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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SLS on March 6, 2022, at 12:22:41
Psilocybin Comparable to Escitalopram in the Treatment of Depression
http://bipolarnews.org/?p=5029
"The FDA has designated psilocybin a Breakthrough Therapy for severe depression, which indicates that the therapy may be a substantial improvement over existing therapies for a serious condition. The designation is intended to speed up the drug development and review process."
- Scott
Posted by SLS on March 6, 2022, at 12:24:54
In reply to Psilocybin Comparable to Escitalopram - Depression, posted by SLS on March 6, 2022, at 12:22:41
Posted by Jay2112 on March 7, 2022, at 13:04:38
In reply to Psilocybin Comparable to Escitalopram - Depression, posted by SLS on March 6, 2022, at 12:22:41
> Psilocybin Comparable to Escitalopram in the Treatment of Depression
>
>
> http://bipolarnews.org/?p=5029
>
>
> "The FDA has designated psilocybin a Breakthrough Therapy for severe depression, which indicates that the therapy may be a substantial improvement over existing therapies for a serious condition. The designation is intended to speed up the drug development and review process."
>
>
> - ScottWow! The FDA calling psilocybin a 'breakthrough therapy'....that should fast-track it right through the system and make it available asap, with just ut's safety having to be proven. Should be easy...but bureaucracy make's it not so likely.
Here in Canada, magic mushrooms are easily attainable, but the government has recently been giving people with terminal illness' are hard time over attaining them. Patients have to get their doctors to attain a special access for the mushrooms from Health Canada, under a Special Access program. The doctor then has to fill out nearly a book length worth of papers, basically finding one of the many startups that are experimenting with the drug, and then having to list, and explicitly explain 100's of clinical research trials that MUST have large amounts of participants, and of course favourable outcomes.
The problem is, most trials so far are fairly small, and don't exclusively deal with terminal illness anxiety and depression. So, having said, most doctors are obviously reluctant to take take on the 100's of hours of their research to get access to the psilocybin/magic mushrooms for a patient. It's, well, really stupid, since the government allows millions of other 'herbal' medicines, as long as they demonstrate safety. Even then..!! If I was in this position as a patient, I'd just order or buy from "illegal" sources. With mushrooms, I don't believe there is as near much of a worry of 'additive' substances like with many other illicit drugs.
Interestingly, here in Canada, numerous large cities, specifically Vancouver and Toronto, have sent formal requests to the Federal government to legalize ALL drugs, similar to what Portugal has done (and has had AMAZING success with combating drug use and deaths). One of the MOST important thing, and part of a myth about the 'overuse' of drugs, has little to do with actual drug use, and ALL to do with the purity, contents, and how the drugs are 'cut'. Most illegal dealers use large amounts of benzodiazepines in making heroin, for example, and that is a literal, killer combination, when it comes to suppression of breathing. Hence, that is what people are REALLY dying of. Cities now offer prescription heroin for that reason.
But, if I ended up with a terminal illness, you are damn right I am going to go out and buy mushrooms, available here in Canada on many websites...hell, they even advertise on Facebook!
Jay
Posted by Hugh on March 7, 2022, at 15:57:12
In reply to The state of Oregon legalized psilocybin in 2020 (nm), posted by SLS on March 6, 2022, at 12:24:54
In addition to becoming the first state to legalize psilocybin, Oregon became the first state to decriminalize personal possession amounts of ALL drugs. The insane and incredibly destructive 50-year War on Drugs is unraveling.
https://doubleblindmag.com/breaking-news-oregon-becomes-the-first-state-to-decriminalize-all-drugs/
Posted by SLS on March 8, 2022, at 6:22:12
In reply to Re: The state of Oregon legalized psilocybin in 2020, posted by Hugh on March 7, 2022, at 15:57:12
> In addition to becoming the first state to legalize psilocybin, Oregon became the first state to decriminalize personal possession amounts of ALL drugs. T
Does that include fentanyl? It makes a hell of a poison in minute amounts. It's perfect for committing homicide and accidental deaths from overdose.
https://oxfordtreatment.com/substance-abuse/fentanyl/lethal-dose/
What are your thoughts regarding Oregon's new laws that allow for the possession of all drugs, including prescription drugs and those that are synthesized strictly for use in laboratory experiments?
