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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 10, 2003, at 13:14:17
Part of my therapy is working on my self-esteem and trying not to care so much about how others perceive me or needing their approval. One of my "problems" is that I never think I DESERVE the best of anything. I tend to shortchange myself. What is the rationale behind stating that I indeed deserve the best and that my problems are just as deserving of my therapist's attention than some of his other patients who might be worse off? I have told him that I feel guilty for being there, that I am probably taking up his valuable time which could be better spent with a person whose problems are more severe. I tell him I feel I should be with a student or a therapist in trianing or something rather than him, who has been practicing for over 20 years and is very well respected.
He assures me that he treats my problems as seriously as everyone else's and that I "deserve the best care possible."
I cannot grasp this concept. I can say it to myself several hundred times a day that I am a person deserving of the best, but I need an actual EXPLANATION as to why??? For me, CBT will only work unless I have some sort of explanation behind the so-called rational thoughts, as opposed to just reciting a bunch of feel good words.
Has anyone been through this and come out of the other side?
Posted by justyourlaugh on December 10, 2003, at 13:41:00
In reply to Why do I deserve the best?, posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 10, 2003, at 13:14:17
hi honey,,
have you thought of putting a religious spin to it?...
because you were created by god ...we are all his children?
just a thought ..
Posted by Dinah on December 10, 2003, at 13:42:51
In reply to Why do I deserve the best?, posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 10, 2003, at 13:14:17
CBT, huh?
Let me make sure we're framing the statement correctly. The thought you're challenging is "I don't deserve an experienced therapist because my problems are not that severe. Experienced therapists should be reserved for the most disturbed patients. Experienced therapists should not treat those with less severe problems." Would that be correct?
I suppose we should also define "severe". Those with the most severe mental illnesses are probably best served by medication rather than CBT therapy. What would you consider severe enough to deserve a good CBT therapist? What problems wouldn't be severe enough.
A rule like that can't apply to just you - it's a universal sort of thing. So what would the universal conditions be that would allow someone to deserve your therapist. And you should probably keep in mind those conditions that CBT therapy has proved effective for.
Are resources that scarce? Would the people with more serious problems have access to your therapist if you left your space open? Would they have the resources to pay for a private therapist but no decent therapists to choose from because you're taking an hour of your therapist's time?
Or have I framed the problem incorrectly?
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 10, 2003, at 13:54:28
In reply to can i call you honey?... » Miss Honeychurch, posted by justyourlaugh on December 10, 2003, at 13:41:00
> hi honey,,
> have you thought of putting a religious spin to it?...
> because you were created by god ...we are all his children?
> just a thought ..
I have thought of the God issue. I do believe in God and can see the validity of the religious spin. I feel I need a less "mystical" explanation though.
Posted by Susan J on December 10, 2003, at 13:57:52
In reply to Why do I deserve the best?, posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 10, 2003, at 13:14:17
Hi,
I feel for ya, because I think very similarly to you in this respect.
> One of my "problems" is that I never think I DESERVE the best of anything.
<<I know it's hard to think you deserve the best when there are others out there who have it so much harder. But think of it this way. It's faulty logic to think that by somehow denying yourself the best care, you are going to enable others who are worse off to get the best care for themselves. There is no causation there.Also, every single human being on this planet deserves to be treated with compassion, respect, and dignity. Every single one. Um, which includes *you*! :-)
Sometimes I think we tell ourselves we don't deserve good things happening to us or for us, or whatever, as a way to steel ourselves against disappointment when they *don't* happen.
>>I have told him that I feel guilty for being there, that I am probably taking up his valuable time which could be better spent with a person whose problems are more severe.
<<OK, how about this? The healthier you are and the healthier other people are, the healthier our society will be. We will all start treating each other much better, and bad, unproductive behavior will occur less and less. So you are learning to be healthy, and that emotional health will definitely benefit not only you, but those around you.
> Has anyone been through this and come out of the other side?
<<I can't say I've been in the same situation, because I never thought I didn't deserve a particular therapist. But I've thought that I don't deserve a good, loving relationship, or don't deserve to have a kid, or whatever. I've come to the realization that I'm not the best person in the world, but I'm not the worst. I do try to be helpful in this world and I try to nurture myself, too. I try to focus on what's important in life, like happiness and compassion for others, and not be so hung up on superficial stuff like how I look or how others think I look. It's a constant battle, but I've been doing it pretty well this past year, and it really has made a difference.We are all valuable, unique beings. And just cuz we have a fault or two, even a few *bad* ones, doesn't negate the wonderful qualities we have....and the wonderful ones *you* have...
