin, once a day, though she was worried about insomnia for me. (you think?) I took the prescription and filled it. And cried all the way home today. I can't believe I'm not strong enough to get through this. I'm sick of feeling so low but I'm terrified of the direction I'm heading.
Things this week have been very tough with my therapist. Monday I couldn't talk to him. I was terrified for some reason and I just knew I needed to make myself be better. I needed to protect him from all the darkness. But I don't lie to him so I couldn't talk to him. He got very frustrated, because he knew something was wrong and he couldn't get me to open up. He told me he understood why I would want to stay closed down, avoid the hurt, but he was wrong. I wasn't closed, just holding back. I left in tears after telling him I felt like he wanted me to close it all up again -- that I felt abandoned in my pain. Of course I can't ever leave it like that, it freaks me out to think he is upset with me, so I left a message apologizing. He called back and said it was really hard session for him too, he wanted to help but not make me feel forced to talk. But he could tell I was hurting -- too many "It's fine!" in one session. I told him he was supposed to be magic, just *know* what I'm thinking and how hard it all is. I also admitted that I'm sick of saying the same thing over and over again. So if I am, he must be too. And I told him something else was going on, some new feeling that felt afraid and didn't trust him. By the end of the phone call things were mostly OK. He wanted to make sure I would still call him if I needed him, no matter what. That was good to hear.
I thought a lot about why I was so afraid. Going to the pdoc the next day was a big part of it. I felt sent away -- and I felt so young. I remembered what pfingstegg had written about a more timid age state showing up and I realized that both last week and now this one, a very shy, very upset 9 year old was showing up. So I let her write and tried to figure out her story. There is a lot that happened at this age. But I had to get her put away before the pdoc appointment, she would never survive that! I was only partially successful -- the tears showed up a few times during that appointment but I managed to hold them back. When we talked about my husband's anger, her comment to me was, "don't you have any limits?" I really wanted to answer "not when I feel nine!" but I didn't. I let it go, I didn't want to get into it with her -- and she didn't push it very much. I had therapy an hour later, and boy, that nine-year-old was really out then! But this time I was able to see what was happening and talk anyway. I had a new memory "arrive" right there during therapy, which hasn't happened very often. Usually I get a chance to process it in my mind before I say it out loud. I guess the trigger of the pdoc was so big, I couldn't control it.
It ended up being a really hard day overall. And last night was impossibly hard.
So we are back to talking about feeling cornered, not having options and "the plan" such as it is. I hope these feelings are old and will dissipate soon. I'm tired of rating myself -- "on a scale of 1-10 how intense are those thoughts today?" I want to move away from this. I think that was part of shutting down on Monday too. But it almost feels like "it" has a mind of its own and is insisting on being talked about in therapy. Some part of me is trying to save me.
Thank you guys (again and again) for letting me pour so much of this out here. It really does help.
Hugs to All,
Daisy
Posted by fallsfall on April 14, 2005, at 6:47:24
In reply to Stop the World I want to Get Off (long), posted by daisym on April 14, 2005, at 2:01:42
>But it almost feels like "it" has a mind of its own and is insisting on being talked about in therapy. Some part of me is trying to save me.
It is safe to talk to your therapist about this. He won't leave you - he has told you that. It won't be too much for him. He knows how to help you hold it. So let it do what it needs to do. Understand that it *does* need this.
I am unbelievably glad that some part of you is trying to save you.
Love,
Falls.
Posted by sunny10 on April 14, 2005, at 8:22:00
In reply to Re: Stop the World I want to Get Off (long) » daisym, posted by fallsfall on April 14, 2005, at 6:47:24
I wish I was half as good as you are at articulating what you are feeling....you continue to amaze me everyday.
Yes, talk to T. And do it at your speed- he's shown you that he can be patient. Just keep in mind that it is so frustrating to watch someone we care about feeling so badly and refusing our efforts to help. He is only human, too, you know.... although he sounds like the one nearest to perfect I've ever heard of...
Understand why he is frustrated, but let him take care of his feelings. You worry about you, okay?
