![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Hugh on June 5, 2018, at 10:05:28
It's called Blue Dreams. Its author, Lauren Slater, has been taking psychotropic drugs for 35 years. One of the reasons she wrote the book is that, while plenty of details about these drugs are available, nobody has ever written a good narrative about the subject, with a beginning, middle, and end.
The first chapter is about thorazine, the second about lithium. Then she moves on to the early antidepressants, and then the SSRIs.
Slater believes that the most promising future treatments for depression are psychedelics. She writes a chapter about psilocybin, and another about MDMA (Ecstasy). She writes briefly about ayahausca. (Thousands of westerners have traveled to Peru to take it.)
Slater visits a therapist who uses psilocybin to treat depression. After hearing about the cocktail of drugs Slater is taking for her depression, the therapist declines to treat her, saying that Slater's drugs would block the effects of psilocybin.
Posted by SLS on June 5, 2018, at 13:16:14
In reply to New book about antidepressants, posted by Hugh on June 5, 2018, at 10:05:28
Has "Blue Dreams" changed the way you think about treating depression?
How would one go about getting and using psilocybin?
- Scott
Posted by joef on June 5, 2018, at 15:02:47
In reply to Re: New book about antidepressants, posted by SLS on June 5, 2018, at 13:16:14
is this book available at barnes and noble?
Posted by linkadge on June 5, 2018, at 16:22:33
In reply to Re: New book about antidepressants, posted by joef on June 5, 2018, at 15:02:47
There is evidence that serotonergic antidepressants can block the effect of LSD / psychedelics.
Linkadge
Posted by Hugh on June 5, 2018, at 17:59:32
In reply to Re: New book about antidepressants, posted by joef on June 5, 2018, at 15:02:47
> is this book available at barnes and noble?
I've seen it at Barnes & Noble. If they don't have it at your store, they'd be happy to order it for you. Or you can order it online and have it delivered at your store or at your home.
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/blue-dreams-lauren-slater/1124743022?ean=9780316370646#/
Posted by Hugh on June 5, 2018, at 18:27:25
In reply to Re: New book about antidepressants, posted by SLS on June 5, 2018, at 13:16:14
> Has "Blue Dreams" changed the way you think about treating depression?
"Blue Dreams" and Julie Holland's "Ecstasy: The Complete Guide" and Ayelet Waldman's "A Really Good Day" have changed my mind about treating depression.
I think MDMA sounds especially promising. Some therapists are using MDMA during marathon talk therapy sessions, saying that they can accomplish years' worth of talk therapy in a single afternoon.
> How would one go about getting and using psilocybin?Slater is vague about how she got to meet a therapist who uses psilocybin to treat depression. Slater was only given the therapist's first name and her address.
It's possible that the FDA will approve MDMA for PTSD by 2021. If this happens, it's possible that therapists will be able to prescribe it off-label to treat other psychiatric conditions.
Posted by sigismund on June 5, 2018, at 22:06:17
In reply to Re: New book about antidepressants » SLS, posted by Hugh on June 5, 2018, at 18:27:25
It's dose dependent.
I forget the dose used in a Really Good Day (15mcg?). That is not unlike a Ritalin. What was Albert Hoffmann's initial dose? Much of the experience was painful but at the end he felt like Adam on the first day of creation when he went into his garden.
I had some very positive experiences in the 70s, along with others. Psilocybe Cubensis grows where the weather is right and there are cows.
I would not take more than 2 of those. It is strong stuff and more is not necessarily better.
Posted by crabcakebenny on June 6, 2018, at 11:18:22
In reply to Re: New book about antidepressants » joef, posted by Hugh on June 5, 2018, at 17:59:32
Just wanted to let you guys know I've tried psilocybin numerous times but without a guide; evidence suggests that the psychotherapy component is important with psychedelics. I was pretty desperate since I've tried all classes of medication and have never achieved remission.
In my experience it sort of "thaws" the blockage of emotions and pleasure you experience with depression. If your depression is chronic like mine however, it's hard to get the effect to stick.
Posted by SLS on June 6, 2018, at 21:34:01
In reply to Re: New book about antidepressants, posted by crabcakebenny on June 6, 2018, at 11:18:22
> Just wanted to let you guys know I've tried psilocybin numerous times but without a guide; evidence suggests that the psychotherapy component is important with psychedelics. I was pretty desperate since I've tried all classes of medication and have never achieved remission.
>
> In my experience it sort of "thaws" the blockage of emotions and pleasure you experience with depression. If your depression is chronic like mine however, it's hard to get the effect to stick.Thanks for chiming in!
- Scott
Posted by Hugh on June 7, 2018, at 12:10:20
In reply to Re: New book about antidepressants, posted by sigismund on June 5, 2018, at 22:06:17
> I forget the dose used in a Really Good Day (15mcg?). That is not unlike a Ritalin.
Waldman took 10 mcg (about one-tenth of a tripping dose) every third day. She'd been on Ritalin and Adderall, and she found LSD to be far more effective at boosting her mood and motivation.
