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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on September 24, 2002, at 9:08:44
I'm not sure how odd this will sound...
Friday something bad happened at work. Something that I quite rightly got upset about, although I think my reaction was greater than what would be reasonable. I had one of my meltdowns over it (although thank heavens I waited until I left work). It was similar in intensity to a panic attack, complete with that terrible panic attack smell of fear. Although fear was not the underlying emotion.
I fell into a deep sleep and when I woke up, the emotions had begun to lose their connections to the intitial event. This weekend I continued to experience the physical expression of the emotions as well as the desire to cut, but they were totally divorced from thoughts of the trigger. Thinking of what happened didn't increase my distress in any way. And I didn't think of what happened while I was experiencing the distress, except to acknowledge that it was probably the source.
By Monday, someone at the office mentioned how bad they felt about what had happened, and I was bewildered about why they would be upset. Bewildered might not be the right word, but there was no emotional reaction in me other than mild surprise that they were upset about it. And yet, I should be upset.
And I wondered if this stripping of the emotional content from the cognitive content, and the separate storing of each might not be one of my main problems. I don't seriously believe that I am no longer upset, although I don't *feel* upset. And I suspect that the distress went into a big pile of similar distress memories, while the event went into a pile of event memories stripped of all emotion.
I'm sure it's some sort of coping function, but I think it contributes to my overreaction in the future. The "distress" door, or the "anger" door, or the "fear" door gets opened by an event and I react way out of proportion because all this stuff comes pouring out. I'd rather be able to remember an event with its associated affect, rather than have the affect stored separately.
Does this sound at all familiar to anyone? And does anyone have any ways they have found to help unlearn this defense mechanism?
Thanks,
Dinah
P.S. Reading over this post, it seems like a good example of what I'm talking about. It seems overly intellectualized and devoid of feeling.
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 24, 2002, at 9:28:29
In reply to Separating emotions from their source, posted by Dinah on September 24, 2002, at 9:08:44
> Does this sound at all familiar to anyone? And does anyone have any ways they have found to help unlearn this defense mechanism?
-------------------------------Yes! I know exactly what you're talking about. The specifics may differ, but I typically experience emotion in a very seperate, and dis-intigrated manner. I remember, at the height of a depression, crying on the floor for hours, obviously upset, but also thinking about it quite blithely as it happened ("What's this all about? How strange."). It's like my emotions and my thoughts aren't integrated. I can also be in a horrible situation and experience no emotion. 9/11 was hard for me last year, because even though I was conciously mortified by the events, I didn't experience any accompanying emotions of horror or saddness, which made me look like an unfeeling robot.
When I do get emotional, I also tend to get very emotional (somewhat like your explosion after work). My girlfriend will grow concerned over my lack of emotion for several months, and then suddenly I'm sobbing and trembling uncontrollably over something of only moderate importance.
It may be unrelated, but I also expereince what I can only assume are dissociative states, where my senses are as disconnected from my "mind" as my feelings. It's like I'm only halfway in my head, not experiencing things firsthand (much like being divorced from my emotions).
Because I tend to experience emotion in a fire hose, instead of a teacup, I think that I tend to conciously try to avoid allowing myself to continue a line of thought that would trigger emotion, so that I don't spend 20 minutes crying over something (and still not really connecting with it anyway).
> P.S. Reading over this post, it seems like a good example of what I'm talking about. It seems overly intellectualized and devoid of feeling.
--------------------I think the same thing about every post I make. I've just come to accept it as who I am.
Posted by Tabßitha on September 24, 2002, at 12:24:04
In reply to Separating emotions from their source, posted by Dinah on September 24, 2002, at 9:08:44
Have to say I'm impressed that you have so much insight into the pattern. I do this too, but without so much awareness. I know my ups and downs are often related to relatively minor events, but I usually forget the triggers or deny that they're related. It's confusing, b/c I think my moods can also be just kind of free-running or seasonal.