I have been feeling about 9 yrs old since Saturday night...maybe my admitting that will make you realize you are not alone in this...
(((((XOXOX)))))))
-sunny10
Posted by pegasus on April 14, 2005, at 10:19:37
In reply to Stop the World I want to Get Off (long), posted by daisym on April 14, 2005, at 2:01:42
oh, daisy, there is so much pain in your message. I wish I knew how to ease it for you. it sounds like you are doing good necessary work, but it's clearly so hard. I'm glad to hear you wanting to make it through this. but i wish it could be much easier for you. please keep writing to us. i'm worried about you, and i want to hear what you're struggling with--1000 times if thats what it takes for you to find some comfort.
hugs
pegasus
Posted by Daisym on April 14, 2005, at 10:44:17
In reply to Re: Stop the World I want to Get Off (long) » daisym, posted by fallsfall on April 14, 2005, at 6:47:24
I had weird powerful dreams last night that the medication made me unable to type so I couldn't post anymore, couldn't journal, couldn't chat, and couldn't talk to you. It was scary. The pdoc in my dream kept saying, "you need to talk about it, not write about it anyway, stop worrying." I felt like half my support was ripped away and that it was intended to shut me down. Obvious dream, huh?
I spent sometime thinking that perhaps this current push/pull around talking about suicide is really playing out with my therapist what should have happened with my mother. I should have told her, and she should have been able to hear it. I didn't, but I knew she couldn't. Part of being nine is remembering a number of aborted attempts to tell her. So right now, having a plan is about the worse "secret" I could have, it is very embarrassing to feel this way: honest, but mortifying for me. So I sit on it, and then I feel so scared and bad I tell him. And then I want to take it back.
The question is, how long will it last and much more serious can it get? I told my husband last night that it was really hard for me to still admit to feeling this way and to still have to be talking about it in therapy. His response was, "I don't know why you think you need to keep saying it. You got my attention, though I'm pretty sure that these feelings aren't real. Your therapist probably knows you would never do anything either. Maybe you should just stop thinking about it." I was crushed but covered well. Isn't this the response I would have expected from my mother when I was nine?
I'm trying to refuse to be pushed into "proving" that these feelings are real. At the same time, I want to believe him. It is confusing and I'm emotionally exhausted. I'm thinking that I should take a break from therapy until Monday and let it all settle down.
And hide from work...
Posted by Daisym on April 14, 2005, at 10:51:26
In reply to Re: Stop the World I want to Get Off (long), posted by sunny10 on April 14, 2005, at 8:22:00
Thanks for sharing how you feel, Sunny. I wish we could arrange for our nine year old selves to play jacks or jump rope together.
I know you are going through a rough time right now, so I appreciate you taking the time to respond.
As far as taking care of my therapist, I worry about how hard I am for him A LOT. In fact, when I read Falls' post (above) I read it as " It won't be too much {FUN} for him." Amazing how the sees what it thinks it should. I told him I don't want to worry him, he says I can't control his emotions. That it is OK for people to worry about other people, especially when they care about them. But still...
I hope things get easier for you soon.
Daisy
Posted by Daisym on April 14, 2005, at 10:54:36
In reply to Re: Stop the World I want to Get Off (long), posted by pegasus on April 14, 2005, at 10:19:37
Thanks for telling me I can keep writing, Peg. It means a lot to be able to do that. I feel like a broken record and not very helpful to others right now.
I keep repeating to myself the phrase I used to say in childbirth ed: "pain with a purpose." I wish it only lasted about 24 hours like labor though.
I started the meds. I hope they help. I guess until then, I'll keep writing. Thanks for reading.
Posted by B2chica on April 14, 2005, at 11:03:33
In reply to Stop the World I want to Get Off (long), posted by daisym on April 14, 2005, at 2:01:42
Posted by sunny10 on April 14, 2005, at 12:17:16
In reply to Re: Stop the World I want to Get Off (long) » pegasus, posted by Daisym on April 14, 2005, at 10:54:36
I know that you are a kind and caring person and that is it "human" to care about how your T is reacting to all of this. All I can say is that your T sounds like the most well-adjusted person I have ever heard of... IF he has issues with "helping you being hard on him" as you feel you are, I have no doubt at all that he would talk to another T about his feelings and work them through just like you are doing with him.
