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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Prefect on October 25, 2019, at 17:43:39
I have a strange form of anxiety or depression (that's what doctors have called it, not sure that's all that's going on) that causes me to almost disengage and become disoriented for hours. It's like a VERY jittery zonk out, where my head settles into this horror filled state of catatonic inwardness. It's visceral, with no thought process involved. Completing even basic tasks becomes impossible, it almost borders on encephalopathy.
And, this may sound REALLY strange but I also subconsciously keep rolling in my left eye out of focus, tensing my left ear with my jaw to move it up, and pressing my left lung with my diaphragm to hyper-inflate it. It's an automatic process, and can't figure out how to stop it.
Also, I have tremors in my knees, head, and hands. Ophthalmologists have told me I have a tremor in my eyeballs. Not eyelids, eyeballs.
It's worse in the mornings and gets better in the evening and at night time I feel almost normal.
Have tried Luvox, Zoloft, Trintellix with 2mg Abilify, none of them did anything.
When it's really bad if I ingest a shot or two of whiskey on an empty stomach I get immense relief from a lot of the above issues within 5 minutes. Even after the alcohol wears off I'm better than I was before taking the alcohol. Benzos don't seem to provide any relief, so not sure it's a GABA mechanism...?
I'm curious to know which of alcohol's mechanisms kicks in within 5 minutes so I can figure out what pharmacology I should pursue.
Thanks a bunch.
Posted by rjlockhart37 on October 25, 2019, at 20:48:41
In reply to Alcohol - Relief immediately upon ingestion, posted by Prefect on October 25, 2019, at 17:43:39
oh yes, a shot of tequila or a ingestion of moderate alcohol, yes you are correct, it provide relief of anxiety, it's the oldest substance that has been used. Ancient times, and all that stuff.....i know it works on GABA, but i did research on ethonol and its mechansim of action, it works somwewhat on dopamine, but the rest you would have to google, type "ethanol mechanism of action"
It's the most common stress reliever after a hard day
Posted by sigismund on October 26, 2019, at 2:29:08
In reply to Alcohol - Relief immediately upon ingestion, posted by Prefect on October 25, 2019, at 17:43:39
My problem was permeability and impingement. Alcohol works, as you say, as did amphetamine. I'd go to see my accountant and couldn't concentrate on the meaning of his words but entered (as if) into him and the cloud of words surrounded me, or so I made it seem. With amphetamine I could actually understand what he was saying. For me it was (and still is) the lack of an edge or boundary. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself, but it's not convenient.
Posted by linkadge on October 26, 2019, at 7:01:47
In reply to Alcohol - Relief immediately upon ingestion, posted by Prefect on October 25, 2019, at 17:43:39
Alcohol is kind-of a dirty drug. It does affect gaba, but it also affects serotonin, dopamine, endocannabinoids etc.
Lamotrigine or another anticonvulsant (i.e. gabapentin) might be worth a try. There is a supplement called agmatine (cheap) might be worth trying.
Supplements like magnesium and / or niacin might help reduce excitatory neurotransmission (if this is the issue).
Linkadge
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 26, 2019, at 9:40:24
In reply to Re: Alcohol - Relief immediately upon ingestion, posted by linkadge on October 26, 2019, at 7:01:47
I get paranoid on alcohol. It's not a cureall and a very addictive substance. Don't be fooled into thinking that alcohol is a solution for anything.
Posted by Prefect on October 26, 2019, at 12:34:47
In reply to Re: Alcohol - Relief immediately upon ingestion, posted by sigismund on October 26, 2019, at 2:29:08
Coffee makes my symptoms worse, I can imaging amphetamine would be 1000 times worse for me.
Posted by beckett2 on October 26, 2019, at 17:52:34
In reply to Alcohol - Relief immediately upon ingestion, posted by Prefect on October 25, 2019, at 17:43:39
First thought is gaba. But OP says alcohol has many effects. Second thought was that certain benzodiazepines are used in epilepsy.
This might sound horrifying to some, but two shots of whiskey per day is not the worst substance I can think of ingesting. Worked in the old days. Just not to compulsion or alcoholism....
Posted by Prefect on October 26, 2019, at 20:38:46
In reply to Re: Alcohol - Relief immediately upon ingestion » Prefect, posted by beckett2 on October 26, 2019, at 17:52:34
Problem is my condition is so pervasive I don't stop there. Alcohol is short acting, and I have developed a pattern of alcohol abuse over the last year and a half that involves me consuming a litre of whiskey a day for a month or two each time that's resulted in me being hospitalized numerous times with alcoholic hepatitis and in need of detox. I have an inflamed fatty liver now, and might very well have cirrhosis (about to get it checked out).
I need to find a more viable pharmaceutical option to control my symptoms.
Posted by sigismund on October 27, 2019, at 0:22:17
In reply to Re: Alcohol - Relief immediately upon ingestion » beckett2, posted by Prefect on October 26, 2019, at 20:38:46
Aside from your question.......I find Campral of some help to keep my drinking within limits, if I have decided to do so. It is not a replacement, just a help.