Posted by Dinah on September 24, 2002, at 17:16:56
In reply to Re: Separating emotions from their source, posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 24, 2002, at 9:28:29
My therapist and I were talking about this today. He agrees with me that it is another manifestation of my dissociative ability, and that while it may be helpful in the short term, it is not helpful in the long term. It just contributes to future meltdowns. But what neither of us can figure out is how to stop doing it.
Of course, it's not just true of my melt-down issues. I usually melt down over fears of abandonment or fears of being a bad girl. However, I separate my emotions from my event memories on almost everything, good and bad. I don't know if it's a learned behavior or if it's hard wired. :(
Posted by Dinah on September 24, 2002, at 17:19:14
In reply to Re: Separating emotions from their source, posted by Tabßitha on September 24, 2002, at 12:24:04
I wish I could claim great insight, but the truth is that it just happened and it happened so clearly that it was hard not to notice. Of course, I've been suspecting that this is the truth for some time now, so this latest event just gave me a chance to test the theory.
Posted by tancu on September 25, 2002, at 6:19:17
In reply to Separating emotions from their source, posted by Dinah on September 24, 2002, at 9:08:44
Awareness of the subtleties, associations, and patterns of our emotions can be a good thing--as long as one is "comfortable" with such intimacy of self. Yes, I am "familiar" with this sort of introspection. I spent a large part of my life sifting through every real or imagined emotional nuance that I "thought" I had experienced. I even attempted to examine the emotions of other people, as if doing so would somehow help explain my own. After twenty years or so it became laborious and mind-numbing, a kind of "mental-masterbation" without any particular or useful climax. "Thinking" made it so. Then it came to me that humans are only capable of experiencing two emotions--love and fear. This realization is what helped me to "unlearn this defense mechanism"--as you have called it. If you look closely at any given situation, real or hypothetical, that leads to any particular "emotion", you will primarily find either love or fear as the impetus. Hatred and anger, for example, may arise out the fear that others are poised to do harm. Jealousy is the fear that you cannot attain what others possess. Disgust comes from the fear of that which you find repulsive or disagreeable. Letting go of your fears leaves you with nothing but "love"--the only thing you really need, the only "thing" worth your time and attention. From this frame-work my life became much simpler--no more wondering or worrying about why I "feel" and "act" like this or that, or why someone else feels and acts the way they do. Love is easily discernable from fear...gotta go to work now...look forward to hearing from you all later.
Posted by Dinah on September 25, 2002, at 9:02:31
In reply to Re: Separating emotions from their source, posted by tancu on September 25, 2002, at 6:19:17
I'm glad you found a way to unlearn the defense mechanisms. They can cause as many problems as they solve.
My problem is that I have long behaved in ways that are problematic to me. I wish to change those behaviors. The first step to fixing a problem is to analyze the source of the problem so that a plan can be made to reduce the future incidents of the problem or to reduce the negative consequences of the problem. Thus the introspection.
I wish to prevent future meltdowns.
How did you let go of your fears?
Posted by Dinah on September 25, 2002, at 14:46:24
In reply to Separating emotions from their source, posted by Dinah on September 24, 2002, at 9:08:44
If my theory was correct, wouldn't there be happiness doors or joy doors to flood me?
There don't seem to be any of those.
Back to the old drawing board.
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 25, 2002, at 16:12:56
In reply to Re: Error in my theory, posted by Dinah on September 25, 2002, at 14:46:24
> If my theory was correct, wouldn't there be happiness doors or joy doors to flood me?
> There don't seem to be any of those.
---------------Perhaps negative emotions automatically inspire more rumination (and hence more triggers) than postive emotions in some (or all) people. If something happens that makes me happy, I usually just enjoy the moment and forget about it. If something bad happens, however, I know that I tend to think about it much more, trying to figure out my role in it and how to avoid it. I remember reading a study that some economists did that demonstrated people's fear of risk and loss was greater than their desire for potential gains.