In my opinion, in the real world, extremes along a spectrum rarely serve society well. Oregon is definitely a case of polar thinking. Black or white, not grey. No colors. That seems like laziness on the part of the Oregon lawmakers to me. It's certainly an easy way to avoid the complexities of the issue altogether.
What are some of the drugs that you think should be regulated and made illegal to possess or distrubute? What are some examples of addressing our current societal problem death by fentanyl? What about fentanyl? Illegal or not?
.
Article from Harvard:
"DRUG OVERDOSE DEATHS HIT RECORD HIGH"
"More than 100,000 Americans died from drug overdoses between May 2020 and April 2021the most ever recorded in a single yearaccording to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention."
"Most of the deaths were due to opioids, fueled by the powerful drug fentanyl..."
"https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/drug-overdose-deaths-hit-record-high/"- Scott
Posted by Jay2112 on March 8, 2022, at 13:33:56
In reply to Re: The state of Oregon legalized psilocybin in 2020 » Hugh, posted by SLS on March 8, 2022, at 6:22:12
> > In addition to becoming the first state to legalize psilocybin, Oregon became the first state to decriminalize personal possession amounts of ALL drugs. T
>
> Does that include fentanyl? It makes a hell of a poison in minute amounts. It's perfect for committing homicide and accidental deaths from overdose.
>
> https://oxfordtreatment.com/substance-abuse/fentanyl/lethal-dose/
>
> What are your thoughts regarding Oregon's new laws that allow for the possession of all drugs, including prescription drugs and those that are synthesized strictly for use in laboratory experiments?
>
> In my opinion, in the real world, extremes along a spectrum rarely serve society well. Oregon is definitely a case of polar thinking. Black or white, not grey. No colors. That seems like laziness on the part of the Oregon lawmakers to me. It's certainly an easy way to avoid the complexities of the issue altogether.
>
> What are some of the drugs that you think should be regulated and made illegal to possess or distrubute? What are some examples of addressing our current societal problem death by fentanyl? What about fentanyl? Illegal or not?
>
> .
>
> Article from Harvard:
>
> "DRUG OVERDOSE DEATHS HIT RECORD HIGH"
>
> "More than 100,000 Americans died from drug overdoses between May 2020 and April 2021the most ever recorded in a single yearaccording to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention."
>
> "Most of the deaths were due to opioids, fueled by the powerful drug fentanyl..."
>
>
> "https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/drug-overdose-deaths-hit-record-high/"
>
>
>
> - ScottSorry, I know your post was directed at Hugh, but we are dealing with a massive fentanyl problem here in Canada as well. I think I mentioned, I am an Addictions and Mental Health worker. I am no expert, but have over 25 years experience in the field. Drug overdoses are, quite/most often, the result of additive drugs in the mix. Benzos are added in huge quantaties to opioids, for example. Heroin is now available by prescription in Toronto and Vancouver, and they actually have seen a big curb in Heroin OD's. Also to mention...Oregon is copying Portugal's drug policy, in which Portugal has seen a *massive* reduction in OD rates, HIV- needle transmissions, and drug related crime. But I believe, Oregon is also doing what Portugal did, and with possession, is mandating counselling, work with social workers, and providing monetary help for addicts.
Fentanyl, with OD'ing, is the exception, as even minute doses can be lethal. Anyhow, here is an article from the CBC on "5 Myths About Opioid Crisis" . It focuses on British Columbia, but this could be anywhere in North America. Please read. I think you will find it informing.