That's my humble opinion and boy, I used to love jacks....as for the title of your thread? I never much liked the merry-go-round anyway... I want to get off, too!!
Shall we start with onesies??
kisses,
sunny10
Posted by mair on April 14, 2005, at 14:07:55
In reply to Re: Stop the World I want to Get Off (long) » pegasus, posted by Daisym on April 14, 2005, at 10:54:36
Diasy
I think you're so incredibly brave.
I have no time now to post. I just wanted to tell you that Wellbutrin has been a great drug for me - as close as a drug comes to having no side effects. That wasn't true at first; it did take me a couple of weeks to adjust.
Wellbutrin can be activating I guess although it's long since stopped having that effect on me. You might be able to minimize sleep disturbance by taking it in the morning.
Also, and again your experience can differ, I've augmented it with small amounts of klonopin at night to help with sleep. The great thing about klonopin for me is that it has a much longer life than alot of drugs. More traditional sleeping pills were great for helping me get to sleep but did nothing to keep me asleep. Until my most recent episode, it was pretty rare that I'd wake up in the middle of the night if I took klonopin.
Lots of people frown on drugs like klonopin which can be addictive, but both my pdocs and internists have been very positive about it - telling me that I never was taking enough to worry about addiction at all.
Just some thoughts
Take care
mair
Posted by annierose on April 14, 2005, at 14:14:00
In reply to Re: Stop the World I want to Get Off (long) » pegasus, posted by Daisym on April 14, 2005, at 10:54:36
(((Daisey)))
Sorry these past few months have been filled with so much pain. Let us know if the meds help, I certainly hope so.
When you wrote, "pain with a purpose", I smiled. I just got back from a "transition to middle school" conference for my daughter. The main speaker said PAIN was important during adolescence ... builds character, problem solving skills, patience, etc. etc. As a parent it wasn't our job to help our children avoid the pain, rather, help them with the tools to conquer it. Hmmmm ... how about parents that let their children just get STUCK in the pain!
Good Luck, and keep posting. I learn so much from my fellow babblers.
-Annierose
Posted by daisym on April 14, 2005, at 14:32:01
In reply to Re: Stop the World I want to Get Off (long), posted by sunny10 on April 14, 2005, at 12:17:16
Your response reminds me once again that I have no idea if my therapist is well adjusted in his "real" life -- but he doesn't bring it into our relationship if he isn't. He is really good at his job, I guess, and I think he is genuinely a calm, caring person. His wife is a therapist so I've wondered on and off if they support each other with difficult clients. I should ask him...
I'm glad you like jacks. It is a childhood favorite of mine. :)
Posted by daisym on April 14, 2005, at 14:35:02
In reply to Re: Stop the World I want to Get Off (long) » Daisym, posted by mair on April 14, 2005, at 14:07:55
Thanks for taking the time to offer encouragement. I don't feel brave, I'm really very scared.
I keep hearing about it taking a few weeks to "adjust" -- what does that mean? I have a stomach ache but I think it is nerves. I feel spacey and anxious -- but I think this is more nerves. I'm medication sensitive and emotionally a wreck over this. I'm taking deep breaths as I sit here trying to stave off impending panic.
Posted by daisym on April 14, 2005, at 14:37:22
In reply to Re: Stop the World I want to Get Off (long), posted by annierose on April 14, 2005, at 14:14:00
I think middle school is as tough on parents as it is on the kids. I still have to remind myself that the goal isn't that my son doesn't get anxious, it is that he copes with it. Hard for me, I want to protect him.
Thanks for the encouragement.
Posted by sunny10 on April 14, 2005, at 14:37:55
In reply to Re: Stop the World I want to Get Off (long) » sunny10, posted by daisym on April 14, 2005, at 14:32:01
why WOULDN'T you be able to assume that they support each other? Isn't that what spouses try to do for each other?
And how he deals with HIS stress shouldn't be a part of your therapy, dear.
