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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Elle2021 on November 14, 2003, at 5:53:07
In reply to Re: Psychiatrist doesn't want me anymore :( » Elle2021, posted by lookdownfish on November 14, 2003, at 4:22:13
Thank you so much for your response. It really was good advice you gave me. I should be more open about my feelings and tell my pdoc how it hurts me. He did impose the once a month app. I felt like I had no choice but to accept it or lose him altogether. I feel so hopeless right now. I was doing so well, I really was. I felt so stable and then all this stuff started happening, not just the pdoc stuff. I started Paxil and things were actually not looking bad, but now I'm just totally breaking down. I feel like I'm not going to get better, I'm never going to be normal or happy like other people. I can't hold down a job, I can't have a normal relationship without ruining it before it even has a chance. It really hurts when even someone you pay to listen to you doesn't want to listen anymore. I feel so pathetic, inadequate, and useless.
Elle
Posted by fallsfall on November 14, 2003, at 7:28:32
In reply to Re: Psychiatrist doesn't want me anymore :( » lookdownfish, posted by Elle2021 on November 14, 2003, at 5:53:07
My old therapist said things like "I don't know if I'm helping you anymore" and "I've taught you everything I know" and "Maybe this therapy isn't working for you - maybe it's the therapy's fault" and "I'm not sure how to help you".
I should have listened to her. I, too, have intense fear of abandonment. I couldn't imagine leaving her. She was my first therapist. I also couldn't imagine that she wasn't wonderful enough to help me - that someone else could possibly do a better job. So I cried, and I tried extra hard (obviously it was my problem - I wasn't telling her the right things, I wasn't listening carefully enough to what she was saying). Eventually she proved to me that she wasn't helping and I left (I was with her for 8 1/2 years).
If I had it to do over again, I would have listened to her earlier. I would have realized that a therapist isn't going to turn a patient away unless they think they can't help them. [It is possible that a therapist couldn't help a patient because the patient drives them crazy, but even if that is the case, the problem is that the therapist can't help the patient. It is ALSO possible that your therapist doesn't have enough experience with BPD (we are a challenge, aren't we?) and knows that someone else could help more.] Therapists have enough of an ego that they aren't going to say they can't do it unless they really think that they can't.
Leaving my old therapist was essential for my health and survival. It was also the most painful thing I have ever done.
Based on my experience, I would advise you to sit down and have a frank discussion with him. Ask him why he thinks you should go elsewhere. Ask him what his deficiencies are, and what yours are. See if you can understand why he feels that the "fit" isn't right. You can both be wonderful people, but not be the right people for each other. Just because he can't help you doesn't mean that somebody else can't - and it doesn't mean there is something wrong with you. Try (and it is SOOO hard) to step back and look at it intellectually - you are paying for a service, if the service isn't effective then you want to find one that is. He is not trying to tell you that you are unhelpable - just that he's not the guy.
Don't string it along like I did. If you need to change, it is best to do it now.
My heart goes out to you.
Been there, and surviving (perhaps even thriving).
Posted by Susan J on November 14, 2003, at 9:06:48
In reply to Psychiatrist doesn't want me anymore :(, posted by Elle2021 on November 14, 2003, at 1:06:19
Hi, Elle,
>I think he thinks I'm a hopeless case. I'm about ready to cry. Need some encouuragement/advice.
> Elle<<I know that hurts a lot, and I'd take it very personally, too. But I don't think AT ALL that he's saying you are a hopeless case. Therapists are human, too, and he could have tons of other stuff going on in his life that is bugging him, so he gets airheaded about your appointments. Who knows? Maybe his business is going under and holding off the computer guy until your session was over would've been money the therapist didnt' have. NOT saying what he did was right. Not at all. You have every reason to feel hurt and abandoned by someone who is SUPPOSED to help you.
But he may be trying to admit his faults, that he doesn't think he's GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU. I *do* think that a good therapist is someone who *gets* you, and whose style of therapy is good for you, too. And that takes some finding, in my opinion.
Plus, his *behavior* isn't good for you right now, either.*You* are the one who matters, here. :-) He either needs to be a helpful therapist, or you need to find someone else who's better for you. I don't know who wrote it here, cuz I'm on a different screen as I write this, but I agree with whomever said you need to have a frank discussion with the therapist and clear the air.
