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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 28. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by annierose on January 13, 2005, at 14:11:05
My wonderful T is psychodynamic in orientation. That's says a lot about why today's session was so frustrating. We spend the entire time, arguing (although that is too strong of a word ... maybe bantering is better) about the usefullness of free assoication. She thinks that it is about "I trust you, but I don't" issue. I think it is okay (more than okay) for her to ask more pointed questions. Seriously, we spent 45 minutes going back and forth. It all began when after a period of silence (maybe 3 minutes) she asked, "what's going through your mind?" BINGO ... there's that thread again .... irritating therapy questions. I shared my feelings on all of those questions ... rote. Of course she felt differently.
Anyway, bottom line question to you, do you free assoicate often? Isn't it so hard?
Her feelings: all of those seemingly small comments (her hair was done differently today, light was left on in her closet, sound of the constant rainfall behind me) all add up to a bigger picture. No, that tells me I'm floating away and need your help to be in the present moment working on something more important.
Posted by badhaircut on January 13, 2005, at 16:21:03
In reply to Free association and therapy, posted by annierose on January 13, 2005, at 14:11:05
My psychoanalyst (from years ago, when I tried that) said that free association was the goal, but that no one could ever do it. Or, not after the first 3/10 of a second on the couch. Problems, fears, conflicts, etc, kick in almost immediately and derail it. He said it was in such resistance that the worthwhile work of psychoanalysis could be done.
For example, I might think of something mundane, but then the associations to that innocent thought would freak me out, so I wouldn't say anything. My analyst said that the reasons WHY I wouldn't say what had popped into my head were the key to "illness."
I no longer think psychoanalysis is worthwhile (but I have respect for and mean no offense to analysts and analysands!). I do, however, think this focus on the resistance to what comes up from inside us is pretty much the key to relieving human psychological suffering.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 13, 2005, at 17:58:06
In reply to Free association and therapy, posted by annierose on January 13, 2005, at 14:11:05
A lot if not most of my time in therapy with this T and with another way back has had a lot of free associations in it...sure I have edited some of them hehe but for me it is easy to do..why I do not know,,,,maybe cause I talk and write that way...jumping around often....thinking of her hair and the rain and all...yes that is not thinking on the issues and didn't she ask you if that said anything to you??? We have snow now...sigh
> My wonderful T is psychodynamic in orientation. That's says a lot about why today's session was so frustrating. We spend the entire time, arguing (although that is too strong of a word ... maybe bantering is better) about the usefullness of free assoication. She thinks that it is about "I trust you, but I don't" issue. I think it is okay (more than okay) for her to ask more pointed questions. Seriously, we spent 45 minutes going back and forth. It all began when after a period of silence (maybe 3 minutes) she asked, "what's going through your mind?" BINGO ... there's that thread again .... irritating therapy questions. I shared my feelings on all of those questions ... rote. Of course she felt differently.
>
> Anyway, bottom line question to you, do you free assoicate often? Isn't it so hard?
>
> Her feelings: all of those seemingly small comments (her hair was done differently today, light was left on in her closet, sound of the constant rainfall behind me) all add up to a bigger picture. No, that tells me I'm floating away and need your help to be in the present moment working on something more important.
Posted by Annierose on January 13, 2005, at 18:16:32
In reply to one theory » annierose, posted by badhaircut on January 13, 2005, at 16:21:03
I think mt T would agree with most aspects of your old T's theory. My problem with totaling free associating (and not that she is asking to do this all of the time) is that it seems every session is starting completely from scratch. I'm not sure why I feel that way, but I do. I'm a personality type that would not work well under this dynamic, there are reasons why I edit, and I have shared those with her. But she can keep asking, and I'll keep trying, then resisting :)
Posted by Annierose on January 13, 2005, at 18:21:37
In reply to Re: Free association and therapy » annierose, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 13, 2005, at 17:58:06
Fallen -
Yes and No. She says it is her job to help me figure out how this all ties in together. She described it as putting a jigsaw puzzle together, with each of us finding different pieces, and with the "T" discovering the piece that doesn't seem to fit anywhere, but turns out to be an important piece (something like that). Hmmmm
I would really like to go to therapy one day with a few glasses of wine in me :)Yeppers, it's snowing here too now.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 13, 2005, at 19:08:38
In reply to Re: Free association and therapy » Fallen4MyT, posted by Annierose on January 13, 2005, at 18:21:37
HAHAHAH ON THE WINE Annie....I don't know but the way I see it it takes time for her as well as you to know how and where the pieces fit thus it seems like a dull or annoying session? If it bugs you a lot next time go in with something in mind and by pass the free deal :)
> Fallen -
> Yes and No. She says it is her job to help me figure out how this all ties in together. She described it as putting a jigsaw puzzle together, with each of us finding different pieces, and with the "T" discovering the piece that doesn't seem to fit anywhere, but turns out to be an important piece (something like that). Hmmmm
> I would really like to go to therapy one day with a few glasses of wine in me :)
>
> Yeppers, it's snowing here too now.
