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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Speaker on January 12, 2005, at 15:38:48
My T has offered to to call and check in between sessions. I must tell you a bit of history before you can help. I have been with this T about a year and when I started it was months before I asked him about his phone rules. I thought I shouldn't call in between since he didn't offer. This was extremely hard due to the fact my previous T was always reassuring me I should call if anything came up that he could help me with. The new T assured me if I NEEDED him in between sessions he was WILLING to take me call...not all that heartwarming, and really hurtful since I wanted him to want to know my pain and help me with it. Now after some time and things being more intense and a few talks about his less than comforting phone policies. He offered that he is WILLING to do a check in between weekly sessions...whatever! I speak in front of thousands of people daily so I have plenty of people to listen to me. I want someone to want to listen not just be WILLING. Am I being to harsh or do you think my T is just giving me what he thinks I NEED again?
Posted by daisym on January 12, 2005, at 16:32:11
In reply to T calling between sessions...what do you think?, posted by Speaker on January 12, 2005, at 15:38:48
I need to make this quick because I have to run...and late isn't just "late" as you know...BUT, I think you are getting caught up in the semantics. He can't say "I want to" it has to be your choice. Willing implies an acceptance on his side if YOU want to. That way you aren't pleasing him because he wants to...does this make any sense?
The question really is, do you think that the check in calls would be helpful? And does he have a phone manner that works. I find phone check ins very helpful. Dinah doesn't seem to.
I'll think about this as I drive...
Posted by mair on January 12, 2005, at 16:48:14
In reply to T calling between sessions...what do you think?, posted by Speaker on January 12, 2005, at 15:38:48
Maybe I'm just cynical, but it seems to me if he checks in with you, he's determining when the contact is and not the other way around. I could maybe see it as a good gesture if you were coming off a rough session, but maybe not as a usual occurrence.
Did you call your previous therapist alot? I think this is a tough one for Ts because they really don't want people calling all the time unless it's appropriate in the context of the therapy, but their less than warm and fuzzy policies don't distinguish between those who might call too much, and those who are so inhibited that they'd never call. I definitely fit into this latter category, so I'd probably err on the side of not calling for fear of calling at a time when my T might deem it to be unnecessary.
My T discussed with me the possibility of making it a regular homework assignment for me to call her, just to help me get over my inhibition about it. I didn't do it because it didn't feel genuine; I suspect that having her call me on a regular basis would seem strange also. I'd far rather have her take the initiative of reminding me that calling her is ok, particularly when I'm not in great shape. I've really had to teach her that this is what she needs to do - I think in her mind she didn't need to say it because it was assumed. I would never make that assumption without alot of encouragement.
Mair
Posted by Speaker on January 12, 2005, at 17:09:25
In reply to Re: T calling between sessions...what do you think? » Speaker, posted by mair on January 12, 2005, at 16:48:14
Mair,
I didn't call my previous T and that is why he was consistantly reminding me it would be OK if I did. This T seems to just do what he thinks I need and it feels like it is systematic. I really like him but he is not a warm fuzzy at all. I am probably overthinking this but it really bugs me. Thanks for your input!
Posted by mair on January 12, 2005, at 17:31:07
In reply to Re: T calling between sessions...what do you think? » mair, posted by Speaker on January 12, 2005, at 17:09:25
Speaker - I've been seeing my T for about 5 years, but I've only very recently started to see her as being warm and fuzzy. My guess is that everyone else who knows her, whether friend or patient, sees her as being a warm person. It's only been in the last couple of weeks that I seem to be able to believe her when she says she cares about me.
I think the whole telephone issue and my initial impression of her as a person who didn't want to be bothered by her patients out of session, probably set us back a ton because it established an internal wall that we've been working to break down ever since. I don't for an instance discount what you're saying, because you sound a little like me, but it may be mostly just the way you experience your T and not the way he necessarily is.
It's probably worth continuing to explore with him.