----------------------------------------
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/5-myths-toxic-drugs-1.6347454These 5 myths about B.C.'s toxic drug crisis are hurting efforts to stop the deaths, say experts
In the five years and 10 months since B.C. declared a public health emergency because of drug-related deaths, the problem has only gotten worse.
Statistics released by the B.C. Coroners Service this week confirmed that 2,224 lives were lost in 2021, making it the deadliest year on record.
Advocates argue part of the problem is that many people with the power to make a difference are relying on outdated or incorrect ideas.
"People don't want to actually confront some serious realities here, and so these comforting lies are embraced in many ways. It's horrible because it prevents all of us from actually addressing this in a real way," said Karen Ward, a drug policy consultant with the City of Vancouver.
Over 2,200 people died in B.C. in 2021 due to illicit-drug overdoses, coroner reports
To get a better handle on some of the misconceptions, CBC spoke to experts who are experiencing the crisis from three different viewpoints: Leslie McBain, co-founder of Moms Stop the Harm, chief coroner Lisa LaPointe, and Ward.
Here are five of the most common myths they've encountered.
It's an 'opioid' or 'overdose' crisisThese shorthands for the emergency have only become less accurate as the years wear on.
"People are actually trying to find opioids," Ward said. "The problem is that they're getting basically unknown substances."
If people don't know what they're taking, the word "overdose" which implies someone has simply taken too much hardly captures what's happening.
LaPointe adds that unlike in other parts of North America, B.C.'s crisis has never been about over-prescription of painkillers like oxycodone, and attempts to address the problem by limiting doctors' ability to prescribe opioids have been misguided at best.
The latest statistics from the coroner show a mishmash of drugs linked to deaths in B.C., with fentanyl and analogues like carfentanil detected in 91 per cent of fatal doses in December, and stimulants like methamphetamine and cocaine in 73 per cent
Perhaps most alarmingly, benzodiazepines were found in half of the samples, up from just 15 per cent in July 2020.
There could be some serious consequences as a result. For one thing, benzodiazepines are highly addictive, LaPointe notes.
"Withdrawing from opioids is difficult but it's nothing compared to withdrawing from benzodiazepines," she said.
There's also the fact that naloxone, one of the key planks in B.C.'s harm reduction strategy, will not reverse overdose from non-opioid drugs like benzodiazepines.
"Naloxone doesn't touch benzodiazepines," McBain explained.
B.C. has a safe supply of drugsAs it's been nearly two years since B.C. announced plans to provide a safe supply of drugs during the COVID-19 pandemic through access to prescription alternatives, shouldn't safe supply be widely available by now?
"I dearly wish that was true," LaPointe said.
She says she checks in regularly with health authorities to see how many people are able to access safe supply.
"The answer is always hardly anybody."
There are just a handful federally funded safe supply programs in B.C., all located in Vancouver and Victoria.
"How do you actually access them? Nobody really knows," Ward said. "If you have the social power to have your own doctor you might be able to do something."
McBain also takes issue with the drugs offered through the programs she's seen.
"If you're a person who, let's just say, is addicted to fentanyl, the government isn't willing to give you fentanyl. They say, 'Well, we're just going to give you some hydromorphone,'" she said.
"That doesn't work for people."
Only 'addicts' are dyingAccording to LaPointe, the B.C. Coroners Service convened a death review panel in December to discuss the drug poisoning crisis, and the data they reviewed show that people with severe drug dependencies do not represent the majority of deaths.
"You can be a first-time user, you can be a weekend user, you can be every few days, you can be a daily user," she said. "The supply is the unknown."
As overdose numbers climb, B.C. drug advocates question role of addictions ministries
Ward says the increasingly toxic drug supply is making her feel more and more worried about the dangers of what she describes as "the normals" people who might dabble in drugs for fun at a party, for example.