Posted by thewrite1 on January 13, 2005, at 20:09:59
In reply to Free association and therapy, posted by annierose on January 13, 2005, at 14:11:05
It works for me. I have a tendency to get wrapped up in my thoughts and try to sort through what I should or shouldn't say. My T used to let those long silences pass, but now she takes a more proactive stance. She'll usually say something like, "Would you like to share what you're feeling?" or an even more direct, "Talk to me." She's even went so far as to tell me that it doesn't matter if the words don't make any sense. I need that. If it wasn't for those gentle pushes, we'd sit there in silence a heck of a lot more often.
Posted by annierose on January 13, 2005, at 20:19:58
In reply to Re: Free association and therapy » annierose, posted by thewrite1 on January 13, 2005, at 20:09:59
Thank you for your reply. So you do mention even things that seem trival? Or if you have the thought "what are you wearing today? it doesn't match?" ... just as an example, something I would never say but I may have that thought.
Posted by thewrite1 on January 13, 2005, at 20:45:07
In reply to Re: Free association and therapy » thewrite1, posted by annierose on January 13, 2005, at 20:19:58
I have made some odd comments such as "those shoes don't look very comfortable." My T has learned to roll with it.
****This next bit could be triggering****For instance, I asked her once if she used a curling iron to curl the top of her hair. She's never actually avoided a question I've presented to her, but she was more interested than she might have been before just because of the course of some of the conversations we've had. She said that she doesn't use curling irons because all that heat scares her. I told her they scared me, too and she said, "but you have reason to be scared." I just nodded. Some other T may have taken that first comment I made and thought nothing of it. It was to my credit that she evolved to that degree. I told her once that she should be more willing to see in what directions things go, that she might be surprised--maybe both of us would be. I think she really took that comment to heart. She takes in pretty much everything now.
Posted by \gardenergirl on January 13, 2005, at 20:58:44
In reply to Re: Free association and therapy **trigger*** » annierose, posted by thewrite1 on January 13, 2005, at 20:45:07
My T also reminds me that it's okay if it doesn't make sense. Just talk. I never have trouble talking, (lol) but I do sometimes comment while I am that something I said is just "blathering" or "is stupid" or unrelated.
gg
Posted by Annierose on January 13, 2005, at 20:59:25
In reply to Re: Free association and therapy **trigger*** » annierose, posted by thewrite1 on January 13, 2005, at 20:45:07
Yes, I do understand what you mean. That's exactly my T's point. I'm just not sure I'm able to do this, but I do want to try. I think I feel too self conscious.
Posted by Annierose on January 13, 2005, at 21:22:15
In reply to Re: Free association and therapy, posted by \gardenergirl on January 13, 2005, at 20:58:44
GG -
If safety wasn't an issue (driving), and my T knew in advance, would it be so terrible to go to a session after having a glass of wine (keep in mind, I'm not much of a drinker, so one glass does wonders)?I'm a talker IRL, but in therapy, I'm more reserved. Those darn mother issues, they creep up everywhere!
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 14, 2005, at 0:04:52
In reply to Re: Free association and therapy » \gardenergirl, posted by Annierose on January 13, 2005, at 21:22:15
Annie I am not GG lol but I do not think many therapists would be thrilled at a client drinking anything just to do therapy....even if its hard to do....Do you take any meds like I take Valium now and then so sometimes if I knew sessions would be hard I would take one that would not be as frowned upon cause its by RX.....STILL seems a tad hypocritical
> GG -
> If safety wasn't an issue (driving), and my T knew in advance, would it be so terrible to go to a session after having a glass of wine (keep in mind, I'm not much of a drinker, so one glass does wonders)?
