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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Aphrodite on June 20, 2004, at 20:12:14
In reply to Re: Increased therapy making me worse (I think) » Aphrodite, posted by Racer on June 20, 2004, at 16:18:43
I like that description. It's very fitting. Thank you for your validating post and your encouragement.
I hope that you are better soon. You wrote such nice and thoughtful comments to me in the midst of your pain and also to Partlycloudy on the social board -- how kind of you to reach out during your trying time. I'm sending good thoughts your way. You have been so helpful.
Posted by lucy stone on June 20, 2004, at 20:43:31
In reply to Re: Increased therapy making me worse (I think) » daisym, posted by Aphrodite on June 20, 2004, at 20:09:21
My T says that I am both excited and frightened by the changes I am going through. Most days it's hard to find the excited part since I feel so frightened. I hold on to the times I can feel the excitement. Right now you seem to be mostly in the frightened stage. I hope you find the excited part, at least a little bit.
Posted by lucy stone on June 20, 2004, at 21:07:23
In reply to Re: Increased therapy making me worse (I think), posted by fires on June 20, 2004, at 19:46:58
I'm sorry that you didn't find a T who could help you. Not all Ts are good and not all good Ts are right for every person. It can be difficult to find a T that is both good and right for you. It seems that you never find one what was. Research shows that depression is best treated by a combination of medication and talk therapy. I think of it like diabetes, insulin compensates for that biological problem but patients also need coaching on lifestyle changes that help them cope with their disease. I am finding these boards fasinating because I am learning about all the different kinds of therapy people are using to make their lives better. Many also are on medication. I have used medication in the past but right now am dealing with my problems with therapy and it is transforming my life. Reading with an open mind is very helpful, I think.
Posted by fires on June 20, 2004, at 23:05:40
In reply to a suggestion, posted by lucy stone on June 20, 2004, at 21:07:23
Thank you for having the courage to say what you did:
"Not all Ts are good and not all good Ts are right for every person. It can be difficult to find a T that is both good and right for you. It seems that you never find one what was. Research shows that depression is best treated by a combination of medication and talk therapy. I think of it like diabetes, insulin compensates for that biological problem ..."Wonderful
Posted by lucy stone on June 21, 2004, at 8:17:55
In reply to Re: a suggestion, posted by fires on June 20, 2004, at 23:05:40
Interesting, you left out the second part of my sentance, where I said that counseling for diabetics gives them the skills necessary for lifestyle changes. No should expect to treat diabetes only with insulin, ignoring the lifestyle changes necessary for health. In the same way, people should not expect to treat depression only with medication when the research clearly shows that the best treatment is with a combination of medication and talk therapy.
Posted by antigua on June 21, 2004, at 10:54:46
In reply to Increased therapy making me worse (I think), posted by Aphrodite on June 20, 2004, at 10:02:22
Aphrodite,
I know exactly how you feel, and yes, you will find the other side. Have faith.Therapy tears me up sometimes, but I keep holding onto the belief that as I get discard my issues, one by one, I will find peace. I have to believe that. I don't always believe it, but I've decided to believe it now.
Therapy is supposed to be hard. In my world that means you're making progress. It's just so hard because you don't know if you can hold on because you don't know where the end is, at least for me.
Do something really nice for yourself today that you can enjoy and not feel guilty. You have a good T and as hard as it is to trust, you can do it.
best,
antigua
Posted by fires on June 21, 2004, at 12:14:11
In reply to Re: a suggestion, posted by lucy stone on June 21, 2004, at 8:17:55
Well, since I'm on my 3rd major depressive episode in my life, do I really need to "re-learn" the lifestyle changes that I never really gave up in the first place?
I will be posting a new post (soon) about the hazards of PT that I've learned from my personal experiences. I hope you will read it.
Thank you
Posted by gardenergirl on June 21, 2004, at 12:26:42
In reply to Re: Increased therapy making me worse (I think), posted by antigua on June 21, 2004, at 10:54:46
>It's just so hard because you don't know if you can hold on because you don't know where the end is, at least for me.
Oh this is so true! That makes it scary. You wonder what else will show itself and how deep the well of pain is.