Mair
Posted by Dinah on January 12, 2005, at 18:51:17
In reply to T calling between sessions...what do you think?, posted by Speaker on January 12, 2005, at 15:38:48
FWIW, and mind you, my therapist is awful on the phone, but if there's anything worse than him on the phone when I call him, it's him on the phone when he calls me even if we agreed on the exact time of the call in. I just am not in the proper frame of mind, and it's usually a real let down even by his standards.
BTW, my therapist has carefully cultivated his bad phone technique as a way to cut down on "unneccessary" between session calls. Once I proved myself willing to pay, he's tried to be better, but old habits are hard to break. That doesn't mean he doesn't care, exactly. Although he's not exactly a warm fuzzy, he is very caring in his own way.
I figure you have to judge the relationship as a whole. (But yes, it still bugs me.)
Posted by daisym on January 12, 2005, at 19:35:11
In reply to Re: T calling between sessions...what do you think? » Speaker, posted by mair on January 12, 2005, at 16:48:14
>>>>Maybe I'm just cynical, but it seems to me if he checks in with you, he's determining when the contact is and not the other way around. I could maybe see it as a good gesture if you were coming off a rough session, but maybe not as a usual occurrence.
There are two ways to look at this. Part of the value of predetermined check-ins is that they allow the client to plan to be available to take the call. And making the agreement face-to-face saves the client from the later issue of "do I feel bad enough NOW" to "need" to call...
My therapist tried an "experiment" with me, similar to mair's proposed homework. He wanted me to call him if I felt I needed him, even if I didn't know why I needed him or what I wanted from him. To have the thought float into my head that I'd like to touch base with him was enough to warrant a call, during our "experiment." This was his way of helping me learn to reach out for support. It has worked, (she grins wryly.)
But I think Mair also has a point about letting the client call first. We do this on Friday. We usually talk about a Friday check in (if I need it) and compare schedules. But we leave it loose and if I need him, I call and say something like, I'll be here or here, or on the cell phone. This translates into "call me." The value of this check in is that it prevents me from getting really closed up over the weekend because by Monday I'm a stone wall again.
Amazing how much agony goes into such a simply thing as calling, isn't it?
Posted by TofuEmmy on January 12, 2005, at 19:35:49
In reply to Re: T calling between sessions...what do you think? » Speaker, posted by Dinah on January 12, 2005, at 18:51:17
I would only call my T if I drove by his office and saw it was ablaze. First I'd call 911, then I'd call him. Under no other circumstances would I call his emergency number. Well, OK, if I passed him on the street, and noticed that HE was ablaze...I'd page him for that.
Em
Posted by lonelygal on January 12, 2005, at 20:30:14
In reply to Re: T calling between sessions...what do you think?, posted by TofuEmmy on January 12, 2005, at 19:35:49
you made me laugh. thank you thank you.
> I would only call my T if I drove by his office and saw it was ablaze. First I'd call 911, then I'd call him. Under no other circumstances would I call his emergency number. Well, OK, if I passed him on the street, and noticed that HE was ablaze...I'd page him for that.
>
>
> Em
Posted by TofuEmmy on January 12, 2005, at 21:27:49
In reply to Re: T calling between sessions...what do you think? » TofuEmmy, posted by lonelygal on January 12, 2005, at 20:30:14
Oh good. My mission is accomplished. I knew I was supposed to make SOMEONE laugh today, I just didn't know who it was.