>
> I'm a talker IRL, but in therapy, I'm more reserved. Those darn mother issues, they creep up everywhere!
Posted by annierose on January 14, 2005, at 5:18:55
In reply to Re: Free association and therapy/ » Annierose, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 14, 2005, at 0:04:52
Fallen -
I'm talking about a one time deal. Just to see if it would help loosen me up a little. Curious.
I'm only on allergy medication, all that does he clog up my dripping nose!
Thanks for your thoughts as always,
Annierose
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 16, 2005, at 22:06:13
In reply to Re: Free association and therapy/ » Fallen4MyT, posted by annierose on January 14, 2005, at 5:18:55
I know what you mean but I am not sure if its a good idea....but then again it may do the trick to open the door
> Fallen -
> I'm talking about a one time deal. Just to see if it would help loosen me up a little. Curious.
> I'm only on allergy medication, all that does he clog up my dripping nose!
> Thanks for your thoughts as always,
> Annierose
Posted by annierose on January 17, 2005, at 6:48:54
In reply to Re: Free association and therapy/ » annierose, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 16, 2005, at 22:06:13
Fallen -
So are you frozen yet? Brrrr.Anyway, I have a lunch date with girlfriends this Thursday, and afterwards I see my T. I may order a glass of wine. Probably won't be a big difference as I will be eating lunch, and it will be 2 hours between. No biggie.
I am feeling more comfortable after reading everyone's replies about free association, knowing that it is hard for most poeple. I thought maybe it was just me.
I have an appt in a couple of hours. I'm going to give it my best and let you know how it goes.
What's the worse thing that can happen? (A question my T might ask?) She'll still be there for me no matter what.
Posted by gardenergirl on January 17, 2005, at 7:03:10
In reply to Re: Free association and therapy/ » Fallen4MyT, posted by annierose on January 17, 2005, at 6:48:54
Hi annierose,
Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. In general, I think using a substance (other than your meds) to help you open up in therapy is not a good idea. I can see the attraction, definitely, especially if you are frustrated.And your lunch sounds fine. I don't think I would have a problem with that. I did see someone once for a "crisis" intevention who turned out to be drunk. Um, I don't think he was going to remember much of what was said. The police were a much better tool for making sure he was safe. Not that you were planning to go drunk! I'm not comparing you to this guy.
At any rate, you might try some relaxation techniques before your session. Can you sit in your car (brrrr! keep the heat on...) or sit in the waiting room and practice meditation, deep breathing, or progressive muscle relaxation?
Good luck. I know it's hard.
gg
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 17, 2005, at 16:04:34
In reply to Re: Free association and therapy/ » Fallen4MyT, posted by annierose on January 17, 2005, at 6:48:54
I have been kinda worried on you I figured no posts by her today and I will have to start a thread with WHERE IS ANNIEROSE ....YES I AM FROZen I am very very cold.....very let me tell you...my poor cat crawled under my 3 comforters lol.....Maybe your T will just sit there and go...hmm mmm .....I see./....uhhh huh.....tell me more :) easier yes :) Well that should be fun Annie to go to lunch and do relaxing stuff before T..she will be cool I have no doubt and the wine will not make you too buzzed with eating and all..Oh you have to let us know
HUGS
> Fallen -
> So are you frozen yet? Brrrr.
>
> Anyway, I have a lunch date with girlfriends this Thursday, and afterwards I see my T. I may order a glass of wine. Probably won't be a big difference as I will be eating lunch, and it will be 2 hours between. No biggie.
>
> I am feeling more comfortable after reading everyone's replies about free association, knowing that it is hard for most poeple. I thought maybe it was just me.
>
> I have an appt in a couple of hours. I'm going to give it my best and let you know how it goes.
> What's the worse thing that can happen? (A question my T might ask?) She'll still be there for me no matter what.
Posted by annierose on January 17, 2005, at 16:59:16
In reply to Re: Free association and therapy/ » annierose, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 17, 2005, at 16:04:34
Thanks to both of you -
I have been lieing low lately. My brain is so full trying to process this therapy life, that I need to make room for my kids + husband too.Today went pretty well. I did manage to share more of my passing thoughts than usual today. I would prefix each comment, "this is really uncomfortable to say ..." or "it's hard to share ...". And she was very supportive and reflective and gave me some ideas to ponder. However ... the session ended on a different note.
