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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Pfinstegg on August 12, 2003, at 17:29:36
In reply to Re: also in love with therapist » Dinah, posted by stebby on August 12, 2003, at 15:55:33
Some of the things which have happened to people here because the therapists were not skilled in handling transferences are just horrible. I told my analyst about them briefly today; he thought it was fascinating that discussions like this are on the web now. He said, " I wonder how many therapists know that their patients are trying to modify or titrate their transferences because of their intuition about what the therapists can and cannot tolerate." Although he didn't say so today, I know that he believes that people get better by experiencing strong transferences of all kinds, and then, because the therapist reacts differently from people in the patient's past, a sort of "new space" is created between them, in which the patient has the chance to feel and behave in a new, healthier way. I have been having this kind of therapy for about five months, with such intense tranference feelings of all sorts coming up constantly (when I am not in his office, I can hardly believe how strong all those feelings are). They are being handled with such acceptance and skill, and I am feeling better than in many years.
I do think it is very arduous work, at times, for the therapist. Mine, who holds university teaching positions as well as having a full day of patients, takes off a week every two months! Sheer survival!
Pfinstegg
Posted by Dinah on August 12, 2003, at 19:18:03
In reply to Re: also in love with therapist, posted by Pfinstegg on August 12, 2003, at 17:29:36
Well, I'm glad your therapist is in such demand, and teaching besides. He sounds like one I wouldn't even mind leaving mine for. Except it sounds like he's gone almost as often as mine is. Mine might be gone the last week of August. Again. Sigh.
I had a very very similar conversation with my therapist today. It's amazing how, when they handle the transference well, it's so much less an issue. And it's absolutely astonishing to me that so many handle it so badly.
But my therapist is a bit exasperated because everytime I read about therapists who don't handle transference well, or other bad therapy, I get anxious with him. lol. Transference!!!
Posted by Dinah on August 12, 2003, at 19:21:53
In reply to Re: also in love with therapist » Dinah, posted by stebby on August 12, 2003, at 15:55:33
Oh, I certainly understand about leaving not being an option. It scares me sometimes the lengths I'd be willing to go to to continue therapy.
But maybe by talking about it here, and maybe by talking about some of what happens in therapy with your husband, some of the tension will dissipate. Especially since your therapist sounds as if she can handle whatever comes along.
(And he really makes a good mother figure. Receptive, but with a firm core.)
Posted by stebby on August 13, 2003, at 8:53:05
In reply to Re: also in love with therapist, posted by Pfinstegg on August 12, 2003, at 17:29:36
Your analyst sounds like a real pro. I will be very interested in hearing about how it all progresses for you. Its nice to know that you are feeling better than ever. Last week my therapist wanted me to discuss what my feelings about her are. I couldn't do it, but I'm feeling more confident about it today after hearing what everyone has to say on this board. My therapist was so reassuring last week when I told her "it" was happening again (she knows all about my experience with my last therapist). After my last experience I am so afraid letting her know these feelings will somehow change the way she treats me, but she assures me it won't. We'll see how it goes today. What made you decide to go into analysis versus some other type of therapy?
Posted by stebby on August 13, 2003, at 9:01:13
In reply to Re: also in love with therapist » stebby, posted by Dinah on August 12, 2003, at 19:21:53
I think you are right about trying to talk about what happens in therapy with my husband. I can share with him that it is a very strong attachment. This would probably help our relationship which needs some work at the moment. Maybe I can transfer my romantic feelings towards him..I'm sure he'd like that!
Posted by Pfinstegg on August 13, 2003, at 12:01:07
In reply to Re: also in love with therapist » Pfinstegg, posted by stebby on August 13, 2003, at 8:53:05
From what you are saying, your therapist sounds like she really wants all of your transference feelings to be felt, expressed and talked about with her. She sounds like she's very experienced and capable.
I actually went to a psychologist for four years before changing to the analyst I have now. The psychologist was excessively *nice* and supportive, but we didn't deal very well with any of the transference issues- rage and hatred, when they appeared, were ignored by her, and I was not coping well with them at all myself. I began reading about psychoanalysis, thinking that it was old-fashioned and involved a detached "blank-slate" type of analyst. To my great surprise, the literature of the late 80's and 90's showed that the analysts were in the process of becoming very interactive. They are not only very interested in- and well-trained in dealing with- all aspects of the transference, but also use their counter-transference to understand what is going on. They talk a lot! I go twice a week, but mostly lie own on the couch- sounds so old-fashioned!- but it does allow for a full and free expression of feelings. Because one naturally regresses, the transference issues tend to be from the earliest parts of one's life- just the ones hardest to access, and the ones we need to deal with the most. If anyone is interested in knowing more, I'd recommend looking up articles in the journal "Psychoanalytic Inquiry". That journal gives a good view of modern trends in psychoanalysis. I think you can acces at least a few articles from it on Google.