I know this is so hard for you, but please at least try to let that be the least of your worries, okay?
I got through onesies and am ready for twosies, you?
Posted by annierose on April 14, 2005, at 15:15:54
In reply to Re: Stop the World I want to Get Off (long) » mair, posted by daisym on April 14, 2005, at 14:35:02
I hate those anxious feelings of not being able to take deep breaths. You are probably still at work right now, but are you able to get some fresh air?
I find talking a nice walk, concentrating on my breathing and listening to music can help. And my favorite ... watching my children sleep and listening to them breathe. Within minutes, I notice I'm breathing in sync with him. Wish I still had my "blankie", wouldn't the world be a better place if we all still had our blankies?
-Annierose
Posted by fallsfall on April 14, 2005, at 15:35:38
In reply to Re: Stop the World I want to Get Off (long) » fallsfall, posted by Daisym on April 14, 2005, at 10:44:17
> I had weird powerful dreams last night that the medication made me unable to type so I couldn't post anymore, couldn't journal, couldn't chat, and couldn't talk to you. It was scary. The pdoc in my dream kept saying, "you need to talk about it, not write about it anyway, stop worrying." I felt like half my support was ripped away and that it was intended to shut me down. Obvious dream, huh?
*** You can't get rid of me that easy...
>
> I spent sometime thinking that perhaps this current push/pull around talking about suicide is really playing out with my therapist what should have happened with my mother. I should have told her, and she should have been able to hear it. I didn't, but I knew she couldn't. Part of being nine is remembering a number of aborted attempts to tell her. So right now, having a plan is about the worse "secret" I could have, it is very embarrassing to feel this way: honest, but mortifying for me. So I sit on it, and then I feel so scared and bad I tell him. And then I want to take it back.
>
*** This makes perfect sense. And you need to keep trying to tell him so that he *can* take care of you (which he can).> The question is, how long will it last and much more serious can it get?
*** It will last until you work this through. You can't go around this, you *have* to go through it. So if you want it to go quickly, you have to keep working on it. It will never feel like a comfortable thing - in my game we call it "Try new behavior" - it is worth 5 sanity marbles - the highest number you can get. It is right up there with "Breakthrough in understanding" and "Talk to therapist about difficult issue" and "Get positive feedback on new behavior". These are the things that make the biggest positive difference - they are also the hardest. If you can talk to him today, you'll get 12 Sanity Marbles - 2 for going to therapy, 5 for talking about a difficult issue, 5 for try new behavior. And maybe 10 more!
This *IS* the work of therapy. This *IS* the hard stuff. It is also the stuff that makes the difference - that lets us learn new ways of dealing with the world.
>I told my husband last night that it was really hard for me to still admit to feeling this way and to still have to be talking about it in therapy. His response was, "I don't know why you think you need to keep saying it. You got my attention, though I'm pretty sure that these feelings aren't real. Your therapist probably knows you would never do anything either. Maybe you should just stop thinking about it." I was crushed but covered well. Isn't this the response I would have expected from my mother when I was nine?*** Sorry, you married your mom. So did I. Sigh.
>
> I'm trying to refuse to be pushed into "proving" that these feelings are real. At the same time, I want to believe him. It is confusing and I'm emotionally exhausted. I'm thinking that I should take a break from therapy until Monday and let it all settle down.
>
*** Good don't prove the feelings are real. But know that they are. This is not something to gamble with.> And hide from work...
*** Good luck, Daisy. This is the hard stuff. The terror. But it is also the stuff that will make a difference.
Posted by mair on April 14, 2005, at 18:44:04
In reply to Re: Stop the World I want to Get Off (long) » mair, posted by daisym on April 14, 2005, at 14:35:02
By a few weeks to adjust I don't mean a few miserable weeks. If the drug makes you sick for 3 weeks, you probably shouldn't be on it. I remember feeling occasionally light headed and maybe a little jittery for a couple of days not only when I first started taking it but also each time I increased the dose. This is one good reason, in my book, to start slow as you are. I think I also had a few GI symptoms, so they may be nerves or they may be the drug.