She asked me, "what qualities have you internalized about yourself from your childhood?"
(something like that). One quality among others I stated was I didn't feel I was very pretty. I come from a family of 5 children (2 sisters, 2 brothers) and I was the plainest girl (on purpose, I didn't want any undue attention from my father). So I'm sure she was being nice and all, when she said, "Annie, I don't think that about you, you are very tall, have striking features, full bodied hair." Seriously, those are not exactly flattering comments in my humble opinion. I started to cry and told her "I wish you wouldn't have said anything." And her reply was "I think it's uncomfortable for you because you never heard nice things before." Then time was up.Well, that's not true. We were talking about the past. And I made it clear that I didn't believe that about myself now. I struggle with my self image, yes, but I feel prettier now than I did as a child. In fact, of my 2 sisters, I think I'm the prettiest (how bold of a comment is that?).
And although well meaning, her comments, "striking features" is like saying, "well there are some parts of you that are striking" ... she qualified her comment. And nice hair? OMG ... my hair is a MESS! It only looks nice once a month when I get my color re-done or cut. I guess she is right. It's hard to take in compliments. But it would have been nicer to hear, "Annie, I think you are striking (period). You're tall, thin (I'm wishing now ... I identified with that liposuction thread/ but I'm in good shape)."As I said, I'm over-thinking right now. Glad I'm going 3x per week (reason why over thinking is probably kicking in). But I did feel closer to her sharing more of my passing thoughts.
Thanks for thinking of me. I'm trying to stay warm. We had the kids make s'mores in the fireplace on Saturday night. Always a special treat, and I made some too!!
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 17, 2005, at 17:16:36
In reply to Re: Free association and therapy/GG » Fallen4MyT, posted by annierose on January 17, 2005, at 16:59:16
I feel badly for you on the looks comment but wanted to say and I am dead serious no maple syrup here....that to many people full bodied hair and striking features ARE a high compliment..she may have feared the vague flat your striking because to many not all but many that vagueness would seem insincere...For example..I myself an very pretty but it's nice ..or nicer to hear when I get a compliment to hear I love your big green eyes and your hair...more so than wow youre pretty..I am wondering if thats what and why she did that...and yes at the next session....tell her why you cried no not let that misunderstanding stand...Sounds like fun with the kids..my poor dog is limping I dont know why.... :*(
HUGE HUGS
Posted by annierose on January 17, 2005, at 21:45:26
In reply to ((( annie)) and a comment, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 17, 2005, at 17:16:36
Fallen -
Thanks again. I will talk to her tomorrow about the looks comments. You are probably right. She wanted to be more specific, but it didn't ring true for me ... especially because my hair ... well, I don't like it. It's not full bodied, at least, I wouldn't say that it was.Upside, I'm really working hard at being honest with myself and her. And she has helped me with my relationship with my husband. After the "Bacholorette" tonight, I opened up a serious conversation and he walked away ... saying he wasn't in the mood. I pursued harder. He walked away again, then came back 15 minutes later, kissed me and was willing to talk. I was shocked!! Her advice worked. She said that when one spouse seeks change in a marriage, the partner will usually push back harder (seeking status quo) until they realize that you mean business. Baby steps.
Thank you for your on-going support.
I think I'm sleeping with my socks on tonight :)
And what's going on with your dog? Is he okay??
Maybe frostbite in his paw?
Annierose
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 17, 2005, at 22:23:17
In reply to Re: ((( annie)) and a comment » Fallen4MyT, posted by annierose on January 17, 2005, at 21:45:26
Annie youre always welcome and are so sweet and supportive of all I just hope we can help even a tad. Thing on the hair gig is..just today I SWEAR..I said to a girl at McDonalds that I know, how much I love her hair..and I do..I want spiral curls and my hair cannot hold them....she said..I hate my hair...and she did....but I do.
On the Bacholorette they slipped and gave the winner on some show on VH1 lol...I won't say...I promise lips are sealed.
