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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on June 13, 2008, at 2:28:48
In reply to Re: please be fair, posted by deplinaire on June 11, 2008, at 7:51:20
>> the other person was ignorant, presumptious, and in fact misleading the thread.
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down. There are civility rules at Psycho-Babble, and the most basic is that
posters may not engage in name-calling or negatively characterizing other posters or their posts. It's okay to talk about how *you* personally feel, but not to describe *their* words or actions negatively. Just to clarify, that is why Dr. Bob asked henryo to be civil, not to correct him or to comment in any way about the deplin discussion.Further, as Dr. Bob reminded henryo, if you'd like us to review a post for civility, please use the "Notify Administrators" button that follows it, instead of pointing out your problem with it publicly. Thanks, and I hope that helps explain the guidelines here.
If you have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or you are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
-- 10derHeart, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by Cobra on July 10, 2008, at 18:20:23
In reply to DEPLIN L-methylfolate, posted by henryo on January 2, 2008, at 2:21:21
I am currently writing an article on Deplin and l-methylfolate for a clinician journal. I'd just like to share some information that I've put together during my research for the article and hope to help some understanding of how it helps and who should be taking L-methylfolate.
My research is on the MTHFR gene and specifically how polymorphism of this gene leads to a myriad of health complications.
The quick and dirty run down is that about 50% of US caucasians have a polymorohphism (bad copy) of this gene leading to the production of an misformed enzyme. If you want more background google MTHFR and you'll find plenty of info. This enzyme converts folate from one confirmation to another which is then used in a proccess to turn the amino acid homocysteine to another amino acid, methionine.
What does this mean for your brain? Well, essentially you need folate to be in the right form and if you are one of the unlucky 50% then your ability to do so is reduced. There are various forms of the polymorphism that result in varying reductions in enzyme activity.
The MTHFR polymorphisms have been linked in studies to the incidence of depression, schizophrenia, and bipolar disorder. The problem for these patients is that a simple increase in dietary or supplemental folate cannot increase "bioavailability" of methylfolate in the brain because only l-methylfolate can cross the blood-brain barrier.
In fact, people with a MTHFR polymorhism who take folic acid supplements decrease the ability for l-methylfolate to make it into the brain because regular folic acid fits into the receptors but does not pass through.
Depressed patients with low red blood cell folate are 6x more liekly not to respond to anti-depressant therapy and less likely to achieve remission. However, for the 50% of people who have the polymorphism the only way increase "bioavailable" folate is to take l-methylfolate.
Deplin, Metanx, and Cerafolin NAC are the three existing options in the US.
Hope this helps.
Posted by Phillipa on July 10, 2008, at 20:40:41
In reply to Re: DEPLIN L-methylfolate, posted by Cobra on July 10, 2008, at 18:20:23
Thanks for the info a question since my family doesn't have a history of early cardiovascular disease or miscarriage does that mean I don't need the Deplin or do? Thanks Phillipa but have never had a remission of anxiety they say is depression.
Posted by ihatedrugs on July 10, 2008, at 23:07:37
In reply to DEPLIN L-methylfolate, posted by henryo on January 2, 2008, at 2:21:21
I have been taking it for a couple weeks and have definitely noticed a difference. More energy sometimes a little anxiety but could be because I'm tapering off Cymbalta.
So far I think it's worth the expense.
Posted by Cobra on July 11, 2008, at 11:31:04
In reply to Re: DEPLIN L-methylfolate » Cobra, posted by Phillipa on July 10, 2008, at 20:40:41
No history of CVD or miscarriage does not mean you for sure don't have a MTHFR polymorphism. Depending on the specific polymorphism your parents may each be heterozygous (a milder polymorphism resulting in only slightly decreased enzyme function) and could each have given you the "bad" copy making you homozygous for the polymorphism and therefore more susceptible to the myriad of complications.
The only way to know for sure is to have a genetic test done. Many times the cheek scrape test is covered by insurance, and also can include other genes.
My personal feeling is that since 50% of people are going to have a version of the polymorphism and since the consequences are devastating in terms of both physical and mental health that taking some sort of l-methylfolate supplement is just a safe bet. Your body will use it, even if you live a 100% healthy lifestyle and do not have the polymorphism. But that is just my personal opinion and I am not a doctor.
Deplin is only FDA approved for enhancing the efficacy of anti-depressants and managing plasma folate, but in terms of those patients with MTHFR polymorphism it can do much more.
Hopefully in the near future genetic screening will become a part of all primary care physicians' routine patient care. The cost continues to drop, and for a huge percentage of the population it would mean a vast improvement in the quality of care.
So it's really up to you for the Deplin- it is extremely likely that it will help you. And from all the studies I've read there is really no drawback other than the cost of the supplement.