Please, you are *not* a hopeless case... :-) Finding a good therapy fit is difficult for everyone, I think....
I hope things get better, and I'll be thinking of ya,
Susan
Posted by Susan J on November 14, 2003, at 9:07:34
In reply to Re: Psychiatrist doesn't want me anymore :( » Elle2021, posted by lookdownfish on November 14, 2003, at 4:22:13
Posted by Dinah on November 14, 2003, at 9:53:01
In reply to Psychiatrist doesn't want me anymore :(, posted by Elle2021 on November 14, 2003, at 1:06:19
I'm in agreement with everyone here. He may have been helpful in the past, but his behavior now is *not* helpful to you. You deserve better.
I think the idea of a frank discussion is a good one. I also think it's important to rememebr that it's *his* limitations we're talking about here.
Elle, I know it must really really hurt. But I think you're better off with someone who can help you more.
Posted by Joslynn on November 14, 2003, at 9:55:43
In reply to Lookdownfish -- Cool Name BTW (nm) » lookdownfish, posted by Susan J on November 14, 2003, at 9:07:34
Oh Elle! What happened to you is one of my worst fears. You must feel so abandoned and lost. Even if he thinks someone else would be better for you, I wish he would have handled it more gradually and gently.
Posted by Elle2021 on November 14, 2003, at 19:40:43
In reply to Re: Psychiatrist doesn't want me anymore :( » Elle2021, posted by fallsfall on November 14, 2003, at 7:28:32
Yes, I agree we are pretty hard to treat, we Borderlines that is. I am beginning to really detest that label. Sorry if my post sounded so desperate yesterday or maybe it came up as today (I didn't get to bed till really early in the am). I was just going through some other stuff that had nothing to do with my pdoc, but had me really upset. And, unfortunately, I self injured for the first time in about 8 months. I was so proud of myself for not doing it, so I'm fairly disappointed that I did it last night.
I know your right about telling my pdoc that I need to find a new doctor. But I have these bad abandoment issues and just the thought of not having my pseudo-daddy in my life scares me. The next time he and I talk, I'm going to accept the app. with the psychologist he offered to me. He told me that I could see both of them (him and the psychologist at separate times). She is a woman though, and for some reason I don't know if I'm going to be able to open up to her. Who knows I guess we'll see soon enough. Thank you for your input it helped out a lot. God bless you.
Elle> My old therapist said things like "I don't know if I'm helping you anymore" and "I've taught you everything I know" and "Maybe this therapy isn't working for you - maybe it's the therapy's fault" and "I'm not sure how to help you".
>
> I should have listened to her. I, too, have intense fear of abandonment. I couldn't imagine leaving her. She was my first therapist. I also couldn't imagine that she wasn't wonderful enough to help me - that someone else could possibly do a better job. So I cried, and I tried extra hard (obviously it was my problem - I wasn't telling her the right things, I wasn't listening carefully enough to what she was saying). Eventually she proved to me that she wasn't helping and I left (I was with her for 8 1/2 years).
>
> If I had it to do over again, I would have listened to her earlier. I would have realized that a therapist isn't going to turn a patient away unless they think they can't help them. [It is possible that a therapist couldn't help a patient because the patient drives them crazy, but even if that is the case, the problem is that the therapist can't help the patient. It is ALSO possible that your therapist doesn't have enough experience with BPD (we are a challenge, aren't we?) and knows that someone else could help more.] Therapists have enough of an ego that they aren't going to say they can't do it unless they really think that they can't.
>
> Leaving my old therapist was essential for my health and survival. It was also the most painful thing I have ever done.
>
> Based on my experience, I would advise you to sit down and have a frank discussion with him. Ask him why he thinks you should go elsewhere. Ask him what his deficiencies are, and what yours are. See if you can understand why he feels that the "fit" isn't right. You can both be wonderful people, but not be the right people for each other. Just because he can't help you doesn't mean that somebody else can't - and it doesn't mean there is something wrong with you. Try (and it is SOOO hard) to step back and look at it intellectually - you are paying for a service, if the service isn't effective then you want to find one that is. He is not trying to tell you that you are unhelpable - just that he's not the guy.
>
> Don't string it along like I did. If you need to change, it is best to do it now.
>
> My heart goes out to you.
>
> Been there, and surviving (perhaps even thriving).