I promise. :-)
Susan
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 10, 2003, at 14:01:05
In reply to Re: Why do I deserve the best?-Calling CBT types » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Dinah on December 10, 2003, at 13:42:51
Dinah, you have framed my thoughts properly. I feel my problems are somewhat insignificant (anxiety, mild depression) than say for example what some of the people on this board deal with.
Your statements though about who CBT best serves though is interesting. Perhaps he is the IDEAL therapist for me. But I just don't apply this thinking to my therapist. I seem to settle for second best and feel I deserve second best with most things.
I have a problem with understanding WHY I should expect the best for myself. sigh..
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 10, 2003, at 14:37:27
In reply to You Definitely Deserve the Best » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Susan J on December 10, 2003, at 13:57:52
Susan, your response is wonderfully logical. However, I have a hard time accepting the belief that all of humanity has a right to be treated with equal respect, compassion, etc. Does Joseph Stalin deserve the same respect as Martin Luther King? And do I, someone born into a wealthy family who never wanted for anything and who took summer trips to Europe deserve equal compassion for my plight now as say a homeless person who has never had access to resources which could pull him out of poverty or give him access to proper mental health care? My response is to scoff at the "problems" of the middle class chick (me). My compassion would lay (lie?)with the homeless person.
My therapist keeps telling me we are all equal. I wish I could believe that. I don't believe I am equal to say, Mother Theresa who lived a life of self-sacrifice to help others. I wouldn't even DREAM of living that life.
I do like your thought though about how me being healthy will contribute to a more healthy society.
Posted by Dinah on December 10, 2003, at 15:09:43
In reply to Why do I deserve the best?, posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 10, 2003, at 13:14:17
Well, if you want to be really philosophical about it, perhaps no one "deserves" the best or the worst. Or perhaps no one gets what they "deserve". But that's no reason to reject what good things you get. It's more reason to be grateful for what you do get, knowing that it was unearned - because after all, how can you really earn the bounteous blessings we're lucky enough to receive. I don't "deserve" such a wonderful kid as I have. And I don't "deserve" to have a biological tendency to emotional problems. Maybe I "deserve" my diabetes. But mostly what we get has nothing to do with what we deserve.
I'd still object to getting the worst though, and try to get better.
Posted by DaisyM on December 10, 2003, at 15:12:24
In reply to Why do I deserve the best?, posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 10, 2003, at 13:14:17
Ok, so let go of the "we are equal" part. Turn it around. Does your Therapist *deserve* to choose his clients? Do you have faith that he makes competent decisions? Do you think he is doing you a *favor* by seeing you?
Self esteem is a tricky issue because it colors how we look at just about everything and Therapy is *selfish* at its basic core. I struggle mightly with that!
Can you tell yourself you will get better, faster with the best therefore giving up your seat sooner to someone else? Or how about, having a good theraputic experience will compel you to help other people use/feel good about therapy, which results in the greater good.
It is hard though, isn't it?
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 10, 2003, at 15:20:11
In reply to Re: Why do I deserve the best? » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Dinah on December 10, 2003, at 15:09:43
Very well said, Dinah.
Posted by tabitha on December 10, 2003, at 15:21:36
In reply to Why do I deserve the best?, posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 10, 2003, at 13:14:17
I was hung up for a long time on the concept of deserving to be happy. My therp kept saying that I had an issue of not believing I deserved to be happy. I just couldn't quite get what this meant, or what it meant to feel I deserved to be happy, or why I should feel I 'deserved' anything at all. Somehow that has changed over time. If you asked me now if I deserve to be happy, I'd say with very little reservation, of course I do! Everyone deserves to be happy!
I'm not sure I can explain how this changed. I think it was just the cumulative effect of treating myself better and challenging my self-criticism, and connecting with the inner child who wants to be happy.
Posted by Susan J on December 10, 2003, at 15:22:19
In reply to Re: You Definitely Deserve the Best (Susan J), posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 10, 2003, at 14:37:27
Miss Honeychurch,
My response is probably pointless because I'm not expressing myself very well today. But read if you'd like. :-)
>>Does Joseph Stalin deserve the same respect as Martin Luther King?