I think a good and cost effective option is to take Metanx as it also contains B vitamins. Also, I think everyone should take NAC, which is readily available at health food stores. Pamlabs makes cerefolin NAC which is the methylfolate, b vitamins and NAC, but I believe it is considerable more expensive than getting metanx and NAC separately.
If you have any more questions, or I wasn't clear about something just let me know.
Posted by Phillipa on July 11, 2008, at 19:31:57
In reply to Re: DEPLIN L-methylfolate, posted by Cobra on July 11, 2008, at 11:31:04
Cobra thanks for answering my questions. I had started taking Deplin no side effects as the website says they are like a sugar pill in terms of side effects. Day three felt a bit better but then feeling went away and I stopped the Deplin. I think I have Two weeks of it left So morning or night? And will an out of wack hasimotos thyroiditis make any difference in the mechanisms of the Med? Thanks again Phillipa
Posted by yxibow on July 13, 2008, at 1:02:24
In reply to Re: DEPLIN L-methylfolate, posted by Cobra on July 11, 2008, at 11:31:04
> No history of CVD or miscarriage does not mean you for sure don't have a MTHFR polymorphism. Depending on the specific polymorphism your parents may each be heterozygous (a milder polymorphism resulting in only slightly decreased enzyme function) and could each have given you the "bad" copy making you homozygous for the polymorphism and therefore more susceptible to the myriad of complications.
>
> The only way to know for sure is to have a genetic test done. Many times the cheek scrape test is covered by insurance, and also can include other genes.
>
> My personal feeling is that since 50% of people are going to have a version of the polymorphism and since the consequences are devastating in terms of both physical and mental health that taking some sort of l-methylfolate supplement is just a safe bet. Your body will use it, even if you live a 100% healthy lifestyle and do not have the polymorphism. But that is just my personalIt isn't used widely in tests since a number of people, unknown, will have some, version of the polymorphism, however not much to affect any human function.
> Deplin is only FDA approved for enhancing the efficacy of anti-depressants and managing plasma folate, but in terms of those patients with MTHFR polymorphism it can do much more.
>
> Hopefully in the near future genetic screening will become a part of all primary care physicians' routine patient care. The cost continues to drop, and for a huge percentage of the population it would mean a vast improvement in the quality of care.
>
> So it's really up to you for the Deplin- it is extremely likely that it will help you. And from all the studies I've read there is really no drawback other than the cost of the supplement.
Unfortunately it is fairly likely that it -wont- help someone. But you could be one of the lucky crowd that it does. Its more of a winning a lottery than actually being a large number. But for those who do benefit, it apparently definitely does.
And there are drawbacks, anxiety related -- now, I don't know if I tried it for several months whether it would be of help, but it exacerbated my anxiety, and in my case my anxiety, being somatoform, is expressed in bodily manners.
My blood pressure would skyrocket in pangs especially when I was getting to get out the door and behind the wheel of my car. This was only after two weeks, and two weeks without it, it went away. I had to use propranolol at various points as I was running a good 150-160/90.
Posted by Phillipa on July 13, 2008, at 20:00:23
In reply to Re: DEPLIN L-methylfolate » Cobra, posted by yxibow on July 13, 2008, at 1:02:24
Jay I took it for two weeks and no anxiety at all. But then we are all wired differently. One day three had a burst of energy not anxiety. Just felt good for once. Love Phillipa
Posted by LynneDa on July 14, 2008, at 9:27:13
In reply to Re: DEPLIN L-methylfolate, posted by Cobra on July 10, 2008, at 18:20:23
I took Deplin for a short time, too short to tell if it helped I guess. But, my p=doc just gave me a scrip for Cerefolin. What do you think/know about that? He said it's very new.
Thanks!
~ LynneI am currently writing an article on Deplin and l-methylfolate for a clinician journal. I'd just like to share some information that I've put together during my research for the article and hope to help some understanding of how it helps and who should be taking L-methylfolate.
>
> My research is on the MTHFR gene and specifically how polymorphism of this gene leads to a myriad of health complications.
>
> The quick and dirty run down is that about 50% of US caucasians have a polymorohphism (bad copy) of this gene leading to the production of an misformed enzyme. If you want more background google MTHFR and you'll find plenty of info. This enzyme converts folate from one confirmation to another which is then used in a proccess to turn the amino acid homocysteine to another amino acid, methionine.
>
> What does this mean for your brain? Well, essentially you need folate to be in the right form and if you are one of the unlucky 50% then your ability to do so is reduced. There are various forms of the polymorphism that result in varying reductions in enzyme activity.
>
> The MTHFR polymorphisms have been linked in studies to the incidence of depression, schizophrenia, and bipolar disorder. The problem for these patients is that a simple increase in dietary or supplemental folate cannot increase "bioavailability" of methylfolate in the brain because only l-methylfolate can cross the blood-brain barrier.