>What was Albert Hoffmann's initial dose?
The first time he knowingly dropped acid, it was 250 mcg.
I like this quote from a New Yorker profile of Waldman:
At some point in her microdosing, Waldman said, she decided to start telling her friends about the experiment. She received the most resistance from people of her own generation, in their forties and fifties--possibly, she thinks, because they grew up in a post-acid age and are "busy lying to their children about drugs." Younger people seemed open, and the older generation was exceedingly receptive, too. "Over and over again, I had the experience of, 'Oh, my God. I did LSD in the sixties. It totally changed my life,' " she said.
Complete article:
Posted by sigismund on June 8, 2018, at 22:58:20
In reply to Re: New book about antidepressants » sigismund, posted by Hugh on June 7, 2018, at 12:10:20
Perhaps I have read that before? She might have something on youtube. I do forget.
I found it useful, and as you say, not really like a Ritalin, more interesting and longer acting, nevertheless activating.
>She received the most resistance from people of her own generation, in their forties and fiftiespossibly, she thinks, because they grew up in a post-acid age and are busy lying to their children about drugs.
Well, exactly. But there is a real value in the truth. One is that your children will believe you when you warn them.
Wade Davis is good on this sort of thing generally.
Posted by Hugh on June 10, 2018, at 19:51:57
In reply to Re: New book about antidepressants » Hugh, posted by sigismund on June 8, 2018, at 22:58:20
> Perhaps I have read that before? She might have something on youtube. I do forget.
This is probably the video you're thinking of:
Posted by bleauberry on June 11, 2018, at 12:16:56
In reply to New book about antidepressants, posted by Hugh on June 5, 2018, at 10:05:28
I agree with the controlled use of psychedelic drugs for mood issues. The doses would have to be minuscule, just enough to twerk the chemistry, but not enough to get side effects. Cocaine is similar to Ritalin and I think Ritalin is the best, and most underused, antidepressant out there. PCP and LSD could rescue a person from suicide at the right controlled dose.
The greatest cause of death is not heart attacks or car crashes. It is death from overdose. My opinion is that the psychiatric medical community plays a role in that by not making good diagnosis and not providing appropriate treatments. For example, hundreds of thousands and probably millions of Lyme patients are missed and shipped off to the psychiatrist.
So maybe some new psychedelic meds at controlled doses might actually be more helpful than reuptake inhibitors.
> It's called Blue Dreams. Its author, Lauren Slater, has been taking psychotropic drugs for 35 years. One of the reasons she wrote the book is that, while plenty of details about these drugs are available, nobody has ever written a good narrative about the subject, with a beginning, middle, and end.
>
> The first chapter is about thorazine, the second about lithium. Then she moves on to the early antidepressants, and then the SSRIs.
>
> Slater believes that the most promising future treatments for depression are psychedelics. She writes a chapter about psilocybin, and another about MDMA (Ecstasy). She writes briefly about ayahausca. (Thousands of westerners have traveled to Peru to take it.)
>
> Slater visits a therapist who uses psilocybin to treat depression. After hearing about the cocktail of drugs Slater is taking for her depression, the therapist declines to treat her, saying that Slater's drugs would block the effects of psilocybin.
>
>
Posted by ed_uk2010 on June 11, 2018, at 17:16:07
In reply to Re: New book about antidepressants, posted by bleauberry on June 11, 2018, at 12:16:56
>The greatest cause of death is not heart attacks or car crashes. It is death from overdose.
The most common causes of death in most Western countries are ischaemic heart disease and cancers.
Overdose is one of the most common forms of accidental death, and is also one of the more common forms of suicide.... but it's certainly not the most frequent cause of death.
The concept of using psychedelics for mood disorders is interesting. There will always be 'side effects' of course.
Posted by Hugh on June 12, 2018, at 10:54:14
In reply to New book about antidepressants, posted by Hugh on June 5, 2018, at 10:05:28
In his current bestseller, How to Change Your Mind, author Michael Pollan discusses how his recent experiments with LSD, psilocybin, and DMT have changed his life for the better. (He wanted to try MDMA, but his cardiologist advised against it, since Pollan had just been diagnosed with atrial fibrillation.)
"The theme of reconnection comes up over and over again in these experiences and in the research. People struggling with addiction and depression are disconnected from the world and from other people. They fall into these loops of rumination and get stuck, and after a while, reality is blocked out and theyre trapped. These drugs seem to lower our defenses and foster a sense of connection with others and with nature."
Complete interview:
Posted by sigismund on June 15, 2018, at 21:48:09
In reply to Re: New book about antidepressants, posted by Hugh on June 12, 2018, at 10:54:14
He was interviewed here on Radio National, probably here for the Sydney Writers Festival.
Really good.
It felt to me a bit like walking a tightrope. Fear was always there at some point, and best accepted. Then it would pass. Some kind of honest relation of public self to feelings reduced pain. And there was endless laughter, or so it felt. Best not to be too ambitious with the dose. DMT seemed too much too soon and then it was gone. I'm really not up to losing myself, though I have.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.