Posted by Elle2021 on November 14, 2003, at 19:44:40
In reply to Re: Psychiatrist doesn't want me anymore :(, posted by Susan J on November 14, 2003, at 9:06:48
Thank you for your input and encouragement. It was really helpful. I will try to have a frank talk with him...although I'm not terribly good at those kinds of talks. If you read my post to Fallsfall, it has my plan of action in it about getting a psychologist too. God bless you!
Elle> Hi, Elle,
>
> >I think he thinks I'm a hopeless case. I'm about ready to cry. Need some encouuragement/advice.
> > Elle
>
> <<I know that hurts a lot, and I'd take it very personally, too. But I don't think AT ALL that he's saying you are a hopeless case. Therapists are human, too, and he could have tons of other stuff going on in his life that is bugging him, so he gets airheaded about your appointments. Who knows? Maybe his business is going under and holding off the computer guy until your session was over would've been money the therapist didnt' have. NOT saying what he did was right. Not at all. You have every reason to feel hurt and abandoned by someone who is SUPPOSED to help you.
>
> But he may be trying to admit his faults, that he doesn't think he's GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU. I *do* think that a good therapist is someone who *gets* you, and whose style of therapy is good for you, too. And that takes some finding, in my opinion.
> Plus, his *behavior* isn't good for you right now, either.
>
> *You* are the one who matters, here. :-) He either needs to be a helpful therapist, or you need to find someone else who's better for you. I don't know who wrote it here, cuz I'm on a different screen as I write this, but I agree with whomever said you need to have a frank discussion with the therapist and clear the air.
>
> Please, you are *not* a hopeless case... :-) Finding a good therapy fit is difficult for everyone, I think....
>
> I hope things get better, and I'll be thinking of ya,
>
> Susan
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by Elle2021 on November 14, 2003, at 19:46:13
In reply to Re: Psychiatrist doesn't want me anymore :( » Elle2021, posted by Dinah on November 14, 2003, at 9:53:01
Posted by Elle2021 on November 14, 2003, at 19:48:03
In reply to Re: Lookdownfish -- Cool Name BTW, posted by Joslynn on November 14, 2003, at 9:55:43
Hi Joslynn,
It was my worst fear too, and yes I do feel abandoned, but not lost. There is a lot of support here, and people are so helpful and caring, including you! :) God bless you.
Elle
Posted by Dinah on November 14, 2003, at 20:08:31
In reply to Re: Psychiatrist doesn't want me anymore :( » fallsfall, posted by Elle2021 on November 14, 2003, at 19:40:43
Eight months is great! Don't beat yourself up too much about your lapse last night. It's over, and it does happen from time to time. It doesn't mean that you will start backsliding on a regular basis.
And while I'm sure it doesn't feel good, it sounds as if your psychiatrist isn't abandoning you, he still wants to see you. He'll just see you in addition to your seeing the psychologist. I doubt it's even all that personal. Psychiatrists more and more are doing medication management rather than therapy. He might just want to make sure you get more therapy than he can provide.
It'll be ok. And if you don't like the psychologist, you can always look for another. It might be interesting to have one woman and one man in your professional team. Bring up different issues.
It sounds like you have a good plan in place.
Posted by Elle2021 on November 14, 2003, at 21:07:47
In reply to Re: Psychiatrist doesn't want me anymore :(, posted by Dinah on November 14, 2003, at 20:08:31
Dinah,
You are so sweet. You must be one of the kindest, compassionate, level-headed people I have ever meant. I really mean that. Your advice always perks me up and makes me realize the reality of the situation. I tend to think the worst of every situation, and I'm not very good at reading peoples emotions or feelings, so often I get a completely different perception of whats really going on. I guess thats part of the BPD. I wish I didn't have that. Honestly, even with the OCD and anxiety/panic attacks, my life would be so manageable if I wasn't Borderline. I'm still trying to get fixed. Haven't given up yet. :) Thanks again Dinah. *Hugs*
Elle> Eight months is great! Don't beat yourself up too much about your lapse last night. It's over, and it does happen from time to time. It doesn't mean that you will start backsliding on a regular basis.
>
> And while I'm sure it doesn't feel good, it sounds as if your psychiatrist isn't abandoning you, he still wants to see you. He'll just see you in addition to your seeing the psychologist. I doubt it's even all that personal. Psychiatrists more and more are doing medication management rather than therapy. He might just want to make sure you get more therapy than he can provide.
