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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SLS on October 30, 2018, at 16:17:22
My doctor keeps bringing up TMS magnetic treatments. I never thought very much of it for severe treatment-resistant depression. A friend of mine was treated by Mark George while the two of us were patients at the NIH. Years ago, he told her that her degree of treatment-resistance made her a poor candidate for rTMS. Perhaps he has changed his opinion since. I don't know.
How does deep TMS compare to the original TMS that uses the Neurostar machine?
Any help on this would be appreciated.
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by Hugh on October 30, 2018, at 20:46:35
In reply to Deep TMS versus Original TMS?, posted by SLS on October 30, 2018, at 16:17:22
Neurostar TMS penetrates about 2 cm into the brain. Deep TMS penetrates about twice as far. The clinician johnLA went to for Deep TMS had worked with both Neurostar and Deep TMS. She told him that there was significant efficacy over regular TMS with the newer Deep TMS.
These are the studies that Mark George has been working on recently:
http://scresearch.org/studies/browse/by_researcher/mark-george--3
George's main area of interest these days is Synchronized TMS (sTMS), which appears to be more effective than Neurostar or Deep TMS. Unfortunately, sTMS probably won't be available for a few more years.
Posted by SLS on October 31, 2018, at 8:07:30
In reply to Re: Deep TMS versus Original TMS?, posted by Hugh on October 30, 2018, at 20:46:35
> Neurostar TMS penetrates about 2 cm into the brain. Deep TMS penetrates about twice as far. The clinician johnLA went to for Deep TMS had worked with both Neurostar and Deep TMS. She told him that there was significant efficacy over regular TMS with the newer Deep TMS.
>
> These are the studies that Mark George has been working on recently:
>
> http://scresearch.org/studies/browse/by_researcher/mark-george--3
>
> George's main area of interest these days is Synchronized TMS (sTMS), which appears to be more effective than Neurostar or Deep TMS. Unfortunately, sTMS probably won't be available for a few more years.I am very, very appreciative of the information you provide.
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by Hugh on October 31, 2018, at 8:30:21
In reply to Re: Deep TMS versus Original TMS?, posted by SLS on October 31, 2018, at 8:07:30
You're welcome, Scott. It's good to see you posting again. You were missed.
> > Neurostar TMS penetrates about 2 cm into the brain. Deep TMS penetrates about twice as far. The clinician johnLA went to for Deep TMS had worked with both Neurostar and Deep TMS. She told him that there was significant efficacy over regular TMS with the newer Deep TMS.
> >
> > These are the studies that Mark George has been working on recently:
> >
> > http://scresearch.org/studies/browse/by_researcher/mark-george--3
> >
> > George's main area of interest these days is Synchronized TMS (sTMS), which appears to be more effective than Neurostar or Deep TMS. Unfortunately, sTMS probably won't be available for a few more years.
>
> I am very, very appreciative of the information you provide.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by bleauberry on November 22, 2018, at 11:26:57
In reply to Deep TMS versus Original TMS?, posted by SLS on October 30, 2018, at 16:17:22
I've seen advertisements for this recently that show very good results. I'm skeptical. But I'm open. Everything should be on the table. At this point though, maybe after trying it, the game has to change. The docs have had how many decades to demonstrate their impotence with your case? I know you have a bond with them forged over many years of trials and errors, so I am not slamming that. Only slamming the actual under-performance.
I would try it.
I would also strongly consider things shared in your brain damage post which I responded to.
I think at this point it is wise to consider all things which are not psychiatric prescriptions.
Posted by pedr on November 23, 2018, at 8:07:34
In reply to Deep TMS versus Original TMS?, posted by SLS on October 30, 2018, at 16:17:22
> How does deep TMS compare to the original TMS that uses the Neurostar machine?
No idea TBH, sorry. My only input is that I received 42 sessions of dTMS and it had zero discernable effect. It's a lot of effort and time - a big commitment. Fortunately I got mine for free on a "scholarship". I can fwd the details if you like.
Pedr
Posted by SLS on November 23, 2018, at 13:56:32
In reply to Re: Deep TMS versus Original TMS? » SLS, posted by pedr on November 23, 2018, at 8:07:34
> > How does deep TMS compare to the original TMS that uses the Neurostar machine?
>
> No idea TBH, sorry. My only input is that I received 42 sessions of dTMS and it had zero discernable effect. It's a lot of effort and time - a big commitment. Fortunately I got mine for free on a "scholarship". I can fwd the details if you like.