"If you're a regular user of an opiate, you've actually got the tolerance," she said. "But the vast majority of people who use drugs just do it a once in a while."
People die from injected drugsThe image of someone dying with a needle stuck in their arm just doesn't match up with B.C.'s reality. According to the latest report from the coroner, only 19 per cent of toxic drug deaths in 2020 could be traced to consumption through injection.
By far the most common path to a drug-related death in 2020 was through smoking, at 56 per cent.
"There is another myth that smoking is safer, but it is not," LaPointe said.
This is significant in part because of the role that supervised consumption sites and overdose prevention sites play in saving lives. According to the coroner, no one died of illicit drug poisoning at these sites in 2021, but they are still largely geared toward injection drug users.
"If we want to keep people safe, then consumption sites only for intravenous use or needle users are not going to be effective," LaPointe said.
She acknowledged concerns about protecting staff from drug fumes, but said overdose prevention sites are now beginning to accommodate more smokers.
It's a Downtown Eastside problemLaPointe describes this as one of the most frustrating myths she encounters.
"The drugs are toxic, so it doesn't matter where you live in the province or your socioeconomic status or your job. If you take a drug that is toxic, you will die," she said.
Even so, services for drug users in B.C. are largely concentrated in the downtown Vancouver core and other urban areas.
Thomus Donaghy saved many lives from overdoses. His killer wants to ensure his life 'wasn't lost for nothing'
Overdoses spike in small town B.C. as communities struggle for resources to tackle worsening opioid crisis
It's true that the largest number of toxic drug deaths happen in Vancouver, but every corner of the province is seeing people die from drug poisoning: the Thompson Cariboo, Northwest, Northern Interior and Fraser East regions saw some of the highest death rates in 2021.
"It is in every community in B.C.," McBain said.
"It is in rural communities, it's in small towns, it's in bigger towns, it's urban, and it just so happens that the people in the Downtown Eastside are more visible."
Posted by undopaminergic on March 8, 2022, at 14:13:26
In reply to Re: The state of Oregon legalized psilocybin in 2020 » Hugh, posted by SLS on March 8, 2022, at 6:22:12
> > In addition to becoming the first state to legalize psilocybin, Oregon became the first state to decriminalize personal possession amounts of ALL drugs. T
>
> Does that include fentanyl? It makes a hell of a poison in minute amounts. It's perfect for committing homicide and accidental deaths from overdose.
>
> https://oxfordtreatment.com/substance-abuse/fentanyl/lethal-dose/
>
> What are your thoughts regarding Oregon's new laws that allow for the possession of all drugs, including prescription drugs and those that are synthesized strictly for use in laboratory experiments?
>
> In my opinion, in the real world, extremes along a spectrum rarely serve society well. Oregon is definitely a case of polar thinking. Black or white, not grey. No colors. That seems like laziness on the part of the Oregon lawmakers to me. It's certainly an easy way to avoid the complexities of the issue altogether.
>
> What are some of the drugs that you think should be regulated and made illegal to possess or distrubute? What are some examples of addressing our current societal problem death by fentanyl? What about fentanyl? Illegal or not?
>Should the possession of cyanide or strychnine be illegal? What about fire arms?
Should paracetamol (acetaminophen) be available on prescription only, because it can be readily used to commit suicide?
-undopaminergic
Posted by SLS on March 8, 2022, at 20:17:01
In reply to Re: The state of Oregon legalized psilocybin in 2020 » SLS, posted by Jay2112 on March 8, 2022, at 13:33:56
Hi.
I appreciate your posting the information and your perspective. I guess we'll see whether or not Portugal makes a good model for Oregon. It's a great point you made regarding the use of one drug to add to another for illicit distribution.
I chose fentanyl as an example because I could think of no better example among drugs that are easily available to anyone who a doctor will prescribe it for. What about any of the millions of chemical substances that are synthesized to experiment on rats and rhesus monkeys? There are multitudinous "designer" drugs out there that scientists play with. Should they all be allowed to come into circulation legally?