Pfinstegg
Posted by stebby on August 13, 2003, at 20:17:52
In reply to Re: also in love with therapist, posted by Pfinstegg on August 13, 2003, at 12:01:07
I always thought psychoanalysis sounded very interesting. It probably would be appropriate for me given my history of transference, although at this point I can't imagine leaving my current therapist. Also, isn't analysis really expensive.. and insurance typically does not cover it. Insurance companies seem to like these short term approaches. I have to ask, since you seem so comfortable with all of this transference stuff going on in your therapy, why are you interested in reading this message board. What brought you here in the first place?
I did have a session with my therapist today and disclosed many of my feelings about her. She was very cool about it and said that its not surprizing at all given my life experiences. She also discussed how seductive therapy can be since someone is listening to you with their undivided attention, and validating your thought and feelings. I guess its true..it is very seductive. I fell a little calmer about this now.
What brought you into therapy to begin with?
Posted by Pfinstegg on August 13, 2003, at 23:28:47
In reply to Re: also in love with therapist » Pfinstegg, posted by stebby on August 13, 2003, at 20:17:52
To answer the second question first, my mother was hospitalized with depression from the time I was born until I was three years old; even when she came home, she was very fragile and withdrawn. I don't feel that I ever had a real mother, and there were frequently-changing caretakers. Unfortunately, my father became an alcoholic, and abused me physically and sexually as I grew older. Because of these things I have had a tremendous amount of anxiety and depression my entire life. My DSM-IV diagnosis is severe PTSD. I do have a career, husband and son, but there have been many times when I was just barely managing, and in fact always felt awful about what a bad job I felt I was doing with everything.
As for the first question- what makes you think I am so comfortable with these transference issues? I am terrified having to go in there and deal with them, but I have learned from my analyst how valuable they are to the treatment process- that was the point I was trying to express here. And I come to these boards because I get a lot of valuable insight, support and knowledge from them; I'm assuming that is why everyone comes.
I do go to an analyst, but twice a week. His fees are actually lower than the psychologist I went to previously.Financially, I am in the same situation as everyone else here who has twice-weekly therapy.
What about you?
Pfinstegg
Posted by stebby on August 14, 2003, at 12:37:52
In reply to Re: also in love with therapist » stebby, posted by Pfinstegg on August 13, 2003, at 23:28:47
Pfinstegg, I hope I didn't offend you in any way regarding my question about why you come to this board. It's just that from your posts you seem so insightful about it all. I understand what you are saying about how valuable transference can be in the therapeutic process and I'm taking that insight with me. Thank you. I can also appreciate the difficulty of discussing this with your analyst. I have to say that discussing some of these feelings with my therapist has taken some of the power out of them.
My story is not so tragic like yours. My upbringing was not that bad...some physical abuse, a mom with some drinking troubles, and emotional neglect. Problems for me really didn't surface to an incapacitating state until the last few years when I have been facing enormous pressure in my work situation. I became very depressed after a poor evaluation in my struggle for tenure at an academic institution. I am the sole bread winner in the family at the moment with two adorable boys. I have been cutting and of course had this awful tranference experience with my first therapist. That only made my situation worse. I seem to lead a dual existancce where people on the outside think I have it all together when the truth is that I'm totally f'ed up. My husband can't deal with me anymore, and I just go through life trying to keep it together.
Posted by Pfinstegg on August 15, 2003, at 23:46:13
In reply to Re: also in love with therapist » Pfinstegg, posted by stebby on August 14, 2003, at 12:37:52
I admit I was slightly offended by being asked why I was coming to the board, but I'm not any longer.
It's really impossible to compare anyone's situation with anyone else's. I know my situation sounds awful, but I don't really consider it a tragedy, as later life has been much better in terms of family, work, etc.-except for my severe inner doubts about myself and the on-going depression and anxiety, which has always caused me a lot of difficulty. The chance to go into my early experiences, deeply, with my analyst, has really started to lessen the pain I have always felt because of them.
