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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Susan47 on January 26, 2005, at 19:25:16
This absolutely cannot be normal. There is no way any human being could want another this much.
Posted by Susan47 on January 26, 2005, at 20:14:56
In reply to I saw my Ex-T today, and I have it for him SO BAD, posted by Susan47 on January 26, 2005, at 19:25:16
Oh god it never ends, she says my last T was an excellent therapist. She wants to do Extensive Testing, ack, before we do any therapy, she says if I was having bad thoughts about my T (who is apparently a paragon of virtue, a pure and simple and very very effective therapist, all my words, not hers, she just gave the impression she thinks the WORLD of him, hm, maybe she loves him too hah!)well if I was having bad thoughts about him then what the Heck is going on with ME? She doesn't want to be surprised by anything that come up, she wants to be ready, I wish I could remember what she said but integration strikes a chord.
Ew, ew, I'm so nervous I can't think. She says I sound like a completely different person than the one she spoke to last week, she's concerned, omigod I'm scared, I told her I didn't want this therapy to hurt my confidence more than help it. I hope she was paying attention.
Posted by Susan47 on January 26, 2005, at 20:26:08
In reply to And I'm going back into therapy with new T, posted by Susan47 on January 26, 2005, at 20:14:56
I know my ex-T has lots of integrity. He recommended the new one, so hopefully she has integrity too, she said she knows him socially as an acquaintance and she thinks highly of him so she must be okay. Calm down Susie, it's okay, it's going to be okay, I wish I could hear CW say that to me right now, I need his voice so much.
Posted by Susan47 on January 26, 2005, at 20:30:04
In reply to I saw my Ex-T today, and I have it for him SO BAD, posted by Susan47 on January 26, 2005, at 19:25:16
His eyes are kind of green when he wears blue.
And his voice just carries me into such a soothed place.
I was in heaven for a very very lucky few minutes.
How embarrassing.
If only he weren't such a NICE person, but if he weren't
I wouldn't be so lucky, would I.
Well, maybe I'd Get lucky, though.
He must just laugh at people like me ... or feel sorry for us.
Surely not the respect we crave.
I better believe I have the respect or I'm going to feel terrible again. Like the kid who always got everything wrong, that was me.
Posted by Dinah on January 26, 2005, at 20:30:08
In reply to Re: And I'm going back into therapy with new T, posted by Susan47 on January 26, 2005, at 20:26:08
She just wants to know how best to help you, that's all.
Posted by Susan47 on January 26, 2005, at 20:38:55
In reply to It'll be ok » Susan47, posted by Dinah on January 26, 2005, at 20:30:08
Thanks, Dinah, thank you.
Posted by sunny10 on January 27, 2005, at 10:13:53
In reply to Re: It'll be ok » Dinah, posted by Susan47 on January 26, 2005, at 20:38:55
I find myself very confused by the babblers who DON'T want their T's to see all that is said here on babble.
'Cause I have to say, Suze, if you brought this entire thread into your new T, maybe she could actually HELP you with the things that are SPECIFICALLY bothering you at this moment. Once you feel more secure that this person UNDERSTANDS you, you won't panic so much- AFTER you deal with this panic you will be able to move onto the therapy you started BEFORE you fell in love with your old T.
Okay, okay, I know- a whole lot of unsolicitated advice I'm offering. But, as all advice, you are free to ignore me if I'm not helping...
(((((((((Susan47)))))))))))
It WILL be ok!
Posted by Susan47 on January 27, 2005, at 10:23:06
In reply to Re: It'll be ok, posted by sunny10 on January 27, 2005, at 10:13:53
Thanks for your kind words, Sunny. I'm embarrassed about my feelings for my ex-T; loving someone and not being loved in return is very humiliating.
I can't talk about it to another professional. And I know what she would say, and I carry the secret little hope in my heart that he does love me and I refuse to have the hope shattered by well-meaning professionals. They have no right.
Posted by sunny10 on January 27, 2005, at 12:39:14
In reply to Re: It'll be ok, posted by Susan47 on January 27, 2005, at 10:23:06
> Thanks for your kind words, Sunny. I'm embarrassed about my feelings for my ex-T; loving someone and not being loved in return is very humiliating.
