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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by PCB on August 23, 2020, at 15:06:34
I recently met several people with mood disorders who were on new medications, but their symptoms were only mildly improved. No one took benzos, tricyclics or lithium which affect memory. Surprisingly, they are all well spoken without memory problems.
Are psychiatrists now prescribing less effective newer meds that avoid memory problems? (Sorry, I feel TCAs, MAOIs are better than SSRIs, SNRIs). What medication would you rather have?
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 24, 2020, at 4:07:04
In reply to Symptom Relief vs Cognitive Loss, posted by PCB on August 23, 2020, at 15:06:34
How about Rosmarin as a GABA-T inhibitor? Thats a mild GABAergic
Posted by linkadge on August 25, 2020, at 17:16:42
In reply to Re: Symptom Relief vs Cognitive Loss, posted by Lamdage22 on August 24, 2020, at 4:07:04
For me, the only things that help are the ones that completely wipe out my memory. There's nothing like amitriptyline to completely forget what the problems was in the first place, and then blast ahead with new energy an enthusiasm towards who the f*ck knows what. It's the only way to live.
Linkadge
Posted by PCB on August 25, 2020, at 20:51:58
In reply to Re: Symptom Relief vs Cognitive Loss, posted by linkadge on August 25, 2020, at 17:16:42
> For me, the only things that help are the ones that completely wipe out my memory. There's nothing like amitriptyline to completely forget what the problems was in the first place, and then blast ahead with new energy an enthusiasm towards who the f*ck knows what. It's the only way to live.
>Hahaha! Great post. Actually I respond to 3 treatments: Nardil, ECT and imipramine/low lithium/low Klonopin . I did love the way imipramine felt in terms of destroying my anxiety and dpression. But with my health care career I could not take Imi/Li/clo due to the memory loss.
Hey Linkage, I dont recall you mentioning you have been on a TCA?
Posted by linkadge on August 26, 2020, at 11:08:12
In reply to Linkage and Amitriptyline » linkadge, posted by PCB on August 25, 2020, at 20:51:58
Yes, I have taken clomipramine, amitriptyline, doxapin, and trimipramine. I would say they are more effective for depression for me. But, as you say, the side effects can make it a bit difficult in the long term. But, I wouldn't hesitate to return to them if I wasn't getting benefit from other meds.
Linkadge
Posted by beckett2 on August 27, 2020, at 20:58:13
In reply to Symptom Relief vs Cognitive Loss, posted by PCB on August 23, 2020, at 15:06:34
Trintellix improved my memory and cognition. Helps counterbalance the lamotrigine. A little stimulant helps me too.
Posted by SLS on August 27, 2020, at 23:41:33
In reply to Re: Symptom Relief vs Cognitive Loss, posted by linkadge on August 25, 2020, at 17:16:42
> For me, the only things that help are the ones that completely wipe out my memory. There's nothing like amitriptyline to completely forget what the problems was in the first place, and then blast ahead with new energy an enthusiasm towards who the f*ck knows what. It's the only way to live.
Perhaps amitriptyline is too anticholinergic for you. What advantages are there to taking amitriptyline compared to nortriptyline for your case, specifically? What are you trying to accomplish with amitriptyline that you can't accomplish with any other drug? If sleep is the issue, and you wanted some sort of mood improvement and enhanced sleep architecture, maybe trimipramine is worth considering. I know that genotoxicity is an important consideration for you, though.
After so many years of posting, I think we perhaps don't review our diagnosis and symptoms often enough.
I was very happy when you reported your depression remitting. What happened?
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on August 28, 2020, at 18:20:58
In reply to Re: Symptom Relief vs Cognitive Loss » linkadge, posted by SLS on August 27, 2020, at 23:41:33
I'm generally in a place where I feel ok. My problem is that I usually underdose medications. I should be taking more, but I usually take as little as I can get by with. The advantage is reduced side effects, the disadvantage is that I relapse frequently. Fortunately, the relapses don't last that long. I have had some success with things like agmatine, scopolamine and CBD for a faster acting way to counteract the relapses.
For depression, I found amitriptyline more effective than nortriptyline (even though both worked). For me, my memory becomes way too intense, and drugs like amitriptyline help to temporary wipe it out. So, to answer your question, I found amitriptyline more effective at wiping out my memory. I'm actually happiest when I can't remember a damn thing. Ignorance is bliss. So depression wise, amitriptyline is great, but in terms of functioning on a job, it can be a bit more difficult.
Linkadge
Posted by undopaminergic on August 29, 2020, at 2:33:29
In reply to Re: Symptom Relief vs Cognitive Loss » linkadge, posted by SLS on August 27, 2020, at 23:41:33
>
> After so many years of posting, I think we perhaps don't review our diagnosis and symptoms often enough.
>I don't know. I pretty recently realised that I don't have what can reasonably be called a "mood" disorder. Then again, I don't recall mood ever being the main problem. I have cognitive impairment (trouble concentrating, working memory deficit, and forgetfulness/learning difficulty) and apathy (I feel empty (out of ideas), "tired" (trouble with energy) and I have no enthiusiasm or lust).
-undopaminergic
Posted by linkadge on August 29, 2020, at 12:36:20
In reply to Re: Symptom Relief vs Cognitive Loss, posted by undopaminergic on August 29, 2020, at 2:33:29
Hmm. Did you have these symptoms before using stimulants, or do you feel that they came afterwards.
>and I have no enthiusiasm or lust
Oh god. You need something to enhance your lust! I hear they are working on a new lust-degrading-enzyme-inhibitor. Coming soon.
Kidding.
Linkadge
Posted by PCB on August 29, 2020, at 21:33:08
In reply to Re: Symptom Relief vs Cognitive Loss » undopaminergic, posted by linkadge on August 29, 2020, at 12:36:20
> Oh god. You need something to enhance your lust! I hear they are working on a new lust-degrading-enzyme-inhibitor. Coming soon.
