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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by alexandra_k on February 13, 2005, at 0:13:14
In reply to Re: for Alexandra, posted by Pfinstegg on February 13, 2005, at 0:04:28
> Oh, OK. I thought it had happened to you in your early teens. I must have misread, or misunderstood, your posts from a month or two ago.
Sorry.
I guess I vaccilate about whether it counts as abuse or not.
It doesn't today ;-)
ok?sorry...
Posted by alexandra_k on February 13, 2005, at 0:17:49
In reply to Re: for Alexandra » Pfinstegg, posted by alexandra_k on February 13, 2005, at 0:13:14
Posted by Pfinstegg on February 13, 2005, at 0:19:26
In reply to Re: for Dinah, posted by Dinah on February 13, 2005, at 0:03:33
I didn't know that you really thought you had it, also- now I understand much better. I think it can be very hidden- it certainly was for me for many, many years. I put up a huge fight about it when my analyst began suggesting it, so much so that he used to tease me that I had almost, but not quite, convinced him that I didn't have it! But, as I've begun accepting it, and trying to express and understand it, I really am feeling a lot better. Now, I really respect him giving me that diagnosis.
Posted by Pfinstegg on February 13, 2005, at 0:23:57
In reply to Re: for Alexandra » Pfinstegg, posted by alexandra_k on February 13, 2005, at 0:13:14
Definitely OK
Posted by alexandra_k on February 13, 2005, at 0:29:49
In reply to Re: for Alexandra, posted by Pfinstegg on February 13, 2005, at 0:23:57
I am sorry...
(Watch me rationalise)...
Posted by Pfinstegg on February 13, 2005, at 0:47:15
In reply to Re: Pfinstegg » Pfinstegg, posted by alexandra_k on February 13, 2005, at 0:29:49
Don't be. Take your time with everything.
Posted by Dinah on February 13, 2005, at 2:28:28
In reply to Re: for Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on February 13, 2005, at 0:19:26
I'm a contrary wench. It terrifies me to think of myself as getting that label, but it also makes me feel ashamed that I need to hide it. So I periodically get angry and refuse to hide. Then regret it.
I can't say my therapist ever encouraged me. He downright discouraged me until I told him he was hurting my ability to communicate effectively by having to talk around the issue.
Posted by Pfinstegg on February 13, 2005, at 9:23:40
In reply to Re: :-) » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on February 13, 2005, at 2:28:28
I thought Alexandra gave an excellent overview of dissociative disorders on a gradient from minimal to severe. I'm sure she's right that it's a coping mechanism for ANY kind of trauma- neglect, physical abuse, emotional abuse as well as sexual abuse. If any of those causes overwhelming distress, the response could be to dissociate- leaving a younger part of ourselves to bear the fear and sadness, so that an older part can go out in the world with enough confidence to do well. I am so astounded to be just now remembering sexual abuse that occurred when I was six that I think I over-emphasize that as a necessary causative factor. I guess the best way to look at dissociation is as a generalized brain response to overwhelming stress suffered by a child, adolescent, or adult (war veterans).
If you are beginning to suspect that you do dissociate, are you getting a helpful response from your T? I 've found that the T needs to be confident in his own mind that you have it, in order to deal with with the adult part which keeps saying, "never! Of course not!" as well as the child part, which keeps remembering and forgetting, then remembering again.
Posted by Dinah on February 13, 2005, at 10:11:43
In reply to Re: :-) » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on February 13, 2005, at 9:23:40
I don't think that my conception of my degree of dissociation has changed in eight or nine years, maybe more. As soon as I started giving thought to what was going on inside when I started therapy. Before that, it never much occurred to me that my behavior and thought processes were out of the ordinary. I grew in my understanding and ability to verbalize because I started out with very little vocabulary on the subject, but the basic ideas have pretty much remained unchanged.
It took my therapist another couple of years to be comfortable with my talking about it in a direct way. By that time, he realized that my ego state structure was quite stable and he wasn't afraid of "encouraging" polyfragmentation or anything. I know, I'm not proud of him either, but it is the prevalent thinking.
Since then he's been terrific about it. He does have experience in the area, although his experience left him more cautious than eager. But he is very accepting, and understands my goals.
Posted by littleone on February 13, 2005, at 15:53:22
In reply to Re: for Dinah » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on February 12, 2005, at 23:47:10
The other day I had a really bad session with my T and in it he was saying over and over that I have a shattered ego. And that he believes I am in the PTSD/BPD/DID spectrum, ie I have a problems with my sense of self.
Anyway, it all scared me to death and of course I've been reading up on this stuff and something really worries me.
I've read about Dissociative Compartmentalization and it sounds just like my boxes and how I shove things away. And I know that everyone is able to turn away from unpleasant things. But I worry that I am *too* good at doing that.