It's that polar position at either end of a spectrum that bothers me.
What if thalidomide got people wonderfully stoned at high dosages? What if were legal to be manufactured by any Mom and Pop chemical lab in their basement without restraint? It was good money. A few years later: Oops.
I have a difficult time supporting the allowance for the unlimited acquisition and distribution of every chemical known, or yet to be known, by man.
Maybe everyone who is reckless, and perhaps dead, when using fentanyl recreationally will suddenly become safe and responsible users when it becomes legal?
I don't know.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on March 8, 2022, at 20:22:48
In reply to Re: The state of Oregon legalized psilocybin in 2020, posted by undopaminergic on March 8, 2022, at 14:13:26
> > > In addition to becoming the first state to legalize psilocybin, Oregon became the first state to decriminalize personal possession amounts of ALL drugs. T
> >
> > Does that include fentanyl? It makes a hell of a poison in minute amounts. It's perfect for committing homicide and accidental deaths from overdose.
> >
> > https://oxfordtreatment.com/substance-abuse/fentanyl/lethal-dose/
> >
> > What are your thoughts regarding Oregon's new laws that allow for the possession of all drugs, including prescription drugs and those that are synthesized strictly for use in laboratory experiments?
> >
> > In my opinion, in the real world, extremes along a spectrum rarely serve society well. Oregon is definitely a case of polar thinking. Black or white, not grey. No colors. That seems like laziness on the part of the Oregon lawmakers to me. It's certainly an easy way to avoid the complexities of the issue altogether.
> >
> > What are some of the drugs that you think should be regulated and made illegal to possess or distrubute? What are some examples of addressing our current societal problem death by fentanyl? What about fentanyl? Illegal or not?
> >
>
> Should the possession of cyanide or strychnine be illegal? What about fire arms?
>
> Should paracetamol (acetaminophen) be available on prescription only, because it can be readily used to commit suicide?
>
> -undopaminergic
It is unlikely that I would treat every example you listed exactly the same.But that's just me.
- Scott
Posted by undopaminergic on March 9, 2022, at 6:10:53
In reply to Re: The state of Oregon legalized psilocybin in 2020 » Jay2112, posted by SLS on March 8, 2022, at 20:17:01
>
> What about any of the millions of chemical substances that are synthesized"Millions"? Do you mean that literally?
> to experiment on rats and rhesus monkeys? There are multitudinous "designer" drugs out there that scientists play with. Should they all be allowed to come into circulation legally?
>Most of them are already legal in most countries. Some of them are already on sale on the Internet. They are usually called RCs, for Research Chemicals.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Hugh on March 9, 2022, at 10:28:28
In reply to Re: The state of Oregon legalized psilocybin in 2020 » Hugh, posted by SLS on March 8, 2022, at 6:22:12
I would not criminalize the possession of fentanyl. Making addicts criminals drives them underground, making it much less likely that they'll seek treatment for their addictions.
The following is from https://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/
In 2016 alone, an estimated 64,000 Americans died from opioid overdoses -- more than the combined death tolls for Americans in the Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq Wars. In Portugal [which decriminalized all drugs in 2001], meanwhile , the drug-induced death rate has plummeted to five times lower than the E.U. average and stands at one-fiftieth of the United States'. Its rate of HIV infection has dropped from 104.2 new cases per million in 2000 to 4.2 cases per million in 2015. Drug use has declined overall among the 15- to 24-year-old population, those most at risk of initiating drug use.
Posted by SLS on March 9, 2022, at 21:48:29
In reply to Re: The state of Oregon legalized psilocybin in 2020 » SLS, posted by Hugh on March 9, 2022, at 10:28:28
> I would not criminalize the possession of fentanyl. Making addicts criminals drives them underground, making it much less likely that they'll seek treatment for their addictions.
