![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by metafunj on November 2, 2009, at 18:49:39
Which of the legal stimulants have the highest dopamine to norepinephrine ratio?
Posted by Phidippus on November 2, 2009, at 20:36:54
In reply to Which Drug increase dopamine the most?, posted by metafunj on November 2, 2009, at 18:49:39
Dextroamphetamine.
P
Posted by metafunj on November 2, 2009, at 23:24:59
In reply to Re: Which Drug increase dopamine the most? » metafunj, posted by Phidippus on November 2, 2009, at 20:36:54
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448202/
According to this study, in humans methylphenidate is the strongest inhibitor of DAT. If you scroll down to methods you can see they used D-amphetamine. The study shows D-amphetamine blocks more NETs than DATs.
I wonder if Modafinil works more on DAT than NET? Wellbutrin is supposed to be stronger on DAT than NET as well but it felt like just NRI to me based on side effects.
Posted by Phidippus on November 2, 2009, at 23:32:38
In reply to Re: Which Drug increase dopamine the most? » Phidippus, posted by metafunj on November 2, 2009, at 23:24:59
> According to this study, in humans methylphenidate is the strongest inhibitor of DAT.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted more DAT not less!
P
Posted by metafunj on November 2, 2009, at 23:52:11
In reply to Re: Which Drug increase dopamine the most? » metafunj, posted by Phidippus on November 2, 2009, at 23:32:38
DAT is short for Dopamine(DA) Transporter. Sorry for the confusion and not explaining abbreviations.
The study showed the methyphenidate blocked the reuptake of dopamine better than dextroamphetamine. I wonder which drug is a more potent releaser of dopamine? Someone posted once that ritalin stimulates the release of dopamine in the brain stem but other drugs don't.
Posted by delna on November 3, 2009, at 3:45:40
In reply to Re: Which Drug increase dopamine the most? » Phidippus, posted by metafunj on November 2, 2009, at 23:24:59
> I wonder if Modafinil works more on DAT than NET? Wellbutrin is supposed to be stronger on DAT than NET as well but it felt like just NRI to me based on side effects.
I'm sorry if this sounds like a dumb question but I am really trying to figure something out...
How can you tell the difference between increased dopamine versus increased NA - clinically and in terms of benefits? Why would you want more of one than of another?Thanks
TC
D
Posted by metafunj on November 3, 2009, at 14:43:59
In reply to Re: Which Drug increase dopamine the most? » metafunj, posted by delna on November 3, 2009, at 3:45:40
Thats a good question since it can be hard to tell. Dopamine should increase positive mood and can cause eurphoria. Too much would increase paranoia. It also increase your ability to focus on one thing. The biggest difference is that it can make you obsessive about one thing and it increases your desire for pleasurable experiences such as sex and drugs. It increases libido.
Norepinephrine seems to raise blood pressure and can cause tinnitus as well as induce seizures. Norepinephrine decrease libido in males because Norepinephrine is released after orgasm and causes the penis to go flaccid. So just imagine having that chemical elevated all the time. Norepinephrine promotes wakefulness and energy as well.
I believe many of the positive effects of norepinephrine reuptake inhibition come from the fact that the Norepinephrine neurons in the prefrontal cortex take up Dopamine as well and metabolize it into norepinephrine. If you block this transporter on the norepinephrine neuron it allows more dopamine to circulate.
There seems to be a lot of overlap with the effects of Dopamine and Norepinephrine, but the main difference seems to be that dopamine should increase pleasure and mood while norepinephrine increases energy. Another reason it could be hard to perceive the difference is because Dopamine is metabolized into Norepinephrine, and then into epinephrine(adrenaline).
Posted by g_g_g_unit on November 3, 2009, at 22:48:43
In reply to Re: Which Drug increase dopamine the most? » delna, posted by metafunj on November 3, 2009, at 14:43:59
> Thats a good question since it can be hard to tell. Dopamine should increase positive mood and can cause eurphoria. Too much would increase paranoia. It also increase your ability to focus on one thing. The biggest difference is that it can make you obsessive about one thing and it increases your desire for pleasurable experiences such as sex and drugs. It increases libido.
>isn't it more to do with where dopamine is distributed? i have wondered about this because my OCD (an almost ADHD-like 'overfocus' on certain neutral stimuli like my breathing, blinking, etc.) also came accompanied by terrible addictive tendencies like spending, alcohol addition, etc.
i've wondered if those two factors co-existing indicate a dopamine problem in a specific area.
conversely, when depression, i am pretty much schizoid - anhedonic, OCD dies down, so does anxiety, but then i find it impossible to focus on anything
Posted by metafunj on November 3, 2009, at 23:09:34
In reply to Re: Which Drug increase dopamine the most?, posted by g_g_g_unit on November 3, 2009, at 22:48:43
You are right but I don't know much about the different areas of the brain. I guess I'm still a junior babbler. ;-)
Posted by g_g_g_unit on November 3, 2009, at 23:53:18
In reply to Re: Which Drug increase dopamine the most? » g_g_g_unit, posted by metafunj on November 3, 2009, at 23:09:34
> You are right but I don't know much about the different areas of the brain. I guess I'm still a junior babbler. ;-)
oh totally, wasn't trying to call you out :) just wish i could find a psych who would take all of this into account.