I was just wondering what you guys are like with this aspect of the dissociative disorders.
Posted by daisym on February 13, 2005, at 18:32:52
In reply to Dissociative Compartmentalization, posted by littleone on February 13, 2005, at 15:53:22
I'm sorry you are worrying. Actually, the skill to compartmentalize often comes in very handy. It allows you to focus on things and not be distracted with all the background memories and feelings. I'm so, so good at this. I can teach classes or give presentations and be completely "in the moment." That is why I like to be in charge. If I'm sitting and my mind has time to wander, I get whammied with thoughts or feelings I'd rather not have. I think many people think I'm a cold, unfeeling b**ch because I can even put away things like my husband being in the hospital, or other personal issues. I think this is why I can (usually) go back to work after therapy. And this is one of the skills that is not as strong as it used to be as I get further into "my stuff". I complain about this to my therapist all the time.
Is the problem that you put stuff away and don't ever sort it out, or don't go back to it? The usual thought is that you will when you are ready. I think sometimes we who are really good at compartmentalizing need a little help in this area. I think that is why depression sets in...all those boxes get too full and some of the feelings leak out.
Is this what you mean?
Posted by Dinah on February 13, 2005, at 18:50:52
In reply to Dissociative Compartmentalization, posted by littleone on February 13, 2005, at 15:53:22
I can "forget" things, if that's what you mean. I don't necessarily forget that they happen, but I strip them of all meaning.
Posted by littleone on February 15, 2005, at 15:09:03
In reply to Dissociative Compartmentalization, posted by littleone on February 13, 2005, at 15:53:22
Thank you for your replies. I do mean what both of you said, but also more. I don't really know if this is a freaky thing, or just normal. And I can't explain it very well.
If something makes me antsy or upset, I can just shove all thoughts of it away. Sometimes it's like a mental shove and sometimes I lock things in a mental box. Once they've been shoved/locked away, it's like what Dinah said. I can forget them, but still know they happened. And they are stripped of all meaning. Sometimes I can take something out of the box and there will be no feeling attached to it. It's just a thing.
But usually, once something is gone, it stays gone. Unless something triggers it off and it hits me all over again and then I need to work at locking it back up.
Normally locking things up doesn't take any thought or effort, it just happens. It's only recently that I've been able to consciously lock something away.
But it's a lot more than that. My feelings are compartmentalized too. I get all antsy just trying to write this. Sorry, I can't expand on this point.
I think too that my identity is compartmentalized. I know that everyone has a variety of identities/faces, eg workmate, daughter, mother, sportsplayer, friend, etc. And that these identities are pretty separate. But I kind of get the impression that they should be a little flexible if need be. Mine are completely separate and different and . I'm not explaining this very well. I guess mine are just separated by a fence/wall. Mine are all on different planets.
I just feel wrong inside.
Posted by Dinah on February 15, 2005, at 17:30:25
In reply to Re: Dissociative Compartmentalization, posted by littleone on February 15, 2005, at 15:09:03
I don't know if this is part of what you mean, but my life ends up being very disconnected - sort of chopped up. I don't have any enduring sense of myself or my history or even what happened last week.
This moment seems like the only real moment that ever was, but in an hour, this moment will seem as unreal as any other.
The only thing that anchors me at all is my connection to others.
I don't know if that's anything like what happens to you.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 16, 2005, at 0:54:12
In reply to Re: Dissociative Compartmentalization » littleone, posted by Dinah on February 15, 2005, at 17:30:25
Sometimes I become aware of something. It can be a memory, or a feeling associated with a memory, or certain thoughts, or all of the above. I can kind of refocus on something else and sort of 'prevent' it from resurfacing. After a couple of 'preventions' it doesn't (hardly ever) come back up.
I don't think I would be able to function very well without that. Like Daisy said, it is what lets you carry on...
Posted by alexandra_k on February 16, 2005, at 0:58:20
In reply to Regarding voices, posted by gardenergirl on February 12, 2005, at 8:35:14
Yeah, I had heard that. But get the note on criteria A for schizophrenia:
Note: Only one Criterion A symptom is required if delusions are bizarre or hallucinations consist of a voice keeping up a running commentary on the person's behavior or thoughts, or two or more voices conversing with each other.
I get 'two or more voices conversing' - does that mean I am schizophrenic???
Sorry, just yet another issue I have with the DSM...
Posted by alexandra_k on February 16, 2005, at 1:00:04
In reply to Re: p-doc and coming assessment » alexandra_k, posted by judy1 on February 12, 2005, at 14:29:22
Thank you Judy.