<<No, and I get your point. But what if Stalin's parents had been able to raise him well, nurture him, and show him what it's like to be charitable? Healthy people help create healthy kids who turn into healthy adults...I can't help but think that he wasn't respected as a child. I know it sounds simplistic. I'm not writing that very well. If he'd gotten respect, compassion, and was treated with dignity as a child/adult, I don't think he'd be the Stalin of the history books.And I also believe that if you choose the behavior you must accept the consequences. Loss of respect being one. Though I think that prisoners are deserving of basic levels of respect. I have worked in prisons, and I think even the most evil human beings deserve minimal levels of respect, such as safe housing and appropriate medical care. But that's minimal.
>> And do I, someone born into a wealthy family who never wanted for anything and who took summer trips to Europe deserve equal compassion for my plight now as say a homeless person who has never had access to resources which could pull him out of poverty or give him access to proper mental health care?
<<I thought the same way as you did. I'm economically middle class. I can still put a roof over my head, and I've got health insurance. In so many ways, I've got it easier than a homeless person or a poorer person.I was never beaten, never molested, never had an alcoholic or drug dependent parent. Nothing *bad* had ever happened to me, why do I hurt soooooooo much?
But what I have come to realize is even though my family looks healthy from the outside, it is sooooooo emotionally impoverished, it's just heartbreaking. My family, emotionally, is just the trash of the trash. And that gave me no skills for coping, no skills for getting ahead (emotionally) in life, no skills for treating others well, and worse, it gave me very dysfunctional, harmful behavioral habits. And then load depression on top of that and I'm a mess! I think I deserve some help. :-) What do you think? And if you think I deserve compassion, why don't you deserve it too?
Also, the healthier we get, the more productive we can be. And I firmly believe in giving back to a society from which we've benefited. I benefit from this society by having access to mental health care. I have always given back, whether with time, or money when I've got it.
>>My response is to scoff at the "problems" of the middle class chick (me). My compassion would lay (lie?)with the homeless person.
<<Why does it have to be either/or? Can't you value yourself and your need for therapy *and* have great compassion for a homeless person? Denying yourself value does not help the homeless guy. There is no causal effect there.
> My therapist keeps telling me we are all equal. I wish I could believe that.
<<We are. Equal does not mean identical.>I don't believe I am equal to say, Mother Theresa who lived a life of self-sacrifice to help others. I wouldn't even DREAM of living that life.
<<Maybe you wouldn't dream of living that life, or making those sacrifices. But you are *equal* to her in that you are a human being worthy of respect and compassion. Admiration might be a better word for what we feel for people like her.But it doesn't mean you don't have something of value to give the world. Very few can give to this world in the magnitude that Mother Teresa did. What about someone in your own life, whom you admire? Are they really more or less valuable than you?
I admire my brother for getting through a very painful separation and still focusing on what's best for his kid, including being nice to his soon-to-be-ex who's an evil shrew right now. He's not significantly better or worse than me. Just different. I admire and try to emulate his good qualities just as I try to minimize my own bad qualities. I learn from him as I learn from you, and everyone else who posts on this board.
Arrrrgh! Short version: You're worth it. :-) Who gets to judge which human is more valuable than another?S.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 10, 2003, at 15:27:19
In reply to Re: Why do I deserve the best? » Miss Honeychurch, posted by DaisyM on December 10, 2003, at 15:12:24
Daisy M, I like your statement about how my successful therapy will result in my encouraging others who need it to go into therapy. That was nice.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 10, 2003, at 15:32:11
In reply to Re: Why do I deserve the best? » Miss Honeychurch, posted by tabitha on December 10, 2003, at 15:21:36
I hope I can get to that point. It must be so wonderful!
Posted by tabitha on December 10, 2003, at 15:41:16
In reply to Re: Why do I deserve the best? (tabitha), posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 10, 2003, at 15:32:11
> I hope I can get to that point. It must be so wonderful!
Must admit I'm far from feeling wonderful all the time. There's maybe a touch less anguish, and some things are easier. I still don't think I feel very deserving in relationships.
Posted by shar on December 10, 2003, at 20:11:07
In reply to Why do I deserve the best?, posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 10, 2003, at 13:14:17
Why not?
It is very difficult to find solid answers in things of the mind.
Do you not feel every child deserves the best...every newborn deserves love and caring and guidance? Why?
Why would you, as a newborn, not deserve the same?
Only, you didn't get it, so you are where you are now. Why do you not STILL deserve what every other person deserves, no matter what their problems?