Take care,
gg
Posted by partlycloudy on June 21, 2004, at 12:50:18
In reply to Re: Increased therapy making me worse (I think), posted by gardenergirl on June 21, 2004, at 12:26:42
Antigua, for me it seems that therapy stirs up the pot in my head; makes me think about and confront issues that I have submerged quite nicely until now, thank you very much. Which is what landed us in therapy! And perhaps there's no start, middle, nor end, but a process that helps us see different choices and paths available to us. I find change extremely distressing: I stayed in a marriage that was absolute misery for 15 years longer than I should have (total of 18 years, I'm being generous about the first 3 of them), resulting in being treated for PTSD!! From being married!!! So for me, change is not only essential for my health, but I'm not able to see the possibilities without help. The meds help me function from day to day, so I am better able to tackle the roots of my problems with my T. Sometimes I feel like I'm wasting her time, and then other times she has seen that I'm not getting anywhere. That's when she suggested I try the EMDR.
For myself, I find that every issue I face and deal with, there are 2 more to take its place. Not new issues, but ones that have been biding their time in my mind's lair.
Posted by antigua on June 21, 2004, at 14:28:08
In reply to Re: Increased therapy making me worse (I think), posted by partlycloudy on June 21, 2004, at 12:50:18
It IS hard to have any idea/perception of how many issues are hiding in that lair. When I find myself strong enough to face one then there are always more behind it. Some are much harder to handle, some are easier, but there's just no way of knowing. I've found that the things I thought would knock me over aren't always what I thought they would be. And that some just slip right by me. Like yesterday. Father's Day. I was "doing" Father's Day for my husband yesterday and it wasn't until late in the afternoon that I literally smacked my head and said, "of course, it's Father's Day," which has so many meanings on so many different levels for me. While I wrestle w/my demons, I also have to acknowledge the loving relationship I had w/my father. But of course that stirs me up--no wonder yesterday was tough.
In a perfect world, I would know all these things before they hit me so I could behave appropriately. In a perfect world, all of these issues would be resolved. I wonder, though, do we get to a point where we decide that we've resolved enough of them or do we have to get through ALL of them before we feel o.k.? Just a rhetorical question, really.
I'm very glad you're back,
antigua
Posted by daisym on June 21, 2004, at 14:47:52
In reply to Re: Increased therapy making me worse (I think) » partlycloudy, posted by antigua on June 21, 2004, at 14:28:08
Glad I wasn't the only one. I "knew" it was going to be hard this year but I stuffed it away. But I was distracted and tired all day and had that tightness/pain ball in my chest. Luckily we were at my in-laws so I didn't have to do much. I realized late last night that it was about Father's Day.
What I have noticed is that anxiety in general is more of a problem as we get near some of the really hard subjects. I know the goal is to unload some of the emotions that surround the old memories so that they don't destroy you when they surface but that seems such a long way away. I think I've "told" most of the really hard stuff now, but I can't say that it isn't all still really emotional for me. And confusing. And sometimes we go down a path that surprises us both with its intensity and pain. I think the description of "Lair of the mind" is a very good one.
I have therapy in 3 hours and I honestly can't think of what to safely talk about today. Of course, I was having the same problem on Thursday and thought I would take the easy way out. I said, "since I don't having anything pressing, is there anything we've touched on that you feel like we should go back to?" I thought he'd say, "let's just see what comes up..." Instead, turns out there was an issue that he felt was really important to talk about and I was completely surprised that he brought it up. (Yes, I had been consciously, highly avoiding it.) So essentially I opened the door for him. *sigh* It was a good discussion but a long way from "safe".
Let's practice:
T: "How was your weekend?"
Me: "Fine."Think that will work???
Posted by antigua on June 21, 2004, at 14:55:19
In reply to Father's Day » antigua, posted by daisym on June 21, 2004, at 14:47:52
"Fine" never does it. Geez Daisy, you might have to be more creative than that if you're going to HIDE something from him :). Maybe if you look him straight in the eye when pronoucing "fine," he may actually believe you.
Nope, mine wouldn't either. She doesn't even ask me how I am anymore. She can tell by my demeanor, so it's more like, "o.k., what's going on, what's wrong?"
I'm happy for you that you feel the hard parts are almost all out--let the healing begin!I'm jealous, but since you're such a nice person, I'll forgive you.
Good luck today,
antigua
Posted by fires on June 21, 2004, at 18:15:30
In reply to Father's Day » antigua, posted by daisym on June 21, 2004, at 14:47:52
Excuse me if you said not to reply to you. I believe it was another poster.
I'm very curious as to why you said:
"I have therapy in 3 hours and I honestly can't think of what to safely talk about today."
Why would one go to a T with whom they can't safely talk. I don't get it. Are you willing to tell me what type of therapy you are in and for what disorder. I'm baffled.