Your T is wise cause I have read that too on marriage and change...once I read some men will do everything they can to MAKE their wives gain weight if they start to diet,,I know this is on and off topic....because change threatens them...I am sure this applies both ways....I looked at my doggies foot and no its like his wrist ..I think a sprain I keep having him XRAYED ...mom worries lol...cause he does this limp gig now and then this is a 24 hr limp the longest yet...my vet said growing pains....We shall see..I guess it doesnt help that he keeps jumping on it he is only 10 months old and at 70 pounds I cannot keep him still :P Good for you and therapy techiques you used....let me know on this next session.
Oh and I hear ya on the socks I slept in them last night those mega soft ones from Marshall Fields for nightwear.,.BTW MY DOG JUST JUMPED OVER ME AND ONTO THE SOFA...GRRR LOL
> Fallen -
> Thanks again. I will talk to her tomorrow about the looks comments. You are probably right. She wanted to be more specific, but it didn't ring true for me ... especially because my hair ... well, I don't like it. It's not full bodied, at least, I wouldn't say that it was.
>
> Upside, I'm really working hard at being honest with myself and her. And she has helped me with my relationship with my husband. After the "Bacholorette" tonight, I opened up a serious conversation and he walked away ... saying he wasn't in the mood. I pursued harder. He walked away again, then came back 15 minutes later, kissed me and was willing to talk. I was shocked!! Her advice worked. She said that when one spouse seeks change in a marriage, the partner will usually push back harder (seeking status quo) until they realize that you mean business. Baby steps.
>
> Thank you for your on-going support.
> I think I'm sleeping with my socks on tonight :)
> And what's going on with your dog? Is he okay??
> Maybe frostbite in his paw?
> Annierose
Posted by annierose on January 18, 2005, at 7:33:01
In reply to Re: ((( annie)) and a comment » annierose, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 17, 2005, at 22:23:17
Fallen -
At the risk of being moved to social, please do tell who VH1 says Jen picks. After last night, I'd send them all home. All losers, but maybe we haven't seen the smart, talented, worthwhile side yet.
Back to therapy ... another session today. I'll keep working on the free association thing.
My T goes on vacation next week. Then when she gets back, I'll be in New York City on business. Timing ... not always perfect.
Hey, pats on my back please. I went out for my morning walk at 6:30 am, -2 degrees ... tomorrow, maybe I should use my treadmill. :)
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 18, 2005, at 19:05:27
In reply to Re: Do Tell » Fallen4MyT, posted by annierose on January 18, 2005, at 7:33:01
Hey Annie :) they were talking with her like an interview and the lady with the microphone...said and it was a mistake....well we all know you picked Wendell or Winchell OR SOME name like that...they had been talking on the poor dude that passed out....sooooo its some guy with a name like that. At least thats what she said and tHAT Jen gal looked freaked and Ms. Mic was like shocked faced and changed subjects fast.
I still cannot believe you walked in this weather..OMG you are working hard at this....yes lol use the treadmill .....yikes its cold out now I cannot imagine that early in the morn...
Ohhhhhh, how do you feel on this T vacation then your vacation deal??? I am guessing not good :( bad bad timing ..can you phone therapy???> Fallen -
> At the risk of being moved to social, please do tell who VH1 says Jen picks. After last night, I'd send them all home. All losers, but maybe we haven't seen the smart, talented, worthwhile side yet.
> Back to therapy ... another session today. I'll keep working on the free association thing.
> My T goes on vacation next week. Then when she gets back, I'll be in New York City on business. Timing ... not always perfect.
> Hey, pats on my back please. I went out for my morning walk at 6:30 am, -2 degrees ... tomorrow, maybe I should use my treadmill. :)
Posted by annierose on January 18, 2005, at 20:15:41
In reply to Re: Do Tell/ T.V SPOILER..... WARNING » annierose, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 18, 2005, at 19:05:27
Yes, there is a dude named Wendell and she did seem to connect with him the best, but he isn't very good looking (how shallow am I). We shall see.
Therapy continues to improve. I'm really being BRAVE and telling her thoughts I normally wouldn't share. More pats on back please :)
The vacation part doesn't bother me too much. She didn't take off at all in December and I want her to take care of herself (these T's do so much for others). It will only be 12 days without seeing her, but who's counting?????? LOL I feel we're having some bonding sessions lately. Instead of lieing down, I'm sitting, and I'm enjoying that for now.Yes, tomorrow it will be the treadmill! YIKES! I just can't get warm in my own house ... lots of layers!!
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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