>
> It'll be ok. And if you don't like the psychologist, you can always look for another. It might be interesting to have one woman and one man in your professional team. Bring up different issues.
>
> It sounds like you have a good plan in place.
Posted by Dinah on November 14, 2003, at 22:23:57
In reply to Re: Psychiatrist doesn't want me anymore :( » Dinah, posted by Elle2021 on November 14, 2003, at 21:07:47
(((Elle))) That was so sweet. I think I'll look back at your post when I'm feeling low.
I do know what you mean. When I got a handle on my OCD with CBT techniques, I started having my current mood instability. I don't know, maybe the OCD was some sort of pressure valve and without it I can't control the moods. But if I had to do it all over again, I'd keep the OCD rather than have this.
I'm glad you haven't let it get you down and that you're still fighting to get better. It can happen. We can get better. I have to keep believing that. And remembering the success stories I've seen here over time.
Posted by responsiblek9 on November 17, 2003, at 5:33:36
In reply to Psychiatrist doesn't want me anymore :(, posted by Elle2021 on November 14, 2003, at 1:06:19
Elle I know this very issue. Have had this happen. But every single therapist I have had has told me they are not trained for what is wrong with me. Mine is PTSD with Fugue disorder and schizoaffective personality. Not easy to treat.
I did ask what was their skills and could we at least try. but there does come a time where I can see and they can see I need new ideas . So we either drag some up or I ask them to refer me to someone who has different skills. Have not found a therapist yet who is skilled in the Fugue problems. I dont get anything but Psych docs who want to hand me meds instead of behavior modification. So I have to rely on the therapist and even the med doc who comes up with some great ideas to try on different things. But it is so hard to change therapists . I get new Psych docs every year since I go to a university teaching hospital for a Psychiatrist. One thing i have found is some people can get very attached to a therapist or Psych doc. maybe it is my personality disorder but I dont get attached.
But one thing i have found over the years is if someone says they cant help you and start making themselves unavailable , then I start looking for some one else to help. I do ask for refferals from the existing. But I also will look on my own also. I do tend to take control of my treatment . I have had to . Sometimes when we want to get better we have to make changes we dont like. And leaving someone we are comfortable with is very difficult. I also have asked to retrack over info they did work with me on to make sure I have it solid to keep me going until I get a new therapist. I hope things work out for you. My heart is with you on this.
responsible k9 in Colorado
---------------------------
> For the past few sessions I have been seeing my therapist, it feels as if he is trying to pass me off to someone else. He has been saying things like, "I have to give you my professional apology, I just don't think I'm qualified to treat you (I'm BPD)." "Would you like to talk to one of our psychologists?" "I would like to find a psychiatrist for you that is closer to where you live." I told him that even if he did find a therapist closer to where I lived I wouldn't go because it is such a small town...and word gets around fast. I think basically he is tired of treating me. I used to see him every two weeks and now he has shortened it to once a month. The last three sessions he has cancelled. He had a "miscommunication" and didn't return my phone call. The next time I see him will be in December, and who knows, he will probably cancel that app. too. I have been with him for almost two years now. I think he thinks I'm a hopeless case. I'm about ready to cry. Need some encouragement/advice.
> Elle
Posted by Marlin on November 17, 2003, at 19:57:05
In reply to Re: another story about him, posted by Elle2021 on November 14, 2003, at 2:05:22
Elle I felt so bad for you reading that, wish I could give you a big hug. I know you've invested a lot of time with this person, but maybe you should consider moving onto someone else. I saw a psychiatrist for almost a year. He worked out of his home, and there were constant distractions. He would be eating a bowl of ice cream while I was spilling my guts. The phone would ring right in the middle of our session... and he would answer it Every time. I think the record was 6. He yawned incessantly. He seemed to trail off like I was just rambling about nothing. All of these things were inappropriate and made me feel like he could have cared less. I was a nervous wreck, but one day I addressed my concerns over a letter to him and wondered if I should continue to see him, and to call me. Never called. I finally called him and asked could I at least get more Paxil and he said "I suggest you see your family doctor" , and banged the phone on me.
I know how you feel.