Posted by Beckett2 on October 27, 2019, at 10:46:10
In reply to Re: Alcohol - Relief immediately upon ingestion » beckett2, posted by Prefect on October 26, 2019, at 20:38:46
> Problem is my condition is so pervasive I don't stop there. Alcohol is short acting, and I have developed a pattern of alcohol abuse over the last year and a half that involves me consuming a litre of whiskey a day for a month or two each time that's resulted in me being hospitalized numerous times with alcoholic hepatitis and in need of detox. I have an inflamed fatty liver now, and might very well have cirrhosis (about to get it checked out).
>
> I need to find a more viable pharmaceutical option to control my symptomsI completely understand. Then a long acting benzodiazepine is likely off the table. OP suggested lamotrigine, (among other suggestions). There is Lyrica (another anti convulsant) although that has abuse potential.
What have you tried?
(Apologies, I dont know neuroscience chemistry.)
Posted by Prefect on October 27, 2019, at 11:41:09
In reply to Re: Alcohol - Relief immediately upon ingestion » Prefect, posted by Beckett2 on October 27, 2019, at 10:46:10
I've tried Fluvoxamine, zoloft, trintellix with 2 mg abilify.
None have addressed the symptoms I described.
Posted by rjlockhart37 on October 28, 2019, at 0:23:17
In reply to Re: Alcohol - Relief immediately upon ingestion, posted by rjlockhart37 on October 25, 2019, at 20:48:41
i hate to say this in these terms: but when they took me off alprazoam and sent me to another doctor, alcohol was the withdrawl relief, and i know that sounds crude and odd, but i was taken off high doses of benzos, and it was hell, i had to have hard alcohol, i would take a couple drinks of tequila, and would notice it would ease the withdrawl, anxiety relief
But many times that's completly backwards, using diazepam for alcohol withdrawl
but that times is over with and very glad
Posted by Ruuudy on October 28, 2019, at 14:25:32
In reply to Re: Alcohol - Relief immediately upon ingestion, posted by rjlockhart37 on October 28, 2019, at 0:23:17
I'm gonna come off as being silly-stupid, but because I don't drink, I don't know.
Are there different kinds of alcohol in the various kinds of drinks?
I mean, is the alcohol that's in beer different than the alcohol that's in whiskey?
And if so, that could perhaps explain why certain drinks affect your brain chemistry differently.Rufy
Posted by rjlockhart37 on October 28, 2019, at 16:38:47
In reply to Re: Alcohol - Relief immediately upon ingestion, posted by Ruuudy on October 28, 2019, at 14:25:32
yes, hard alcohol feels diffrent than a beer or wine, and even vokda, tequila, rum have their own effects, but still have alcohol similar effect. If you drink beers or wine you would notice it's diffrent than drink striaght tequila, hard alcohol changes behavior more than beers, wine coolers, etc. Your more active and euphoric. I don't know why there diffrent because they all are the same : ethanol. Teqila is euphoric, gin can make your personality change and turn mean, rum like the old stories of piractes on ships they drank rum and had a sedative euphoric effect.
And even diffrent wines, and malt beverages have diffrent behavior effects. That's something to investigate, but it's....there's not enough resources on the net, you would have to do major research why their diffrent. But yes, they each have behavior differences, but all provide sedation
Posted by phidippus on November 30, 2019, at 19:28:27
In reply to Alcohol - Relief immediately upon ingestion, posted by Prefect on October 25, 2019, at 17:43:39
> that causes me to almost disengage and become disoriented for hours. It's like a VERY jittery zonk out, where my head settles into this horror filled state of catatonic inwardness.
Sounds like disassociation and depersonalization.
>Completing even basic tasks becomes impossible, it almost borders on encephalopathy.
What are you thinking while in this state? Does it cause distress?
> I also subconsciously keep rolling in my left eye out of focus, tensing my left ear with my jaw to move it up, and pressing my left lung with my diaphragm to hyper-inflate it. It's an automatic process, and can't figure out how to stop it.
Partial seizures can account for much of this activity.
> Also, I have tremors in my knees, head, and hands. Ophthalmologists have told me I have a tremor in my eyeballs. Not eyelids, eyeballs.
How long do these tremors last? Tremor in the eyeballs is known as nystagmus.
> Have tried Luvox, Zoloft, Trintellix with 2mg Abilify, none of them did anything.
Have you tried anticonvulsants?
> When it's really bad if I ingest a shot or two of whiskey on an empty stomach I get immense relief from a lot of the above issues within 5 minutes.
Alcohol acts on a lot receptors but most noticeably GABA and NMDA receptors...Some dopamine.
Phidippus
Posted by Ruuudy on November 30, 2019, at 22:32:54
In reply to Re: Alcohol - Relief immediately upon ingestion, posted by phidippus on November 30, 2019, at 19:28:27
GABA & NMDA? These are the "hot" receptors right now getting all the attention!
Could it be that micro-dosing alcohol brings benefit to the brain?
Rudy
> Alcohol acts on a lot receptors but most noticeably GABA and NMDA receptors...Some dopamine.
>
> Phidippus
>
This is the end of the thread.
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