........ (old-school thinking, dear)
> I can't talk about it to another professional. And I know what she would say, and I carry the secret little hope in my heart that he does love me and I refuse to have the hope shattered by well-meaning professionals. They have no right.
......... (and sorry again, but read your FIRST paragraph again, I'll wait --- muzac plays annoyingly in the background)
You are sabotaging yourself with this very post, honey. Please see this...if you love him, but he does love you (and you've been taught somewhere that you should feel humiliated by one-sided love--- not true by the way, only a learning experience IMHO)then,
how is it possible for the new T will shatter the "secret little hope in my heart that he does love me" ?
You are setting yourself up to be wrong no matter WHAT the outcome is, aren't you?
Why would you want to do that??
-sunny10
Posted by Susan47 on January 27, 2005, at 12:56:55
In reply to Re: It'll be ok, posted by sunny10 on January 27, 2005, at 12:39:14
Why can't I understand why you're saying? Why do I read my post over and over again and I don't see what you're trying to say? Your words sound meaningful but I can't grasp any meaning in them...
is it a psychological block?
Am I blocking their meaning or do they really not make sense?
Please tell me again another way, so I can understand, Sunny...
Posted by Susan47 on January 27, 2005, at 13:03:04
In reply to Re: It'll be ok, posted by sunny10 on January 27, 2005, at 12:39:14
I posted a long bunch of stuff on Writing again it's about love and now I KNOW why it FEELS humiliating but isn't necessarily that it's something else, because loving someone means they have all the qualities you see in yourself, and
if they don't love you back it means you're fooling yourself about the qualities you think you have, it means you're a fraud, somehow, about who you think you are, you've fooled yourself into thinking you're someone you're really not. You know, like the person who says, I'm generous and kind, but in reality others might see him as a penny-pinching boor. So you've gone and arrested your development towards your true potential, and now you can See in this person you're in love with, what you really aren't if they don't love you back. You see, it's all about yourself....
Susan, give it a rest. A break. No one will understand what you're saying. I don't think people really understand what love is, they all think it's an airy-fairy emotion .. but it isn't, it's a survival device, not just for reproduction, but for the development of the human species into something truly, spiritually beautiful ...
Posted by sunny10 on January 27, 2005, at 13:27:59
In reply to WHY ITS HUMILIATING, posted by Susan47 on January 27, 2005, at 13:03:04
> I posted a long bunch of stuff on Writing again it's about love and now I KNOW why it FEELS humiliating but isn't necessarily that it's something else, because loving someone means they have all the qualities you see in yourself, and
> if they don't love you back it means you're fooling yourself about the qualities you think you have, it means you're a fraud, somehow, about who you think you are, you've fooled yourself into thinking you're someone you're really not. You know, like the person who says, I'm generous and kind, but in reality others might see him as a penny-pinching boor. So you've gone and arrested your development towards your true potential, and now you can See in this person you're in love with, what you really aren't if they don't love you back. You see, it's all about yourself....
> Susan, give it a rest. A break. No one will understand what you're saying. I don't think people really understand what love is, they all think it's an airy-fairy emotion .. but it isn't, it's a survival device, not just for reproduction, but for the development of the human species into something truly, spiritually beautiful ...----------darling, the what you didn't see was that you can't be wrong by being humiliated (more on THAT later) by a one-sided love AND be wrong to see a new T who might destroy a budding love (that secret litle hope)
you give yourself a lose-lose scenario here...How can you be wrong in a one-sided love AND harbor (and maybe maliciously protect) that secret little hope?
You are burning yourself with both ends of this candle, love, and I can't bear to see it.
Can you, perhaps, allow yourself the permission to be confused? Do you have to make yourself WRONG? Especially when it appears unclear on exactly which point you COULD be wrong (because it clearly cannot be both- that would be a paradox).
And THAT, IMHO is what the new T is for. Don't let yourself be swayed by thoughts that just because she "knows" him, she will think you're crazy- OR that she, too, is in love with him... You are driving yourself MAD with these possiblities. Ask yourself in what context she might "know" him, anyway. "Knows" in the context that he is part of the same mental health community/ maybe she read a paper he wrote/ maybe she has merely been introduced to him by a mutual acquaintence? We don't know. I DO know that if I have been referred to the next T by the previous one, the T will make a validating comment about the previous T. If I have not been referred, I am asked who my previous T was, and the validation still comes out. I think it is more like a form of professional courtesy acknowledgment to the old T, mainly. And, for you, it is supposed to present a picture of cohesiveness. That your therapy may now continue.
okay, enough of that for now.... on to this humiliation cr*p......