I know it's easier said than done, but breathe deeply and try not to project too far ahead.
I've been through tons of drug trials, mostly unseccessful because either they didn't work or I couldn't tolerate them. Wellbutrin is sort of the foundation for me and I periodically try to find something to boost it. I started a new added drug about 3 weeks ago because I was in such bad shape. Low and behold, it hasn't made me feel sick and after about 2 weeks I realized that I was starting to feel a little better.
Maybe you'll get lucky and this will be a tolerable drug that makes a difference. Just don't give up on it before you give it a chance.
Thinking of you
mair
Posted by Shortelise on April 14, 2005, at 19:04:42
In reply to Stop the World I want to Get Off (long), posted by daisym on April 14, 2005, at 2:01:42
Aie aie aie.
Daisy, I'd like to invite that nine year old to sit in my lap, a kind, warm, safe place, or maybe just lean against me here in this big soft chair, tucked under my arm. I'd like to tell her funny stories, tell her about the Borrowers, and about the Secret Garden. I'd like to make her feel safe and lighten her heart.
Could you make her laugh? Laughing and crying, don't you know it's the same relief? (another old song)
(((Daisy)))
ShortE
Posted by shrinking violet on April 14, 2005, at 20:15:19
In reply to Stop the World I want to Get Off (long), posted by daisym on April 14, 2005, at 2:01:42
Posted by Daisym on April 14, 2005, at 20:51:14
In reply to Re: Stop the World I want to Get Off (long) » daisym, posted by sunny10 on April 14, 2005, at 14:37:55
I need to stop playing and go in for a popsicle now.
And a nap...
Posted by Daisym on April 14, 2005, at 20:53:19
In reply to Re: Stop the World I want to Get Off (long), posted by annierose on April 14, 2005, at 15:15:54
I have my stuffed animal from when I was 7 still. She is battered and old but I love her and she gives me great comfort. She has even gone to therapy with me.
I kept all my kids blankets for them. Right now I love them more than they do. But sometimes I notice they are off my dresser and on their beds. But no one ever knows how that happened. Hmmm...
I think I can manage breathing in and out now. Now much else, but breathing seems reasonable.
Posted by Daisym on April 14, 2005, at 20:55:34
In reply to Re: Stop the World I want to Get Off (long) » Daisym, posted by fallsfall on April 14, 2005, at 15:35:38
Today was so hard that I want all the marbles!
No, I want you to come and get me so I don't have to type to you.
I'm glad you believe I can get through this. I lost what little hope I had today so now I need yours.
My plan is to stay in bed tomorrow, covers over my head, phone off and do absolutely nothing. Shame on me. Too bad.
Posted by Daisym on April 14, 2005, at 20:58:45
In reply to Re: Stop the World I want to Get Off (long) » daisym, posted by Shortelise on April 14, 2005, at 19:04:42
Sounds like exactly what she needs. Only...she's gone into hiding again. Bad day for the young ones. Necessary, but very bad.
I love the Borrowers, I used to leave out spools to see if they would disappear. And I loved Nancy Drew and Little Women. Maybe I'll reread something while I'm hiding tomorrow. It might make the nine year old peek out again, though I'm not sure I want that just yet.
Thanks for snuggling. Your post was comforting.
Posted by fallsfall on April 14, 2005, at 21:10:00
In reply to Re: Stop the World I want to Get Off (long) » fallsfall, posted by Daisym on April 14, 2005, at 20:55:34
> I'm glad you believe I can get through this. I lost what little hope I had today so now I need yours.
*** I do believe you can get through this. It takes so much to "try new behaviors". It is amazing how drained it makes me - so if you are tired, I would say that is "normal". I will lend you hope as long as you need it.
>
> My plan is to stay in bed tomorrow, covers over my head, phone off and do absolutely nothing. Shame on me. Too bad.*** No shame at all. Just send me an email at some point so I know you are OK. Do whatever makes you feel held. Let me know if you need me to hold you.
You did an awful lot today, Daisy. Be proud of yourself, and be kind to yourself. Let yourself recuperate. Eat COW. Watch a short video. Know you are loved.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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