>
> The following is from https://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/
>
> In 2016 alone, an estimated 64,000 Americans died from opioid overdoses -- more than the combined death tolls for Americans in the Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq Wars. In Portugal [which decriminalized all drugs in 2001], meanwhile , the drug-induced death rate has plummeted to five times lower than the E.U. average and stands at one-fiftieth of the United States'. Its rate of HIV infection has dropped from 104.2 new cases per million in 2000 to 4.2 cases per million in 2015. Drug use has declined overall among the 15- to 24-year-old population, those most at risk of initiating drug use.This is a difficult problem to deliberate.
What about manufacturing and distributing fentanyl? Would you find that acceptable?
- Scott
Posted by Jay2112 on March 9, 2022, at 23:21:47
In reply to Re: The state of Oregon legalized psilocybin in 2020 » Hugh, posted by SLS on March 9, 2022, at 21:48:29
> > I would not criminalize the possession of fentanyl. Making addicts criminals drives them underground, making it much less likely that they'll seek treatment for their addictions.
> >
> > The following is from https://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/
> >
> > In 2016 alone, an estimated 64,000 Americans died from opioid overdoses -- more than the combined death tolls for Americans in the Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq Wars. In Portugal [which decriminalized all drugs in 2001], meanwhile , the drug-induced death rate has plummeted to five times lower than the E.U. average and stands at one-fiftieth of the United States'. Its rate of HIV infection has dropped from 104.2 new cases per million in 2000 to 4.2 cases per million in 2015. Drug use has declined overall among the 15- to 24-year-old population, those most at risk of initiating drug use.
>
> This is a difficult problem to deliberate.
>
> What about manufacturing and distributing fentanyl? Would you find that acceptable?
>
>
> - Scott
>Hi Scott:
I think maybe we are getting some ideas confused here. I *don't* think decriminalization means that we can just walk into a pharmacy and pick out any drug we want. What Portugal has done essentially means that if you are caught with whatever drug, you are not going to get criminally charged. Instead, you will go to a social worker/counsellor, and likely have to go through treatment. The premise of doing this is to keep people with addictions out of the insane prison system, and/or from marking them from life with a criminal record.
As well, I believe there are quantity limits. Like here in Canada, where we decriminalized cannabis, I can't start up a grow-op of rows of greenhouses for my own use. Just as I believe there would be laws governing the use of any substance. It's not about creating bastions of limitless, unregulated drug use. I think any (well..most..lol) recreational user would agree that there do have to be *some* limits and responsibility, and most certainly governments are not looking to create some kind of libertarian drug free-for-all. And that definitely is NOT what Portugal modelled it's drug possession policy after.
So, I hope that clears a few things up.
Jay :)
Posted by Hugh on March 10, 2022, at 14:16:08
In reply to Re: The state of Oregon legalized psilocybin in 2020 » Hugh, posted by SLS on March 9, 2022, at 21:48:29
I think that the manufacture and sale of fentanyl should be regulated, and that doctors and pharmacies that abuse the system should be held accountable. And I think that addiction should be treated as a disease instead of as a crime.
I agree with Jay. I'm not advocating a drug free-for-all. But it's clear that the system we have in place now is a disaster, and that the system Portugal has had in place since 2001 has been spectacularly successful. As Dr. Joćo Goulćo, the architect of Portugal's drug policy, said, "Everything is easier in an environment of decriminalization than it is in an environment of criminalization."
Posted by linkadge on March 11, 2022, at 17:30:49
In reply to Re: The state of Oregon legalized psilocybin in 2020 » SLS, posted by Hugh on March 10, 2022, at 14:16:08
Margaret Trudeau (the mother of Canada's current Prime Minister) wrote of her battle with bipolar. She used found marijuanna and magic mushrooms to be very helpful in the treatment of her depressive episodes. This was decades before there was any medical acceptance of such therapies.
Linkadge
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Script revised: February 4, 2008
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