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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah on August 19, 2003, at 0:44:08
In reply to $1000 or more to solve this OCD symptom, posted by OCDsalivator on August 18, 2003, at 1:25:18
It probably is a good idea to have the physical possibilities checked out. Sometimes we get so used to ourselves having a problem that we automatically chalk things like this up to it, rather than thoroughly checking it out. But if there is no medical problem...
Have your therapists suggested that the problem isn't the salivation, but rather your reaction to the salivation? You might worry beforehand about salivating, and while you salivate, and afterwards you might berate yourself for salivating. If that's the case, you can probably do a lot of helpful CBT work. Like... don't stay in the worry, step aside and watch it, and accept that you are worrying. Observing worrying doesn't feel as bad as worrying itself.
Have your therapists asked you to think about what dysfunctional thoughts you might be having about the salivating? Not thoughts of fact, but conclusions you might be jumping to about how others might be thinking of you, or any other sort of judgemental thinking. CBT therapy might suggest that you don't just keep those thoughts in the back of your mind. You might write them all down and evaluate their real truth. Or record all the thoughts on a tape and play them back over and over. I like to make fun of the thoughts, by saying them in a funny voice or singing them, for example. The DBT book I'm reading makes a big deal about differentiating between thoughts and truths.
And there's exposure and response prevention, which OCD CBT therapists seem to love. The idea there might be to try to let yourself salivate as much as you possibly can. Stand there and drool in the most public place you can find. Don't try to swallow, just let the drool pour out. The idea being that once you've done that a few times, the thought of salivating probably won't be as scary to you, because what you worried about has happened and nothing terrible occurred.
But, I really have to say. These things won't help much, and may make things worse, if you aren't ready to do them. If you don't have a safe place in your mind prepared. If you're just gritting your way through it. It's a gradual process, and just forcing yourself to stand it can sometimes do more harm than good. I'm an emetophobic (in the sense of being afraid of someone else throwing up around me). It's really more of an OCD obsession than a phobia. I've read a lot on the emetophobia web sites. And it is almost universally agreed (by emetophobes, not necessarily their therapists) that facing the phobia before you're ready to do it just makes it worse. So don't jump into anything. Doing that may backfire. Make sure that you do it at a pace you're comfortable with. The level of anxiety has to be a bit difficult for you, but not inordinately difficult for you. There's apparently an ideal level of anxiety to work with. I wouldn't know because there's no way I'm going where people are throwing up! It's probably best to work with a seasoned CBT specialist, no matter what you do.
I really like the book "STOP Obsessing!" by Foa, because it has this sort of irreverent approach to OCD symptoms. My personal favorite is singing the obsession (even if it's only in your head).
These are just ideas, and ones your therapists have probably already suggested. They may or may not suit your personal style so take them for whatever they're worth. Which is probably what I'm charging. Nothing. ;)
Good luck with your struggles. OCD can be a really stubborn problem. I certainly haven't conquered my own particular version, responsibility OCD (scrupulousness). But keep up the good fight.
Posted by OCDsalivator on August 19, 2003, at 19:06:58
In reply to Re: OCD symptom » OCDsalivator, posted by Dinah on August 19, 2003, at 0:44:08
Thanks for the response, but I've already tried all that.
"CBT therapy might suggest that you don't just keep those thoughts in the back of your mind. You might write them all down and evaluate their real truth."
Yep I've done that, but the real truth is that the salivating is indeed causing real, non-imaginary, physical damage. (After swallowing continuously at a rate of over 10 times a minute, my gums start bleeding from my tongue rubbing against them.)
"And there's exposure and response prevention, which OCD CBT therapists seem to love. The idea there might be to try to let yourself salivate as much as you possibly can."
I can't do that either because the excessive swallowing causes physical damage.
That is why no one can think of a treatment plan for this.
Posted by pianolady on August 20, 2003, at 17:17:50
In reply to Re: OCD symptom, posted by OCDsalivator on August 19, 2003, at 19:06:58
This might sound a little different and might be a whole different approach to your problem. By suggesting this, by the way, I am absolutely not making light of the problem. I'm just trying to think outside of the box as I know that sometimes the psychiatric field can try giving the same answer to every different kind of person when each person may need a more individual and different type of treatment.
Your problem immediately made me think of the conditioning of Pavlov and his dogs as he trained them to salivate at the ringing of a bell. I don't know the details of it, but I believe that either he or another researcher came along behind him and learned how to re-condition the dogs NOT to salivate after they had been initially conditioned TO salivate with the bell.
