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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Franz on May 9, 2018, at 10:18:58
I am trying to switch from low dose alprazolam to klonopin but after a few days I feel depressed. I read clonazepam affects 5ht. Does this mean I have a serotonin problem? ssri do not help much. Thanks
Posted by Christ_empowered on May 9, 2018, at 10:50:45
In reply to Clonazepam depressing. Do I have 5ht problem?, posted by Franz on May 9, 2018, at 10:18:58
maybe klonopin just isn't the tranquilizer for you. ativan or valium, perhaps?
Posted by linkadge on May 9, 2018, at 14:17:34
In reply to Re: Clonazepam depressing. Do I have 5ht problem?, posted by Christ_empowered on May 9, 2018, at 10:50:45
Alprazolam is known to have antidepressant effects. Clonazepam is longer acting, but can have more of a depressant effect.
What was the reason for switching?
If it is half life, can you try Xanax-XR?
Linkadge
Posted by rjlockhart37 on May 9, 2018, at 17:20:51
In reply to Clonazepam depressing. Do I have 5ht problem?, posted by Franz on May 9, 2018, at 10:18:58
your exactly correct, clonazepam is major known to cause depression, i've been on it, its great during a anxiety attack or severe insomnia, but yes clonzepam does reduce serotonin, i don't have the sources but i've read it, i've been on it, it makes depressed when take it all tne time
ask your doctor about switching to lorazepam
Posted by Franz on May 13, 2018, at 15:46:18
In reply to Re: Clonazepam depressing. Do I have 5ht problem?, posted by linkadge on May 9, 2018, at 14:17:34
> Alprazolam is known to have antidepressant effects. Clonazepam is longer acting, but can have more of a depressant effect.
>
> What was the reason for switching?
>
> If it is half life, can you try Xanax-XR?
>
> LinkadgeYes half life and better for sleep. Dr does not believe Xanax-XR works better than regular it seems
>
Posted by bleauberry on May 14, 2018, at 11:09:56
In reply to Clonazepam depressing. Do I have 5ht problem?, posted by Franz on May 9, 2018, at 10:18:58
Well, I differ from most of the psychiatric community on the monoamine theory of depression. The part of it that I disagree with the most is that the serotonin molecule is the big player. I disagree with that.
In my opinion the big players are NE and DA, not 5HT, and that reuptake inhibition is a lousy method of attempting to increase the works of NE and DA.
I guess I'm saying if we put more experimenting into DA strategies and NE strategies we would get better results than if we experiment with primarily 5ht strategies. imo
Any of the benzo meds can cause depression and any of the 5ht meds can cause depression and worsen existing depression. They put a suicide warning on the label for a reason. People do actually get a lot worse.
I think no matter what you do, you want to somehow incorporate NE and DA into your thinking.
For example, in a profound example, I've been on every type of anti-anxiety med out there - SSRI, Benzo, antipsychotic, mood stabilizer - and almost every med within each of those categories. Of all of them, can you take a guess as to which one was the best at anti-anxiety, at peace, at calm and focused?
It was Ritalin. Let that sink in.
> I am trying to switch from low dose alprazolam to klonopin but after a few days I feel depressed. I read clonazepam affects 5ht. Does this mean I have a serotonin problem? ssri do not help much. Thanks
Posted by Franz on May 14, 2018, at 11:17:09
In reply to Re: Clonazepam depressing. Do I have 5ht problem?, posted by bleauberry on May 14, 2018, at 11:09:56
Posted by Franz on May 14, 2018, at 19:53:31
In reply to Re: Clonazepam depressing. Do I have 5ht problem?, posted by bleauberry on May 14, 2018, at 11:09:56
> Well, I differ from most of the psychiatric community on the monoamine theory of depression. The part of it that I disagree with the most is that the serotonin molecule is the big player. I disagree with that.
>
> In my opinion the big players are NE and DA, not 5HT, and that reuptake inhibition is a lousy method of attempting to increase the works of NE and DA.