It doesn't sound like your therapist is as much of a jerk as mine was, but something isn't right nonetheless. Please don't take it as a personal assault to your character though, like you're some failure and nobody wants you. You know that's not true. You need to find someone who you can really connect and become totally comfortable with.
Hang in there, things will get better.
Posted by Elle2021 on November 18, 2003, at 6:57:41
In reply to Re: another story about him, posted by Marlin on November 17, 2003, at 19:57:05
Hi ((((Marlin,))))
Wow, your therapist was super rude! We can only hope he shaped up or got his license to practice taken away. Thanks so much for your support, it made me feel alot better after I read your post. Sometimes I feel like my therapist thinks I'm not trying hard enough or even that I'm not really having problems. I have severe to moderate OCD, panic/anxiety attacks, supposedly Borderline Personality Disorder... I wish I could see him more often, I feel like that would make a big difference. I could trust him more and be able to talk more openly with him. I really can take a hint, I know he doesn't want to treat me, at least thats where all the signs are pointing towards. I just can't make the break. Next time I see him I'm just going to ask straight out if he wants to treat me or not. I know it's going to be an uncomfortable situation, but it has to be done. Ugh, the more I think about it the more upset I get. Time for a break! :) Thanks again for the support your a great person! God bless you!
Elle
Posted by Elle2021 on November 18, 2003, at 7:05:50
In reply to Re: Psychiatrist doesn't want me anymore :(, posted by responsiblek9 on November 17, 2003, at 5:33:36
Hi,
I'm not familiar with fugue problems. What exactly is that? I'm glad that you don't seem to have trouble seeing a different psych. I'm Borderline PD and I get attached soooo easily. Plus I have these abandonment/trust issues which make things even worse. I can't make the break.Last time he mentioned he thought I was feeling suicidal...I was. I wouldn't ever commit suicide, I'm too afraid of going to hell for it. I told him that I was experiencing suicidal ideation. Here we are two months later and no call from him or even his secretary to see how I'm doing. Hmm, maybe getting a new psych won't be so hard after all. Writing these posts has led me to see that his behavior really isn't appropriate. Your definitely right, if he can't help me, then I better find someone who can.
I hope you find someone who can help you out too. I guess we're all surviving together. God bless you.
Elle
Posted by responsiblek9 on November 18, 2003, at 22:50:45
In reply to Re: Psychiatrist doesn't want me anymore :( » responsiblek9, posted by Elle2021 on November 18, 2003, at 7:05:50
The fugue states are where I lose contact with where I and get disoriented . Have gotten lost for days wandering through the mountains . I have woken up in other states and had to make phone calls to find out where I was from a friend and calm down from the fear of being lost. LOL> I would not ask a stranger where I was . Then had to go get a map to figure out how to get home. These normally last around 4 days . The longest was three months , medication caused that one . I dont eat when I am that way. Dont repond to people . Evidently I dont hear them very well either . Name responce is poor to non existent. The one thing I do respond to well is the service dogs . So the focus of the therapy has been helping me to train my Service dog to body block and keep me from wandering off in that state .They also will and have been taught to take me home or to a neighbor they know if I am not there upstairs. It does work and has kept me from ending up dead ,or lost like I used to get. If I get really upset or frightened I tend to drop off into this problem . The therapists and psych doctors have seen this problem , And they also say it is definately not MPD . It is a PTSD issue from severe physical and other abuse . And in severe form will drop into a catatonic state. It was funny how my friends got me to wake up. They put my hand wrapped onto the service dog guide handle and had the dog lead out for them . I would follow since my hand was locked on the handle or leash.After a bit I would start coming around. Still a bit ut of it but could start responding to the people with yes and no if they asked direct questions and slowly over time would come aware . The physical act of moving in response to another critter I had no fear of and trusted worked well.
------------------------------------------
> Hi,
> I'm not familiar with fugue problems. What exactly is that? I'm glad that you don't seem to have trouble seeing a different psych. I'm Borderline PD and I get attached soooo easily. Plus I have these abandonment/trust issues which make things even worse. I can't make the break.
>
> Last time he mentioned he thought I was feeling suicidal...I was. I wouldn't ever commit suicide, I'm too afraid of going to hell for it. I told him that I was experiencing suicidal ideation. Here we are two months later and no call from him or even his secretary to see how I'm doing. Hmm, maybe getting a new psych won't be so hard after all. Writing these posts has led me to see that his behavior really isn't appropriate. Your definitely right, if he can't help me, then I better find someone who can.
