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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by daisym on July 23, 2004, at 15:18:36
In reply to Re: Use of dramatic language » AuntieMel, posted by Miss Honeychurch on July 23, 2004, at 15:06:04
There is actually a lot of psychology about the words people use...or don't use. We talked about word origins yesterday and freudian slips. I think we reveal more than we think by how we phrase things. This is the whole idea about free associating...what words come to mind.
My therapist likes to pick up on the word "wrong." I'll say something feels wrong...and that starts the whole "why? What else is associated? (fear, anger, pain)" etc. It often takes us into an intense discussion that I didn't expect.
On the other hand, I often tell him, "late is sometimes "just" late!"
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on July 23, 2004, at 15:22:00
In reply to Re: Use of dramatic language, posted by daisym on July 23, 2004, at 15:18:36
I have to chose my words so carefully with him. One slip of a "should" and I get the speech about should/must thinking. He NEVER lets one go by!
Posted by Susan47 on July 23, 2004, at 16:09:28
In reply to Use of dramatic language, posted by Miss Honeychurch on July 23, 2004, at 13:29:30
Omigod I'm one of those dramatic people. Emotionally neglected?
Thanks for your post It's good input.
Posted by AuntieMel on July 23, 2004, at 16:14:54
In reply to Re: Use of dramatic language » AuntieMel, posted by Miss Honeychurch on July 23, 2004, at 15:06:04
Flip him out....next time say 'you're **always** complaining about my language'
Then duck.
Posted by toomuchpain on July 23, 2004, at 16:46:56
In reply to Re: Use of dramatic language » Miss Honeychurch, posted by AuntieMel on July 23, 2004, at 16:14:54
well i my old t never had a problem wit it ... my new t just gives me a strnage look like she dont like alot of things i say but she never really says anything
Posted by ghost on July 23, 2004, at 17:55:12
In reply to Use of dramatic language, posted by Miss Honeychurch on July 23, 2004, at 13:29:30
i remember in 1st grade, we used to "cook" something once a week and someone once said "i hate this (whatever it was)" and my teacher said "hate is a very strong word. you should say you *dislike* it." ever since then, i've been very careful when i use the word "hate."
but i hate hot weather, too. and i hate stupid people. and i hate being sick. and i *hate* people who just. don't. get. it!
ghost.
Posted by gardenergirl on July 23, 2004, at 18:19:52
In reply to Re: Use of dramatic language » Miss Honeychurch, posted by AuntieMel on July 23, 2004, at 16:14:54
Oh lord, my T really picks up on language. With me it's the word "weird." That always prompts further digging.
And once I said something wasn't particularly earth-shattering. He jumped all over that. "Do you really WANT the earth to shatter?" Well duh! No. But of course it did lead to some interesting insights.
And the slogan for the dept.'s softball team: Sometimes a bat is just a bat.
I love it!
gg
Posted by Dinah on July 23, 2004, at 18:21:35
In reply to Re: Use of dramatic language, posted by gardenergirl on July 23, 2004, at 18:19:52
Good heavens! Not only does my therapist not comment on things like that, but he probably talks that way himself. :)
I rather thought everyone did. Do I come from an especially expressive area of the country?
Posted by DaisyM on July 23, 2004, at 18:48:46
In reply to Re: Use of dramatic language » Miss Honeychurch, posted by ghost on July 23, 2004, at 17:55:12
How about:
"I'm ALWAYS HATE figuring out what I SHOULD do, because I'm always LATE making my move and it ends up being WRONG anyway. But, that probably isn't EARTH-SHATTERING news to you...and it DOESN'T MATTER ANYWAY."
now there is a sentence with words to pick on! :)
Posted by AuntieMel on July 23, 2004, at 20:00:41
In reply to Re: Use of dramatic language, posted by Dinah on July 23, 2004, at 18:21:35
What area (generally, don't give too much away) are you from?
We talk that way in south texas, too.
Posted by AuntieMel on July 23, 2004, at 20:01:41
In reply to Re: Use of dramatic language, posted by DaisyM on July 23, 2004, at 18:48:46
Posted by Dinah on July 23, 2004, at 20:26:05
In reply to Re: Use of dramatic language, posted by AuntieMel on July 23, 2004, at 20:00:41
Why, I'm a southerner of course. Or Suthenuh...
Can't you tell? :)
Posted by gardenergirl on July 23, 2004, at 20:41:16
In reply to Re: Use of dramatic language, posted by DaisyM on July 23, 2004, at 18:48:46
Posted by AuntieMel on July 23, 2004, at 21:13:57
In reply to Re: Use of dramatic language » AuntieMel, posted by Dinah on July 23, 2004, at 20:26:05
Well, that obviously wasn't the way we were brought up, now was it Miss Scarlet.
Posted by Dinah on July 23, 2004, at 21:18:26
In reply to Re: regional language » Dinah, posted by AuntieMel on July 23, 2004, at 21:13:57
I actually have a theory that a lot of misunderstandings have a cultural basis. I suspect some people think I'm hypocritical, and I wonder how much of that is a regional thing. I'm just Southern.