Perhaps you might try doing a little research on the subject. It's a long shot, but perhaps some of the principles used to re-condition the dogs NOT to salivate could be used to break your cycle of OCD salivation?
I wish you well in your search for a treatment. I had some of this type of thing briefly for a while, but it turned out that one of my meds caused increased salivation. I assume that you have tried anti-cholinergic type drugs that cause dry mouth?
Posted by jayme on August 20, 2003, at 20:21:07
In reply to $1000 or more to solve this OCD symptom, posted by OCDsalivator on August 18, 2003, at 1:25:18
I had an instructor in a Hypnosis class once who told me that he could cure any OCD problem, or his Hypno services were free. Have you tried hypntherapy? If it's that much of a problem, what have you got to lose?
Posted by Phil on August 22, 2003, at 16:57:29
In reply to $1000 or more to solve this OCD symptom, posted by OCDsalivator on August 18, 2003, at 1:25:18
http://www.dental.washington.edu/oralmed/Clinical_Services/Salivary.htm
If you haven't yet, you might want to see an ENT.
Or take 25mg of Amitriptyline, you won't be able to swallow.
Good luck.
Posted by OCDsalivator on August 24, 2003, at 17:08:55
In reply to Re: $1000 or more to solve this OCD symptom, posted by crazychickuk on August 18, 2003, at 9:35:10
"Have you had tests done to determine what may be causing this other than ocd?
This happened to me for about 6 mnths then i went to the dentist and he says it is my wisdom teeth that is the cause, and i am due to have them taking out..."I doubt there is a physical problem, but I am curious about it. Did you think it was an OCD worry in your case? I am wondering if maybe there *is* a physical problem that came first, and then my OCD just made it worse.
Posted by OCDsalivator on August 24, 2003, at 17:14:09
In reply to Re: $1000 or more to solve this OCD symptom, posted by jayme on August 20, 2003, at 20:21:07
"I had an instructor in a Hypnosis class once who told me that he could cure any OCD problem, or his Hypno services were free. Have you tried hypntherapy? If it's that much of a problem, what have you got to lose?"
I've wondered about some kind of hypnosis for this, but everytime I ask a OCD "expert" doctor I just get laughed at. And needless to say, once they get done laughing, they don't have any better suggestions ;) Is there a website or something that can locate local hypnotherapists?
Posted by OCDsalivator on August 24, 2003, at 17:15:52
In reply to Re: $1000 or more to solve this OCD symptom, posted by OCDsalivator on August 24, 2003, at 17:14:09
Also do you have any idea how to contact the hypnotherapist you know?
Posted by OCDsalivator on August 24, 2003, at 17:22:13
In reply to Re: OCD symptom, posted by pianolady on August 20, 2003, at 17:17:50
"Your problem immediately made me think of the conditioning of Pavlov and his dogs as he trained them to salivate at the ringing of a bell. I don't know the details of it, but I believe that either he or another researcher came along behind him and learned how to re-condition the dogs NOT to salivate after they had been initially conditioned TO salivate with the bell."
Thanks for telling me about that...I'll look into it more. Like a lot of people, I've heard about the Pavlov dogs being conditioned to salivate, but I don't think I've heard about the second part of the experiment in which they learned *not* to salivate....
Posted by OCDsalivator on September 7, 2003, at 20:56:01
In reply to $1000 or more to solve this OCD symptom, posted by OCDsalivator on August 18, 2003, at 1:25:18
Well I have a new website describing my OCD symptom in case anyone out there knows anyone in the world that could possibly help. I feel like the stress is probably going to make me pass out soon, and I don't know if I'll get back up.
So if anyone has any idea how to help please tell me immediately.xxx
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 8, 2003, at 0:29:25
In reply to Re: $1000 or more to solve this OCD symptom, posted by OCDsalivator on September 7, 2003, at 20:56:01
> So if anyone has any idea how to help please tell me immediately.
>
> xxxI asked you before not to request money directly from others here, so now I'm going to block you from posting for a week.
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.
Posted by sienna on September 9, 2003, at 18:03:03
In reply to Re: blocked for week » OCDsalivator, posted by Dr. Bob on September 8, 2003, at 0:29:25
As far as I can tell he said nothing at all about
money in this post. He simply asked people to please tell him immediately if they had any idea how to help him.And also in his original post he wasnt requesting money at all, he was offering money to anyone who could help him. WHen you asked him not to offer or ask for money, he never did ask again from what I saw.
I feel that this block is unfair.