>
> I hope you find someone who can help you out too. I guess we're all surviving together. God bless you.
> Elle
Posted by Elle2021 on November 19, 2003, at 3:47:18
In reply to Re: Psychiatrist doesn't want me anymore :(, posted by responsiblek9 on November 18, 2003, at 22:50:45
Oh my goodness! I have a friend who has Fugue problems, she used to anyway. She would wonder away for days at a time and wind up several cities away (sometimes more than several cities, different places altogether) and have no idea how she got there. She said at first it was really scary (not to mention expensive since she had to pay for bus rides home). It really terrified her because as she put it, "I would just wake up, and not have any recollection of the time that had passed." No, she doesn't have MPD either, but she is Borderline like I am. It's pretty typical to have PTSD and be Borderline PD also. She did this for a long time, and then all of the sudden it just went away. She doesn't have trouble with it anymore. She said that she hasn't done it in quite a while. Which is a good sign for you, maybe it will go away on it's own like my friends did. I had no idea there was a name for it, I don't know if her doctor's did either.
Also, I wanted to apologize for my last post. It probably seemed flaky/incoherent because I had stopped all my medications a few days ago. I started them again today, so I'm back together again. Sorry! :) Hope your feeling better. We should keep talking about this Fugue thing, it intrigues me!
Elle
Posted by Dinah on November 19, 2003, at 9:18:32
In reply to Re: Psychiatrist doesn't want me anymore :( » responsiblek9, posted by Elle2021 on November 19, 2003, at 3:47:18
Elle, I still think the problem may be that he wants to be a psychopharmacologist rather than a therapist to you. If you feel strongly about it, you might want to check out the possibility. If not, you might just want to start over with a new psychopharmacologist and a new therapist.
Posted by Elle2021 on November 19, 2003, at 23:14:55
In reply to Re: Psychiatrist doesn't want me anymore :( » Elle2021, posted by Dinah on November 19, 2003, at 9:18:32
Hi Dinah,
You have a good point, I have wondered that myself. He loves to shove medication down my throat. But I have to admit that he did ask me when I first started seeing him if I preferred to be treated with meds or by therapy. At the time, I wasn't too hot about therapy, so I decided meds. Actually, I was more wondering...why is he asking me this, I want to do whatever he thinks is best, he's the professional. I have to talk to him about this, but I'm scared. I feel so pathetic admitting that.
Elle> Elle, I still think the problem may be that he wants to be a psychopharmacologist rather than a therapist to you. If you feel strongly about it, you might want to check out the possibility. If not, you might just want to start over with a new psychopharmacologist and a new therapist.
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 20, 2003, at 22:00:30
In reply to Re: Psychiatrist doesn't want me anymore :( » Dinah, posted by Elle2021 on November 19, 2003, at 23:14:55
Is a Fugue State different from Dissociative Identity Disorder, or just a more extreme form of it?
Pfinstegg
Posted by Elle2021 on November 21, 2003, at 0:29:55
In reply to Re: Psychiatrist doesn't want me anymore :( » Elle2021, posted by Pfinstegg on November 20, 2003, at 22:00:30
> Is a Fugue State different from Dissociative Identity Disorder, or just a more extreme form of it?
I think Dissociative Identity Disorder is what used to be called Multiple Personality Disorder. I'm no expert, but I don't think the two are related in any significant way. From what I have read, the person in a Fugue state doesn't become another personality, just doesn't remember a period of time. People with MPD or DID as they are now calling it, don't remember periods of time, but develop into a different personality, Fugues don't. Again, I'm not sure on this, just my 2 cents!
Elle
Posted by Dinah on November 21, 2003, at 2:06:36
In reply to Re: Psychiatrist doesn't want me anymore :( » Elle2021, posted by Pfinstegg on November 20, 2003, at 22:00:30
They're both dissociative spectrum disorders, but completely different ones with different DSM-IV codes.
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 21, 2003, at 14:22:45
In reply to Re: Psychiatrist doesn't want me anymore :( » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on November 21, 2003, at 2:06:36
Thanks, Dinah! (I still suspect that they're not all that different, however, and would personally love to see LESS illnesses listed in the DSM-IV)
Pfinstegg
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