And I've had a couple of mental health professionals that I found unbelievably abrasive. Both happened to be from the Northeast, while my beloved therapist is even more Southern than I am, and tends to be even more indirect in his style of speaking.
I hate to generalize, because I don't think you can apply stereotypes to everyone in a region. But I do wonder if there aren't some cultural norms down here that can be misconstrued elsewhere.
Posted by AuntieMel on July 23, 2004, at 21:22:26
In reply to Re: regional language » AuntieMel, posted by Dinah on July 23, 2004, at 21:18:26
You bet there are regional differences!!!!
I come from a long line of suthnas. Hubby is from Long Island. Most squabbles are because things he says that he thinks are direct I take as rude.
25 years later, we're still working on that.
Posted by DaisyM on July 23, 2004, at 22:03:12
In reply to Re: regional language » Dinah, posted by AuntieMel on July 23, 2004, at 21:22:26
guess I'm glad I'm from eclectic California. Nothing is too far out here!!
Posted by AuntieMel on July 23, 2004, at 23:11:48
In reply to Re: regional language, posted by DaisyM on July 23, 2004, at 22:03:12
Beg your pardon? (Southern) Californians are the ones that I have the hardest time communicating with. (wink)
Posted by Poet on July 23, 2004, at 23:17:50
In reply to Use of dramatic language, posted by Miss Honeychurch on July 23, 2004, at 13:29:30
My T has never commented on the word hate, unless it's self hatred. I can say I hate hot weather, hate being unemployed, I just can't say I hate myself. Or ask her why she doesn't hate me. Or give her reasons why she should hate me...
Poet
Posted by JenStar on July 24, 2004, at 13:36:01
In reply to Re: regional language » AuntieMel, posted by Dinah on July 23, 2004, at 21:18:26
I agree with you whole-heartedly. Different cultures have HUGE differences in interaction, and it's easy to get offended if you don't recongize the differences.At work we used to spend much time working with people from Israel (phone conferences, bus. trips.) The company offered an internal class called 'working with Israelis' because the style of confrontation and argument there was different from US-style. US workers tended to get offended easily because the Israeli workers would ask very pointed questions, offer pointed advice, and get 'right down to brass tacks' without wasting time on pleasantries and w/ot couching their suggestions in flowery language or the common "it's just my opinion but" and "I don't know if you'll like this but," stuff.
Of course we all got along fine once we learned to work with each other (it was esp. hard for "newhires" just out of college, b/c they didn't have a lot of experience working with different people & cultures in general.)
On a smaller level, I agree that there are cultural diff. w/in the US in different parts of the country. Sometimes it's hard to get used to the brisk no-nonsense attitude of the east coast when you're used to the laid-back west coast.
Your email reminds me to stay open-minded and not to assume the worst about people -- reminds me to think of cultural & locational differences!
thanks!
JenStar
> I actually have a theory that a lot of misunderstandings have a cultural basis. I suspect some people think I'm hypocritical, and I wonder how much of that is a regional thing. I'm just Southern.
>
> And I've had a couple of mental health professionals that I found unbelievably abrasive. Both happened to be from the Northeast, while my beloved therapist is even more Southern than I am, and tends to be even more indirect in his style of speaking.
>
> I hate to generalize, because I don't think you can apply stereotypes to everyone in a region. But I do wonder if there aren't some cultural norms down here that can be misconstrued elsewhere.
Posted by JenStar on July 24, 2004, at 13:42:32
In reply to Use of dramatic language, posted by Miss Honeychurch on July 23, 2004, at 13:29:30
Sometimes I use a 'blanket' overused work like HATE because it's easier than describing the complexity of my REAL feelings.
For example, "I just HATE my neighbor across the street" is JenStar code for
"I feel guilty every time I see the neighbor because I spoke firmly and somewhat harshly at him for letting his dog poop on my lawn w/o scooping it while I was directly watching, and even though I was RIGHT and he was WRONG and he had let the dog poop many times, I wish I had approached it differently, and now we're awkward around each other, and although I think he's irritating and annoying and rude, I'm worried that he's friends with the OTHER neighbor and in fact is telling the other neighbor that I'M Rude and obnoxious (maybe sometimes, yes, but not always!) And why does his wife always have to back out of the driveway w/out looking? It irritates me...she almost hit me again the other day!
So..maybe your T just suspects you have a wealth of info to share lurking behind that "hate" word.
(But I really do hate my neighbor! Sort of...!!)
JenStar
> Do any of you have problems with this? I made an innocent comment in therapy yesterday that I hated hot weather. So we spent 10 minutes on this. "hate is a strong word, Laurel." But I do this all the time. I dramatize and exagerrate all of my feelings. My T says this is typical of emotionally neglected people. When I was a child I would have to exagerrate everything in order to get parental attention.
>
> Anyway, I find the language thing really hard to break.
>
> Anyone else deal with this?
