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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by bluemonday1968 on February 23, 2008, at 13:22:50
was anybody offended by the news several
days after the Niu shootings where they stressed again and again that stoping the dangerous
(antipsychotic???) drug Prozac my have been
resposible for these terrible shootings.I forget
what news channel but at one point they had
an "expert" claim these psych meds are as
bad as a loaded gun!!.I understand every one
is entitled to an opinion.But what if this
report report prevented someone from getting
the help they need.
Posted by bluemonday1968 on February 23, 2008, at 14:18:58
In reply to Psych medicine and the Niu shhotings, posted by bluemonday1968 on February 23, 2008, at 13:22:50
Oops again posted in the wrong place
Sorry
S
Posted by Jamal Spelling on February 23, 2008, at 14:20:53
In reply to Psych medicine and the Niu shhotings, posted by bluemonday1968 on February 23, 2008, at 13:22:50
> I forget
> what news channel but at one point they had
> an "expert" claim these psych meds are as
> bad as a loaded gun!!.Another expert from Experts-R-Us.
Posted by Jamal Spelling on February 23, 2008, at 14:29:04
In reply to Psych medicine and the Niu shhotings, posted by bluemonday1968 on February 23, 2008, at 13:22:50
> I forget
> what news channel but at one point they had
> an "expert" claim these psych meds are as
> bad as a loaded gun!!.I hope the terrorists don't learn of this. Last thing we need is terrorists taking Prozac.
Posted by ShawnThomas on February 24, 2008, at 23:53:19
In reply to Psych medicine and the Niu shhotings, posted by bluemonday1968 on February 23, 2008, at 13:22:50
Yes, I do find that extremely offensive. This young man knew exactly what he was doing and should be regarded as a murderer who was completely responsible for his actions that day. Check out http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-prozac_19feb19,0,7626304.story for an article that cites actual experts.
Shawn
Posted by bleauberry on February 27, 2008, at 18:42:41
In reply to Psych medicine and the Niu shhotings, posted by bluemonday1968 on February 23, 2008, at 13:22:50
Most of what any media reporter has to say is highly opinionated, even when it appears completely factual. This particular reporter is obviously biased against psych drugs, or else maybe trying to score browny points with the boss since bashing psych drugs is a trendy thing to do.
Having said that, yeah, sure, there are documentable cases of horrible crimes taking place while a person was starting, maintaining, or withdrawing from a drug. How anyone could scientifically objectively link that directly to the drug, I do not know.
I have suffered some pretty horrible withdrawals and some aweful paradoxical reactions on meds. Never wanted to hurt anyone or go crazy though.
Bizarre behavior has more to do with lead and mercury in my opinion. Since primary symptoms of mercury or lead toxicity are psychiatric in nature, I have no doubt personally that many many people on psych drugs are misdiagnosed and really need to be on low dose frequent dose chelation drugs instead of psych drugs. Opinion. The bizarre behaviors we see in the news just fit a lot better to how metals mess with the mind rather than a drug reaction.
Posted by 49er on March 1, 2008, at 15:15:20
In reply to Re: Psych medicine and the Niu shhotings » bluemonday1968, posted by ShawnThomas on February 24, 2008, at 23:53:19
> Yes, I do find that extremely offensive. This young man knew exactly what he was doing and should be regarded as a murderer who was completely responsible for his actions that day. Check out http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-prozac_19feb19,0,7626304.story for an article that cites actual experts.
>
> ShawnShawn,
As one who suffered a severe reaction on Celexa, which included rage, I vehemently disagree with you. Fortunately, I got off the med pronto in spite of my psychiatrist's advice to stay on it. I shudder to think what would have happened if I had.
Laurie Yorke, an RN, who runs the Paxil Progress Boards, feels very lucky that her son didn't become the Illnois Shooter. Her son became psychotic during Paxil withdrawal due to what was a way too fast tapering schedule from an MD. He was suicidal and homicidal at the same time. Now that he is off Paxil, he is fine but is horrifed at his behavior when he was on the drugs. He was fine before Paxil also.
Laurie, an RN, had alot of faith in doctors. But if she had listened to them, her whole family might be dead, including her son.