>
> PedrThat would be great. Thank you.
- Scott
Posted by pedr on November 23, 2018, at 21:05:08
In reply to Re: Deep TMS versus Original TMS? » pedr, posted by SLS on November 23, 2018, at 13:56:32
here ya go : https://hprtc.com/
I think you'd have to ask about the free ride. Being of a skeptical nature, I enquired about why they were giving away free rides. Turns out the owner (multi-billionaire)'s daughter had TRD and dTMS basically resolved it. Hence he is a believer and also believes he can make money off of it if the word is spread sufficiently.
Both machines sat unused whenever I was there so I think they were just crying out for patients.
HTH.
Posted by creepy on March 1, 2019, at 16:03:33
In reply to Deep TMS versus Original TMS?, posted by SLS on October 30, 2018, at 16:17:22
Ive just started a round of TMS after 20 years of major depression and within 5 visits Im already getting my energy back. My body pain is less and Im able to exercise too.
If youre thinking about TMS I would do it.
I have no experience with the standard TMS, only the deep version with the brainsway machine.
The only downside I can see is the headaches and the pain at the back of your eye since they target the right DLPFC for depression.
Posted by SLS on March 1, 2019, at 21:08:03
In reply to Re: Deep TMS versus Original TMS?, posted by creepy on March 1, 2019, at 16:03:33
> Ive just started a round of TMS after 20 years of major depression and within 5 visits Im already getting my energy back. My body pain is less and Im able to exercise too.
> If youre thinking about TMS I would do it.
> I have no experience with the standard TMS, only the deep version with the brainsway machine.
> The only downside I can see is the headaches and the pain at the back of your eye since they target the right DLPFC for depression.Thank you.
I am very, very glad to see that you are being helped. I will keep deep TMS on my list of things to try.
I'm surprised to hear that they applied treatment to the right side. That's interesting. The older rTMS is applied to the left side. Do you know what frequency is being used?
I hope you continue to be improve.
- Scott
Posted by Hugh on April 1, 2019, at 14:05:20
In reply to Re: Deep TMS versus Original TMS?, posted by creepy on March 1, 2019, at 16:03:33
The doctor in this video argues that the relapse rate for patients who have finished TMS is much lower in his patients, who receive at least four weeks of TMS AFTER they've improved. How many TMS sessions are you supposed to receive?
https://mycloudtms.com/videos/maintenance-and-booster-sessions-in-tms/
Posted by Lamdage22 on April 6, 2019, at 6:03:18
In reply to Re: Deep TMS versus Original TMS? » creepy, posted by Hugh on April 1, 2019, at 14:05:20
Did anyone ever study the risks of this? Because ever since I did that I seem to require antipsychotics!
Posted by SLS on April 6, 2019, at 7:35:47
In reply to Re: Deep TMS versus Original TMS?, posted by Lamdage22 on April 6, 2019, at 6:03:18
> Did anyone ever study the risks of this? Because ever since I did that I seem to require antipsychotics!
From what I read awhile back, high frequency on the left side is good for depression. However some report that it can produce mania. Low frequency on the right side is good for depression. I read that it has fewer side effects than high frequency left side. Interestingly, high frequency on the right side reduces mania.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on April 7, 2019, at 10:21:26
In reply to Re: Deep TMS versus Original TMS?, posted by SLS on April 6, 2019, at 7:35:47
I wouldn't tamper with it
Posted by creepy on April 7, 2019, at 22:10:35
In reply to Re: Deep TMS versus Original TMS?, posted by Lamdage22 on April 7, 2019, at 10:21:26
My mistake it is the left side. The helmet is positioned over the right side and it activates the facial muscles on that side.
So far so good. I have my energy and mood back.
This doctor doesnt want to do a taper phase. I belive they want to do 35 treatments and then if I get a return of symptoms they do a few treatments until I remit again.
Posted by pedr on April 8, 2019, at 11:13:30
In reply to Re: Deep TMS versus Original TMS?, posted by creepy on April 7, 2019, at 22:10:35
> My mistake it is the left side. The helmet is positioned over the right side and it activates the facial muscles on that side.
> So far so good. I have my energy and mood back.
> This doctor doesnt want to do a taper phase. I belive they want to do 35 treatments and then if I get a return of symptoms they do a few treatments until I remit again.Wow, youre a lucky sod to get a response from it (whilst being very unlucky to have persistent depression). I did 42 sessions of dTMS and felt nothing.
This is the end of the thread.
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