>
> In fact, people with a MTHFR polymorhism who take folic acid supplements decrease the ability for l-methylfolate to make it into the brain because regular folic acid fits into the receptors but does not pass through.
>
> Depressed patients with low red blood cell folate are 6x more liekly not to respond to anti-depressant therapy and less likely to achieve remission. However, for the 50% of people who have the polymorphism the only way increase "bioavailable" folate is to take l-methylfolate.
>
> Deplin, Metanx, and Cerafolin NAC are the three existing options in the US.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
Posted by Phillipa on July 14, 2008, at 19:24:29
In reply to Re: Cerefolin . . . . DEPLIN L-methylfolate, posted by LynneDa on July 14, 2008, at 9:27:13
Same here took Deplin two weeks. My pdoc also gave me one pill of this med here is the official website. Pdocs remarks to me were it couldn't harm someone. Phillipa
Cerefolin®NAC Product Information : Pamlab L.L.C.
Posted by Cecilia on July 16, 2008, at 5:50:11
In reply to Re: DEPLIN L-methylfolate, posted by Cobra on July 11, 2008, at 11:31:04
> No history of CVD or miscarriage does not mean you for sure don't have a MTHFR polymorphism. Depending on the specific polymorphism your parents may each be heterozygous (a milder polymorphism resulting in only slightly decreased enzyme function) and could each have given you the "bad" copy making you homozygous for the polymorphism and therefore more susceptible to the myriad of complications.
>
> The only way to know for sure is to have a genetic test done. Many times the cheek scrape test is covered by insurance, and also can include other genes.
>
> My personal feeling is that since 50% of people are going to have a version of the polymorphism and since the consequences are devastating in terms of both physical and mental health that taking some sort of l-methylfolate supplement is just a safe bet. Your body will use it, even if you live a 100% healthy lifestyle and do not have the polymorphism. But that is just my personal opinion and I am not a doctor.
>
> Deplin is only FDA approved for enhancing the efficacy of anti-depressants and managing plasma folate, but in terms of those patients with MTHFR polymorphism it can do much more.
>
> Hopefully in the near future genetic screening will become a part of all primary care physicians' routine patient care. The cost continues to drop, and for a huge percentage of the population it would mean a vast improvement in the quality of care.
>
> So it's really up to you for the Deplin- it is extremely likely that it will help you. And from all the studies I've read there is really no drawback other than the cost of the supplement.
>
> I think a good and cost effective option is to take Metanx as it also contains B vitamins. Also, I think everyone should take NAC, which is readily available at health food stores. Pamlabs makes cerefolin NAC which is the methylfolate, b vitamins and NAC, but I believe it is considerable more expensive than getting metanx and NAC separately.
>
> If you have any more questions, or I wasn't clear about something just let me know.What is the difference betewen Deplin, Metanx and Cerefolin? I know Deplin is approved for depression, and when I looked up Metanx it talked about use for peripheral neuropathy, which I also have. Are they similar enough that either would have a chance of working for both? Cecilia
Posted by Phillipa on July 16, 2008, at 20:04:14
In reply to Re: DEPLIN L-methylfolate » Cobra, posted by Cecilia on July 16, 2008, at 5:50:11
Good question. I think I googled it also. Phillipa
Posted by SLS on July 16, 2008, at 22:23:20
In reply to Re: DEPLIN L-methylfolate » Cobra, posted by Cecilia on July 16, 2008, at 5:50:11
I would go with the Deplin first. I found that methylcobalamin (B12) worked against me. Cerefolin and Metanx both contain this substance. Deplin contains more of the active ingredient, L-methylfolate, and does not mix in other ingredients. Keep it simple for now.
Deplin, when used as an adjunct to standard antidepressants, can take as long as 2-3 months to show results. However, you may experience a brief "blip" improvement during the first week, lasting for a day or two. This might be a good sign, however there is still too little clinical experience with this drug / medical food to know its subtleties.
- Scott
Posted by chiron on July 21, 2008, at 22:36:27
In reply to Re: DEPLIN L-methylfolate, posted by SLS on July 16, 2008, at 22:23:20
> Deplin, when used as an adjunct to standard antidepressants, can take as long as 2-3 months to show results. >
I just started Deplin a few days ago (asked for it from my dr. who doesn't have any idea what to do for me, after reading about it on this board)
I was hoping for a quick response from other stories I've read. 2-3 months? Does anyone have stories of how long it took to help?
I also thought it would be good for me because I think Lamictal & the pill can cause folate to drop.