Thank you
Posted by rs on June 21, 2004, at 20:23:54
In reply to Re: Father's Day, posted by fires on June 21, 2004, at 18:15:30
Some people have very painful things to talk about in therapy. Here if having a hard time might want to go into session to have a safe talk that will not be overwhelming. Does that make sense to you? I deal with very painful things and find it hard but my therapist is very safe. I think that that poster has a very safe therapist but working on some painful things if you were to look at her posts. Also I need therapy for issues. Am I depressed? Yes I am and have been in hospital a few times in which one was a serious suicide attempt. Do I take meds today? No for some personal reasons. Here need to talk and feel. This is all IMO. For one time could you please consider how some of the folks here hurt and therapy is helping them much. If it was not for having a supportive caring therapist I might not be sitting here writing this. Does my therapist care for me? Yes in many ways. Do I feel dependent on him and need his help? Yes in healthy ways. I am a very independent person in many ways but right now in life need the support of someone. I suffered enough in life and now I deserve to be helped to find happiness and peace in my life. Also I might be in therapy for the rest of my life. I think there are many others here that deserve the same and I hope they are getting that. There are bad therapists out there. If my therapist did not believe in DID I would be in serious trouble. I live with this every day and cannot explain how some days the pain that is real. An intense pain. The tears that flow in sessions. Not because of therapy but due to the fact that I was hurt in many ways and attempting to now face and accept it. Attempting to learn how to live a happy life. I deserve that. Sorry to all if this is long.
Posted by DaisyM on June 21, 2004, at 21:14:14
In reply to Re: Father's Day, posted by fires on June 21, 2004, at 18:15:30
Fires,
I have been in psychotherapy for a little over a year. I go currently 3x's a week and usually have at least one phone check in with my Therapist during the week.
What I meant by "safe" was not opening up a whole bunch of painful "stuff" because this is a hectic work week for me -- have a corporate budget due to my Board of Directors. This, in and of itself, is stressful.
Basically I suffer from situational depression (my husband is dying) and PTSD. I also have a high stress job, which I love, but since we work with disabled infants and toddlers, we often have to deal with their deaths. You never get use to this.
Therapy for me flips from lots of intensive support to exploring what happened to me. Today we talked about what being happy looks like to me, vacation possibilities and life goals. On top of everything else, I'm trying to "find myself" and decide who I really am, how this fits with what other people want me to be and what might have to change in order to mesh the two.
Do I feel safe with my Therapist? Absolutely. He is amazing. Do I feel safe with my memories? No. they are loaded with fear and self-hatred.
It might surprise you to know that before we started working on the PTSD we had several discussions about whether this would be helpful or not, how disruptive it might be to my life and if this was even the right time to do this work. But since the memories were forcing themselves forward, we decided we were going to have to deal with them. My Therapist is very cautious, never asks leading questions and takes all of this very seriously. He is at least as smart as I am (she says, ego firmly intact)so he rarely lets me get away with "easy" answers. I'm very use to being in charge of everything, including my emotions. It has surprised the hell out of me to feel like a young child sometimes.
You asked a very good question. I wasn't offended. Before I started therapy, I wouldn't have believed I would have this intense of a relationship, both with therapy and with my Therapist. It challenges me like nothing ever, ever, has. It makes me be truthful and not hide behind my "so together" exterior.
I'm sorry you never had the same experience. I look forward to you posting more about your experiences.
Posted by DaisyM on June 21, 2004, at 21:17:49
In reply to Re: Father's Day » fires, posted by rs on June 21, 2004, at 20:23:54
rs,
Thank you for your indignation on my behalf. I could feel it all the way out here in Ca! You are very sweet.
What you said makes lots of sense, but I wasn't offended, I sort of set myself up, didn't I?
I guess I think my Therapist is so good I no longer feel very defensive about him. (OK, except that dependency demon, which makes me worry but still...) My therapy is very necessary for me, and ultimately that is what is important.
I'm glad you have someone to work with who cares about you and can listen and support you. You are working hard. I love reading your posts. Keep at it!
smiles
Daisy
Posted by fires on June 21, 2004, at 21:43:48
In reply to Re: Father's Day » fires, posted by rs on June 21, 2004, at 20:23:54
>>For one time could you please consider how some of the folks here hurt and therapy is helping them much.<<
Can you please point out one time when I didn't consider what you said? Also, how do you know what I'm considering? I think you may be making assumptions about what I'm considering/not considering.