Linkage .... I have been on a lust inhibitor for years. It is called, Argument with my Girlfriend, which happens once a week. Unfortunately, the half life of the lust inhibitor can be 2 to 3 days which runs into the next, Argument with my girlfriend.
:(
Sorry! Bad Joke
PCB
Posted by beckett2 on August 29, 2020, at 22:18:50
In reply to Re: Symptom Relief vs Cognitive Loss, posted by undopaminergic on August 29, 2020, at 2:33:29
> >
> > After so many years of posting, I think we perhaps don't review our diagnosis and symptoms often enough.
> >
>
> I don't know. I pretty recently realised that I don't have what can reasonably be called a "mood" disorder. Then again, I don't recall mood ever being the main problem. I have cognitive impairment (trouble concentrating, working memory deficit, and forgetfulness/learning difficulty) and apathy (I feel empty (out of ideas), "tired" (trouble with energy) and I have no enthiusiasm or lust).
>
> -undopaminergic
>A variation of ADHD? It can look just like what you describe above, including the empty of ideas thing.
Posted by undopaminergic on August 30, 2020, at 1:46:44
In reply to Re: Symptom Relief vs Cognitive Loss » undopaminergic, posted by linkadge on August 29, 2020, at 12:36:20
> Hmm. Did you have these symptoms before using stimulants, or do you feel that they came afterwards.
>Well, with methylphenidate, the change in symptoms was not temporally linked. However, there was a serious worsening due to PEA (phenylethylamine; with selegiline) abuse.
> >and I have no enthiusiasm or lust
>
> Oh god. You need something to enhance your lust! I hear they are working on a new lust-degrading-enzyme-inhibitor. Coming soon.
>Just for me!
-undopaminergic
Posted by undopaminergic on August 30, 2020, at 1:53:00
In reply to Re: Symptom Relief vs Cognitive Loss » undopaminergic, posted by beckett2 on August 29, 2020, at 22:18:50
> > >
> > > After so many years of posting, I think we perhaps don't review our diagnosis and symptoms often enough.
> > >
> >
> > I don't know. I pretty recently realised that I don't have what can reasonably be called a "mood" disorder. Then again, I don't recall mood ever being the main problem. I have cognitive impairment (trouble concentrating, working memory deficit, and forgetfulness/learning difficulty) and apathy (I feel empty (out of ideas), "tired" (trouble with energy) and I have no enthiusiasm or lust).
> >
> > -undopaminergic
> >
>
> A variation of ADHD? It can look just like what you describe above, including the empty of ideas thing.
>I do have ADHD (primarily inattentive, but with a little hyperactivity and impulsivity). However, I did not have the symptoms described above until long after my depression started.
Can ADHD get worse with time?
-undopaminergic
Posted by beckett2 on August 31, 2020, at 14:51:21
In reply to Re: Symptom Relief vs Cognitive Loss, posted by undopaminergic on August 30, 2020, at 1:53:00
My sense is the ADHD itself doesn't get worse with time, but other issues that affect the amygdala and other brain regions worsen the condition. Depression, anxiety, drug use, etc. I could be wrong.
Posted by beckett2 on August 31, 2020, at 14:52:45
In reply to Re: Symptom Relief vs Cognitive Loss » undopaminergic, posted by beckett2 on August 31, 2020, at 14:51:21
> My sense is the ADHD itself doesn't get worse with time, but other issues that affect the amygdala and other brain regions worsen the condition. Depression, anxiety, drug use, etc. I could be wrong.
Speaking as someone with ADHD inattentive, anxiety, depression, drug use
Posted by SLS on September 2, 2020, at 11:42:11
In reply to Re: Symptom Relief vs Cognitive Loss, posted by undopaminergic on August 29, 2020, at 2:33:29
> >
> > After so many years of posting, I think we perhaps don't review our diagnosis and symptoms often enough.
> >
>
> I don't know. I pretty recently realised that I don't have what can reasonably be called a "mood" disorder. Then again, I don't recall mood ever being the main problem. I have cognitive impairment (trouble concentrating, working memory deficit, and forgetfulness/learning difficulty) and apathy (I feel empty (out of ideas), "tired" (trouble with energy) and I have no enthiusiasm or lust).
>
> -undopaminergicAre you currently taking an SSRI? I'm sure you know what they can do to enthusiasm and lust.
Vortioxetine (Trintellix) is well known to improve cognition, even in the absence of a mood disorder. Definitely something to investigate.
- Scott
Posted by undopaminergic on September 2, 2020, at 14:29:55
In reply to Re: Symptom Relief vs Cognitive Loss » undopaminergic, posted by SLS on September 2, 2020, at 11:42:11
> > >
> > > After so many years of posting, I think we perhaps don't review our diagnosis and symptoms often enough.
> > >
> >
> > I don't know. I pretty recently realised that I don't have what can reasonably be called a "mood" disorder. Then again, I don't recall mood ever being the main problem. I have cognitive impairment (trouble concentrating, working memory deficit, and forgetfulness/learning difficulty) and apathy (I feel empty (out of ideas), "tired" (trouble with energy) and I have no enthiusiasm or lust).
> >
> > -undopaminergic
>
> Are you currently taking an SSRI? I'm sure you know what they can do to enthusiasm and lust.
>Yes. Fortunately I'm not on SSRIs. I'm on trimipramine, which, among drugs classified as "antidepressants", is the best I've found so far.
> Vortioxetine (Trintellix) is well known to improve cognition, even in the absence of a mood disorder. Definitely something to investigate.
>Yes, I'm interested in vortioxetine.
-undopaminergic
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