Posted by henryo on November 16, 2008, at 4:23:16
In reply to DEPLIN L-methylfolate, posted by henryo on January 2, 2008, at 2:21:21
I agree mostly with what I said in my first post but I guess I gave the impression that the war is over. Its not. Deplin is still great but life is life. I am a depressive. So I have days and weeks that suck but I know from experience that without Lamictal and Deplin I would have evil emotional pain. I am deeply grateful that these compounds are available to me.
Posted by Phillipa on November 16, 2008, at 19:17:17
In reply to Re: DEPLIN L-methylfolate, posted by henryo on November 16, 2008, at 4:23:16
Thanks Henyro really appreciate the post. Love Phillipa
Posted by henryo on November 17, 2008, at 2:53:45
In reply to Re: DEPLIN L-methylfolate » henryo, posted by Phillipa on November 16, 2008, at 19:17:17
No, thank you Phillipa. Your dedication is staggering. I have not seen you miss an opportunity to share your unique brand of wisdom and support. I think most us are amazed to see how you have some comment to make to about every signal topic on this discussion board. There does not seem to be a thread upon which you do not have something to say. Even when you have no direct experience or any knowledge about the issues mentioned, you manage to share your marvelous insights and opinions. I stand in awe.
Posted by Phillipa on November 17, 2008, at 19:46:31
In reply to Phillipa, thank you., posted by henryo on November 17, 2008, at 2:53:45
What a lovely compliment must be my nursing experience wanting to learn and help others and let them know someone has heard them. And since I was on both the meds you are on was looking at combo of both since ad's do nothing for me only benzos???? Love Phillipa ps so glad the combo is working so well for you.
Posted by henryo on April 30, 2011, at 4:22:07
In reply to Re: DEPLIN L-methylfolate/henryo » brooke484, posted by Phillipa on January 10, 2008, at 23:08:28
It has been a few years since I started the above thread and I just want to say I am very happy with Deplin. I tell people about it all the time. I inject B-12 every month just to make sure I don't have that masked anemia happening. I am still doing the Lamictal 100mg. Things are OK. I'm not in the kind of pain I was in before I started Lamictal. I'm feeling alright most of the time. Which compared to where was when I first started posting here over ten years ago and long before that, is truly good. As in the opposite of evil. Because there were times in the past when the pain of depression was just crushing. God I tried a hell of a lot of different meds over the years.
Posted by Phillipa on April 30, 2011, at 20:24:31
In reply to Re: DEPLIN L-methylfolate, posted by henryo on April 30, 2011, at 4:22:07
10 years? Had no idea. You must have that mutated or absent gene if only they had known about it then. So glad you are doing so well. Phillipa
Posted by Henryo on May 2, 2011, at 2:09:30
In reply to Re: DEPLIN L-methylfolate » henryo, posted by Phillipa on April 30, 2011, at 20:24:31
Phillipa I have been a grump toward you and I apologize.
Thank you for the kind words. I have been fortunate with meds. But I also persevered, trying whatever I could till I found something that worked. It took a long time. I've found some posts of mine going back to '03 and I know I was posting here earlier than that under a variant of this name. I was/have been wrestling with depression for years. As near as I can recon I began this whole AD journey with Prozac around 1989. It was several years later that I came across psycho-babble. That must have been the late 90's. One can glean some very good information from this site if you consider the sources and mesh it together with some other researching too.
Posted by Phillipa on May 2, 2011, at 19:53:36
In reply to Deplin, posted by Henryo on May 2, 2011, at 2:09:30
Henyro no need to apologize as if different names wouldn't remember. Just glad you are better!!!! Phillipa
Posted by babbo on August 5, 2011, at 23:18:52
In reply to DEPLIN L-methylfolate, posted by henryo on January 2, 2008, at 2:21:21
I've tried samples of Deplin that my psych. gave me. Since the Rx is too expensive for me I found an over the counter L-methylfolate made/distributed by a supplement company. Each capsule has only 1000 mcgs so I have to take 7 of them to get close to the 7.5 mg. of Deplin. Does anyone know whether the OTC variety is equivalent to the Rx Deplin? The 1000 mcg. capsule is quite a bit larger in size than the 1/2 of the 15mg. Deplin tablet. Deplin seemed to activate the Zoloft that I'd been taking for three months but I'm not sure whether it was the Deplin or just that the Zoloft kicked in.
Posted by henryo on January 22, 2014, at 3:19:55
In reply to DEPLIN L-methylfolate, posted by henryo on January 2, 2008, at 2:21:21
Still taking Deplin 7.5 Still pleased with it.
Posted by herpills on January 27, 2014, at 22:35:42
In reply to Re: DEPLIN L-methylfolate, posted by henryo on January 22, 2014, at 3:19:55
Hi- Can I ask what you take with the Deplin? I'm assuming you are treating depression? herpills
This is the end of the thread.
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