Posted by delna on November 4, 2009, at 7:19:07
In reply to Re: Which Drug increase dopamine the most? » delna, posted by metafunj on November 3, 2009, at 14:43:59
Thanks for the reply and for educating me.
>>Dopamine ...... It also increase your ability to focus on one thing. The biggest difference is that it can make you obsessive about one thing and it increases your desire for pleasurable experiences such as sex and drugs. It increases libido.
Funny you should say that. I went on Mirapex for depression and I was so focused but on just one thing (digital art).I was so obsessed, I literally didn't look up from the computer to the point that I would forget to eat.It also made me seriously oversexed. Still when it came to choosing between a hot guy and the my digital art obsession- the art always won! So I think I need a bit of DA for mood but not too much :)
>Norepinephrine decrease libido in males because Norepinephrine is released after orgasm and causes the penis to go flaccid. So just imagine having that chemical elevated all the time.Wow, that would suck!
>>Norepinephrine promotes wakefulness and energy as well.
I need loads of that!
> Another reason it could be hard to perceive the difference is because Dopamine is metabolized into Norepinephrine, and then into epinephrine(adrenaline).
Hmm...here is where is becomes more complex. Especially since I also read the next post about the relevance of which areas of the brain are affected.
I wish it were as simple as:
"You have no drive so take this DA pill and that NA one for lack of energy" But alas.But I do think that the knowledge some people have on this advanced board surpasses that of MOST psychiatrists. They should hand out special honorary degrees to some babblers!
Take care
Thanks again
D
Posted by metafunj on November 4, 2009, at 18:02:39
In reply to Re: Which Drug increase dopamine the most? » metafunj, posted by delna on November 4, 2009, at 7:19:07
Some of us have more experience with the drugs because we have actually taken them and know what their effects are.
Mirapex agonizes certain DA receptors, mainly the D3 receptor(5-fold), which is considered to cause the hypersexuality. It also bind to the D3 and D4 receptors, but not as strongly.
So while you had the effects of dopamine from that agonist it wasn't spread to all receptors equally and some receptors like the D1 and D5 weren't being touched at all.
Posted by JohnnyBLinux on November 12, 2009, at 4:15:29
In reply to Which Drug increase dopamine the most?, posted by metafunj on November 2, 2009, at 18:49:39
IMO, in descending order:
1) Desoxyn
2) Dexedrine or Adderall
3) methylphenidate (generic Ritalin)
4) MAOIsI am not a pdoc or MD.
Posted by conundrum on November 12, 2009, at 21:08:44
In reply to Re: Which Drug increase dopamine the most?, posted by JohnnyBLinux on November 12, 2009, at 4:15:29
interesting list. thanks.
Posted by mtdewcmu on January 2, 2010, at 11:28:03
In reply to Re: Which Drug increase dopamine the most? » delna, posted by metafunj on November 3, 2009, at 14:43:59
> Thats a good question since it can be hard to tell. Dopamine should increase positive mood and can cause eurphoria. Too much would increase paranoia. It also increase your ability to focus on one thing. The biggest difference is that it can make you obsessive about one thing and it increases your desire for pleasurable experiences such as sex and drugs. It increases libido.
>
> Norepinephrine seems to raise blood pressure and can cause tinnitus as well as induce seizures. Norepinephrine decrease libido in males because Norepinephrine is released after orgasm and causes the penis to go flaccid. So just imagine having that chemical elevated all the time. Norepinephrine promotes wakefulness and energy as well.
>This sounds like a vast oversimplification, because a specific norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor, Strattera, is known to cause sedation in a lot of people.
Stimulation seems to come, somewhat mysteriously, from a mixture of dopamine and norepinephrine. Increasing dopamine, for instance, tends to produce in people and lab animals semi-involuntary movements, making it very hard to remain still. Dopamine seems to be an essential part of stimulation.
Posted by mtdewcmu on January 2, 2010, at 11:34:11
In reply to Re: Which Drug increase dopamine the most? » Phidippus, posted by metafunj on November 2, 2009, at 23:24:59
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448202/
>
> According to this study, in humans methylphenidate is the strongest inhibitor of DAT. If you scroll down to methods you can see they used D-amphetamine. The study shows D-amphetamine blocks more NETs than DATs.
>
> I wonder if Modafinil works more on DAT than NET? Wellbutrin is supposed to be stronger on DAT than NET as well but it felt like just NRI to me based on side effects.Wellbutrin is a stronger blocker of DAT, but if I remember correctly its active metabolite(s) are stronger blockers of NAT and they achieve higher concentrations than the parent drug.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Neurotransmitters | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.