I can understand your situation, as I, too, have a doctorate and had to struggle hard for tenure. It must be really hard when you have children to raise and are the sole bread-winner- I haven't been in that situation, but am assuming it at least doubles the amount of pressure. I know I feel pulled in so many directions at once, and never feel that I'm doing anything really well.
It sounds as though you are developing a good working relationship with your therapist- that may be deepening and becoming more meaningful and useful to you as you talk about the transference in all its forms. There always would be the possibility of analysis if you wanted to go into things more deeply still. Our insurance pays for a standard number of visits per year, as it's considered the same as psychotherapy. Of course, it doesn't nearly cover a year of visits!
I am just at the beginning of my analytic journey, and I think I'm the only one here to have chosen a psychoanalyst. I don't know how it's all going to turn out, but I'd be glad to let anyone know who has any interest in it as things go along.
The very best to you!
Pfinstegg
Posted by Pfinstegg on August 16, 2003, at 1:11:23
In reply to Re: also in love with therapist » Pfinstegg, posted by stebby on August 14, 2003, at 12:37:52
Oh, now that I've read through all the new entries on this board, I realize that you are not sure whether or not the intensity of your tranference means that another disaster is going to occur. It sounds like you really would like it to go away, as if it's something bad.
Tranference is hard to deal with anyway, but if you've had a horrible experience where you have been rejected for having it, it's much harder. From what I have learned, analysts think that having a strong tranference correlates with having a good outcome to therapy. They feel uneasy about someone's prognosis when they are detached and unable to form a powerful loving, dependent tranference, which will eventually include all the other feelings, like envy, rage, desire, disappointment, etc. It's just astonishing to me how primitive and powerful all these feelings are- it's not what any of us do in daily life!
After 5 months of analysis, I have realized that all these wild tranference feelings, and our working with them together AT EXCRUCIATING LENGTH is the main thing which has been helping me feel better. Does this seem really off-base to you?
Pfinstegg
Posted by stebby on August 16, 2003, at 14:15:35
In reply to Re: also in love with therapist » stebby, posted by Pfinstegg on August 16, 2003, at 1:11:23
I am so interested in hearing how analysis turns out for you. Yes, I am very afraid of having another horrible experience with these transference issues. There is nothing like entering therapy completely "green" to the whole mental health world and six months later leaving in a worse condition than you started. I guess that is why I want to fight these feelings so much of the time. I'm glad to hear that analysts think the prognosis for successful therapy is good when there are strong transference feelngs. I will keep that in mind. Its is really helpful to hear what you have to say.
I know what you mean when you say you ffeel like you are being pulled in so many directions and don't feel like you are doing a good job in anything. In fact, I think I've said those exact words to my therapist before. When school is in session, my life is insane. Thank God my husband stays home with the boys. At least I know they are in good hands, but I still worry so much that they don't get enough mommy time. When I do see them, I don't have much left to give. I did not realize just how anxious I was until I started taking SSRI's. Although I still get pretty down a lot of the time, my anxiety improved SO much.
Again, I really am sorry for offending you about the message board question. I am really happy to have found such an iformative and supportive spot even if it is in cyberspace. I find it interesting that all of the epople I have connected with here are women seemingly in the same age bracket. What's up with that? What a world we live in!
Posted by Pfinstegg on August 16, 2003, at 19:05:49
In reply to Re: also in love with therapist, posted by stebby on August 16, 2003, at 14:15:35
I know- isn't it striking? We've got a few terrific men here, but not nearly so many. And they don't post about their feelings and experiences with nearly the frequency that the women do. However, almost all of the important things that I've learned about the neurophysiology of depression, the actions of the various AD's and the role of adjuvant treatments like niacinamide, fish oil, magnesium etc. have come from really smart guys over on the med board.
Pfinstegg
Posted by stebby on August 16, 2003, at 20:40:05
In reply to Re: also in love with therapist » stebby, posted by Pfinstegg on August 16, 2003, at 19:05:49
I haven't spent any time over at the med board yet. I wonder if transference happens more often with women, or we are just more likely to talk about it. I'll be offline until Tuesday...go'in camping! Cheers to you.
Posted by stebby on August 27, 2003, at 20:31:28
In reply to Re: also in love with therapist » stebby, posted by Pfinstegg on August 16, 2003, at 19:05:49
Hey Pfinstegg, Where did you go? I enjoyed our chats.