Sienna
> > So if anyone has any idea how to help please tell me immediately.
> >
> > xxx
>
> I asked you before not to request money directly from others here, so now I'm going to block you from posting for a week.
>
> Bob
>
> PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 10, 2003, at 19:35:31
In reply to Re: blocked for week » Dr. Bob, posted by sienna on September 9, 2003, at 18:03:03
> As far as I can tell he said nothing at all about
> money in this post.It was on the website...
> And also in his original post he wasnt requesting money at all, he was offering money
You're right, I had it backwards, sorry, but the policy does apply both ways.
Bob
Posted by fab on September 20, 2003, at 1:28:11
In reply to Re: $1000 or more to solve this OCD symptom, posted by OCDsalivator on September 7, 2003, at 20:56:01
> Well I have a new website describing my OCD symptom in case anyone out there knows anyone in the world that could possibly help. I feel like the stress is probably going to make me pass out soon, and I don't know if I'll get back up.
> So if anyone has any idea how to help please tell me immediately.
>
> xxx
http://www.lancethurston.com/joyfultools.htm
has realaudio clips scroll down the selection to
CRITICAL INNER VOICES (under 2 minutes long)
maybe you can try some of the techniques used
and apply them to your OCD thoughtsThere is also a tape called BRAINLOCK which some people have found helpful for OCD (you can probably find it in a search)
And there's also NLP that might be useful if you haven't tried that.
Good luck! What's your new website?
Posted by braincandy_566 on October 29, 2003, at 22:44:14
In reply to $1000 or more to solve this OCD symptom, posted by OCDsalivator on August 18, 2003, at 1:25:18
Just to let you know, you are not alone. I have had this constant swallowing dilemma for about 15 years myself (I'm 29). It has been very difficult for me to feel comfortable in many public places, to speak to people (especially in quiet settings), etc.. Whatever activity I'm involved with, I can't go a few minutes without swallowing. Often the act of swallowing in front of people other than my family makes me feel anxious and nervous. However, whether with other people or by myself, I often find myself in the constant swallowing mode. (The only times I don't have this problem are when I'm watching a good movie I get lost in).
I believe the swallowing condition I have has greatly influenced my career path as I am in a field with far less 'people' interaction than many other professions. It has likewise affected many other areas of my life.
Medication such as luvox or buspar has alleviated the problem a little, but not that much. Besides, I feel I lose a little mental edge when I take any unnecessary medications. Dry mouth meds may not work very well for me. Only tried this amitryptyline and felt it was not very helpful (tried different dosing).
I've been to several psychologists but have not yet found someone to really help my problem, though it's been nice to have an outlet for negative thoughts, etc.
I guess its good to have a sense of humor, but that only goes so far. I empathize with your situation, and hope that it improves. Let me know if you have any breakthroughs. :)
ps im open to any suggestions.
Jason
Posted by Elle2021 on October 30, 2003, at 19:52:24
In reply to Re: $1000 or more to solve this OCD symptom, posted by braincandy_566 on October 29, 2003, at 22:44:14
I don't know how to help you really, but I DO THE SAME THING!! I have had OCD since I was about 11, and I used to do the swallowing thing pretty frequently, then, quite suddenly it stopped. It hasn't come back, thankfully. Sometimes with compulsions it helps to remind yourself: "This is my OCD, I don't have to do this, nothing bad will happen if I choose not to do this." It helps me sometimes, but other times the anxiety is too overwhelming. Have you tried Clomipramine? It helped me a little, but couldn't stand the side effects. Now I'm on Paxil, which seems to be improving my condition mildly...but thats better than nothing. Keep me updated on your condition. Bless you! Elle
Posted by april8 on October 30, 2003, at 23:42:24
In reply to Re: $1000 or more to solve this OCD symptom, posted by braincandy_566 on October 29, 2003, at 22:44:14
Gosh, I read your post, I suffer from depression and am taking medications, but as a kid I had some compulsive behavior. Mine was an offspring of childhood abuse, violent and sexual abuse. So I can really identify with the feelings you are having. I am a therapist now and if I hear any good things about OCD treatment I will let you know. feel free to email me. also I have heard that CBT cognitive behavioral therapy can work. Going to a clinic setting would likely be the best in terms of treatment. best to you!