I have also sadly learned through experience that just because someone has an MD by their name doesn't mean they know what they are talking about. I am not saying all doctors are bad but as I said to someone who trusted her doctor being on 31 meds, "that will get you killed".
By the way, I don't feel that all crimes are med related. In the case of the VT killer, I think his problems started way before he ever started SSRIS.
But in the case of the Ilinois Shooter, his best friend said when he started on meds initially, his behavior became worse.
And his girlfriend greatly worried about the effect of the meds n him. Remember, when he cold turkeyed prozac which I know from person experience leads to horrifice problems, he was also on two other meds at the same time.
Finally, psychiatrists who are not antimeds like Jay Cohen, Joseph Glenmullen, and David Healy have said that SSRIs can cause homicidal reactions.
Anyway, I am curious if you believe that meds can cause someone to do this even if you don't think it was the reason in this case?
49er
Posted by ShawnThomas on March 6, 2008, at 14:45:37
In reply to Re: Psych medicine and the Niu shhotings, posted by 49er on March 1, 2008, at 15:15:20
Prozac has a much longer half-life than Paxil or Celexa. Thus, Prozac is sometimes used to help reduce the withdrawal effects of other serotonin reuptake inhibitors with shorter half-lives. I made my comments based *specifically* on the case of the NIU shooter. He had not recently taken Celexa or Paxil to my knowledge, and he had stopped taking Prozac around three weeks before the killings. While your anecdote about Celexa is unfortunate, that anecdote does not in any way refute the arguments made by experts who believe that Prozac is not to blame in this case. I do believe that serotonin reuptake inhibitors have influenced the actions of other killers, but there is no evidence to suggest that in this case.
Shawn
Posted by 49er on March 9, 2008, at 7:23:31
In reply to Re: Psych medicine and the Niu shhotings » 49er, posted by ShawnThomas on March 6, 2008, at 14:45:37
> Prozac has a much longer half-life than Paxil or Celexa. Thus, Prozac is sometimes used to help reduce the withdrawal effects of other serotonin reuptake inhibitors with shorter half-lives. I made my comments based *specifically* on the case of the NIU shooter. He had not recently taken Celexa or Paxil to my knowledge, and he had stopped taking Prozac around three weeks before the killings. While your anecdote about Celexa is unfortunate, that anecdote does not in any way refute the arguments made by experts who believe that Prozac is not to blame in this case. I do believe that serotonin reuptake inhibitors have influenced the actions of other killers, but there is no evidence to suggest that in this case.
>
> ShawnShawn,
I became suicidal thanks to a psychiatrist cold turkeying me off of Prozac Experts would lead you to believe you don't need to taper from Prozac. That is totally untrue.
Remember, experts used to think that withdrawal symptoms from all antidepressants were mild at best. We now know how wrong they were.
Like I said, trusting experts will get you killed. That is not to condemm all medical professionals but just because they have an MD by their name doesn't mean they are right.
49er
Posted by ShawnThomas on March 10, 2008, at 11:13:15
In reply to Re: Psych medicine and the Niu shhotings, posted by 49er on March 9, 2008, at 7:23:31
I agree that tapering off Prozac is a must. Ideally, you should do this with the assistance of a medical professional. I don't know of any experts who advise people to stop taking Prozac cold turkey.
The shooting was around three weeks after he stopped taking Prozac, a drug associated with the longest half-life and the least problematic withdrawal effects of all the marketed serotonin reuptake inhibitors. In my opinion, those facts combined with the fact that he did not do this on an impulse suggest that this young man committed an undefensible action. I don't dispute that people have had problems with withdrawal symptoms from Prozac, but there is no valid scientific evidence available that Prozac withdrawal can induce homicide. Murder is wrong. Period.
His girlfriend told CNN that his parents committed him as a teen to a group home because he was "unruly" and used to cut himself.
She also said that recently he was "a little quicker to get annoyed."
"He wasn't erratic," she said. "He wasn't delusional."
If he were experiencing a strong withdrawal syndrome, his girlfriend would have probably found him more "erratic" and behaving unusually.
Rather than blaming Prozac, we should be focusing on how we can help "unruly" teens to become socially responsible young adults. Steve Kazmierczak had some serious mental issues that were present before he starting taking Prozac, and there are a multitude of reasons for his unconscionable actions.
Shawn
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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