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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SLS on March 15, 2022, at 14:46:12
"Review Describes Latest Findings on the Mechanisms of Psychedelic Drugs and Their Therapeutic Potential"http://bipolarnews.org/?p=5031
"Molecular targets of psychedelic-induced plasticity"https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jnc.15536
- Scott
Posted by Jay2112 on March 18, 2022, at 9:01:48
In reply to Psychedelics - Mechanisms, posted by SLS on March 15, 2022, at 14:46:12
>
> "Review Describes Latest Findings on the Mechanisms of Psychedelic Drugs and Their Therapeutic Potential"
>
> http://bipolarnews.org/?p=5031
>
>
>
>
> "Molecular targets of psychedelic-induced plasticity"
>
> https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jnc.15536
>
>
> - ScottWell, it is quite easy to order online magic mushrooms in Canada...usually from British Columbia. A few reasons...one, the police are fairly smart, and would rather go after opioid kingpins. Second, BC has one of the largest abundant's of magic mushrooms in the world.
Here is just one place that is quite popular...you can find a few on google:
https://www.magicmushroomsdispensary.ca/
They even have mushroom 'cafe's' in Vancouver, openly. A few of those were amongst the first few cannabis cafe's in Canada, before cannabis became legal in Canada.
My personal concern about trying them, even in micro-doses, is some of the warning signs about people with severe bipolar and schizophrenia. Has their safety in these populations been established?
Jay
Posted by linkadge on March 18, 2022, at 19:40:01
In reply to Psychedelics - Mechanisms, posted by SLS on March 15, 2022, at 14:46:12
Interesting, I wonder if MCPP, a metabolite of trazodone which is also a 5-ht2a/c agonist might participate in the therapeutic properties of the drug.
Many psychiatric drugs are 5-ht2a/c antagonists, so it's hard to reconcile their effects when 5-ht2a agonists are apparently effective for a similar set of disorders.
I read an article about how LSD did *not* share the same lasting antidepressant effects that psilocybin and that researchers had developed analogues of psilocybin which had antidepressant but not hallucinogenic effects.
Linkadge
Posted by Jay2112 on March 19, 2022, at 10:48:13
In reply to Re: Psychedelics - Mechanisms, posted by linkadge on March 18, 2022, at 19:40:01
> Interesting, I wonder if MCPP, a metabolite of trazodone which is also a 5-ht2a/c agonist might participate in the therapeutic properties of the drug.
>
> Many psychiatric drugs are 5-ht2a/c antagonists, so it's hard to reconcile their effects when 5-ht2a agonists are apparently effective for a similar set of disorders.
>
> I read an article about how LSD did *not* share the same lasting antidepressant effects that psilocybin and that researchers had developed analogues of psilocybin which had antidepressant but not hallucinogenic effects.
>
> Linkadge
>Yeah, I have wondered the same about 5ht2 antagonists/agonists. I responded greatly to nefadozone, an antagonist, but not so much trazodone. So, I wonder about the agonism property of psilocybin.
Jay
Posted by undopaminergic on March 19, 2022, at 11:05:08
In reply to Re: Psychedelics - Mechanisms, posted by Jay2112 on March 19, 2022, at 10:48:13
> > Interesting, I wonder if MCPP, a metabolite of trazodone which is also a 5-ht2a/c agonist might participate in the therapeutic properties of the drug.
> >
> > Many psychiatric drugs are 5-ht2a/c antagonists, so it's hard to reconcile their effects when 5-ht2a agonists are apparently effective for a similar set of disorders.
> >
> > I read an article about how LSD did *not* share the same lasting antidepressant effects that psilocybin and that researchers had developed analogues of psilocybin which had antidepressant but not hallucinogenic effects.
> >
> > Linkadge
> >
>
> Yeah, I have wondered the same about 5ht2 antagonists/agonists. I responded greatly to nefadozone, an antagonist, but not so much trazodone. So, I wonder about the agonism property of psilocybin.
>
> JayI think it is important to note that psychedelics are *partial* agonists at 5-HT2A receptors. Serotonin is a full agonist and has no (or very little) psychedelic potential. The antagonists, as far as I'm aware, are "full antagonists". So you would expect drugs that block 5-HT2A to antagonise psychedelics dose-dependently.
-undopaminergic
Posted by SLS on March 22, 2022, at 14:11:28
In reply to Re: Psychedelics - Mechanisms, posted by linkadge on March 18, 2022, at 19:40:01
Hi, Linkadge.
> Interesting, I wonder if MCPP, a metabolite of trazodone which is also a 5-ht2a/c agonist might participate in the therapeutic properties of the drug.
>
> Many psychiatric drugs are 5-ht2a/c antagonists, so it's hard to reconcile their effects when 5-ht2a agonists are apparently effective for a similar set of disorders.
>
> I read an article about how LSD did *not* share the same lasting antidepressant effects that psilocybin and that researchers had developed analogues of psilocybin which had antidepressant but not hallucinogenic effects.That's a big WOW.
My concern with trazodone is that it is metabolized into mCPP. mCPP is an agonist at 5-HT2a/c postsynaptic receptors. In addition, mCPP is a NE-alpha2 antagonist.
mCPP is not a good guy. It produces de novo anxiety or exacerbates existing anxiety. It makes OCD worse. It can make depression worse.
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on March 24, 2022, at 15:20:50
In reply to Re: Psychedelics - Mechanisms, posted by undopaminergic on March 19, 2022, at 11:05:08
>I think it is important to note that psychedelics >are *partial* agonists at 5-HT2A receptors. >Serotonin is a full agonist and has no (or very >little) psychedelic potential. The antagonists, as >far as I'm aware, are "full antagonists". So you >would expect drugs that block 5-HT2A to antagonise >psychedelics dose-dependently.
From what I understand too, there are some difference in the localization and/or function in 5-ht2a receptors that respond to serotonin vs. hallucinogens. Something about how hallucinogens active different 2nd messenger systems than serotonin. Way above my head.
Linkadge
Posted by SLS on March 24, 2022, at 21:07:34
In reply to Re: Psychedelics - Mechanisms, posted by linkadge on March 24, 2022, at 15:20:50
> >I think it is important to note that psychedelics >are *partial* agonists at 5-HT2A receptors. >Serotonin is a full agonist and has no (or very >little) psychedelic potential. The antagonists, as >far as I'm aware, are "full antagonists". So you >would expect drugs that block 5-HT2A to antagonise >psychedelics dose-dependently.
>
> From what I understand too, there are some difference in the localization and/or function in 5-ht2a receptors that respond to serotonin vs. hallucinogens. Something about how hallucinogens active different 2nd messenger systems than serotonin. Way above my head.I'm pretty sure it isn't. :-)
That's interesting stuff.
- Scott
This is the end of the thread.
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