In my opinion, one-sided love occurs when we attribute qualities/possibilities to a person that they don't really have. Not, as you suggest, the other way around. Your posts reads that one-sided love happens because you did (or are) something wrong. How could that be? We cannot be "missing" or "wrong" about something that the other individual is not even looking for. How can we be humiliated for not "being" what they are not looking for us to be in the first place?
I know I think conceptually and have difficulties writing stuff down in a linear fashion so that others understand- PLEASE do not use my horrible writing skills to make yourself feel like you're not reading it right....It's true, I get told I'm not understood ALL the time...
Worse part is that the concept is usually jumping through my chest by the time I can sort it out linearly and write it down- thus the GAD....too many thoughts, not enough brain matter...!
smiles,
sunny10
Posted by Susan47 on January 27, 2005, at 13:34:49
In reply to WHY ITS HUMILIATING, posted by Susan47 on January 27, 2005, at 13:03:04
...or maybe spirit doesn't exist, maybe love, as a survival device, simply opens the possiblity that we'll care for and understand each other can you imagine a world with just love? It means all this, we would learn not to disappoint ourselves with selfishness, cruelty, insensitivity. Which means no hunger, pollution, or hate. Which means no crime, addiction, mental illness. And because I love you and you love me, we become part of the Solution. What humanity IS capable of. Which means that LEARNING TO LOVE THE RIGHT PEOPLE is SO important because it starts a cycle of continuity ... but we've already messed it up so much, can we turn it around? One by one ...
Posted by Susan47 on January 27, 2005, at 13:48:45
In reply to Re: WHY ITS HUMILIATING, posted by Susan47 on January 27, 2005, at 13:34:49
Okay, yesterday I saw my ex-therapist in his office, briefly, very short time.. and he said I'd taken what happened between us in therapy, even though it didn't look successful, it didn't feel successful, it was broken and terrible, and I used that and made it work for me.
I already knew that.
But in saying what he did, he created an allowance for me to be helpful to myself, today, and to continue
to heal.
He resonates in me, I'm a string that vibrates to everything he says to me.
Posted by Susan47 on January 27, 2005, at 13:53:34
In reply to Re: WHY ITS HUMILIATING, posted by sunny10 on January 27, 2005, at 13:27:59
Ouch, ouch ouchouchouch I've never been any good at paradoxes please let it be I have no idea what you're trying to say at all and it's depressing me so I refuse to think about it. I like the way I interpreted love today, at least for me, and I can't read anymore about paradoxes and the last negative thing I said about love. I was wrong, I accept that I was wrong. Because I was afraid to just own up to the fact that I love someone because of who I think they are, not who they possibly might be, so it's true that the love isn't real, it's based on misconceptions. Love can't exist with knowledge of someone. There. How's that? Better?
Posted by Susan47 on January 27, 2005, at 13:58:52
In reply to Re: WHY ITS HUMILIATING » sunny10, posted by Susan47 on January 27, 2005, at 13:53:34
I know why I've never really been in love with anyone in my life before, ever. Including my parents my siblings, everyone. Love is much more serious than those attachments.
It means a validation of who I am.
A person who has to live up to who I know myself to be.
It takes a lot of knowledge of another to build love.
I've never known anyone I wanted to know long enough to build that knowledge that leads to loving.
Love starts to come, then it goes.
It never seems to outlast time,
or my growing self-knowledge.
Changes.
And awareness.
Posted by sunny10 on January 27, 2005, at 14:32:35
In reply to And now I know, posted by Susan47 on January 27, 2005, at 13:58:52
> I know why I've never really been in love with anyone in my life before, ever. Including my parents my siblings, everyone. Love is much more serious than those attachments.
*******Love is what we make it, some attachments are more important, thus more "serious"*******> It means a validation of who I am.
********No one can validate who you are other than you. Others can only offer to support you while you do this for yourself**************> A person who has to live up to who I know myself to be.