It does seem that some of the folks here are quite hurt and confused. It does not appear from the posts that I've read, that therapy is helping them at all. That is why I recommend meds to a few who said they were thinking of suicide. How much can therapy be helping if they are still considering suicide? I don't cover my opinions up to be politically correct.
>>If my therapist did not believe in DID I would be in serious trouble.<<
I don't know what DID is. Please enlighten me.
Good Luck to all
Posted by Dinah on June 22, 2004, at 2:22:15
In reply to Re: Father's Day, posted by fires on June 21, 2004, at 21:43:48
> I don't know what DID is. Please enlighten me.
>
> Good Luck to allWhy fires, dear, I'll give you a little hint. It's one of the disorders that you said treatment for was a fraud. So perhaps you would like to tread lightly before you inadvertantly call posters frauds. Which even Dr. Bob must surely see as a violation of the civility guidelines.
Posted by rs on June 22, 2004, at 2:22:51
In reply to Thank you for being a White Knight » rs, posted by DaisyM on June 21, 2004, at 21:17:49
No problem. I enjoy reading your posts. you are an inspiration for me. Daisy you deserve much caring and happiness in your life. Hugs if ok
Posted by rs on June 22, 2004, at 2:24:42
In reply to Re: Father's Day, posted by fires on June 21, 2004, at 21:43:48
I do apologize if I was assuming. It was all IMO and again I apologize. Take care.
Posted by Dinah on June 22, 2004, at 2:34:14
In reply to Re: DID » fires, posted by Dinah on June 22, 2004, at 2:22:15
I don't really see the distinction between calling treatment for a disorder a fraud, and calling someone who says they're being treated for that disorder either a fraud or delusional.
Dr. Bob apparently thinks it's not the same thing at all.
So perhaps you or Dr. Bob could explain how what you said wasn't calling any posters with a disorder you think treatment for is a fraud, either making their disorder up or delusional.
Or maybe Dr. Bob thinks it's ok to tell a poster they're either making their disorder up, or they're delusional.
It's so hard to tell without facial expressions.
Posted by Dinah on June 22, 2004, at 2:39:17
In reply to Re: Or perhaps not, posted by Dinah on June 22, 2004, at 2:34:14
Maybe you could help me out there.
You've got your picture up there. Could you capture the appropriate facial expression to give me a hint?
Posted by Dinah on June 22, 2004, at 3:23:12
In reply to Re: Or perhaps not, posted by Dinah on June 22, 2004, at 2:34:14
I do believe that post belonged on Admin. I'll redirect it and start a new thread below on the psychological damage caused by skeptic sites.
Posted by pegasus on June 22, 2004, at 10:43:33
In reply to Re: Father's Day, posted by fires on June 21, 2004, at 21:43:48
It's baffling to me how you might have come to the conclusion that therapy is not helping the people who post here about how hurt they are. The way I read it -- and I've been reading posts here for several months now -- therapy has been immensely helpful for most of the people who post here. Maybe you just have a different definition of help than I do?
I would like to offer my own personal story of therapy. When I started I was suffering from recurring depression and anxiety that often "took over" my life. Two and a half years later, and I can say that I haven't had an obsessive anxiety episode in over a year (that's a lifetime record). My self injury is at an all time low. I've embarked on an exciting career change that I was terrified to even consider before therapy. My relationships with my family and friends have improved drastically. I am happier than I have ever been in my life, on the whole, and I feel that my future is wide open and that I'm free. These are things that I never felt before therapy. I attribute all of these drastic and much appreciated changes largely to therapy. Having that support, encouragement, challenge, and caring was a huge new thing in my life. Talking through my experiences was huge for me. No one had ever let me do that before. It helped me to put everything in a better perspective. I can't imagine how I could have done the same without the help of my wonderful therapist. I would be slogging through way back at the beginning right now if not for his help.
I suppose one could attribute these changes to something other than the therapy. But that was the only thing that I changed in my life at that time, and I firmly believe that it gave me the support I needed to consider -- or even want -- the other changes that came later.
pegasus
Posted by fires on June 22, 2004, at 12:47:56
In reply to Re: Father's Day » fires, posted by pegasus on June 22, 2004, at 10:43:33
Sorry but I suddenly have business that needs taking care of. Hopefully, all of those who replied to me with such well written posts will understand.
You said: "I suppose one could attribute these changes to something other than the therapy."
Great point. ((((Time)))) alone tends to heal all wounds.
Till I have time to return,
Best wishes to all
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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