Stebby
Posted by Pfinstegg on August 27, 2003, at 21:53:26
In reply to Re: also in love with therapist » Pfinstegg, posted by stebby on August 27, 2003, at 20:31:28
Hi stebby! Have fun camping? I noticed that no-one has been posting on either this or the social board lately, so I started a new thread on - transference, of course! I was hoping to hear how things were going with your new therapist, as well as the interesting views that others have been having on that topic. It's got to be the most stressful part of psychotherapy- and it seems to be slightly different for each person.
I think the whole board is slow right now in posting new messages, as mine have not shown up for 24 hours- I feel certain they will, though.
Pfinstegg
Posted by sweet77 on November 12, 2003, at 3:04:37
In reply to Re: also in love with therapist » Dinah, posted by stebby on August 12, 2003, at 15:55:33
well i have to say that this is crazy i never knew there were other ppl out there that our in love with there therpist cus i am dealin with that now and it is so hard and it hurts i just wish i could tell him i am gald i found this site
Posted by stebby on November 12, 2003, at 8:00:19
In reply to Re: also in love with therapist, posted by sweet77 on November 12, 2003, at 3:04:37
Yes, it is very difficult. I suggest reading "In Session" It helped me a lot to make sense of it all.
Posted by thewriteone on November 12, 2003, at 22:04:16
In reply to Re: also in love with therapist » Dinah, posted by stebby on August 12, 2003, at 15:55:33
Unbelievable! I really thought I was the only one with this problem. I thought there was something wrong with me. I'm deeply connected (I'm reluctant to say "in love") to my therapist and have also found myself calling her voicemail on occasion. I have talked to her about my feelings, and she seems to willing to talk about just about anything. I feel better now knowing that others are going through the same thing.
I have to say, I'm very impressed that how you guys are able to articulate what you're feeling. I have trouble with that. It's almost as if I don't think in words, but rather thoughts and feelings that have to be translated, which I have a lot of trouble with. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone.
Posted by sweet77 on November 12, 2003, at 22:28:38
In reply to Re: A New Breakthrough in the Transference Crisis? » Morgen, posted by judy1 on July 27, 2003, at 14:15:05
hey ok i see most of all u told ur thrpist .. i havent and the feeling are strong and painful!!!! help ..
Posted by Raindancer on November 13, 2003, at 7:53:24
In reply to Re: A New Breakthrough in the Transference Crisis?, posted by sweet77 on November 12, 2003, at 22:28:38
I think it's very important to tell your therapist, who won't be shocked or upset by this. The more of your feelings you can express, the more you can be helped. I love my therapist very dearly and we are ending soon, which i find very hard, but he knows of my feelings and I can talk about them, which helps a lot. He tells me that our therapeutic relationship is very special and that I will be able to carry that with me always. I think in the end you grow stronger, but it is very hard and very painful. All the very best.
Posted by sweet77 on November 14, 2003, at 1:19:09
In reply to Re: A New Breakthrough in the Transference Crisis?, posted by Still Hurting on August 12, 2003, at 1:02:30
omg i so happy to know that i am not the only one who calls my therpist voice mail and looks for his name in the serach engine gggeesssh i thought i was crazy .....has anyone ver tryed to follow there therpist to find out where they live ?
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 14, 2003, at 1:45:12
In reply to Re: A New Breakthrough in the Transference Crisis?, posted by sweet77 on November 14, 2003, at 1:19:09
Just look through all the posts on this board- maybe "The Perfect Therapy Patients Club" especially, and you'll see that lots of posters either have, or want to, surf the web, drive by the house, check out the car, get rid of all the other patients- and all sorts of other stuff which I'll leave to your imagination! Want to join the club?
Pfinstegg
PS All of it is normal, and by telling your therapist what you are feeling, you will learn so much about yourself. It will open the way to really getting better.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 16, 2003, at 6:55:34
In reply to Re: also in love with therapist » sweet77, posted by stebby on November 12, 2003, at 8:00:19
> Yes, it is very difficult. I suggest reading "In Session" It helped me a lot to make sense of it all.
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by sweet77 on November 17, 2003, at 0:20:47
In reply to Re: Transference Crisis, posted by raven on July 26, 2003, at 23:24:36
i agree ,,, i am in therpy now ,,, i have been in therpy for 3 yrs now i am experincing the transcfernce thing now and it is harder then i ever excepted it to be....i mean no one can tell my feelings arent real i know how i feel... i think the transfernce thing suxz and it shouldnt even have name like that u can fall in love with anyone .. what difference does it make who it is what they do ?? i guess i am just angry cus i dont understand and i am confused please help
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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