*****Only you can decide what your boundaries are, and have the right to demand that the person you are treating with loving respect also treat you with loving respect**********> It takes a lot of knowledge of another to build love.
> I've never known anyone I wanted to know long enough to build that knowledge that leads to loving.**********You have to know YOURSELF well enough to love another, and you need to give yourself permission to be wrong about people sometimes. Sometimes people AREN'T worthy of your love. And you have the right to feel badly that the relationship that you had hoped this would be didn't happen and that you have the right to keep trying until you find the one you can work with for the rest of your life.
> Love starts to come, then it goes.
> It never seems to outlast time,
> or my growing self-knowledge.
> Changes.
> And awareness.
>
**********And I truly hope that BOTH of us continue to grow, and change, and become more aware of toxic relationships of every kind. Including the worst one... the one we have with ourselves. I'm AWARE of mine- still a work in progress. And I think I am becoming more and more convinced that that's what we all are. Works in progress all of our lives; some kowledge comes easily, some takes longer to learn...Stick with me, Suze, we'll work on it together as we go along!
XOXOXOXOXOX
Sunny10
-I'll be logging off soon... I'll be back tomorrow.
Posted by Susan47 on January 27, 2005, at 15:54:38
In reply to And now I know, posted by Susan47 on January 27, 2005, at 13:58:52
someone should be standing there saying, "Don't forget to fall OUT of love when the time is right...."
love does always change, if you're lucky two people can change and grow together, but it doesn't always happen that way, I understand it's kind of rare today we have such a fast-paced world it's almost impossible to grow at the same rate in the same directions, or at least, complementary directions...
but if you fall out of love that's okay it's not sad it's an opportunity for growth for both people, love isn't sad either, it's not sad at all, because it's all about how you feel about you, and if you're the best you can be at any given time, then it's okay, it's good, your love will always be there.
Sheesh.
What a perspective.
Posted by Susan47 on January 27, 2005, at 15:56:42
In reply to Re: And now I know, posted by sunny10 on January 27, 2005, at 14:32:35
Sheesh, you're quite the pragmatist, Sunny, I thought that's exactly what I already said, every bit of it, and much much more.. but you have such a practical way of putting things. Which is okay, it's just harder for me to process today.
Posted by Susan47 on January 27, 2005, at 16:02:08
In reply to Re: And now I know, posted by sunny10 on January 27, 2005, at 14:32:35
"And you have the right to feel badly that the relationship that you had hoped this would be didn't happen and that you have the right to keep trying until you find the one you can work with for the rest of your life."
No, what I'm saying though, later in the day, later in time, later in my awareness, is that there may never be just one. It changes, all the time, with the changes in myself. Outgrowing someone .. I've heard that so often in my adult life .. why people break up... "Oh, I outgrew him" "I matured and he didn't".. stuff like that, and other reasons, too, it's just sad that the two people didn't grow together. Eventually, if enough differences in growth show up, there has to be dissonance to the point of something actually happening, something important. Whatever the something is, the two people will either come out of it stronger and more committed, or they'll continue to a course of separation.
And that's not a bad thing. Because it's more important to grow than it is to stay together and be unhappy or stuck.
Posted by Susan47 on January 27, 2005, at 16:09:34
In reply to Re: And now I know » sunny10, posted by Susan47 on January 27, 2005, at 16:02:08
I'm thinking that we use the concept of love to abuse each other in today's society. I'm thinking that very very few people actually understand what love is, how it works to protect us and make us better, and what a wonderful device was given to us...
Posted by sunny10 on January 28, 2005, at 8:22:36
In reply to Abuse of Love, posted by Susan47 on January 27, 2005, at 16:09:34
All of those posts were said perfectly. Yes, you DID say what I was saying- we must have been typing at the same time and didn't know it!
SOOOOOOOOOOOOO glad you are able to see these things more clearly-- and wow, your post regarding abuse of love was harsh, but oh, so true- I agree.
I think, mainly, that as a society, we mistake attraction and arousal with love.
You seem so much happier now than a couple of days ago. Is it possible that you are cycling? If a pdoc could help with the ups and downs that I've been nnoticing lately, you'd get even more out of your new T....
mwuh,
sunny10
This is the end of the thread.
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