Posted by daisym on July 24, 2004, at 18:13:19
In reply to Re: regional language » DaisyM, posted by AuntieMel on July 23, 2004, at 23:11:48
Southern Ca should be a different state...if not a different country entirely. As a NORTHERN Cal person, don't get me started about them draining the state resources, water AND electing a movie star governor...and a REPUBLICAN at that!!! Racer, back me up. I can't imagine what therapy in southern cal might look like, probably done in flip-flops. :)
Posted by Racer on July 25, 2004, at 13:43:48
In reply to Racer, help me here!, posted by daisym on July 24, 2004, at 18:13:19
LoL! Flip-flops, sure -- but rhinestone studded flip-flops!
Esse quam videri -- the Northern California State Motto: to be rather than to seem.
As for dramatic language, that's a hot button for me, too. I come by it honestly, but I'm also very, very sensitive to doing it, and very insecure about it.
Lemme take those in parts:
How did I come by it? Well, my mother was born on a different planet... Racer's Mom does not believe in the germ theory of disease -- all disease is caused by bad character, and a child's illness reflects badly on her parent. Therefore, any complaints of ill-health must be psychological in origin (someone tell me how that's better?), and Little Racer experienced a fair amount of trouble convincing anyone she was not feeling well. Oh, yeah, and got to hear she was a hypochondriac throughout childhood, too. I went to school with mumps -- school nurse called my mother to come get me, and scolded her for sending me to school that way, too. Mother was quite upset by that, since she really didn't believe there was anything wrong with me, and embarrassed to have someone think she might not have been a good enough mother. I got chicken pox at summer camp -- the camp called my mother, but decided to keep me there after talking to her. I was six, so I don't know what happened, but I think they decided that it was safest for me to stay with them, rather than trust me to my mother when I was sick. Can't remember their names, but remember their faces quite well. Bless them for that kindness. Nearly died at 13 from a raging infection that interfered with my ability to breathe. Survived because I managed to get myself to the hospital on the bus -- barely -- and they had to wait to admit me until my mother showed up to give permission.
So, I come by it honestly. Saying, "I'm not feeling so well" didn't provoke anything beyond criticism. Saying, "I think I'm going to die" would sometimes get some sort of response...
My sensitivity comes from two things: one is growing up with a lot of non-native English speakers, who tended to explore language a lot -- and criticise careless children on the subject. Saying, "Oh, this headache is unbearable" would just make it worse, since someone was sure to jump in with some variation on 'and yet you are bearing it...' I learned to be very careful in the words I chose to describe my experiences in the world.
But I also got a lot of criticism for being melodramatic, so I tend to understate my distress most of the time -- until I hit critical mass and grossly overstate it. (Frankly, that's also the case of my depressive symptoms -- I'll go from moderate depression to actively suicidal without much in between. I think it's the same mechanism being expressed in different ways.) And the criticism is so deeply internalized that I feel overwhelmed by shame as soon as something comes out of my mouth that I recognize as an overstatement -- even in situations where I know that my more moderated statements of distress have been ignored, and this is the only way I can draw attention to my *needs*.
(Heheheh, this came up a lot with The Nightmare Therapist From Hell a few months ago -- saying anything in a moderate manner got no response whatsoever, so I'd get to hysterics to try to get a point across -- only to have her idiotic, "oh, that's just not right, dear" response to my choice of words rather than the content. Machts nichts -- I still feel ashamed that I overstated reality, even though I *know* she was Not A Good Therapist For Me.)
I think there has to be a balance. Yes, "hate" is a strong word. Love and Hate are words that I am very careful about using -- I think that's the language thing, though, rather than the psychological thing -- but pouncing on the word and not the meaning behind the statement is not *always* the most helpful response. Sometimes, of course, it can be, as in Gardenergirl's comments. The trick, for the therapist, is recognizing the difference between when the surface is most important, and when the meaning is most important. And not being married to either mode of response, but being able to move between them.
I guess that's my latest soapbox about therapy: Therapists Should Be Able To Be Flexible, In Order To Respond To The Patient Before Them. Match the techniques to the patient, and the patient's immediate level of functioning, rather than trying to force the patient to match the technique.
OK. Done ranting for now. And Daisy and I are heading for Home Depot tomorrow, to buy up a bunch of potting soil. We're going to build us an island, and secede from the state until Ah-nold admits that this has all been a new reality TV show. We'll have to remember to get a long extension cord, though -- so we can bring our computers and curling irons.
Posted by daisym on July 25, 2004, at 23:12:52
In reply to Riding to your rescue (and dramatic language) » daisym, posted by Racer on July 25, 2004, at 13:43:48
Nice to see you posting! I don't do dirt, btw. But I'll do the grocery shopping for our island. Hey, I'm headed your way Tuesday to train a group. Call up good weather for me, will you?
I'll try not to use dramatic language! :)
Posted by Racer on July 26, 2004, at 8:35:14
In reply to Re: Riding to your rescue (and dramatic language) » Racer, posted by daisym on July 25, 2004, at 23:12:52
So what you're saying is that you're going to come visit me and not take me to lunch? I see how things are...
I'm hitting Home Depot today with my mother, so I'll pick up a few hundred tons of the potting soil. Now all we'll have to do is pick a place for the island and make that banner.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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