It is nice to hear of other peoples experiences. It makes me feel less like I am all alone out here.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 16, 2005, at 1:00:35
In reply to Re: Dissociative Compartmentalization, posted by alexandra_k on February 16, 2005, at 0:54:12
Posted by judy1 on February 16, 2005, at 11:35:58
In reply to Re: p-doc and coming assessment » judy1, posted by alexandra_k on February 16, 2005, at 1:00:04
I'm glad it helped to know you are not alone. I suggested the book search because that is how I found my therp- can you go to medline (for articles) or Amazon (for books) to see if any of the authors are in NZ? I'll see if I have any luck- what about University Medical Centers- they often have pdocs who specialize in less common disorders and have studies going where you don't pay anything for therapy. I know the population is fairly low there, but it is difficult to believe that there are no specialists in your area- especially since DDs are being diagnosed more often. I truly hope your search goes well.
take care, judy
Posted by alexandra_k on February 16, 2005, at 14:18:16
In reply to Re: p-doc and coming assessment » alexandra_k, posted by judy1 on February 16, 2005, at 11:35:58
> can you go to medline (for articles) or Amazon (for books) to see if any of the authors are in NZ?
Yes, I can. Best I can figure is that there really isn't anyone over here.
>what about University Medical Centers- they often have pdocs who specialize in less common disorders and have studies going where you don't pay anything for therapy.
Not over here. There is funding to see a private psychiatrist up to 3x per year for a meds assessment / prescription if a uni GP refers you for that. There aren't any psychiatrists attached to the uni directly. Councelling at uni clinics is all done by peoples with a Masters in Councelling (a type of education degree) and it is not geared towards mental illness. Those with mental illness are supposed to be referred on to the public service that I am battling with at the moment.
>I know the population is fairly low there
Yup yup yup. I do believe that is half the battle.
> but it is difficult to believe that there are no specialists in your area- especially since DDs are being diagnosed more often.
Ah, but it seems that they are really not being diagnosed over here. We have gone the English way and the majority of clinicians think it is just so much BS. Australia is ok, more people over there (I think after xxxx got debarred from the US for malpractice and went to set up shop over there??? - something like that).
I tried to get hold of the medical statistics. Wanted to know if ANY cases had been diagnosed in NZ. I sent them the DSM IV code and asked for stats on number of times the code was used for hospitalisations etc. They sent back to me saying the stats were done on ICD-9 criteria and there DID along with a lot of other syndromes are lumped together in some kind of 'not otherwise specified' catch-all category. I wrote back querying why they were using such an outdated coding manuel - that the ICD-10 classifications would be more useful to me but no reply... Hmph.
Posted by judy1 on February 17, 2005, at 14:53:11
In reply to Re: p-doc and coming assessment » judy1, posted by alexandra_k on February 16, 2005, at 14:18:16
wow- that sucks big time. I am proud of you for being so proactive with your research, that has to be an empowering feeling for you. I can only hope that your country catches up with more modern psychiatric thinking. Until then- is it possible to communicate via the internet with an expert? I have talked to many experts (in the bipolar disorder field) and they have spoken to me for up to an hour- with no charge! I can't help but think that an expert in DDs would be willing to talk to you based on the lack of expertise available in your country. heck it's worth a try.
take care, judy
Posted by alexandra_k on February 17, 2005, at 18:14:06
In reply to Re: p-doc and coming assessment » alexandra_k, posted by judy1 on February 17, 2005, at 14:53:11
I dunno. I can't imagine anyone would want to get involved volountarily.
Thanks for your kind thoughts, though.
I appreciate them a great deal.
Posted by gardenergirl on February 17, 2005, at 18:31:47
In reply to p-doc and coming assessment, posted by alexandra_k on February 11, 2005, at 15:30:29
Posted by alexandra_k on February 17, 2005, at 18:52:29
In reply to When do you go? (nm) » alexandra_k, posted by gardenergirl on February 17, 2005, at 18:31:47
Wednesday. Or Tuesday for all you guys over in yesterday...
I am moving house on Monday.
Alllllllll the way (probably about 500 meters or so) to another hostel. Sort of looking foward to it. That kind of change is good. They found me a self-catered room at the other hostel. 5 flatmates. Bit of a smaller room. In a tower block (as opposed to a cottage in an old orchard) but on the ground floor. So the smoke escape is handy :-)Sorry I am raving.
But I have stuff to do to keep me occupied till then...Eep.
It is ok.
I am ok.
It will be ok.
Yeah.
Posted by gardenergirl on February 18, 2005, at 7:53:21
In reply to Re: When do you go? » gardenergirl, posted by alexandra_k on February 17, 2005, at 18:52:29
> Wednesday. Or Tuesday for all you guys over in yesterday...
>I'll be thinking of you. I'm glad you have a distraction and that you are moving to a better situation.
It is okay.
You will be okay.
You will get through this.
We are here for you.gg
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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