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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JohnBoy2000 on June 17, 2018, at 15:44:32
Apparently via targeting neural inflammation that may be the cause; oxidative stress etc.
Has anybody tried or had success with this approach?
Posted by PeterMartin on June 17, 2018, at 16:40:06
In reply to Antibiotics - minocycline - to treat depression?, posted by JohnBoy2000 on June 17, 2018, at 15:44:32
I'm pretty sure SLS did but then developed a skin reaction. Hopefully he'll chime in.
Posted by linkadge on June 17, 2018, at 19:51:30
In reply to Re: Antibiotics - minocycline - to treat depression?, posted by PeterMartin on June 17, 2018, at 16:40:06
minocycline has other effects (independent of its antibiotic effect) which may be improving mood.
There is no evidence that downing handfuls of generic antibiotics helps depression. There is, however, evidence that excessive use of antibiotics can precipitate depression.
The effect of minocycline may not be generalizable to other drugs in its class.
Linkadge
Posted by Jeroen on June 18, 2018, at 15:54:59
In reply to Re: Antibiotics - minocycline - to treat depression?, posted by linkadge on June 17, 2018, at 19:51:30
i tried and it cured schizophrenia, depression, psychosis after 3 days ... powerfull but dangerous
it took away all my symptoms
im about to give this a last go and ask my doctor for doxycycline 100 mg twice daily
if you want to know minocycline 50 mg did the trick
it doesnt work for everyone and you can have a nasty insanity herx heimer reaction before you get sane :(
Posted by linkadge on June 18, 2018, at 17:08:47
In reply to Re: Antibiotics - minocycline - to treat depression?, posted by Jeroen on June 18, 2018, at 15:54:59
>i tried and it cured schizophrenia, depression,
>psychosis after 3 days ... powerfull but dangerous
>im about to give this a last go and ask my doctor
>for doxycycline 100 mg twice dailySorry to say, but if it really "cured your symptoms" then you woudn't need to ask your doctor for anything more.
Linkadge
Posted by Jeroen on June 18, 2018, at 17:17:01
In reply to Re: Antibiotics - minocycline - to treat depression?, posted by linkadge on June 18, 2018, at 17:08:47
i discovered it by accident
i took it for 3 full days and decided my depression got worse, then i quit taking the minocycline, the depression was severe, like a herx heimer reaction, but then since it was still in my blood it kicked in and i found out my schizophrenia was entirely gone, depression too, psychosis, paranoia, all was gone for 2 weeks and i taught i didnt need it to take it anymore i should have, now im resistant to minocycline...
linkadge am i resistant to doxycycyline too now or is it different, your wise word could save my life i never tried doxycycline.
Posted by PeterMartin on June 19, 2018, at 0:34:20
In reply to Re: Antibiotics - minocycline - to treat depression?, posted by Jeroen on June 18, 2018, at 17:17:01
Sorry it was one course of antibiotics raises depression risk:
Posted by JohnBoy2000 on June 24, 2018, at 13:35:39
In reply to Re: Antibiotics - minocycline - to treat depression?, posted by Jeroen on June 18, 2018, at 15:54:59
> i tried and it cured schizophrenia, depression, psychosis after 3 days ... powerfull but dangerous
>
> it took away all my symptoms
>
> im about to give this a last go and ask my doctor for doxycycline 100 mg twice daily
>
> if you want to know minocycline 50 mg did the trick
>
>
> it doesnt work for everyone and you can have a nasty insanity herx heimer reaction before you get sane :(I'm curious about this also; it corrected your symptoms - then you relapsed?
That's a dramatic statement - as to a three day course making such devastating symptoms well.
And to the other poster - what other properties of minocycline yield it's mood enhancing effect?
Posted by andrewb on June 28, 2018, at 10:47:28
In reply to Antibiotics - minocycline - to treat depression?, posted by JohnBoy2000 on June 17, 2018, at 15:44:32
Hello,
I don't think it is really as confusing as it seems as to why minocycline can work for some. Also it isn't a crazy mystery as to why antibiotics can either cause depression or relieve depression or just have no effect.
If you look at depression as an inflammatory disorder specifically, mediated by the inflammasone NLRP3, thing start making sense. For example, think of minocycline's antidepressant effect likely due NLRP3 inhibition rather than as an antibiotic effect (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5773028/). Note that it is speculated that an SSRI's effectiveness is also based on their abilities as NLRP3 inhibitors. But some drugs that inhibit NLRP3 inflammation in one situation will not in another. So possibly minocycline can be effective where an SSRI wasn't because of its different mechanism of NLRP3 inhibition.
So why do other antibiotics sometimes help with depression or cause it? NLRP3 is activated by many things, but in normal health
you want it to be activated when pathogenic bacteria or viruses enter the body so the immune system can be engaged to respond and eliminate them. SOME antibiotics eliminate good bacteria in the gut that protect the gut lining from letting in bad bacteria. Also these good bacteria put out butyrate that helps control excess NLRP3 inflammation. Without the good bacteria, bad bacteria can take over the gut and enter the body through the impaired gut wall causing ongoing inflammation and possible depression. But when an antibiotic helps with depression it might indicate that there was already a source in the body of bacterial infection that the antibiotic eliminated. An example of this may be from gum disease.