>
> I guess I'm saying if we put more experimenting into DA strategies and NE strategies we would get better results than if we experiment with primarily 5ht strategies. imo
>
> Any of the benzo meds can cause depression and any of the 5ht meds can cause depression and worsen existing depression. They put a suicide warning on the label for a reason. People do actually get a lot worse.
>
> I think no matter what you do, you want to somehow incorporate NE and DA into your thinking.
>
> For example, in a profound example, I've been on every type of anti-anxiety med out there - SSRI, Benzo, antipsychotic, mood stabilizer - and almost every med within each of those categories. Of all of them, can you take a guess as to which one was the best at anti-anxiety, at peace, at calm and focused?
>
> It was Ritalin. Let that sink in.
>
> > I am trying to switch from low dose alprazolam to klonopin but after a few days I feel depressed. I read clonazepam affects 5ht. Does this mean I have a serotonin problem? ssri do not help much. Thanks
>Not the first time I read stimulants help with anxiety.
I have the slow COMT enzyme variant, not sure how well would work for me.
Posted by Christ_empowered on May 18, 2018, at 9:21:31
In reply to Re: Clonazepam depressing. Do I have 5ht problem? » bleauberry, posted by Franz on May 14, 2018, at 19:53:31
it depends on your problems, your history, etc., but...even these days...some shrinks are OK with putting people on stimulants+sedatives, together. personally...
it is true that any benzodiazepine can cause depression, over the long haul, but I do think Klonopin is particularly terrible in that regard. I have an acquaintance who continues to do well on seroquel and adderall. I did surprisingly well on ritalin+abilify+klonopin, at least...in the short term.
one of the great things about the stimulants is that if they are going to be helpful, you'll probably know, right away. back in the day, shrinks would sometimes do a "test dose"--give a patient an upper or a goof ball or whatever, wait a while--to see what developed. i think problems w/ tolerance and dosage escalation and the psych issues---agitation, euphoria, mood swings, etc.--are worse with the amphetamines than with ritalin or focalin, but I imagine that also depends on the individual.
hope this helps. good luck.
Posted by Franz on May 23, 2018, at 4:55:23
In reply to Re: Clonazepam depressing. Do I have 5ht problem?, posted by Christ_empowered on May 18, 2018, at 9:21:31
Posted by Franz on May 23, 2018, at 5:03:22
In reply to Re: Clonazepam depressing. Do I have 5ht problem?, posted by Christ_empowered on May 18, 2018, at 9:21:31
> it depends on your problems, your history, etc., but...even these days...some shrinks are OK with putting people on stimulants+sedatives, together. personally...
>
> it is true that any benzodiazepine can cause depression, over the long haul, but I do think Klonopin is particularly terrible in that regard. I have an acquaintance who continues to do well on seroquel and adderall. I did surprisingly well on ritalin+abilify+klonopin, at least...in the short term.
>
> one of the great things about the stimulants is that if they are going to be helpful, you'll probably know, right away. back in the day, shrinks would sometimes do a "test dose"--give a patient an upper or a goof ball or whatever, wait a while--to see what developed. i think problems w/ tolerance and dosage escalation and the psych issues---agitation, euphoria, mood swings, etc.--are worse with the amphetamines than with ritalin or focalin, but I imagine that also depends on the individual.
>
> hope this helps. good luck.
Would you consider nicotine a stimulant proper for this combination?
Posted by Christ_empowered on May 24, 2018, at 18:40:16
In reply to Re: Clonazepam depressing. Do I have 5ht problem?, posted by Franz on May 23, 2018, at 5:03:22
i never thought of that, but....maybe? Nicotine does offer a subtle mood lift for some people.
i do think that if you need ongoing benzodiazepine treatment, it might be a good idea to see about getting the shrink to prescribe something...besides Klonopin. Seriously. For a while there, Klonopin was the -last- resort benzodiazepine for most psych people, because of the adverse effects. My how times have changed...
of course, all the Mother's Little Helpers can cause or exacerbate depression. comes with the territory, it seems. xanax, xanax xr is something of an exception...high(ish) doses were (are?) used in some forms of depression, but that has definite drawbacks, over time.
sorry about your situation. i hope things get better for you.
This is the end of the thread.
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