Also, I do occasionally feel "floods" of emotions other than saddness, usually of empathy or (it's hard to describe) appreciation of beauty and goodness. Of course, I tend not to think about those afterward :)
Posted by tancu on September 25, 2002, at 20:20:37
In reply to Re: Separating emotions from their source » tancu, posted by Dinah on September 25, 2002, at 9:02:31
I can't say that I am "completely fearless" at the present time...the one time I did feel "completely fearless" brought with it some brand new life-experiences (a garden-variety brain disease, among others) that have consequently created "new" fears for me to deal with...I'm starting to believe that this is how "life" goes--as soon as you attain one level of surety, confidence, comfort, or "wisdom", you have created the opportunity to attain yet another level of surety, confidence, comfort, or "wisdom"...it seems as though "fear" causes one to perceive this newly created opportunity as hardship rather than growth...I try to "remember" to have "some faith" in the notion that there is a time for every purpose, and, that my own "presence" serves others as much as myself...I try to "remember" that there has never been a "time" when I did not exist, and that I can never "expire"...in short, I try to remember my "divinity" without getting too caught up in the drama of so-called human emotion...it doesn't always dissolve "every" fear, but it keeps my head up.
Posted by Mr. SadPuppyDog on September 27, 2002, at 14:14:49
In reply to Separating emotions from their source, posted by Dinah on September 24, 2002, at 9:08:44
Dinah, one thing I notice in your posts a lot is that you seem to be a severe overanalyzer. I dont think this "psychobabble" analyzing is going to do you any good at all, in fact it probably makes you worse. You dont need to introspect anymore...youve already introspected yourself into the ground its obvious. I read your posts and thing "geeeeezzzz this Dinah woman sounds like she is driving herself insane analyzing all her emotions, feelings, etc." Frankly, its stupid and will only lead to more problems, psychosis, etc.
Id seriously suggest that you consider ending your quest for healing thru talk therapy. Consider ending your relationship with your therapist, except for emergency situations. Even though your psychiatrist is really for emergency situations. If you must continue therapy, maybe consider a non open ended, non introspective type therapy such as Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. This will stop you from overanalyzing and introspecting so much.
I fear for you if you continue introspecting and overanalyzing so much. You just keep drilling, drilling, drilling into the ground with your overanalyzing introspective thoughts and pretty soon youre in the rubber room, pumped full of Haldol. Seriously that does happen to people.
Therapists can make mentally ill people worse!!!!
Mr Sad PuppyDog
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 27, 2002, at 20:04:11
In reply to Re: Separating emotions from their source, posted by Mr. SadPuppyDog on September 27, 2002, at 14:14:49
> one thing I notice in your posts a lot is that you seem to be a severe overanalyzer.
To repeat, please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
Bob
Posted by Zo on October 18, 2002, at 23:27:03
In reply to Separating emotions from their source, posted by Dinah on September 24, 2002, at 9:08:44
I can't help but feel, both from what you have described and your own comment on your post, that you are experiencing something much more likely to be neuroloigical in origin. That psychology overreaches itself, and that many are left unnecessarily unhappy for various and obvious reasons.I'd love to know what you think after reading something like Ratey's Shadow Syndromes. If you asked me, my educated guess would be that this separation is the way your brain works. How the mind stores memory is *such* an interesting subject. New Oliver Sacks piece in the New Yorker recently, did you see it?
Zo
Posted by Dinah on October 20, 2002, at 18:19:09
In reply to Re: Separating emotions from their source » Dinah, posted by Zo on October 18, 2002, at 23:27:03
Hi again, Zo.
I hadn't seen the Sacks article. I'll try to find it at the library. It is a fascinating subject. And I'd love to be able to figure out what is going on.
I did read Shadow Syndromes some time ago. It's funny how the same thing can look different with just a shift in focus. At the time, I was wondering Asperger's or schizotypal or schizoid. All possibilities, just a different theory. At some point does it all become neurological? Psychological explanations make a lot of sense. Neurological ones do too, in come cases.
I'm currently reading The Synaptic Self (just started) about how our mind creates our self. Again, fascinating.
I don't suppose I'll ever answer the question of why I do the things I do. I wonder if anyone ever does.
Dinah
This is the end of the thread.
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