So if depression is caused by NLRP3, how is it controlled? It is controlled by controlling the causes of chronic NLRP3 inflammation and by taking certain helpful drugs or supplements or making dietary/lifestyle changes. These include:-use CoQ10 (100 mg, three times a day with food)
-use Curcumin, bioavailable (e.g. Curcubrain, 4 caps, twice a day on empty stomach)
-use melatonin, 2mg before bed
-consider exogenous ketones (hydroxybutyrate)
-consider butyrate supplement
-consider metformin for both NLRP3 and blood sugar control.
Lifestyle Changes:
-prevent allergens: ( e.g. change sheets and filters)
-keep a healthy gut (e.g. probiotic L rhamnosus , probiotics inulin and cold potato starch, also zinc supp.)
-keep healthy gums
-avoid stress
-control sleep apnea
-avoid saturated fats
-control blood sugar, avoid high sugar diet
-good oils: olive, coconut, and fish oils
- control obesity
-consider ketogenic diet (but also consider quality of fats used.)I hope this is helpful!!
Posted by JohnBoy2000 on July 6, 2018, at 8:32:11
In reply to NLRP3- Antibiotics (minocycline) -depression., posted by andrewb on June 28, 2018, at 10:47:28
> Hello,
> I don't think it is really as confusing as it seems as to why minocycline can work for some. Also it isn't a crazy mystery as to why antibiotics can either cause depression or relieve depression or just have no effect.
> If you look at depression as an inflammatory disorder specifically, mediated by the inflammasone NLRP3, thing start making sense. For example, think of minocycline's antidepressant effect likely due NLRP3 inhibition rather than as an antibiotic effect (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5773028/). Note that it is speculated that an SSRI's effectiveness is also based on their abilities as NLRP3 inhibitors. But some drugs that inhibit NLRP3 inflammation in one situation will not in another. So possibly minocycline can be effective where an SSRI wasn't because of its different mechanism of NLRP3 inhibition.
> So why do other antibiotics sometimes help with depression or cause it? NLRP3 is activated by many things, but in normal health
> you want it to be activated when pathogenic bacteria or viruses enter the body so the immune system can be engaged to respond and eliminate them. SOME antibiotics eliminate good bacteria in the gut that protect the gut lining from letting in bad bacteria. Also these good bacteria put out butyrate that helps control excess NLRP3 inflammation. Without the good bacteria, bad bacteria can take over the gut and enter the body through the impaired gut wall causing ongoing inflammation and possible depression. But when an antibiotic helps with depression it might indicate that there was already a source in the body of bacterial infection that the antibiotic eliminated. An example of this may be from gum disease.
> So if depression is caused by NLRP3, how is it controlled? It is controlled by controlling the causes of chronic NLRP3 inflammation and by taking certain helpful drugs or supplements or making dietary/lifestyle changes. These include:
>
> -use CoQ10 (100 mg, three times a day with food)
> -use Curcumin, bioavailable (e.g. Curcubrain, 4 caps, twice a day on empty stomach)
> -use melatonin, 2mg before bed
> -consider exogenous ketones (hydroxybutyrate)
> -consider butyrate supplement
> -consider metformin for both NLRP3 and blood sugar control.
> Lifestyle Changes:
> -prevent allergens: ( e.g. change sheets and filters)
> -keep a healthy gut (e.g. probiotic L rhamnosus , probiotics inulin and cold potato starch, also zinc supp.)
> -keep healthy gums
> -avoid stress
> -control sleep apnea
> -avoid saturated fats
> -control blood sugar, avoid high sugar diet
> -good oils: olive, coconut, and fish oils
> - control obesity
> -consider ketogenic diet (but also consider quality of fats used.)
>
> I hope this is helpful!!
>
>
That's fantastic information - thanks for posting.Did you happen across that via personal research - or a certain text book??
In terms of what you mentioned as to various SSRI's affect NLRP3 - would you have a link to a paper exploring that?
Posted by andrewb on July 8, 2018, at 18:46:26
In reply to Re: NLRP3- Antibiotics (minocycline) -depression., posted by JohnBoy2000 on July 6, 2018, at 8:32:11
That's fantastic information - thanks for posting.
Did you happen across that via personal research - or a certain text book??
In terms of what you mentioned as to various SSRI's affect NLRP3 - would you have a link to a paper exploring that?
======================================This is information is from my personal research, a LOT OF RESEARCH, for another health issue. So I can't turn you on to a reference book. However, ask me a question, I will try to answer.
A link for SSRI and NLRP3? Heres one: The ameliorative effect of fluoxetine on neuroinflammation induced by sleep deprivation. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29222907). Lots more if you keyword search pubmed.
Gotta say: inflammation is complex, life more so: so a solution may not be simple either, but I hope you keep trying.
This is the end of the thread.
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