Posted by braincandy_566 on November 1, 2003, at 10:00:16
In reply to Re: $1000 or more to solve this OCD symptom, posted by april8 on October 30, 2003, at 23:42:24
Thanks Elle and April for your responses
Posted by april8 on November 1, 2003, at 21:13:48
In reply to $1000 or more to solve this OCD symptom, posted by OCDsalivator on August 18, 2003, at 1:25:18
Did you get any good feedback, you can email me at [email protected] if you want I am happy to provide you some support!
good for you for reaching out!
april
Posted by Marsel Bennett on November 5, 2003, at 16:31:12
In reply to Re: OCD symptom » OCDsalivator, posted by Dinah on August 19, 2003, at 0:44:08
what kind of dependancy do you think smoking has?
a physical one?, or a psychological one?
(and if both, which would be superior?)
the solution is simple, the theory always is....but putting it into action is the real battle.you say the "thought" of your mouth causes excessive salivation. if that is true...and make sure it is...it would be logical to assume it is a psychological trigger that can be removed.
i would look for ways of destracting thoughts of my mouth by over-stimulating other regions (preferably in the face) who knows maybe even take up smoking (no, don't start smoking, it actually aids salivation...).
otherwise the only advice that i can give you, which is 100% sure to work....is to start a habit of smoking marijuana...that will surely solve your saliva problem. may cause new ones tho :)
Posted by krazybirdlady on November 13, 2003, at 18:37:30
In reply to $1000 or more to solve this OCD symptom, posted by OCDsalivator on August 18, 2003, at 1:25:18
you say you have suffered from OCD symptoms for over 15 years. Might i ask what some of your other symptoms were? you see my daughter has experienced many different OCD symptoms since she was 7 yrs. old. Eye blinking, sniffing, shoulder shrugs and pursing of the lips among many others. she has managed to outgrow (overcome) them all, except the eye-blinking, but it wasn't until we had her correctly diagnosed that she improved. it wasn't OCD at all...she has a mild form of Tourette's syndrome....
Posted by Dinah on November 16, 2003, at 16:29:59
In reply to $1000 or more to solve this OCD symptom, posted by OCDsalivator on August 18, 2003, at 1:25:18
check out the work of lang and malamed or especially frezza and holland.
Posted by KT921 on November 17, 2003, at 21:16:54
In reply to $1000 or more to solve this OCD symptom, posted by OCDsalivator on August 18, 2003, at 1:25:18
Hey,
I am new here, but I was wondering how how you were doing? I have had some OCD problems, but thankfully overcame them. The worst one was actually similar to yours. I constantly (I mean all the time) felt like I had a hair in my throat, which would cause me to salivate profusely. The need to spit was horrible and I ended up spitting on my sleeve while I was in public to hide it. I finally figured out it was a panic reaction, thinking about it made it worse, and so instead of meds, I have figured out that breathing exercises and meditation have knocked it out. Things that I can utilize in public without feeling like I am attracting attention work wonders. Maybe you should look into some of the breathing techniques people with panic disorders use. Good luck to you and if I have any more ideas, I will let you know!!
Posted by braincandy_566 on November 22, 2003, at 8:13:19
In reply to Re: $1000 or more to solve this OCD symptom, posted by krazybirdlady on November 13, 2003, at 18:37:30
>i have had other symptoms in the past, but none as prevalent as the excess salivation. These have included occasional neck twitching.
you say you have suffered from OCD symptoms for over 15 years. Might i ask what some of your other symptoms were? you see my daughter has experienced many different OCD symptoms since she was 7 yrs. old. Eye blinking, sniffing, shoulder shrugs and pursing of the lips among many others. she has managed to outgrow (overcome) them all, except the eye-blinking, but it wasn't until we had her correctly diagnosed that she improved. it wasn't OCD at all...she has a mild form of Tourette's syndrome....
Posted by braincandy_566 on November 22, 2003, at 8:17:21
In reply to Re: $1000 or more to solve this OCD symptom, posted by KT921 on November 17, 2003, at 21:16:54
>Thanks for the info. I have tried belly breathing when I get anxious and it does help me a little. Its probably good to use routinely.
Hey,
> I am new here, but I was wondering how how you were doing? I have had some OCD problems, but thankfully overcame them. The worst one was actually similar to yours. I constantly (I mean all the time) felt like I had a hair in my throat, which would cause me to salivate profusely. The need to spit was horrible and I ended up spitting on my sleeve while I was in public to hide it. I finally figured out it was a panic reaction, thinking about it made it worse, and so instead of meds, I have figured out that breathing exercises and meditation have knocked it out. Things that I can utilize in public without feeling like I am attracting attention work wonders. Maybe you should look into some of the breathing techniques people with panic disorders use. Good luck to you and if I have any more ideas, I will let you know!!
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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