:-)
Posted by LG04 on January 12, 2005, at 23:08:18
In reply to Re: T calling between sessions...what do you think? » lonelygal, posted by TofuEmmy on January 12, 2005, at 21:27:49
Calling really is an agonizing thing. My therapist and I tried so many different things to get me to be comfortable calling her. I did get more comfortable - maybe TOO comfortable! - as i think i also got more dependent from it. but boy did she help me thru some extremely painful times by being able to call her whenever i needed.
i'll never forget that when i was so incredibly anxious about starting group therapy for csa, she offered to call me each week after the session for a 10-15 minutes check-in, so i wouldn't have to go to bed without having a short time to process it. and the meetings ended at 10:30 p.m. at night! it's one of the nicest things she's ever done. the group lasted for four months and she never missed a call. and she definitely did it for me, for my needs, but for me that's what was so touching.
she's good on the phone, though she's also makes more "mistakes" with me over the phone.
even now, when we are long distance and i call her twice a week at predetermined times, i still worry about calling outside of those times (partially because we've worked at reducing my dependency and so i work hard at sticking to twice a week...actually some weeks it's not such hard work, other times it is). last week i was upset with her about something, i already forgot what it was, but i called her and said i only have 5 minutes to talk but i need to check something out with her from our prior phone call. then SHE got frustrated that i only had five minutes! (i.e. i opened something up yet said we only have five minutes to talk about it). well i had to admit to her that i had made it up, i actually had 30 minutes but i didn't want to be bothering her so i pretended i only had five minutes.
this is after two years of a very close, intense, extremely open, and loving therapeutic relationship.
yes, calling is a complicated thing.
Posted by LG04 on January 12, 2005, at 23:19:42
In reply to T calling between sessions...what do you think?, posted by Speaker on January 12, 2005, at 15:38:48
speaker, i understand how you feel. that would bother me too. i'd rather hear, "i'd be happy to do check-ins with you," or "of course you can call me if you need to." i'm very sensitive to the way someone words something as well as the tone of their voice.
a few weeks ago when i went to a new therapist, and she was asking me all those "history" questions, she came to the part about abuse. i told her that i wasn't comfortable answering that question b/c i hardly know her and it's not something i speak about so easily. i also said that i hadn't even had an opportunity to ask her anything about herself. (i hate when therapists ask you all these private and potentially triggering or painful questions the first session and before they even offer you the opportunity to ask them questions, to get to know them a tinsy bit before you open up your life story to them. just because they have a sign on their door that says "therapist" or whatever, i am supposed to trust them the first time i meet them?). i answered the same way when she asked about hospitalizations. she did stop and said i could ask her anything i wanted. but it was like, "ask me whatever you want so then we can get back to these questions."
well at the end of the session, i asked her something and she said, "well i don't know yet because you weren't willing to answer certain questions." and that just made me so mad. maybe it was also the tone of her voice. and i said, "i think the better word is that i wasn't READY to answer certain questions."
i don't even know if this relates to your dilemma. i thought it did because of the idea of being willing or not to do something. i just don't like the word "willing." so i'm with you speaker.
sorry i don't have any suggestions. but i do have empathy for your frustration/hurt.
LGp.s. i didn't go back to that therapist.
Posted by Shortelise on January 13, 2005, at 0:47:33
In reply to T calling between sessions...what do you think?, posted by Speaker on January 12, 2005, at 15:38:48
Speaker,
Have you said to your T, hey, buddy, I need to feel you care about me and I don't feel that way. Why? Do you not care about me? Or do you care in a way that is difficult to perceive? Or do you care in an obvious way but I am too finking fritzy to see it? Or is there some other explanation to which I am insensible? Hmm, Dr Dr?
It could be all in your head, y'know, transference, projection, more of the mysterious general caca we cook up around our T's. But if you two can't zoom in on this central issue and work it through, you're going to have a hard time of it.
Ugh, Speaker, I send you a great long warm hug full of comfort and caring. Wrap yourself up in it, and go talk about this.
Sorry if I am being bossy, it just seems so clear, and I have one very nasty migraine coming on and should be taking a dose of Percocet and going to bed. I hope you aren't offended, and if you are, I apologize, but send this anyway as I'd sooner take the chance of saying the wrong thing than take a chance of it being the right thing and no one saying it.
Posted by Speaker on January 13, 2005, at 18:03:04
In reply to Re: T calling between sessions...what do you think? » Speaker, posted by Shortelise on January 13, 2005, at 0:47:33
This is the end of the thread.
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