Plus, here's a secret about therapy: You have a right to get your money's worth. What a concept! Maybe even a little upsetting. However, once my therapist and I were fighting and she asked if I felt I was not getting my money's worth. I had never even thought of it that way! But, it is true. You are paying them to help you, like you would pay any doctor, except that it's 'head' work.
If you were going to have open heart surgery, and paid for the best, I would hope you'd get the surgeon's best effort! You'd certainly deserve it.
Hope this made some sense. and...p.s. I don't feel I deserve the best either and my therapist encourages me to think of it as an experiment. :)
Good wishes to you,
Shar
Posted by Kalamatianos on December 11, 2003, at 3:50:54
In reply to Why do I deserve the best?, posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 10, 2003, at 13:14:17
>>>Has anyone been through this and come out of the other side?
I can't answer your posting subject about why YOU don't deserve it. I can speak for myself in hopes you can gain insight.
After 15 years and a 1000 or so of 12 step meetings for my flavors of dysfunction (cheesecake and codependency), I have heard about 5000 different personal stories, and some stories I have heard over and over. There is much talk of self-esteem in every way you can imagine. What made more sense to me is the occasional success story that included bypassing self-esteem and tackling self-respect instead.
I didn't fully grasp what they were talking about until recently. I learned that when I confuse obligations with respect, I can't get it. When I replaced my fear of the unknown, with respect for the dangers of the unknown, respect took on a new nature for me. I started seeing that I was confusing obligation to authority as having respect for authority. Now I get into a lot less trouble. I really respect authority. I think it through before acting stupid.
I would look at myself in the mirror and still feel confused about self respect. Now I see that any smidgen of disrespect I show to authority or anybody for that matter, reflects back to me as my lack of self respect. I have noticed people responding to me as if I show plenty of self esteem. Because of this, I continue to learn about and work on my self-respect. Other-respect seems to be taking care of itself.
More evidence of lacking self-respect was my "potty-mouth" way I talked all the time. I can't respect myself if I go out in public cussing like a Hell's Angel. The other people out in public don't want to hear it. And, I'm not respecting them by talking that way.
Finally is love. If I don't deserve love, I am confusing love and approval. If I feel like I don't deserve someone's love, my gut is saying to me internally that I don't deserve their approval. Somewhere between my gut and my brain, the word approval is turned into the word love. So that's what I might testify to, but all the time I'm confused.
I catch myself doing these things. .....not so much any more, though.
Posted by Poet on December 11, 2003, at 11:36:50
In reply to Why do I deserve the best?, posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 10, 2003, at 13:14:17
Hi Miss Honeychurch,
I don't have the answer, sorry, replacing self-esteem with self-hatred is an on-going therapy "challenge" for me.
What my therapist is doing, is to get me to try hard to turn all my negatives into positive ones. Even if my writing classes don't lead to a new job, its confirmation that I am intelligent and a good writer. I no longer call myself a complete failure, just a career failure. :-) That will take years to work through.
Maybe try starting with the little things that you deserve and work your way up?
Poet
Posted by Karen_kay on December 11, 2003, at 16:45:10
In reply to Why do I deserve the best?, posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 10, 2003, at 13:14:17
You deserve the best because you are the only person who will be sure that you receive the best, as an adult anyway.
I'm going to tell you somethign that my therapist told me once, as best I can. Again, my memory isn't great :)
Think of yourself like a baby when it comes to happiness. A baby doesn't do much, it just lays there. It screams alot. But, a baby desrves happiness, and to be cared for. Noone would ever think that a baby doesn't deserve happiness would they? Now, think of yourself the same way. And think of all of the things you've accomplished. I'm sure you've done a whole lot more than poop your pants, right? You deserve your therapist's time., patience, caring and understanding. If you didn't, he wouldn't give it to you. If he didn't think you were living up to your end of the bargain, he wouldn't be helping you as much as he is. Now, take advantage of it. And next time you see him, tell him how cute he is :) Just kidding... ha ha
Karen
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 11, 2003, at 18:38:02
In reply to Re: Why do I deserve the best?, posted by Karen_kay on December 11, 2003, at 16:45:10
Karen, the baby analogy makes sense. An interesting way to think about it.
And I would LOVE to tell my therapist how cute he is, but I'm afraid he himself would poop his pants, and I definitely don't want that :)
Posted by Dinah on December 11, 2003, at 18:39:33
In reply to Re: Why do I deserve the best? (Karen Kay), posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 11, 2003, at 18:38:02
This is the end of the thread.
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